LIRR: Step up fare

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Off peak 10-trips have a discount. Peak 10-trips don't.

Well they want people to ride off-peak here in Riverdale hence why we got 30 minute frequencies now during off-peak but they should want people to ride in general.  The price for peak continues to go up so eventually more and more people will try to ride off-peak anyway naturally.

 

Perhaps MTA is discouraging people to take the train during peak times.  There are complaints how full the peak trains are & how MTA is maxed out of trains coming into Penn

 

Personally I think mta should give a small discount for peak 10 trip and go back to the 1 full year of the ticket being valid.

Perhaps? They most certainly are discouraging them from riding during peak.  In fact if they gave a discount I would probably almost for sure be riding at least 3 - 4 times a week EVERY week, as opposed to doing that sometimes and maybe even during other times as well that weren't peak since I find that the more I use MetroNorth, the more likely I get "hooked" if you will and lazy.  That's a nice chunk of change that they're losing.  But then when I compare it to the express bus, I have a unlimited pass which I use the heck out of which gets cheaper the more I take the express bus which can be sometimes 4 times a day or more, plus I'm guaranteed a seat, which I usually rarely get during peak times on MetroNorth, which makes me say to myself $8.25 to stand vs paying nothing to sit and relax in comfort... I think they should come up with an unlimited pass besides the monthly which could really entice people on the fence like myself to use it more.  I'd be more inclined to stand paying less but at $8.25 I think it's a crime to pay that and have to be uncomfortable.

[sirtiger]

judging from what people wrote in other forums (non transit forum), they seem to be really upset with the delays & cost.  The delays at the east side tunnels & Jamaica are pretty running at maximum now at peak.  All it takes is one sneeze and the whole system goes into disarray.  

 

Some nyc residents would love to have city ticket prices during weekdays off peak.  I am sure the same theory that the LIRR would be overloaded with mostly queens/BK riders.  MTA can easily boost revenue 12 different ways but it would be potentially disastrous

[Via Garibaldi 8]

judging from what people wrote in other forums (non transit forum), they seem to be really upset with the delays & cost.  The delays at the east side tunnels & Jamaica are pretty running at maximum now at peak.  All it takes is one sneeze and the whole system goes into disarray.  

 

Some nyc residents would love to have city ticket prices during weekdays off peak.  I am sure the same theory that the LIRR would be overloaded with mostly queens/BK riders.  MTA can easily boost revenue 12 different ways but it would be potentially disastrous

Well I'm not suggesting that they go and give away the service, but I can't think of too many services where you buy in bulk and get no discount.  That's just egregious.  I don't want it so low that all of the riff-raff starts riding, but they can still keep the environment civilized and upscale and give some discounts too for the 10 pack peak tickets, or come up with a discounted weekly pass instead of just offering a monthly pass.  Something like $60.00 a week seems reasonable to me for a weekly pass in some cases.  That would be in line with the express bus and I would probably go for it too and have both of them.

[lirr42]

Well I'm not suggesting that they go and give away the service, but I can't think of too many services where you buy in bulk and get no discount.  That's just egregious.  I don't want it so low that all of the riff-raff starts riding, but they can still keep the environment civilized and upscale and give some discounts too for the 10 pack peak tickets, or come up with a discounted weekly pass instead of just offering a monthly pass.  Something like $60.00 a week seems reasonable to me for a weekly pass in some cases.  That would be in line with the express bus and I would probably go for it too and have both of them.

 

Peak 10-trip tickets are sold as convenience tickets only at the price of 10 one-way fares.  They only exist for those who take the train semi-regularly and don't want to purchase one-ways every time.

 

And you seem to have forgotten that weekly tickets on the LIRR and MNCR do exist.  A weekly (valid Saturday through the next Friday) on MNCR from Zone 2 (the Bronx Stations) to Grand Central is $61.  Perhaps you might want to consult the current fare table.

judging from what people wrote in other forums (non transit forum), they seem to be really upset with the delays & cost.  The delays at the east side tunnels & Jamaica are pretty running at maximum now at peak.  All it takes is one sneeze and the whole system goes into disarray.  

