East New York

10 hours ago, limitednyc said:

does anyone know how meny artics will be needed from the bx 6 conversion?

The 16 that they have had for a while now.

47 minutes ago, MHV184 said:

Sorry to be a bit of bother so what you said yesterday about Manhattanville getting 1 or 2 NF withing the next 10 months do you mean XD40?

They could get either for the purpose of familiarization and or evaluation at the depot. Since we already own 10 (6 pending delivery) XDE40’s, it could be one of those as well. Once the hybrids come in 2020 you can almost bet MV will get some. Whatever they are. 

On 8/10/2018 at 3:47 PM, MysteriousBtrain said:

 Quotinga certain section on mobile with this big post was annoying, but what happened to the 10 (diesel electric?) artic buses for the M14 SBS?

For now that is on hold in favor of the 15 electric artics. I’m not sure what happened to them getting both. Either way, I don’t see either of them being available for M14SBS by launch date.

19 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Why is Manhattanville getting the new Nova LFS? I thought the MTA was trying to uniform the fleet. Would’ve been better to give Yukon and Castleton the new Novas to get all the Orions off the island, and give Manhattanville whatever 4000s/7000s they need since they already have Orions...

That would’ve been smart since whatever they’re getting now I would assume is temporary until the next batch of hybrids come in. 

Edit: Same thing for QV...there’s enough Orions on Staten Island to replace both QV and Manhattanvilles batches of the first gen hybrids. 

Edit 2: I just checked the roster, Staten Island has exactly 71 MCI express buses, and UP has 71 Prevost. Why not just give UP all the MCIs and let Staten Island be all Prevost? Fleet would balance out better since UP would have 2013 models as well. They can easily uniform the fleet if they wanted to. 

This isn’t what MTA wants to do. You all ask a lot of why questions that can’t be answered here. MTA places buses where they see the need based on logistics, and maintenance. Not only that, there are 251 buses on this order and the assignments aren’t complete. I’ve also said before a couple times that when uniformity comes into play location and logistics do as well. I also said to expect the fleet to cross over into other boroughs now several times. This shouldn’t really be a surprise. MV needs new buses now and they aren’t on the XD list. We don’t have hybrids, and won’t have any until  so this should be a no-brainer

Since Manhattan already has LFS at Quill, and LFSA’s everywhere in the borough this already is a uniform fleet. Manhattan has no Xcelsior standards yet. 

As far as moving all the MCI’s to UP, that is just ridiculous actually. For one, the mileage comes into factor, for 2 you are replacing newer buses with older buses which customers will protest about on those routes. How is that fair to customers? How does that do anything other than increase maintenance costs, and decrease the reliability of the routes out of UP? The MCI’s are on their way out the door. 

So no, your logic would not work.

14 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

It’s gonna be interesting when Novas come to MV, be a direct competition between who’s Novas or NFs are faster between MV & MQ

14 hours ago, MHV184 said:

Im confused is it NF XD40 or NF XDE40?

Why are you confused? We don’t have any XDE40’s pending delivery.....

8 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So because the 275-bus order for hybrid buses could be split order, I can expect some Nova LFS HEV buses to roam the streets of NYC in a few years. Has Nova been qualified to build alternative fuel buses for the MTA, given that the recent alternative fuels bus orders have been built by New Flyer (XN40, XN60, XDE40, XE40), and the fact that they weren't tested due to pricing issues?

No you can not expect anything. Please stop assuming and speculating. We don’t know which that that order will go and frankly we are still more than a year away from a hybrid award and won’t know assignments until 2020.  Just wait, and let’s deal with what we have on the table right now.

Nova has been qualified, along with New Flyer to build any standard bust after the 90 Test Bus Program was complete nearly a decade ago. It’s not based on the fuel, systems or components. It’s based on the bus platform itself. That made Nova automatically qualified to build CNG, Hybrid, and electric buses for MTA.

All buses still have to be evaluated and tested no matter what system they have, and no matter what manufacture it is. Also note that just because it’s qualified, does not mean it will past an evaluation. In the case of the above, Nova did not meet MTA’s requirements for each model at the time. Pricing was basically the only factor for the hybrids and electrics. MTA felt the CNG model didn’t have a large enough presence for MTA to evaluate effectively.

Let’s clear some stuff up. We haven’t got into the discussion yet, because I have been a bit busy, but the Hybrid order is no longer certain to be New Flyer. 

