Interested Rider

The reason that many riders prefer taking two buses instead of a bus and a train as if there is no elevator at the station, then climbing the stairs is tough especially if you have packages and cannot walk that well. As our population ages, climbing stairs becomes more difficult so the alternative of two buses especially now with all local buses low floor very soon becomes an attractive alternative to a bus/train routing. Do a search of previous threads involving access to subway stations and right there is the best argument for keeping parallel bus service to subway lines. In the era of providing better access for all riders, it is incumbent that if it means that parallel routes to subways be kept, then so be it. My advice to those that are thinking about it to think twice as while you are able to walk steps with no problem right now, think of yourself when you become a senior and are the position of a person who has to travel for medical appointments or shopping. Right then and there, unless the person making the decision is without a heart, they would keep the parallel bus routes.

Kingsborough has had over 50 years to resolve this problem and they did nothing. I attended KCC from 1966 - 1968 and in the 1967 - 1968 year, I was at the Manhattan Beach Campus (the year before the college had a branch at the Manhattan Beach Jewish Center where I attended classes) and the same problems involving the students were around at that time with the difference being the two routes that served Mackenzie Street (the old, old B/1 with 20 minute headways and the B/21). Since that time they have built this beautiful campus but yet KCC did nothing for those students that were taking the bus to school such as incorporating a bus loop which would have alleviated many of the problems. As posted here, other colleges have helped their students by providing either substitute bus service or by working with the MTA in terms of providing a place for the MTA to have its buses stop close to the campus. This is another case where another unit has pushed its problems on the back on the MTA and is forcing the MTA to resolve a problem that they did not create. It is about time that the MTA pushed the problem back to where it belongs onto Kingsborough and get them to resolve a problem that is of their own making and make it abundantly clear that it is their problem to solve and not the MTA. After all, Kingsborough has had over 50 years to resolve the problem so KCC cannot tell the MTA that they will continue to do nothing.

Nothing new on NYCHA as the top position still has not been filled by the Mayor's office. My opinion is that all of the hot air produced by the city, its officials and media was to get more federal funds to bail out the authority. HUD and the president did not bite as it is a city problem and why help New York City (and New York State) when the top elected officials and those in the legislature are only interested in going after the president for his tax returns or for this and that thing that happened before he took office. The president knows that no matter what he will do to placate these individuals they will still vote against him in the presidential election, so the odds of winning the state are slim and none. What disturbs me more than anything else is that the individuals who talk about the federal government helping NYCHA are the same ones that are responsible for the problem in the first place and should be held accountable. They were in charge of HUD and this area under Clinton where there was talk of selling the apartments to the tenants in many of the developments. Just think if this had happened in the trendy neighborhoods of the five boroughs where the tenants who now were owners could have sold their apartments for a nice profit which unfortunately will never happen as the two of them (Cuomo and deBlasio) did not want to do as it would not help fund their useless campaigns for office (or for that matter, higher office). The end result is nothing will be done as the media is not interested as neither is the political establishment as to them it is a non-story. A couple of months from now, we will read a one column item in one of the local papers that will be forgotten about the next day.

Let me update as construction has started on the south parking lane of Avenue Z just east of the bus stop on the east side of East 15th Street. There is no parking on the north side of Avenue Z at that location and all eastbound traffic on Avenue Z is diverted into the westbound lane at that point. The eastbound bus stop at East 15th Street remains in use at that point.

I agree with you as for the eastbound/northbound routing but then what happens when the entire street is closed off at that point? When Sheepshead Bay Road Road was two way from East 17th Street to East 15th Street then there was no problem as the buses could be rerouted. That does not exist now as it is one way from East 14th Street to East 17th Street and the portion from East 14th Street to the Station has become a taxicab parking lot. This is why I posted what I did with the hope that someone in the MTA will look at the post and try to figure out a solution that would be implemented before it becomes one big headache,

I remember when Metrocard was rolled out and the first place was Staten Island. I was working on Staten Island at that time and opted for the unlimited card as soon as it went systemwide along with the tax benefits. It must be about 20 years..

I tried to find the appropriate thread for this change which is coming and thanks to the post that the people who are in charge are reading our post, I hope that someone will see this post. Today when I was at East 15th Street and Avenue Z, I noticed pipe and the the big concrete thing that is associated with sewer construction on the south side of Avenue Z near East 16th Street. When I see these things, I get worried as the B/36, B/4 and B/49 operate on that street and there are no real alternative streets if construction will be done.

Why does this not surprise me? He who forgets history is doomed to repeat it and this mayor has done the same thing that John Lindsay did and look what happened after he left the office. The big difference is at that time we had leadership in Albany and in our representatives in Congress something that is missing today. This time when (and if) bankruptcy will occur, the city and state will both go down and the only ones that they can blame is themselves.

