KK 6 Ave Local

The best part about this change is that R160s are back on the ... Well not really

11 minutes ago, Jova42R said:

Good idea. as @bobtehpanda pointed out, it wouldn't be feasible to have it in the highway median.

So, I edited the map:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1j9orLSQvatWLmff-bWbUMxZMxLJHlW1H&usp=sharing

• 2 lines:
  • (X) Whitestone-College Point Local / Main St Local
  • (Y) Bayside Local / Main St Local
• Fleet:
  • Siemens S70.

@KK 6 Ave Local thoughts on the stations?

 

 

I like this idea. North parts of Queens could be well served with light rail. Only a short  extension and Astoria - LIE line would really be needed for heavy rail at this point in time and that can just be an  /  extension.

3 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Here's my proposal for a Whitestone Line:

• SERVICE PATTERN
  • During the off-peak and weekends, it is:
    • 15TPH  to Flushing
    • 15TPH  to Whitestone
  • During the peak, it is:
    • 10TPH  to Flushing
    • 10TPH  to Whitestone
    • 5TPH  to Whitestone
    • 5TPH  to Flushing
  • During the late nights, it is:
    • 12TPH  to Flushing
    • 10TPH  Flushing to Whitestone (turquoise )
• ROUTE
  • https://drive.google.com/open?id=1j9orLSQvatWLmff-bWbUMxZMxLJHlW1H&usp=sharing
• FLEET
  • R188s from the
• STATION ALIGNMENTS
  • Flushing-Main St
    • made a 5-track station, outer 2 tracks are for s and Whitestone s
  • Northern Blvd
    • tunnel, 2 tracks, island platform
  • Latimer Pl
    • tunnel, 2 tracks, island platform
  • Linden Pl
    • tunnel, 2 tracks, island platform
    • ENTERS I-678 MEDIAN JUST AFTER LINDEN PL
  • 25 Av
    • median of I-678, 2 tracks, island platform
  • 20 Av
    • median of I-678, 2 tracks, island platform
  • 14 Av
    • median of I-678, 2 tracks, island platform
  • Whitestone-9 Av
    • median of I-678, 3 tracks, island platforms

Thoughts @KK 6 Ave Local @LaGuardia Link N Tra @mrsman @WillF40PH @Mnrr6131?

 

 

I'd have this as a light rail and then after Flushing it would continue down Main St to Jamaica.

1 minute ago, EvilMonologue said:

Then what service stays on Fulton?

Could be SAS could be Broadway

Northern Queens Trunk Line

The Northern Queens trunk line would be a northern counterpart to the Queens Boulevard Line. While that line would carry 8th and 6th Ave trains, the North Queens line would carry Broadway and Second Ave trains.

Broadway  trains would be extended past Astoria to LaGuardia and Mets Willets Point. (U) would go via 63rd Street and Sunnyside, then to Northern Blvd until Mets Willets Point. At this station the  would take the local 2 tracks and (U)  express until 162nd Street via Northern again where locals would terminate. (U)  would then run to Clearview Expy.

7 hours ago, EvilMonologue said:

The Nassau line definitely needs to be looked at in a critical way, especially given the popularity of the  (look at that it only took me 20 posts to figure that out haha). Sending the Brown  to Bay Ridge isn't really that much more valuable just because people still ultimately want to go to Midtown, and this is just an inherent flaw with the Nassau line. 

In the medium term (hopefully) maybe you could do it this way. The  and  take over the  and  in Brooklyn and Queens once the southern section of the 2 av (with provisions for 4 tracks) replaces  and  service on the Manhattan Bridge (under a de-interlining scheme). Stop consolidation should occur along today's line, also making sure to combine Hewes and Lorimer stations for a better transfer with the . A 3rd track connecting to Cypress Hills station and platform extensions should be done as well. The Manhattan portion of the  is now a downtown shuttle.

In the long term (again hopefully but realistically never), this is what I'd like to see. Start the Utica av line as a  extension, but with the intention of shaving back platforms for eventual B Division conversion. The line would go first from Av U to the . And then once it was converted, extended to the  and , then to the (at this point)  and , and as far as the  and the  eventually. The goal would be to have a line with an obvious connection to the  and  and 2 av, you'd just need to build the tunnel. When the other 2 tracks for 2 av are built, they would take over the  south of the Bowery station. To have the  and  connect to the Utica av line, introduce a new 5 av line which would go over the Williamsburg Bridge and would go to Middle Village and Jamaica on today's  and  lines. 

