TheSubwayStation

TheSubwayStation, do you have a response to my reply?

 

This debate is more trouble than it's worth IMO, because whether the on one track would cause too many delays is purely subjective.

Via Tunnel???

 

My earlier post explained that their TPH would be adjusted to allow for that.

But IMO (and I stress MY OPINION) three train lines on the Broadway local track from Downtown BK to almost Queens isn't going to work.

 

Are you aware of trains per hour and capacity and such? Theoretically, the , , and on one track is not over capacity. If you think there's a problem, then why don't you just run each of them a little less frequently? That's much better than overcrowding the and specifically, and the already overcrowded IRT.

People can get the Q at Atlantic and/ or DeKalb across the platform. This would also help the Brighton riders get more consistent and reliable service since it would have no tracks to share or bridges to cross (lol). Sure, they would have to get off their train in Brooklyn, but they would have NO LACK of transfers.

 

Also, you can have a person who wanted the in Manhattan just stay on the and and transfer in Brooklyn or take an IRT at Times Square or 14th st to Atlantic Center.

 

I just thought this would be the easiest thing to do.

 

This would cause crowding on the and , though, don't you think?

 

Anyway, I'll try something new:

 

Here's a G.O. alert poster for my Manhattan Bridge scenario: https://docs.google....wRbYAV_Ee0/edit

NEXT

There is a stalled train in the middle of switching onto the Local track out of Atlantic Av. Both the Local and Express northbound are impassible.

 

Brooklyn-bound trains terminate at either Wall St, South Ferry, or 34 St-Penn Station

Brooklyn-bound trains terminate at either Bowling Green or Borough Hall

 

Flatbush/New Lots/Utica-bound trains already in Brooklyn continue to their terminals or Livonia Yard

 

Manhattan-bound trains terminate at Eastern Pkwy or Atlantic Av (using spur). Most Manhattan-bound and trains run express from Franklin Av to Atlantic Av to avoid blocking trains terminating at Eastern Pkwy.

 

NTTs should be re-signed at Flatbush/Utica/New Lots Avs as or for trains running express, or or for trains running local.

 

As many trains as possible should leave service into Livonia Yard to reduce the need to terminate Manhattan-bound trains at Eastern Pkwy (to avoid overloading Atlantic Av).

My solution to the Manhattan Bridge problem:

 

: 7 TPH

: 7 TPH

: 7 TPH

All via tunnel

 

Bedford Park Blvd - 34 St-Herald Sq

 

runs in two sections:

 

 

 

Extended to Astoria-Ditmars all times to allow the to terminate on the express tracks at 34 St

 

I tried to avoid overlapping sections of the (too confusing, even with announcements/posters/pamphlets), which is why I terminated both sections at 34 St rather than 57 St/7 Av or W 4 St or wherever.

The Broadway line would have to be all local through the tunnel and in Manhattan. I wouldn't have three lines going through, just two.

 

The simplest thing I could think of is having the N and R both go through the tunnel....The train would be cut short to Dekalb or Atlantic center. The can go express in Brooklyn.

 

Brighton Riders will be pissed, but three lines can't clog up the tunnel...there would be too many delays. That would ripple to Queens.

If push comes to shove, then have it sent to Chambers st via the line....I believe this was a service pattern some decades ago. But I would personally cut it to DeKalb Av or Atlantic Center. At least at Atlantic, they can grab the IRT. This will provide consistent service along the Brighton line and a minimum amount of delays.

 

As for sixth av, I would have a crossover track built before Grand st so that trains can terminate there. If that is not possible, then trains terminate at West 4th st. The will still run but only 5-6 TPH to help the along CPW. will be local.

 

In Brooklyn, a shuttle will run to Atlantic Terminal. It will use the express tracks along 4th av to not clog the and .

 

 

trains will run at all times to supplement the along QB.

 

Why can't you run the in the tunnel? It works on 60 St.

You should read what I wrote, instead of being imature

You have the crazy idea that just because people don't agree with what you said, people must have not read it properly...

NEXT:

The Manhattan Bridge needs to be rebuilt, and gets shut down to ALL train service. This is a planned, long-term service change, so riders can be warned in advance. Thus, you need only to worry about providing the best service possible, and NOT about confusing people.

I just don't know what to say anymore.