Nova actually has a chance to get in and it may end up being a split award. The only reason MTA didn’t test Nova Hybrids is because of the price point. 

9500-9509 are test buses for the Hybrid systems. Nova has always had a chance, but they have to make the offer and delivery timeline comparable to that of New Flyer as MTA needed buses faster than not. 

If Nova has a pricing point similar to New Flyer this time around, there is now a great chance that we will get hybrids from both companies. The only question will be which system. Allison or BAE. 

So for everyone who is asking, that is why Novas are over there, and also because they need buses for maintenance rotation. Let’s also not forget that they have the original hybrids which require a bit more maintenance, and are now up for retirement. 

I would also expect to see a New Flyer or two head over to MV within the next 10 months as well. 

If the award is split, they are going to have to decide what goes where. Since MV doesn’t have either Nova or New Flyer buses, they are a great candidate for Nova hybrids. 

The last point everyone keeps forgetting (and I have mentioned several times) is hybrids are being replaced by Diesels, electrics, and new hybrids down the line. In the meanwhile the ones that are up for retirement have to be replaced with diesels. There are too many hybrids and the new ones won’t be in for quite a while. Some assignments will definitely change when the hybrids and electrics come in. 

21 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

I believe on page II-26 through page II-28. On page II-28 it says "MTA Bus: expenses increase on average by $1 million annually from 2018 to 2021. These changes mostly reflect costs associated with the articulated bus loan program with NYCT used to service SBS routes, and inflationary adjustments."

Got it. The wording had me confused. Didn’t know they started calling it a “Program.” That would suggest it’s a regular thing. But yes MTA Bus has to pay NYCT for the use of the buses because they are brand new, and NYCT will not get the full use-per-dollar out of them because of this.

5 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

According the the preliminary budget for 2019-2022 it says "The projected 2020 decrease is mainly driven by the following: NYCT ($35 million), reflecting lower Subway and Bus Action Plans requirements; MTA Bus ($10 million), mostly due to the end of the Articulated Bus program"

Within the document of this http://web.mta.info/news/pdf/MTA-2019-Prelim-Budget-July-Financial-Plan-2019-2022-Vol2.pdf I looked into further and found out there were terminating the loan program. Maybe because MTA bus and NYCT are merging and thats why. 

Can you direct me to the page please? I need to see the language used. MTAB is leasing them from NYCT so I’m not understanding the meaning of “program.” 

Buses will always be loaned and borrowed. I think you are confusing a current unique situation with something that has always occurred. I.e. NYCT leaning and transferring buses to BC.

3733 pending transfer back to LG but still at CP.

Also note the first page title post of Fleet and Depots has received a major update from top to bottom with more coming soon. Please review it thoroughly as many questions being asked can be found there. Things have changed, so please take note. We will discuss things further in that thread.

Included in the update is the pending award schedule for all upcoming bus orders as well.

733 unwrapped from SBS.

7700, 7712, 7737, 7748, and 7777 retired.

Pilot 5442 Nova to MQ

1025, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033 to WF

7662 to FB

3733 LG to CP 

On 8/5/2018 at 10:15 PM, Brillant93 said:

Seems like the Q53 is having overcrowding trouble to and from the beach. 

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/08/05/eyes-on-the-street-on-sunday-the-rockaway-bound-sbs-is-really-crowded/

This is every summer to all beach destinations. Nothing new.

On 8/6/2018 at 6:57 AM, Brillant93 said:

Ridership on the B41 also rose up as well during the summer. I was coming from the gym and the bus was packed with people going to the junction to catch the Q35 to Riss beach. A lot of those transplants like going there. This was on a Sunday. I think the mta needs to send more buses for this time of year. 

Same here, and besides that the B41 is always packed no matter what time of year it is.

On 8/6/2018 at 4:58 PM, Brillant93 said:

I think that’s why they’re ordering about 53 artics. The extra 10 I guess will go for extra runs. But being how the mta is terminating the bus loan program I don’t see how an extra set of 10 buses would help for the summer months. 

Ending the bus loan program??? First of all there is no such thing. Buses are loaned and borrowed as needed as they always have been. Once the radio and farebox sytems are merged, buses can be loaned at any minute to any depot (TA or Bus Co) on the spot.

