Deucey

I’m with you. Sure a North-South line would be nice to have, but it's low on the usefulness scale, whereas taking those existing and underutilized LIRR lines and increasing their utility - either by incentivizing likely pax with an economical fare (IIRC there's already a CityFare for LIRR - Make that equal to a NYCTA fare and use a MetroCard to pay it) and limited stop express bus service (say no pickup or dropoff after Penn Av if going thru BK to the BBT or Van Wyck if going thru QMT) and the perceived problem is solved. If RBB were going to be LRT that connected with Bay Ridge and end or run thru Jamaica Station, then go for it since it'll be like LA's Green Line - lower utilization but useful in reducing traffic loads on nearby highways (The 105 and 405 in LA; The Belt, Van Wyck and SSP here). And it could have a park next to it. But a Heavy Rail line that adds trackage but doesn't add capacity is a waste of billions before goes over budget with delay after delay. Express buses and better fare subsidy solves more of the perceived problems for much less.

So instead of devoting funds to building a rail line that makes QBL and Flushing Line travel worse, devote some of those funds to revamping the bus network to feed the SE Q LIRR stations and update pedestrian access, then run some extra express buses with fewer stops. And Queens gets a park that could give me a reason to go to Queens. You damn sure earn that consultant salary V.

Doesn’t LIRR already run an express from the ass end of Queens/Nassau to Penn? If not, why not do it now, have NYCTA subsidize it and make the fare $4-5 or equal to the express bus fare?

As I (barely) understand NYC property tax, properties are either over- or under-assessed based on the average value of housing in a particular area or block (so your property could be appraised by lenders at $1 million, but the Assessor's office could only tax you at $400,000 if other properties on your block are worth only $250-300,000, meaning you're underpaying while your neighbors overpay.), so taxing commercial property should be done but the property assessment process needs to be reformed so the tax assessed matches closer the actual valuation of the property (or lot). But I'd still want a Measure R style consumer sales tax - even if it over funds accounts just because the money is needed to make NYCTA fit for purpose (and I'd make to where MNRR, TBTA and LIRR only received a share of that money based on a ratio of its ridership or utilization to that of NYCTA.)

The other thing I think is lost here is that the current system is already beyond capacity and isn't fit for purpose, so turning RBB into a QBL or IND Fulton spur isn't adding capacity, it's reducing capacity. More riders and more trains on overworked corridors - they might get seats, but the QBL already is SRO, so now you'll have SRO happening sooner. Not to mention that a longer will have the same issue as the - longer route and uneven service being the norm. So a new corridor is needed. Build that and connect to RBB, don't make RBB a spur.

My thinking has two basēs: 1) the entire NYC system is hub and spoke centered on Manhattan, and because there's traffic lights at 95% of every Manhattan intersection below 96th St - especially on east-west corridors, crosstown travel by bus takes as long as walking outside of Central Park (because the park is designed with meandering footpaths to prevent thru pedestrian traffic). So if building tunnels and bridges across LI sound between Q and Bx is financially infeasible, building links between M and Q to benefit Bronxites that work in Queens or folks in Queens that work on the westside that pay for Express buses because it takes just as long or longer to get to the QBL or as it does sitting in traffic in the QMT makes the cost for new crossings somewhat worth it while relieving crowding in Midtown on roads and rails; and 2) going crosstown within a borough is, for lack of a better term, a bitch. Bay Ridge have to go to Downtown Bk to get to JFK; Co-Op city has no reason to use the subway because it's an overcrowded 20-30 minute bus (possibly with transfer(s)) to get to a local train for a 40 minute ride to switch to an express train. Since buses weren't routed to be feeders to trains, it makes many of these zones deserts where you have to go where you away from the direction you need to eventually go where you want. It's asinine. So building systems that a) reduce road congestion, b) relieve currently impacted lines and c) cut travel times by eliminating the backtrack or use of the overcrowded bus is where my "priority" lies. I don't see the RBB really doing anything except priority "c", and for it to go from "nice to have" to "operational need", it'd need to do "a" and "c" without making "b" worse. Now if it tied into a new trunk line that went to Manhattan - or even could continue on PATH - and had an express/local configuration, then it'd be "operational need" in my mind, since it'd actually relieve QBL and connect the Rockaways with Midtown quickly and directly. But making it an extended is just doing something for the sake of appearing to do something beneficial.

