EastFlatbushLarry

re: the bx19... there's a concrete passenger base that actually rides thru the hub to & from southern blvd & 145 street. it's one of those rare long(er) lines (in my opinion) that's a true x-town, where people actually use it to go across town into harlem... including the elderly who want nothing to do with climbing the ridiculous steps upstairs to the train/don't want to ride the train in general. re: the bx15... i was saying this only after doing the 15 local on the extra list over the summer (which isn't a large sample size for the Bx15 corridor overall, I'll admit) but in general, over the years, I've never seen bone dry 15 limiteds heading in & out of Harlem. however, i have seen 15 locals (utilizing artic units) carry air south of Claremont or 169 at any point of the day. in general, I'm not saying my word letalone anyone else's is the holy word of God so to speak, but both situations could've been/should be handled better than the current level of effort currently presented. the logical conclusion I've come to is that they're absolutely rushing this redesign. and it's really sad, because as someone pointed out, this is a unique opportunity to start with a blank canvas & mold a network based on current conditions.

i can see your (and his) point (after re-reading). can't say i ever fully was on board with sending limiteds to west harlem (always felt limiteds should've gotten a Hub short-sign) yet as has been highlighted, they could've had locals alternate between the hub & 12 avenue. but, again i stand by my original premise, it really doesn't matter which branch serves two-five and the bx (3rd Avenue) it's all shite during the day. I've never seen bx15's in or out of Manhattan not being utilized or empty (carrying air) as opposed to the local 15's along 3rd Avenue. idk if that's a testament to the 41 on webster, but i do know that people will take the m15 or M101/103 Uptown to catch the bx15 (Bellevue hospital/30th street intake shelter employees for example) i feel for those people who may have to endure a 3 legged trip if they refuse to take the train into the bronx from east harlem for example. i can't subscribe to the theory of maintaining the bx15 as is (regardless of limiteds or locals into harlem) at decreased headways. i guess because of the history of the Bx15 and the train, that Morrisania & Melrose are conjoined to Harlem. i know several residents, elderly or otherwise, that use the 15 for the ebt office, social security, WIC, etc. and those services are provided in Harlem, which, according to them (believe it or not) is more accessible to them by using the 15 as opposed to othe parts of the bronx. so I'm somewhat conflicted. I'm not going to say increase headway aka throw a gang of buses at the problem & hope the problem resolves itself and I'm not convinced about decreasing headway for a route to/from the Hub to 12 avenue either because of the gaping hole in service due to the M101 issues & the elimination of 125th Street service from the m100. damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm gonna take the path of least resistance in my mind which is to say that the very first thing that needs to be hashed out is what can be done to ease the ever-existing traffic situation regarding the on-ramp to the triboro bridge. that's where the problem stems from. it's not about how many bus lines traverse 125th Street or double parking along one two-five (which doesn't help matters) or how many people take the Bx15 (or Bx19) into the bronx as a consequence of the IRT lines ( ) being overcrowded.. i don't have a solution nor did i ever claim to, but what's currently in place sucks and what's proposed will suck even more. to your second point: i agree wholeheartedly. what management is banking on is that the M125 will somehow be enticing to m101 customers who are pissed off by late/no-show m101's and enticing to m15 (second avenue) customers coming from the west side. this is what they've been hoping for from the m100 all these years, and what's been happening? westbound/Uptown 100's are SRO by the time we (KB b/o's) bend the corner on Amsterdam. eastbound, we carry air. what's going to happen is: 1) people are still gonna be stuck waiting for m101's (which will be more packed due to savvy m100 customers catching the 101 at 161 Street or 135 Street) 2) more people will try to farebeat on (or board) the SBS m60 (if there's room) to get from Amsterdam to second (and all points in between) 3) the M125 will be a distinct afterthought for x-town travel, anyway.. it'll only "attract" bronx passengers as those buses will more than likely be SRO by Lenox. those car services are gonna collect bank on two-five, little do they know. so basically, management has figured out a way to make a bad situation slightly worse.