On 8/6/2018 at 7:54 PM, VIA 7 AV said:

The RTS’s are producing really bad air pollution. I haven’t ridden one in a while but I was able to smell and taste the air from 5204 while I was in the front boarding today. I def. recommend staying away from RTS’s unless you’re commute on one.

Just for reference, the plural of RTS is RTS'.

This is a general statement that is totally not true of 300 plus buses. What you are referring to is likely being cause by a turbocharger going bad, or a fluid leak of some type. The Orion Hybrids actually burn through turbos faster than the RTS. I also see more of them spitting black smoke than RTS', which is actually rare.  Just saying.....

I own, operate, service, maintain, and ride RTS buses daily.

Key phrase of your post,

 "I haven't ridden one in a while..."

On 8/5/2018 at 11:46 AM, DueceDrives said:

Ill stop by ENY depot sometimes this week at the pick room to see if the sbs82 is up for operators to pick.

Not for a couple more weeks.

33 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

How many standards is Gleason losing? Is it a one for one swap? The board meeting where they announced the B35 artic conversion gave the impression that the standards from the B35 would be used to increase service on the B8 and B63...

I can't remember how many they are loosing, but a swap between artics and standards is never one for one. the ratio is 3:2 (every 3 standards being replaced by 2 artics). Yes there will be increases, however some buses will still be sent to WF to kill off the Orions as JG will have a small surplus.

And contrary to popular belief, weekday service will only be reduced by 1 minute. Night and weekend service will be reduced 2-4 minutes depending on time and day.

On 8/6/2018 at 7:41 PM, Interested Rider said:

The MTA  has had a fixation about using Rogers Avenue even though as ENY operator correctly pointed out, New York Avenue was (and is) a far better option.

New York Avenue has Kings County Hospital which is a major traffic generator as the walk from Rogers Avenue is two long blocks and that is in addition to the additional walking just to reach some of the hospital buildings. I attended the suits presentation at Brooklyn College before the B/44 sbs  was placed in operation and wrote and spoke in favor of a stop at the hospital but like everything else  with the exception of adding two additional bus stops for the B/44 sbs,  my suggestion landed up in the long file.

New York Avenue is definitely not a better option.  As someone who lived in Flatbush on New York Avenue, I posted years ago that a B44+ would not work on NY Ave, and I suggested the implementation of the route on Rodgers, with a B44 Northbound Limited that would continue to run on NY Av. and end at Fulton Street.

On 8/7/2018 at 2:08 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Doesn't mean anything when you miss ridership generators. Straight routes are not always the answer. They could have also looked at routing buses via Atlantic, Bergen or Empire to get from New York Avenue to Bedford/Rogers Avenue, but that's another discussion.

None of that is efficient though. Tons of alternatives were suggested but we here in Brooklyn have a MAJOR problem will double parked cars and dollar cabs and vans. As someone who has personally driven buses on all these streets in question I can tell you it's not as easy as it sounds. 

On 8/7/2018 at 7:07 AM, Interested Rider said:

My point is they have (had) no intention of providing service to Kings County Hospital on the northbound B/44 sbs.

The change could have been (northbound) via Rogers, Linden Boulevard, New York Avenue, Empire Boulevard and back to Rogers Avenue when the route was first implemented.  This would have provided the service to the hospital in the northbound direction but this change did not fit in with their agenda as the northbound route would not be a straight route. How many times h the the TA changed straight routes to provide for detours to schools for example? It is this desire not to deviate once the route is done that is etched in stone by those in the offices that makes me furious as it states quite emphatically to those of us who ride the routes that "that they know everything and we know nothing" so in other words "keep quiet as we will determine what the route will look like".

Unfortunately, it is this type of thinking that is prevalent in all levels of government and in the minds of the political elite today. It is only going to get worse in the future.

This has nothing to do with it being a straight route or anything like that. MTA would rather have the route on New York Avenue, however that is just not efficient and the route would not be reliable at all. 

3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

If you're talking about the Bx6 local route its supposed to convert in January 2019 while the Bx6 sbs was converted directly following the arrival of the buses. But at that time the assignments were different. West Farms was supposed to get their artics for the Bx6 sbs and then the buses were to go to Gleason for the B35 for the fall pick or something. So the Bx6 sbs was always supposed to go straight to artic while the B35 on the other hand wasn't supposed to be converted until late 2018.

Now if the fear is the MTA is just going to change up its mind and convert the Bx6 and leave the B35 as it is then yes it is some concern but thats the MTA. 