 

It's unfortunate that that has become the case, but with infrastructure so maxed out and no money from improvements coming from anywhere fares are only going to get higher and delays are only going to get worse for the foreseeable future.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Peak 10-trip tickets are sold as convenience tickets only at the price of 10 one-way fares.  They only exist for those who take the train semi-regularly and don't want to purchase one-ways every time.

 

And you seem to have forgotten that weekly tickets on the LIRR and MNCR do exist.  A weekly (valid Saturday through the next Friday) on MNCR from Zone 2 (the Bronx Stations) to Grand Central is $61.  Perhaps you might want to consult the current fare table before posting.

Well do they sell these weekly passes at the kiosks? I don't recall seeing them and that's why I've previously bought a 10 pack or it could've been that the cost still doesn't work in my case.  Even so I still think the 10 pack should be discounted slightly.  Even $70.00 would be a deal as opposed to $82.00.

 

Part of the problem is some of these things aren't well advertised.  I found out about the express bus plus card through a colleague.  Before that I was paying per ride and I said one day to her in the office, I wish they had an unlimited pass.  Then she told me to look further at the kiosk and only then did I notice it. lol Before then I had heard of a monthly that was discontinued.  I will consider the $61.00 pass in the future depending on my schedule, but I would certainly buy a 10 pack peak more often if that was discounted.  The thing is I'm not using MetroNorth on the weekends because there is no Rail Link bus to the Riverdale stations, so it would probably be 3-4 days at the most and only one way, which still doesn't pay to be honest.  Buying a ten pack would still be more cost effective.  Paying $61.00 and using MetroNorth 3 - 4 times at the most a week would be $15.25 - 20.33 a ride. lol

[lirr42]

Well do they sell these weekly passes at the kiosks? I don't recall seeing them and that's why I've previously bought a 10 pack.  Even so I still think the 10 pack should be discounted slightly.  Even $70.00 would be a deal as opposed to $82.00.

 

If you mean Ticket Vending Machines, then yes.

 

The MTA has no desire and no reason to offer discounts on its peak ten-trip tickets.  All of the commuters are getting monthlies or weeklies anyways, so the trains will be full no matter how much of a discount you put on it or not.  Off-peak travel has room for more discretionary travelers, so that is why you would see the discount applied there.

 

Metro-North's Fares page on its website (http://web.mta.info/mnr/html/fares.htm#a1) offers a lot of good information about MN's fare policy and the types of tickets they offer.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If you mean Ticket Vending Machines, then yes.

 

The MTA has no desire and no reason to offer discounts on its peak ten-trip tickets.  All of the commuters are getting monthlies or weeklies anyways, so the trains will be full no matter how much of a discount you put on it or not.  Off-peak travel has room for more discretionary travelers, so that is why you would see the discount applied there.

 

Metro-North's Fares page on its website (http://web.mta.info/mnr/html/fares.htm#a1) offers a lot of good information about MN's fare policy and the types of tickets they offer.

I would beg to differ on that. I see plenty of people using single tickets like myself regularly on MetroNorth during peak hours.  You have a lot of people in Riverdale that ride like myself - 3 - 4 times a week, who would probably ride a bit more.  If they squeezed even 3 - 4 more rides out of folks like myself that wouldn't be a bad deal.  

 

To tell you the truth, they probably would've converted me to buying a monthly by now and just using the express bus other times had I been given more incentive.  You see they've been marketing their service hard in Riverdale and there's a market there but you have a lot of folks here that switch up between the express buses and MetroNorth, so the question is how badly do they want new riders that they can convert...

The LIRR is another story because it's pretty much the main show in town.  Not so in Riverdale.

[lirr42]

Like I said, all of the commuters are getting monthlies or weeklies anyways, so the trains will be full no matter how much of a discount you put on it or not.  I'd wager that if MNCR discounted peak ten-trip tickets they would lose more than they would make.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Like I said, all of the commuters are getting monthlies or weeklies anyways, so the trains will be full no matter how much of a discount you put on it or not.  I'd wager that if MNCR discounted peak ten-trip tickets they would lose more than they would make.

Well it's a marketing plan that could look into.  The point isn't about how many riders they get during peak hours, but rather how many NEW riders can they attract to become MONTHLY or WEEKLY riders, rather than just once in a blue moon riders.  I also don't like you insinuating that because I don't buy a monthly a weekly on MetroNorth that I'm somehow not a commuter or less important.     I do buy a weekly, just not on MetroNorth and that adds up monthly to more than a monthly MetroNorth pass.