 

I know exactly what you can say.

to Whitehall would be awful. Not only is it confusing but it causes switching which could delay the . The , which only has about 7-8tph, to Prospect works perfectly and wouldn't really get in the way of trains that much. If need be, terminate trains on the Brooklyn bound local side; it crosses over the opposing tracks but takes less than a minute and causes no delays.

 

Terminating the at Prospect Park creates switching delays on TOP of the relaying delays...Sure, turning the at Whitehall means that two routes will be delayed instead of one, but it still works.

: Via Express.

: 2 service patterns (bear with me)

1. 2nd Avenue-Jamaica Center, via 6th Avenue Express.

2. 34th Street-Jamaica Center, via 8th Avenue Local.

: Also two service patterns:

1. Uses express tracks south of W. Fourth Street

2. Via 8th Avenue express b/w Jay Street and 50th Street, then via 53rd Street.

: All trains en-route to Manhattan turn at Chambers Street, any trains heading towards 71st Street in Manhattan continue to 71st Street and lay-up at Jamaica Yard, any trains heading southbound follow the solution and turn at 2nd Avenue.

 

I think that is good.

 

Problem: has to use the express tracks, which are already occupied with the and .

and : Normal.

 

+ 1

 

: No service north of Prospect Park, any trains heading northbound run to Bedford Park and lay up at Concourse Yard.

 

- 3 Unfortunately, that completely blocks the .

 

Any trains heading southbound north of W.4th Street continue to World Trade Center and turn there.

 

+ 1

 

: No trains b/w 34th Street and Pacific Street. Any trains b/w W. 4th Street and 34th Street is follow the same plan as the 's.

 

+ 1

 

: No trains b/w 34th Street a

 

Total: 0. If you just ran the to Whitehall St, you'd actually have a great solution; maybe better than mine.

What on Earth has happened to this thread...

 

What are you talking about? We were just discussing each other's solutions.

Let's get this thread back on track . . .

 

New scneario:

The express tracks at the Broadway-Lafayette station are out of service due to a sick passenger. Please reroute without 60 TPH on the local track.

 

Here we go:

Bedford Park Blvd - 34 St-Herald Sq; Brighton Beach - Whitehall St

runs in two sections: 205 St - 2 Av (select trains terminate at 34 St); Coney Island - Whitehall St

 

To avoid overloading Whitehall St, select uptown and trains terminate at 57 St/7 Av and run via Broadway Express.

In other words, what I said was that I completely approve of solutions that include "stop and stay" route suspensions as long as you're not expecting other lines to pass through the same tracks.

No service b/w Hewes Street & Cypress Hills. Trains in between these stations stay at those stations until problem is cleared.

 

+ 2

 

No service b/w Myrtle-Wyckoff Avenues & Atlantic Avenue. Northbound trains b/w Broadway Jct. & Myrtle/Wyckoff Aves continue as normal. Southbound trains stop at the next station and stay.

 

- 1 This overloads the terminals. I honestly can't think of a better way to do this, though.

 

No service b/w Hewes Street & Central Avenue (single tracked).

 

+ 1

 

Suspended. Other trains turn into 's.

 

+ 1

 

How you like that, TSS???

 

Total: + 3

 

Even though I talked about how I didn't like suspending routes, I realize that a route like the in Brooklyn/Queens can be suspended pretty easily because it doesn't share with other lines. The trains can just get stacked up along the line. However, you can't stack up trains on a line where other trains have to pass through, e.g. suspending the train where the train shares tracks with it.

You don't have to use single track shuttles...

 

Okay, then I won't:

suspended, en-route trains should stack up along the route

71 Av - 2 Av

runs in two sections; 8 Av - Myrtle Av, Rockaway Pkwy - Atlantic Av. Yes, I know that I'm overloading the terminals, but who cares . I'll give myself a - 1 for this.

"NEXT:

All switches at the following locations are impassible:

 

Myrtle Avenue-Broadway, , ,

Broadway Junction, , ,

Crescent Street, ,

 

Reroute trains."

 

Is anyone going to solve that lol

 

NO. TSS not in mood for single track shuttles.

Y U NO CHANGE TOP SCORE BACK TO +2?

 

Fixed it.

 

And it wouldn't:

 

trains would go out of service at Hewes Street and lay up on the center track. (6 TPH)

Marcy Avenue can handle the remaining 16 TPH...