Having jurisdiction is immaterial since it still comes down to whether there's a business case for it and if it could be funded to retrofit and operate. If you're asking if I'd advocate for it, I would if only because I think you can't truly solve the car utilization issue if you don't minimize the number of transit deserts in the city. But do I think it's the most pressing issue? I think there are other corridors more in need with better immediate benefits than RBB: I think SAS with express and local trackage between Red Hook and the Bronx is more urgent; a 125th St crosstown line between Columbia and LGA and JFK would benefit more uptown and Queens people (even if routes onto the RBB); A 34th St crosstown connecting to Broadway Junction or the through Maspeth and Ridgewood (because of the express bus density) to supplement QBL; A Fordham-Pelham crosstown local between Inwood and Co-Op city to connect that big transit desert in the East Bx with the IRT and two IND lines whilst relieving the busiest bus line(s) in the city; A Utica Av subway; Fixing the Rogers Junction to eliminate the merge then split to/from the Nostrand line; Connecting the HBLR to SI/rebuild the North Shore line to the Goethals Bridge; and Build a crosstown Light Rail between Bay Ridge and Broadway Junction and Jamaica Station to save SIers and Brooklynites time traveling to JFK and/or reduce traffic on the Belt and Southern State Parkway to jobs and stuff in Nassau County. (I wrote these from most to least worth it.) And I'd also: a) set up separate construction authorities separate from to plan and build them to prevent the SAS cutbacks and East Side Access debacles - with the power to issue bonds and admin transit funding and receive lease payments from or NYC DOT until bonds are paid off b) add a sales tax on purchases made in the city - 3/4¢ of every dollar dedicated solely to infrastructure utilization - operating trains and buses so that EVERY person in NYC - whether resident, tourist or worker - is paying for system management equally without discrimination against one particular group for the satisfaction of another c) I'd get Albany to reform and NYCTA/Mabstoa from corporation structures based on political appointees and patronage to a structure where the borough presidents have board membership as an ex officio responsibility, and the mayor and governor appointment two members each and the other counties get seats that don't vote unless the proposal affects their county's service levels. And d) I'd reform civil service rules so fewer white collar jobs within the MTA are unionized sinecures that draw huge salaries. If you wanted to know...

If it were only that simple. While there's a business case for it for network purposes, you still have to identify a funding source for operations, find labor to operate it and determine how likely it is the route will generate enough utilization to not need enormous subsidy from the rest of the system or if it'll relieve another service substantively enough to make it worth it. I imagine this is still in the "Nice to have" category and not in the "Operational Need" category - otherwise it'd be supported substantially by political heavyweights now.

Just looking at @D to 96 St‘s map, I’m wondering why the Lefferts Bl spur wasn’t extended to Jamaica Center.

Aside from the congestion getting to the bridge? Once you get to Bayonne, NJ 440 becomes what the rest of the US calls an expressway - semi-limited access with traffic signals and driveways (like other NJ almost-freeways), then having to deal with E Street onto 78-Turnpike Extension to the Holland Tunnel charlie foxtrot. Not something I’d recommend.

Wasn’t there a shutdown in the late 90s on this bridge too? why anyone thought that train tracks on the outside was a good idea I dunno.

Orion V on SI and the Bx by Pelham Bay were all bench. Don't remember NYCTA Fishbowls, but don’t think I ever saw a GM or Flxible Fishbowl in bench arrangement.

So why maximize subway passenger area by using bench seating while not maximizing it on buses by instituting bench seating (like the Orion V’s were)?

Can’t speak for others but I give up my seat to any parent holding a child and to children under age 10 or 4’2”.

I don’t understand what you’re asking. Are you asking: if seniors evade fares? if women with children should be able to sit in seats reserved for elderly and disabled people? or something else?

When I rode the high floor bendy buses on the Bx12, they did the same as they do on the subway - get someone to carry it up/down the stairs. Sometimes the BO would use the wheelchair lift. Never see that on RTS’s, but I’m rarely ever on one of those in Bk. Don't get me wrong - I’m not perturbed by unfolded strollers. But where I’m from, personal transport devices that couldn’t be folded or put on racks were restricted to off-peak hours so people have room to stand - save those mobility scooters. My big concern is fare loss. Since VG8’s thread the other day, I’ve noticed many folks get on SI buses without paying, and practically every stroller family of three or more only pay one fare. I get kids have costs that make fares difficult for some, and I’d rather these folks pay $1.38 to get on instead of nothing - especially since one stroller for a baby under 9 months of age takes standing and seating room from 3-5 people.

Through the front. Four people, two fares. i think the rule should be that if the kid is old enough to not sit in your lap, you pay half fare.

On the S52... Like I said earlier, four years, five boroughs and three downstate MTA-funded counties and I’ve NEVER seen a stroller folded on a NYCTA vehicle.

They do PR campaigns. I mean, I stopped trying to pole dance and manspread because of the red stick figure.

I must be the only person here who's ridden buses in all 5 boroughs and three downstate counties in the service area and have NEVER seen anyone fold a stroller.

I’ve been all over the country and I’ve never known an area where State police and County Sheriffs (or equivalent general law enforcement agencies) don’t have jurisdiction. City police typically don’t cross city boundaries to patrol or pursue without approval from the neighboring jurisdictions, but county and state have universal jurisdiction within their borders (the latter is created by the state to administer state priorities and services, while cities are incorporated by petition to address petitioners’ priorities).

So why the objection to State Troopers patrolling NYC streets and highways? It's pretty common elsewhere - State police and local PD generating revenue citing drivers for bullshit with no turf war between them.

Despite being a veteran of many vBulletin forums in the aughts, it never dawned on me that people here use signatures (but I only use my phone for internet). Sigs don't show up on mobile. Is that an option that could be turned on?

Look at HOV in SoCal vs NorCal - SoCal has lanes separated by double double yellow or by physical barriers, while NorCal just designates the fast lane as carpool/JOV during peak periods. Highway Patrol enforcement occurs, but in 16 years of driving in California, I used NorCal HOVs regularly driving solo and never got cited - like many others. SoCal or on the LIE? Never tried because cops would pick me out quickly by sight or traffic cameras would record me. It's a nice idea to bring it to streets in outer boroughs, but I'm sure it'd work just as well as fire lanes on Manhattan avenues did in the 90s - and you don't see them marked or enforced anymore...