[lirr42]

Well it's a marketing plan that could look into.  The point isn't about how many riders they get during peak hours, but rather how many NEW riders can they attract to become MONTHLY or WEEKLY riders, rather than just once in a blue moon riders.  I also don't like you insinuating that because I don't buy a monthly a weekly on MetroNorth that I'm somehow not a commuter or less important.     I do buy a weekly, just not on MetroNorth and that adds up monthly to more than a monthly MetroNorth pass.

 

I'm not insinuating anything.  The main target market for the LIRR and MNCR is commuters.  People who go into the city in the morning and come out of it in the evening.  One-way and ten-trip ticket sales are chump change compared to what the LIRR and MNCR rake in on the first day of the month.

 

Encourage discretionary travelers all you want, but when push comes to shove, discounting peak ten-trip's isn't going to fund our next $29 billion Capital Plan.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not insinuating anything.  The main target market for the LIRR and MNCR is commuters.  People who go into the city in the morning and come out of it in the evening.  One-way and ten-trip ticket sales are chump change compared to what the LIRR and MNCR rake in on the first day of the month.

 

Encourage discretionary travelers all you want, but when push comes to shove, discounting peak ten-trip's isn't going to fund our next $29 billion Capital Plan.

That's precisely my point.  If you have commuters who would consider buying a weekly or a monthly, it would make sense to target those people who are on the fence and currently use a weekly or monthly using another commuter service.  The cost has nothing to do with why I don't use MetroNorth as a weekly or monthly commuter.  The issue is the convenience of it compared to the express bus.  As it is now, I pay more monthly using the express bus compared to the monthly MetroNorth pass.  

 

The point is if you can get the "occasional" rider to switch to using the service daily you've done a good job from a marketing point of view and to be honest, I've been going back and forth on making the switch to ride more often and I always come back to convenience.  I would never give up the express bus because of its convenience, but I would probably be willing to buy a weekly or even a monthly MetroNorth pass if I just rode a bit more than 3-4 times a week. It would make more sense economically, since ideally I would buy that and still keep my weekly express bus pass.

[lirr42]

Not to mention that they already give a substantial discount on monthly and weekly tickets already (the break-even point for a weekly is 7-8 trips.  and on monthlies you break-even in roughly 12-13 days).  If you're taking the train 3-4 days per week you might be better off getting a monthly and not bothering with 10-trips in the first place.

 

In the month of August I tracked my train travel to see how much I was really paying to take the train.  In August 2013, I paid $466 for my monthly and traveled 5,173.4 miles.  If I were to pay full price for all of those trips I would have shelled out $1,185.  In the end I only paid about $8.79 per trip instead and only nine cents per mile.  So monthly tickets can be a very good deal.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not to mention that they already give a substantial discount on monthly and weekly tickets already (the break-even point for a weekly is 7-8 trips.  and on monthlies you break-even in roughly 12-13 days).  If you're taking the train 3-4 days per week you might be better off getting a monthly and not bothering with 10-trips in the first place.

 

In the month of August I tracked my train travel to see how much I was really paying to take the train.  In August 2013, I paid $466 for my monthly and traveled 5,173.4 miles.  If I were to pay full price for all of those trips I would have shelled out $1,185.  In the end I only paid about $8.79 per trip instead and only nine cents per mile.  So monthly tickets can be a very good deal.

Yes, a monthly could be a good deal if I ride MetroNorth more than 3 - 4 times a week.  Going home, the express bus is much more practical as it is faster than MetroNorth.  Going to work however, MetroNorth and the express bus are about the same, but MetroNorth tends to be delayed less so it seems more practical.  If I lived closer to MetroNorth I would use it more, but because I have to take the shuttle bus, that adds more time to the commute, whereas with the express bus, it's just one bus and I'm usually off quickly with no traffic.

[Truckie]

People buy what they need to buy as a result of their travel habits.  Those that travel peak both ways every day of the week know that a monthly is the way to go.  On the other hand there are those that chose to purchase peak and off peak 10 trips and use the appropriate one when needed because that's what works for them. 

 

I don't think that many commuters have the option to go to their boss and ask if they can start later because it will cost less to get back and forth.