Breaking up the Nassau line, in the long term, is probably the best way to increase ridership along the corridor to provide Midtown access. In the medium term this can be done by replacing  and  service with  and  but in the long term, we'd hope to see the number of services in the outer boroughs increase with the number of services in Manhattan. Sending the  and  down Utica av and the  and  up 5 av might be the long term solution to that.

I have a similar plan with Fulton service replacing the Jamaica Line past Bway Junction, then branches to Utica Ave and a Metropolitan Ave extension to the LIE which would be the  on utica and  on LIE

To effectively create expansion in Queens, there are a few corridors I'm interested in:

Northern Blvd: Good relief for the , Astoria Line extension could be a more cost-effective option, and Port Washington Branch could be recaptured

LIE: Effective for central Queens, very necessary

Jewel Ave: could be a short QBL extension

Union Tpke: Too close to  but could connect with something else

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Not even close. The keyword is "or".

Option A - to Laurelton. Preferably, to Green Acres if you can get Nassau to agree to it, since a mall is a more logical transit hub.

• 15TPH of 10-car, 60 ft cars to Laurelton.
• All LIRR service moves to St. Albans branch. Third track is built to accommodate peak demand.

Option B - NYCT takeover of inner LIRR services. Preferred.

• Long Beach, Far Rockaway, and West Hempstead branches in the south, and Port Washington, Rockaway Beach, and Hempstead in the north are taken over by NYCT as the C Division.
• The C Division operates trains similar in size to the LIRR (12 car, 85 ft trains), but interior and door layout are more similar to that of a subway car.
• To increase core capacity into Manhattan, a tunnel is built linking East Side Access to Atlantic. Together with East Side Access, this basically provides Queens, Brooklyn, and western Nassau with essentially 48TPH of services into Manhattan. (24TPH to Downtown via Midtown, 24TPH to Midtown via downtown)

Either scenario features a yard in the current Railroad Park.

Seems you can tie in a regional rail to that involving NJT and MNRR.

2 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Northern connects to a 79 St Tunnel, then connect to a 2 Av line, and a 2 track tunnel to Riverside South, serving the . The  then connects to a new Ditmars Line as a local.

Riverside South is in the West Side of Manhattan right?  could also be that service. I'm guessing your  terminates at 61st to connect with the proposed Metro North line, so that should be a station.

My Ditmars Express () goes there. A  would be ok, though.

Yes 100%!

Maybe run the  via Lower Montauk?

LIE is better for Central Queens. A good connection for Williamsburg residents and people along QBL would use it.

Yes 100%!

My  (Northern Local) goes to Fresh Meadows via 73 Av, which would maybe tie in with an  extension.

My Ditmars Line serves the airport, but a midtown-airport link would be nice.

Yup 100%!

No. IMO, it should run to South Brooklyn.

I said this with other SAS lines that could come from Northern/LIE/Bypass.

responses in red

A complete plan for Queens expansion

Northern Blvd could just be a 3-track extension of the  or SAS. 3 tracks to Main St, 2 to Francis Lewis Blvd

 extension to Whitestone

New light rail from Flushing/Main St  - Sutphin Blvd 

SAS would replace  in South Brooklyn rerouting them to Williamsburg.  would run to Metropolitan Ave,  would run to Broadway Junction

 would be extended from Metropolitan Ave to Utopia Pkway via LIE. North of the Bypass SAS would connect to it.

 extension to Rosedale

 extension to Springfield Blvd

 extension to LGA

 extension to Hollis

Three tracks on all of Jamaica Line, so <J> service would replace the  

 would run past Hanover Square to the Atlantic Branch and Jamaica

On 3/17/2020 at 2:00 PM, RR503 said:

Now, for some fun. I finally made maps of my various deinterlining ideas. 

Today's service 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HHNa2XqlrDKPIKUzpTJcyQbSndtbs1cM

What I'd do without spending any capital $$$

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yZcwJfjcO1tfYuttqW2lUuatAFvIaxuz

What I'd do with capital $$$

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15z4fvc1cfxxtY_ZhUbFex3jxgT0dt3lm

The general principles here are to minimize merges/maximize capacity while trying to preserve a maximum of important connectivity (so we deinterline CPW, but not Essex or Bergen), and on the no-$$$ map to try to jump for deinterlinings that can largely be achieved through low-effort swaps, ie , , . Nothing on here will be all that unfamiliar to those of you who've been reading my ramblings for a while, but I thought it'd be nice to see it all on one map. 