I think that you are right about the "caution; bus is turning" but I think that there is another reason that is overlooked from a legal perspective. When a motorist comes out from the driver's seat at the same time a bus is coming out of the stop or making a turn, the driver's side door would get damaged. I have seen this happen and even though it was quite a few years ago, once the police are called then the possibility of a law suit comes into play. By announcing that the bus is turning and the driver still opens the door, then the motorist has the problem.

The announcements are designed as VIP said to cut the lawsuits as the information has been posted for the person to read. Whether he or she reads and chooses not to follow it is their business but now the TA can state for the record that the person had been warned prior to not following the posted rule. It is the same thing with the "Caution; Bus is turning" as it gives a warning to pedestrians and motorists that either the bus is turning from one street to another or is pulling out of the bus stop. This is another one of those ideas that came out of the failure of either a motorist or most likely a pedestrian to look and wait for the bus to do what it is supposed to do and is an outcome of our litigious society.

I just reviewed both posts and as well as the weather underground 10 day chart and both Accuweather and Weatherunderground have it changing to rain but after a prolonged period of snow changing to ice and then rain. The temperature forecasts for the day indicate that it will be very close to 32 degrees or at the freezing level. This winter, the weather systems have been coming from west to east which precludes large amounts of snow. If this was a normal winter then it would follow the usual pattern of storms coming from the south to north, then the snow amounts will be much higher. Past forecasts do not indicate that the same pattern will be followed on Tuesday and compare it to the November storm forecast and how it changed in a couple of hours. When I read many of the posts on this forum, there are a lot of posts that are pure speculation of what will occur when for example new buses and trains will be going when they arrive, that is basically a management decision that involves specific garages and yards and is done over a long period of time. A snow event such as this is totally different as it change in a matter of minutes. After the November storm, the MTA does not want to hear from every politician and every so called journalist who knows nothing about transit coming out of the woodwork to blame the MTA, forgetting the fact that weather is an inexact science and therefore can change in a New York minute. it is my opinion that the MTA will err on the side of caution and will put chains on bus tires and will replace the artics with the 40 foot buses on Tuesday.

Has anyone checked the weather for this Tuesday? It seems that both of the weather sites that I check on a regular basis are predicting snow with Weather Underground (3-5 inches) and Accuweather (1-3 inches). It maybe a good time for our fellow posters in Manhattan and the Bronx to be on the look out over the next day to see if the 40 foot buses from other garages make an appearance.

Thank you BM5 via Woodhaven for posting the official NYCT statement. When I saw the NYCT statement which was posted upstairs on the southbound Avenue M platform I noted was not posted on the street level. I could not figure that one out. You are not the only one who thought the same thing. I read the statement out loud and my reaction was "Huh!". When i was at the station at 1:54 PM southbound Q trains were running express from Prospect Park to Kings Highway and normal service northbound. The reason that I elected to take the B/9 and B/44 routing as it enabled me to avoid going up and down the stairs at Avenue M, Newkirk Plaza and Sheepshead Bay. Agreed but the way that the NYCT post reads it said "animal", it should have said "injured animal". If I had seen that on the posting my reaction would have more sympathetic as compared with my initial reaction which did not state that it was an injured goose.

Did anyone pick up on the reason that the southbound Q trains running express from Prospect Park to Kings Highway since about 130 PM?? The posted something that service had resumed at about 3:10 PM with delays as there was an animal on the tracks. It seems that when I was at Avenue M station southbound side about 150 PM , it seems that southbound platform sign said at the bottom stated there was police activity at Parkside Avenue and said the reason was "a goose". I am not kidding! I took the B/9 to the B/44 rather than wait.

It turns out that the R/42 was testing the timers on the express track. When I read that 4806 was part of the consist, I remembered that particular number was part of unit.

This again! Nothing will change on the B. The B will remain as is with the equipment it presently has now.

It has been like that for as long as I can remember and I go back to the middle of the 1970's and back then it was the air-conditioning during the summer and the heat during the winter. It was though we had air conditioned buses assigned to the island where the air conditioning never worked on the locals . As far as maintenance was concerned, if it was either January or June on the calendar, rest assured that a considerable portion of the local fleet was out of service, It should be noted that they had to borrow local buses from the rest of the city for many years from the late 1960's through 2008. For many years, it was not uncommon to have local buses used on the express routes. The garages were finally built and the water problem at Castleton was finally fixed up after almost a half a century but the maintenance problems are still there, new buses, old buses, it is the same problem that has been going on for fifty years and continue to go until someone will finally do something about it.