because management doesn't want that going on in that area anymore (harlem was & has consistently been hostile to bus depots due to air quality/asthma, and you can't blame the community for feeling that way) also, the hostility comes from the unwillingness to have buses parked on the street, which is what it would take to house that many buses at MV. just because something happened once upon a time doesn't mean that it's a practice that is practical in today's climate (especially with the gentrification of harlem) or that it's a practice that should continue or won't go unopposed. Yukon Depot used to house upwards of 300 buses, Castleton used to house 300 buses (also in a residential area), so did East NY & Flatbush... is that really practical/ideal in a residential community? no, it's not way too many things can go wrong. when you talk about 100 street, two-six, OF, Amsterdam & MV, please take into consideration that all of these yards are directly surrounded by vocal Harlem residential communities that despise the existence of said depots in the first place, so why make more problems for themselves (from a managements perspective) both 100 street & OF's rebuilds involved strict rules (from the DOB) regarding all depot operations beings internal (inside the depot) so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Manhattanville also takes a page from that book as much as possible.

eny is out for the museum buses. east ny cmf has a bus company division (those employees there are TWU Local 100 & belong to the TWU collective of bus company yards) as far as GA CMF: there's too much work in & out of that place to house museum buses (unless they create a satellite yard(s) a la east ny (havens, williams)) as far as Amsterdam is concerned: if that place took on artics, it'd be another Hunnit Street (3 lines max, depending on the run count) if there were 40 footers, 3-5 lines depending on the run count. regardless the south bronx & upper Manhattan is a mess depot wise.

bro, personally, i wouldn't want WF to have that line/long ass deadhead either (i look at several lines in WF having to have RIDICULOUS run ons/run offs, but only as a consequence of walnut depot no longer being available... but that's another convo for another time) but what other depot option is there if they're "dead set" on running artics on the m125 (which I'm not totally convinced of by the way, but i lend myself believe as a plausible reality knowing this union)? Quill for f***s sake? to be honest, I'm actually beginning to turn back to MV. I'm starting not to believe that they'll run artics at 8 minute headways on 125th Street of all places... that makes no sense. i can see 40 footers which would open up the possibility of MV. I'm almost to the point of wait & see to be honest. also, MV would have to surrender more than just the 106 to take on a line with 8 minute headways thru most of the day, plus, there are no straight 106 only paddles... all are intertwined with the 96 (if I'm not mistaken, at least that's how it was at 100 street when i was there and the 96/106 was there) as far as the m125 is concerned, my opinion as someone pointed out, is that this can't end well (another bus route ending at the congested Hub) and it's a glorified subway shuttle route into the bronx (having done the local/express shuttles, b/o's know what it is)

😂🤣 hey, i never said i agreed with this plan, endorsed it or said that this was the absolute best option. i understand the premise and all i was doing was highlighting the point of the conversation. personally, i agree with you 100% the m125 won't change ANYTHING. one two-five is STILL going to be a parking lot regardless if they run that bus at 8 minute headways with artics or shorties. the m125 is not solving the true issue on 125th Street.

😂🤣😂🤣 lord have his mercy... if they made one two-five into a bus only thru street, Harlem would be finished. 126 street (westbound one-way) & 124/122 steet (eastbound) would thusly become parking lots toward & away from the triboro bridge. traffic as far south as 116 Street would be f***ed.

thank you. homie missed the entire point of the convo. this discussion has nothing to do with providing bronx/3rd Avenue service. it's about bronx passengers being provided better service (or specified service/treatment) to be able to get in & out of Harlem WITHOUT the bronx/3rd Avenue corridor being adversely affected. 1) M125 at KB is too much of a deadhead to either side. i don't see that happening at all. tbh, i initially thought MV, yet as someone pointed out, management would more than likely to make the runs on the m125 artic runs to maintain continuity, which would mean WF would be the preferred depot of choice. hunnit street is out, as well as OF (hale) 2) personally, i wouldn't like that interline (bx15/M125) it'd basically be like that bx41/39 interline garbage at nite... except during broad daylight. i can't imagine that paddle. I'd be thoroughly disgusted.

the proposed M125 will only exist as a direct result of how dismal bx15 limited service is in the bronx as a result of the parking lot shitshow that is 125 street. if they had their way, there would be no "125 street x-town". for management, the KB locals are doing way too much work because the WF limiteds can't get into & out of harlem

I've been saying that for YEARS, going back to when they first proposed part time bus operators for spring creek depot... at the expense of bus company or their express runs, TA/OA local service won't be improved. if they (management) has their way, we're all gonna get screwed. sad to say (and not to sound self serving/egotistical) but it's nice to see people are finally on board and realizing management doesn't care about or respect their customer base letalone the employees

i beg the question, where exactly would it be split as to not adversely affect riders across southern blvd, letalone 145 street? i agree that they could've possibly done something to better remedy the 19, but the fact that nothing was done means (in my mind) no innovative ideas were proposed.