 

Fortunately there are many companies that offer a pre tax benefit from their pay to offset the cost of travel.  I think the current IRS maximum allowed benefit is $240 per month.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

People buy what they need to buy as a result of their travel habits.  Those that travel peak both ways every day of the week know that a monthly is the way to go.  On the other hand there are those that chose to purchase peak and off peak 10 trips and use the appropriate one when needed because that's what works for them. 

 

I don't think that many commuters have the option to go to their boss and ask if they can start later because it will cost less to get back and forth.

 

Fortunately there are many companies that offer a pre tax benefit from their pay to offset the cost of travel.  I think the current IRS maximum allowed benefit is $240 per month.

What's your point exactly? 

[Truckie]

My point is your "occasional" rider senario. People travel because they want to go from point "A" to point "B" based on their needs. I doubt if they are going to travel extra just because they have nothing better to do just to make a commutation ticket beneficial no matter how much it's marketed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My point is your "occasional" rider senario. People travel because they want to go from point "A" to point "B" based on their needs. I doubt if they are going to travel extra just because they have nothing better to do just to make a commutation ticket beneficial no matter how much it's marketed.

Of course not, but a lot of people that are occasional riders are put off from using MetroNorth or the LIRR more frequently because of the high fares.  

[Amtrak7]

Metro-North has significantly increased off peak, intermediate, and reverse peak ridership. LIRR still remains a heavily peaked operation.

 

A monthly pays for itself if you take a one way peak commute every weekday: your return trip is basically free. So if you took a peak round trip 3-4 days a week, the monthly would still be worth it.

 

A weekly pays for itself if you take over 7 (peak) rides in a week.

[RtrainBlues]

The success of Nassau County's N4x, N6x, and N22x limited stop buses (that stop every couple of MILES) show there is a large volume of customers who simply cannot afford the off-peak (or peak) LIRR fares.

[Truckie]

Of course not, but a lot of people that are occasional riders are put off from using MetroNorth or the LIRR more frequently because of the high fares.

You're right. For me to take Metro North from the upstate Beacon area it wound cost me approximately $40 for a round trip peak ticket, $3.25 for parking and about 8 miles driving round trip. For the sake of argument $50 total for the day.

 

Thanks for promoting Metro North making it look like the more attractive option!

If I decided to drive I'd have to pay an average of $40 to park in midtown for the day, $5 in tolls (discounted from $15 because of ezpass) and about 125 miles driving (@ 25 miles per gallon and almost $4 per gallon in gas=$20). Total driving expense before additional wear on the car is taken into consideration (increases fluid change intervals) is $65.

 

Hmmmm..... $65 to drive or $50 to train it at the high fares. I'll take the high fares and stay off the highways so I don't have to deal with the rush hour traffic.

 

Should I have the option to travel off peak, my train expense would be less ($5 to $10) but my alternative option would cost the same.

 

Thanks for promoting Metro North!

[Amtrak7]

If I decided to drive I'd have to pay an average of $40 to park in midtown for the day, $5 in tolls (discounted from $15 because of ezpass) and about 125 miles driving (@ 25 miles per gallon and almost $4 per gallon in gas=$20). Total driving expense before additional wear on the car is taken into consideration (increases fluid change intervals) is $65.

 

Hmmmm..... $65 to drive or $50 to train it at the high fares. I'll take the high fares and stay off the highways so I don't have to deal with the rush hour traffic.

 

Should I have the option to travel off peak, my train expense would be less ($5 to $10) but my alternative option would cost the same.

 

Thanks for promoting Metro North!

 

I tend to disregard the parking if I'm not dealing with the airport, since it usually already makes financial sense without it and some employers provide discounted parking.

 

So the Beacon roundtrip costs $5 in tolls + 140 miles @ 56.5 cents per mile (IRS business rate), or $83.10.

 

For something like Mount Vernon, the IRS rate gets you $19, and the one way peak fare is $10. Yes, if you have to park you make up the difference, but it's nowhere as huge as the Beacon difference.

 

In general, the further out you live, the more money taking the railroad will save you (plus, who wants to sit and drive for an hour and a half or more?). From very near, like Bronx/Queens, it's quite expensive. And if you were planning to carpool, forget about the railroad.