Late repsonse but the next question here is how to properly tie SAS into it, and other service expansions.

Wasn't there something the MTA did about a new line in Queens or something? There was an image IIRC?

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

R46's are starting to drop like flies too, one broke down on the 2 days ago. they're overused that's the issue, and it's worse now because they're also on the and lines 24/7 as well vs. Just the not counting the and rockaway-lefferts shuttles. 

 

they're trying to get the R32's off the road Temporary because of the Virus and social distancing but its hard to do that when you have R46's dropping like flies and R179's always in the barn with issues. That's why there's only 2 running instead of 4 or more.

 

it's obvious that the current formula isn't working out as well.

 

A LOT of Pitkin Yard's R46's always have dead motors as well, that's why the has the highest spare factor.

 

had everything was left to normal and the R46's stayed at jamaica, This process would have been easier even though they'll still need a few R32's to cover service.

Agreed. Would it have been a good idea to leave QBL CBTC to a post- R46 time? Just leave the R32s to the  and  and we would be fine

1 minute ago, R32-DTrain said:

On a different topic, how much would a extension to 261 St cost? Would it be wanted?

@KK 6 Ave Local @Around the Horn @Jova42R Thoughts?

I don't think the ridership would be anywhere near high enough. I've been there and it's probably just best to take the 

1 hour ago, Jova42R said:

Your  is my (Y), so I agree with that.

Your (P): Change it so that the end in Queens is Fresh Meadows, and truncate it to Hanover Sq. (That’s my ) This is via 79 St Tunnel, correct?

I’d say cut your . Change it to Bayside - Astoria Blvd Local - Randalls Island - 2 Av/125 St

Your (Y) would carry air. Just use the  to

 should cross at 79th Tunnel then 2 Av/125 St

 should be a Bronx Crosstown (Throgs Neck-Highbridge, then down to Harlem), IMO. If we do  via 2nd, then maybe have  to Gun Hill and  to Throgs Neck.

Also, add an  Whitestone - Astoria Bl Exp - 2 Av Exp.

2 Av is quadruple-tracked, correct?

Below 72nd it's 4 tracks. My Northern Blvd is basically your Astoria Blvd carrying the SAS services.

My reasoning behind keeping SAS to Northern/79th is that an  or  (deinterlining) extension can be the Astoria Blvd service, just to Flushing. Gets you to Manhattan and the M60.

Later on a shuttle between LaGuardia and 125/Lex  can be constructed. Preferably an Airtrain.

Northern Blvd is really the only corridor where maximum relief for the  can be put into effect. Bypass probably isn't worth it if QBL gets CBTC + deinterlining + more accessible LIRR as someone said on the proposals thread.  

100% on the  to Throgs Neck. Could also be a light rail.

LIE is another good corridor, potentially connecting to a South 4th Street Subway. I'll think about this.

 service is best used as a supplementary local on Northern, but it would probably not get high ridership so i'll cut it to Sunnyside so it can at least connect.  will be the primary local.

7 minutes ago, Jova42R said:

Tunnel at 125th?

Oh you only said a rail crossing. My bad

5 minutes ago, Jova42R said:

For Northern Queens:

Make a rail crossing at Randalls Island, and a tunnel at 79th. Connect 79th to Northern and Randalls to Ditmars.  extension to 125th/Bway via 21 St and 79 St Tun/2 Av/125 St.

 becomes the Northern Line

 becomes the Ditmars Exp

 becomes the Ditmars Local

 starts at 61st/Freedom and goes up the West Side to 79th, then via 79th crosstown to 79th Tunnel, then up 21st to Ditmars.

Ditmars Line ends in Flushing. The  goes to Bayside. The  goes to Whitestone. The  goes to Fresh Meadows (from Northern).  goes to Auburndale.

Mid-Queens:

Reactivate RBB via SUBWAY.  from JFK, then up Junction Bl to Northern, then Northern Exp to 79th Tunnel, then via the .

Reactivate Lower Montauk PARTIALLY:

E. Williamsburg to Jamaica Light Rail via Bushwick Branch and Lower Montauk. Starts at Montrose Av .

TriboroRX:

Bay Ridge to Port Morris, then split to Co-Op City and Riverdale. Runs DMUs.

 SE Queens Line. Laurelton - St Albans - S. Jamaica - Jamaica - Corona - joins , but terminates at Hanover Sq instead of 61st.