AMEN. and within TWU especially, there tends to be this attitude of IDGAF unless it directly affects me/that's their problem over there... hope they figure it out. there definitely needs to be more unity within this union, regardless of what side your on, because what's happening in bus company is only the testing grounds for how they're gonna come after us (TA/OA, RTO, etc) I'm sure as hell paying attention these days, and i personally appreciate seeing passenger advocacy groups grasping the mindset that these proposed cuts adversely affect us equally.

I don't want assume, but was that for Bus Company TWU? because i can definitely sympathize if they take that route, seeing as the Bronx & Queens redesigns drastically affect express runs at all 5 of their yards, especially the bx depots (if there's ever been a time when the possibility of Yonkers depot closing could even be a reality would be now if things go the way management wants)

One Hundred Forty six Street Depot. OF is the official internal abbreviation for Mother Clara Hale Depot in DOB

to be honest, I'd hope so. i personally haven't seen every unit, which is why I mentioned those 2.

6242 & 6240 also.

i can't understand the recent "obsession" with attempts to connect kings plaza to Brighton or Manhattan beach. the eastern Europeans in those areas look down on kings plaza (and a certain demographic of individuals that frequent kp) so there's absolutely no desire (or demand) to take mass transit to that mall. i really believe people just look at maps & attempt to design lines because it would look "cool" to have a bus line run on such and such street.

i realize this may be out of the realm of possibility, and far be it from me to request anything, but personally i would prefer picture or video verification before validating any new unit numbers into this system. unverified info is annoying, and I'm not buying the majority of reports unless i see a depot logo slapped over a quality control sticker and a farebox in place with the unit running in revenue service. as it's been stated time & time again, with every new delivery, just because a unit is at a particular depot, it doesn't necessarily mean said unit will see revenue service from that yard.

the reason why transit cares so much is because that city blank check takeover policy will eventually run it's course (merging of Bus Company into TA/OA) and also along the same lines, due to the eventual merger, transit is looking to slash the workforce. no better way to eventually get rid of bus operators by taking away routes/runs leaving no work to be performed. express operators/depots (CP, EC, YO, etc) will suffer great casualties on both sides of the coin.

understood. at least body-wise is what i was attesting to re: the 60/61xx's. I'm not surprised they've been in the shop, assuming it's shocks/struts. I've definitely seen more 53xx's as you've stated.

ALL of those LGA 60xx's will need work, without a doubt. the JFK 60/61xx's however are damn-near pristine

people said the same thing about church avenue... if nypd traffic actually enforced double parking re: truck deliveries, that would possibly help... but all in all my general point was that there are several lines in Brooklyn that will/should be artic conversion well before a second JG line gets it, and technically it's not possible for another artic JG line... maybe down the road, but my intent wasn't to conjure up a fantasy thread

can't argue that... the 8 as well, but as i said, off the top of my head, those 2 lines were the first that came to mind. when I was growing up, the 8 ran out of Ulmer Park (and later, ENY)... regardless of how long it's been, i still forget at times that the 8 runs out of JG (it's still weird to me)

yeah with the headways on the 67, i wouldn't presume it being artic converted anytime soon... there are 2 other Gleason lines off the top of my head that could push that argument (the 68 or 63) but i highly doubt there are enough artics in that yard for the 35, another line & spares for both

the assumption is that the Bus Co. artics will remain in local wrap because between JFK/Far Rock, LaGuardia & Baisley Park depots, there are only 2 sbs lines (52/53) and it'd be kinda pointless to have any of the artics dedicated to solely sbs service when it'd be significantly easier to mileage swap buses between said depots for all their artic lines (Q10/52/53/111/113/114 or any other line they choose to use them on, like the Q70 or Q7, etc) seeing as (or assuming that) these units will not be transferred/swapped with NYCTA/MaBSTOA units