Thank you for your comments and I await comments from others on this subject. Your response to item # 1 concerning the B/9 is related to my question concerning how the MTA makes its decisions concerning the number of buses needed for the route. Your response was the reason that I asked question # 4 as to how they get the statistics for each route? Since the route has been carrying 10k per day for at least a decade then why has the route not been allocated more runs and buses as the justification is there? Were the statistics used taken on days when the ridership was much lower such as non-school days or religious holidays? My response as to why I would not extend the B/2 period is that I believe in short routes. Too many routes are far too long and when there are traffic problems, it makes a bad situation far worse. It is for the same reason that I am in total opposition to the drivers driving the first half of the route on one route and the second half on a different route as it insures that if there is a delay on the first route that it will impact on the second route. I remember the days when drivers spent both halves on the same route and the service was far better than it is now as if there was a delay in service, it could be minimized just to that one route. It is also the reason that I believe those in Transit making these decisions should get out from in front of their computers and out of their offices and let them try driving a bus where they have to work a split on two different routes. In my opinion it is far more costly as it does not save money at all but results in a much larger decrease in revenue and a big reason that bus service has gotten so bad. As far as your responses to questions 2 and 3, I will wait for more responses to appear before i will write a response.

i have read the responses to my suggestions and comments and I appreciate the points that the posters have raised whether I agree or disagree with them. There are some questions and comments that I would like to raise in reference to some of the responses: 1) The B/9 has been impacted by the N Line partial shutdown of stations. Could this be the reason that the number of riders has increased as many of the riders would rather take the B/9 to and from 4th Avenue heading east as compared with the N Line and thus have decided to take the B/9 on a permanent basis? Could this be the problem with the failure to put more buses on the B/9 during the work? 2) Since the B/64 is quite crowded (and I am referring to the portion between 13th Avenue and the expressway only) then why have the riders not shifted to the B/4 on Bay Ridge Parkway? The portion west of 4th Avenue is too far from the B/64 at that point. If you look at the schedules of the B/4 over many years on the Bay Ridge Parkway portion, it has remained virtually static for many years but the B/34,1, 64 has been cut over the same time period. 3) A s I stated before I remain opposed to the extension of the B/2, However, I would be interested in reading the comments as to changing the route from 65th Street to Bay Ridge Parkway from Bay Parkway west. (Avenue R, Ocean Parkway, Kings Highway, Stillwell Avenue) (Eastbound via Kings Highway to East 16th Street). The reason that I am asking about the change is that the ridership on that portion may already exist and yet is untapped. 4) How does the TA collect statistics for each and every bus route. The bus drivers used to fill in a form that listed the farebox statistics and .then it was the twice a year persons checking the line. How do they do it now and is there a more efficient way to do it today. I will be posting additional questions and comments on other points that were raised here in the future..

I do not like posting the comments listed below but sometimes it is necessary to remind a fellow member of what the purpose of the forum is to all of us who are interested in the subject The purpose of this forum is for the exchange of ideas and views on various subjects. When I disagree with a person, I will use respectful terms such as "I disagree for the following reasons" or "this is my opinion" and leave it at that. I do not believe in bringing up past history or past battles that have been fought as all it does is create more problems and detracts from the original purpose of this forum. This is why when I post anything here or when I respond to anything on the internet, I watch what I write as the use of the wrong words can quickly escalate into something that becomes a flame war. This is the way I was taught when I started working with the internet many years ago. That said, i have read the last couple of posts concerning my comments on this thread and it seems the Brooklyn Bus is at it again trying to ignite a flame war like he had with me a couple of months ago. Let me state quite emphatically, I have no plans to get involved in a flame war again with him as it detracts from the original purpose of this forum. This is not the proper place for such a battle as it defeats the purpose of this forum which is the exchange of different views on various topics. I welcome the views of members who disagree with me and I look forward to having a meaningful discussion provided that we are respectful of one another's views.

I stand by my statements that I posted here.