 

With this edit included, your score goes up to + 5.

 

No service b/w Marcy Avenue or Broadway Junction & Manhattan.

 

+ 1

 

No service b/w Myrtle Avenue & 71 Avenue.

 

- 3 The en-route trains in Manhattan/Queens need to be rerouted. Sorry, but your solution here isn't possible.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

No service b/w 34 Street-Herald Square & Broadway-Laffayette St.

 

+ 1

 

Uptown trains stops at local track.

 

- 1 You can't have trains passing by 34 St on the same tracks where trains are terminating.

 

 

Total: - 2

Updated rating:

No , or trains b/w their eastern terminals and Marcy Avenue. Any trains en-route towards Metropolitan Avenue continue on their route, and any trains en-route to Forest Hills lay up at Jamaica Yard.

 

- 1 That's going to overload Marcy Av terminal, right?

 

(J)/(Z) trains in Manhattan become <R>'s running to Coney Island Yard to lay up.

 

+ 2 Understanding that the trains aren't in service, that's actually a smart plan to account for all en-route trains.

 

: Suspended b/w 59th Street and Prospect Park. Any trains in this section of the route follow solution below:

 

0 After reading your post explaining that you'd also terminate trains at 34 St Penn Station/HSQ, I see that this is a perfectly good solution. Although, I'd rather re-route select trains (keeping the terminals the same, KISS of course) rather than chopping up the .

 

: Via local b/w B'way-Lafayette and W. 4th Street. (switching after the station)

 

+ 1

 

: No change.

 

+ 1

Total: + 3

No , or trains b/w their eastern terminals and Marcy Avenue. Any trains en-route towards Metropolitan Avenue continue on their route, and any trains en-route to Forest Hills lay up at Jamaica Yard.

 

- 1 That's going to overload Marcy Av terminal, right?

 

(J)/(Z) trains in Manhattan become <R>'s running to Coney Island Yard to lay up.

 

- 2 Fowmyland. Let's stick with regular, yellow, CIRCULAR s, shall we?

 

: Suspended b/w 59th Street and Prospect Park. Any trains in this section of the route follow solution below:

 

- 1 Wait, aren't you going to delay , , and trains?

 

: Via local b/w B'way-Lafayette and W. 4th Street. (switching after the station)

 

+ 1

 

: No change.

 

+ 1

 

Total: - 2

Anyways, here's a new scenario:

The following are unusable

- Entire Bowery J / Z station

- Middle track Essex St J / M / Z

- UPTOWN express track at West 4th Street B / D / F / M

 

This is just begging for to 145 St fowming, but I'm NOT taking the bait !

 

My first thought was to find a way to turn the in Manhattan, but since that would probably mean 34 St-Herald Sq or 34 St-Penn Station, I decided that it was more trouble than it was worth...I'll follow the K.I.S.S. rule:

terminates at Marcy Av, Myrtle Av, or Broadway Jct. riders in Brooklyn are advised to transfer to the at Broadway Jct.

uptown trains stop on the local track at W 4 St (or to avoid the wheel detectors, they can run local all the way to 34 St)

select Manhattan-bound trains terminate at Whitehall St

select Queens-bound trains run via the line from Jay St to W 4 St

select Manhattan-bound trains terminate at either Myrtle Av or Marcy Av

 

Note: I decided to try to keep trains as close as possible to their normal routes, because as Trainmaster5 said, it's a hassle to return the trains from faraway places when normal service resumes. For example, if the terminated at 57 St/7 Av via the line, there would be no available trains on the normal route for a while after the service change ends, while crews try desperately to transport the equipment back to the 6 Av/Concourse lines.

51 foot and 8 ft wide cars for the IRT lines and 60 or 75 ft 10 ft wide cars that the BMT and IND can use. The person that designed the IRT was crazy because now in 2012 there is no uniforme fleet that we run on both lines. So te MTA has to get different length trains.

 

On of the many reasons why capitalism is a bad way of achieving a unified transit system...

Question: do the trains that terminate at Burnside Av go to the yard? If so, how do they access it? Using the switches north of Bedford Park Blvd? If so, why don't they just run local to Bedford Park Blvd?

Well, my guess is, if it holds up, since Bombardier got the contract, it may be ONYX, if they vendor it out again, or Bombardier's.

 

It's going to be Bombardier MITRAC propulsion, according to them.