 

That’s roughly my plan.

thoughts @KK 6 Ave Local?

I probably wouldn't prefer 2 tunnels, but the  should be a straight shot up 21st and then cross the tunnel at 125th.

New service in Brooklyn should mostly be used for under-capacity or lines in need of improvement, like Fulton or Jamaica

First the  should be used for an Atlantic Ave Superexpress service. Another service can be used for the Fulton Local service. This could also be something on Broadway such as  or . Long term both the  would run here for service to Jamaica and Euclid Ave, but for the first part just Euclid. The  would get a third track past Broadway Junction so instead of  service  <J> service could run. Past Broadway Junction would later be replaced with either   or  and west of Broadway Junction  would be accompanied with  or  trains because SAS service would now run on the West End/Brighton Lines.

Service would be as follows:

 To Jamaica Center via Atlantic Branch

 To Euclid Ave via Fulton Local

 To Jamaica Center via Fulton Local and Jamaica Line east of broadway Junction

 To Broadway Junction

 To Broadway Junction

 To Metropolitan Ave

(U)  To Coney Island or Brighton Beach

Heard something somewhere about weekend service being operated on the subway system at all times due to you-know-what. Not sure if they are or aren't, haven't bothered to check. They should probably just operate late night service

What do you think would be the best service patterns and alignments/expansions for Queens?

23 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Here's a new plan

 Bway 125 Street - 9 Ave/Bay Parkway  via 2nd Ave, Manhattan Bridge, West End

(P) College Point - Euclid Ave  via Northern Blvd Lcl, 2nd Ave, Fulton Street Lcl

 Bell Blvd - Atlantic Av via Northern Blvd Exp, 2nd Ave, Jamaica Line, Canarsie 

(Y) Jamaica/179th Street  - Lefferts Blvd via Hillside, Bypass, 2nd Ave, Fulton Street Exp

 Flushing Main Street  - Church Ave via Northern Blvd Local, Crosstown

 Gun Hill Rd - Coney Island via 3rd Ave, rest of  route

That was a large scale plan, here I'll make it a bit less expensive

SAS Lines:

 Bway 125th Street - Bay Parkway  Note this is a temporary terminal. The  could also run via the Atlantic Branch to Jamaica Center and Cambria Heights.

 Jamaica 179th Street - Atlantic Ave  via Bypass and Jamaica Line

(Y) Francis Lewis Blvd - Jackson Heights via Astoria Line extension, Jamaica Line, Myrtle Line extension

 extended to Gun Hill Rd

Here's a new plan

 Bway 125 Street - 9 Ave/Bay Parkway  via 2nd Ave, Manhattan Bridge, West End

(P) College Point - Euclid Ave  via Northern Blvd Lcl, 2nd Ave, Fulton Street Lcl

 Bell Blvd - Atlantic Av via Northern Blvd Exp, 2nd Ave, Jamaica Line, Canarsie 

(Y) Jamaica/179th Street  - Lefferts Blvd via Hillside, Bypass, 2nd Ave, Fulton Street Exp

 Flushing Main Street  - Church Ave via Northern Blvd Local, Crosstown

 Gun Hill Rd - Coney Island via 3rd Ave, rest of  route

@Jova42R I would rather have  service via bypass so that we would have QBL and  relief lines, the  and  respectively. Because I wanna keep things 2 tracked past the  junction, I'd route  service via the 63rd Street tunnel until a 79th Street tunnel can be made. Northern Blvd subway would be 3 tracks to Flushing for peak  service, 2 to College Point. Provisions for a 4th track included.

So here would be the full idea:

 from Fordham Road - Coney Island

 from 125th/Bway - 2nd ave express - a southern terminal

 from College Point - 79th - 2nd ave local - a southern terminal

 from Laurelton - 79th - 2nd ave local - a southern terminal

 from Flushing Main Street - Church Ave

Any good reliable sources for R32 retirements? Wikipedia says there's 58 in service currently but in the past I was told not to use it.

I think most SAS service north should be sent to Queens, because only  service on 3rd Ave to Fordham Road is really needed right now, combined with  to Broadway/125th Street

So for Queens I propose a 4-track Northern Blvd trunk line. Basically the QBL's northern counterpart. It would carry (U) and  for Second Avenue from a 79th Street tunnel, and   possibly   for local service. It would carry 4 tracks from Sunnyside to Flushing-Main Street , then 2 tracks to College Point.  service and potentially extended  service could run to Bayside.

For bypass service I'd rather just divert the