When I look at changing any bus route, I not only look at streets, I look at communities where the change is to take place. The argument that 65th Street should have a bus is based on the theory that there is a big gap between the bus routes between the B/9 and the B/64. As I stated above, I look at communities and the communities include Borough Park and Sunset Park and Dyker Heights. The distance between the B/35 and the B/11 on 50th Street is 11 short blocks. The distance between the B/11 and the B/9 is 11 short blocks from 49th Street. The B/9 and B/11 are heavily used in Borough Park and into Midwood as the communities have a lot in common that have riders in these communities riding the buses. The distance south of 60th Street is different as there is bus service on Bay Ridge Avenue (69th Street) to 13th Avenue, then 6 short blocks to Bay Ridge Parkway (75th Street) and finally 11 short blocks to 86th Street. For all intensive purposes 60th Street is the line of demarcation between Dyker Heights and Borough Park. This can be seen in the ridership levels and headways both north and south of 60th Street. For what purpose will an extension to Bay Ridge serve the riders of the B/2 or B/31. Putting a bus on 65th Street serves no purpose as the ridership from Borough Park or from the B/9 will not ride as it does not serve their institutions in Midwood as they live north of 60th Street. People living south of 60th Street are part of a totally different community that do not have that institutional connection that Borough Park has with Midwood. Both Bay Ridge Avenue and Bay Ridge Parkway buses have served communities that are south of west of Stillwell Avenue as that is where the interests were for many years. While the communities have changed, the institutions are not there that would justify the extension of either the B/2 or B/31. My point about communities also involves the change to the B/9 to replace the B/41 to Bergen Beach. The B/9 needs the connection to Kings Plaza where riders transfer to the Q/35 as again it is the institutions in Belle Harbor and Neponsit. This does not exist in Bergen Beach as the community needs the connection to the Flatbush/Nostrand Station and the B/9 does absolutely nothing for them. Eliminating the B/41 Bergen Beach branch does nothing except to help the dollar vans. Drawing straight lines and making them into bus routes does not work and has not worked for as long as can remember and I am going back close to 45 years. Buses work best when the routes connect the institutions and places where the people need and offer quality, dependable service which encourages ridership. Sometimes the best thing for those who make the decisions is to get out of their offices where they can enjoy their view of New York Harbor and ride the buses, speak to the workers and the passengers. Until the rest of the MTA follows Mr. Byford's example, the system will not change.

Just what we need another extension of the B/6 to make a bad situation worse. What is my interest in the B/6 extension when I ride the B/36? The answer is that many drivers work a split; that is one half on the B/6 and the other half on the B/36 and when the driver is running late on the B/6, it impacts upon the service on the B/36. When drivers did both halves on the same route then a driver could be put in place during a delay which helped the riders. As many members of the forum know, I remain adamantly opposed to having drivers do one half of their trip on one route and the other on another route as while it saves pennies and justifies what the pencil people are doing, it hurts ridership. For the same reason, I believe that there is a limit to how long a route should take one way in terms of time as you reach a point where maintaining a decent headway becomes unsustainable as one small delay can snowball into a major problem on the route. One last comment concerning the extension of the B/2 (or for that matter the B/31) from Kings Highway Station. There is no market for that service as the B/64 headway during the non peak hours is 20 minutes which means there is no reason to justify another route on Bay Ridge Avenue. The 69th Street Ferry is long, long gone and that was the reason that there were 7 minute headways 50 years ago and now has 20 minute headways. The extension would serve an area that is almost all residential and where automobile use has skyrocketed as it has in other parts of southern Brooklyn.

The way to stop copycat crimes is to come down hard on the perpetrators by making sure that they do the maximum amount of time so that they will regret what they did and send a message to anyone else who even thinks of doing this type of crime. Unfortunately, we have not heard a word from the persons that enforce the law such as the mayor, governor or district attorneys or their mouthpieces in the media that once these individuals are caught that they will not be allowed to plea bargain to something lessor that will perpetuate the falsehood that this is a "victimless crime". I heard many times from inmates about property that belongs to the state should not be treated with the upmost respect as they do not care as the state can afford to buy a new one. It is that type of thinking that leads to more crime as the person will take more chances as he feels that if he could get away with this crime then he can get away with bigger things.

Whether particular laws or rules are enforced comes from the top and that is both the elected and unelected officials who make the these decisions. Whatever they decide will have either a positive or negative influence on a person's actions. Remember Bill Bratton and the "broken windows" philosophy and how it worked. What it did was to create in a person's mind that if they do something wrong, they will get punished for it. What it did was to put a scare in many people who may have thought about doing something (for example: farebeating) but the thought (and most likely certainty) of what the consequences were changed their mind. This was stated many times by our then elected officials including the mayor and our district attorneys who prosecuted these crimes. The message got through and the city saw a decrease in crime as when not only farebeating was prosecuted but many other things that have an effect on the quality of life, it created an environment where people thought twice before doing something like it. Today it is different as since our mayor and his friends in the New York City Council came into office, they came with a mindset that the "broken windows" theory does not work and therefore it must be changed completely. They want to pick and choose what laws are to be followed and thus the ingredients are there for a decline in the prosecution of what they consider "low level" crimes such as farebeating. When the public hears the elected officials stating that they will not prosecute them and say it publicly like Cyrus "White Shoes" Vance, the District Attorney of New York county (A/K/A Manhattan) and this is broadcast in the media and is supported by other elected officials either publicly or privately, then you have the makings of a major increase in farebeating. If the crime is not going to be prosecuted then the perception in the public's mind, becomes just do it as there is no penalty as if it is not being enforced in Manhattan, then the perception becomes the same policy will apply in the other boroughs as well. If you are in law enforcement or a transit worker, would you put your life on the line to stop farebeating when you know that management will not support you?