 

Some MTA board members are being very vocal about this, saying that raising fare revenue simply by increasing one way's x% can't go much farther since it's becoming cost prohibitive for families, small groups, etc.

 

 

The success of Nassau County's N4x, N6x, and N22x limited stop buses (that stop every couple of MILES) show there is a large volume of customers who simply cannot afford the off-peak (or peak) LIRR fares.

Peak, because these are rush hour only routes.

[Truckie]

 

I tend to disregard the parking if I'm not dealing with the airport, since it usually already makes financial sense without it and some employers provide discounted parking.

 

So the Beacon roundtrip costs $5 in tolls + 140 miles @ 56.5 cents per mile (IRS business rate), or $83.10.

 

 

In general, the further out you live, the more money taking the railroad will save you (plus, who wants to sit and drive for an hour and a half or more?). From very near, like Bronx/Queens, it's quite expensive. And if you were planning to carpool, forget about the railroad.

 

 

 

For parking I was giving an example of how much it would cost in a parking garage in midtown.  Of course some employers may offer discounted parking, however, this may not be the case for the "occasional" rider as VG8 mentioned.

 

For fuel expenses I was pointing out how much it would physically cost me to fill up my tank.  If you go by IRS it would be more but it wouldn't likely be an reimbursable expense under IRS code. 

 

I will in no way dispute the car pooling option.  Again, this was just a top of my head comparison to VG8's occasional rider.  I know if I a normal joe that had to go to midtown tomorrow due to unexpected business (personal or otherwise) and had no one to carpool with taking the train would be the winner hands down!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're right. For me to take Metro North from the upstate Beacon area it wound cost me approximately $40 for a round trip peak ticket, $3.25 for parking and about 8 miles driving round trip. For the sake of argument $50 total for the day.

 

Thanks for promoting Metro North making it look like the more attractive option!

If I decided to drive I'd have to pay an average of $40 to park in midtown for the day, $5 in tolls (discounted from $15 because of ezpass) and about 125 miles driving (@ 25 miles per gallon and almost $4 per gallon in gas=$20). Total driving expense before additional wear on the car is taken into consideration (increases fluid change intervals) is $65.

 

Hmmmm..... $65 to drive or $50 to train it at the high fares. I'll take the high fares and stay off the highways so I don't have to deal with the rush hour traffic.

 

Should I have the option to travel off peak, my train expense would be less ($5 to $10) but my alternative option would cost the same.

 

Thanks for promoting Metro North!

Very cute, but with the increases coming in 2015 and 2017, I would wonder if MetroNorth would still look attractive in that scenario for the occasional rider. I actually have been taking off-peak trains on purpose of late mainly because I've become rather annoyed at having to stand and pay $8.25 versus paying $6.25 and having a seat to relax in.

[sirtiger]

I see almost zero appeal of driving in midtown in almost any work day.  Its a horrible way of commuting imo.

 

As a perk, one of my relatives actually have a free employee parking space in midtown.  She lives near me & offered me the parking space if we carpool....of course, if I drove using my car.  The worst thing is the unpredictability of nyc traffic & the stress of sitting in traffic....stop & go traffic isn't fun & abusive to my car.  I've driven to manhattan in as little as 20 min and it has taken as long as 3 hrs.

 

Some say driving is freedom. To me, is a prison to be stuck in traffic not knowing when the cars will move.  Then I will spend more time than ever getting gas, maintaining cars myself or spend time at mechanics on weeekend more than ever.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I see almost zero appeal of driving in midtown in almost any work day.  Its a horrible way of commuting imo.

 

As a perk, one of my relatives actually have a free employee parking space in midtown.  She lives near me & offered me the parking space if we carpool....of course, if I drove using my car.  The worst thing is the unpredictability of nyc traffic & the stress of sitting in traffic....stop & go traffic isn't fun & abusive to my car.  I've driven to manhattan in as little as 20 min and it has taken as long as 3 hrs.

 

Some say driving is freedom. To me, is a prison to be stuck in traffic not knowing when the cars will move.  Then I will spend more time than ever getting gas, maintaining cars myself or spend time at mechanics on weeekend more than ever.

I've known people that do actually drive in and they can get away with it because #1 they have parking and #2 they come in early enough to beat the rush so they can get in without too many problems.  In those instances it isn't really a problem.