 

He was referring to the Select, and I actually answered it in the Moves and transfers, but I will be moving it here eventually.

7 hours ago, Rick44 said:

I guess the question is: Why did the MTA decide to publicly announce the conversion, not only before the Bx6 conversion, but also that it would happen fully in the Fall?

For those that don't know what I meant by MTA publicly announcing, I mean the NYC Transit Committee meeting every month. The 35 was announced two months prior for a Fall implementation, the 6 announced last month with I believe an immediate implementation.

Hopefully, the answer to that will be enough to take this topic back to moves and transfers.

This is like comparing apples to oranges though. These are two situations that are in no way similar, so I guess I'm not sure what the confusion is exactly.

It was publicly announced by MTA because it's now the time for it. We announced it here at NYCTF long before that. The implementation schedule has always been tentatively planned for Fall, with the depot being at full articulated standard by December.

West Farms is already an artic depot so no planning was needed for this route. Gleason is not artic ready so you can't just send 60 footers to the depot. The buses that are there now (at JG) are for clearance, maneuvering, depot redesign, and parking design.  

For West Farms, all that was needed was a simple paddle adjustment, and bus swap. We also announced here last year that the Bx6 would start with standards and after the line was evaluated for artics the next decision could be made. 

Either was this is not a Moves & Transfers discussion. This is a general discussion about a specific fleet and the depots that are in question. So this needs to go back over there to be continued.

1 hour ago, FLX9304 said:

That’s why. If not, then Gleason would be on it. But time has its patience

It's not about Gleason being on it because they are. The schedule has ALWAYS been Winter Pick for B35 articulation with a possibility of a soft launch happening in the fall. The depot will not be completely artic ready until December, and we have discussed this several times actually. It has also been posted on the first page of the Fleet & Depots thread for at least 8 months now. 

When everything is ready, Gleason will be sending XN40's and possibly a few C40LF's to WF, and they will in turn send over the XN60's. The assignment may change a bit.

Many had also been asking what was up with ENY. The schedule has always been Summer Pick 2020 for artic conversion. Reconstruction of the depot does not even begin until January 2019. Right now engineering is in the final design stage for the new layout and rehab of the depot. 

14 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

It's also possible that with XD60s, the LFSs and the XD60s can be in one pool together. Now, as for the XD40, I would wonder if the Bx41 could use rigid SBS buses for greater frequency, as frequency appears to be lacking there.

No that’s not possible for them to be in one pool. The only depots that will have mixed fleets are MaBSTOA Depots for the time being. Quill, Tuskeegee, Gun Hill, and Kingsbridge.

All of the LFSA’s are leaving Flatbush and Hale, as they did Casey Stengel.

And any line can use a rigid bus for increased service. Doesn’t look like TA wants to make an increase tho.

17 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It's just one bus. It's nothing. As I said before, 7351 was unwrapped months before the XD40 order even started.

 

I don't get how one bus taken away from spares can affect an entire line even given these ratios.

17 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I hope this is temporary. If 40 buses are out on the streets and they only have 47 instead of 48, they will have only 7 buses as spares, giving a 17.2% spare ratio instead of FTA mandate of 20% for a spare ratio, and for such a busy line like the B46 SBS, that's a big difference. What were they trying to do with shifting 7663: making haste on the B82 SBS project before Bensonhurst residents and politicians find out about it? Looks like its either that or Flatbush doesn't need additional buses for the summer season.

What difference does it make? Why the big deal about one bus. First of all FB still has several older XD40’s on the line so everything is taken care of.

17 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

FTA  has a mandate for spare vehicles to be around 20% for lines with around 50 or more vehicles.

But in any case, each depot and SBS bus line should have at least a decent spare ratio in case buses break down.

The line does not have 50 buses so this does not apply. Besides there are enough buses citywide to cover service with a good spare factor. If a bus is not available they can run a local bus on an SBS line as they have many times before.

16 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I'm fine with that, as long as if the B46 SBS goes articulated full time, it has at least 32 buses to cover service,

It’s not going fully articulated for the time being and we already discussed this in detail.

WHY is this discussion going on in this  thread!!!!!????????? @JeremiahC99

This is the absolute last time I’m saying take this to Fleet and Depots. I’m not about to sit up and move your discussions everyday because you don’t know how to listen. This is the last time I’m going to say it. 

Next time you will be suspended and all of your posts will have to be approved my a staff member before they will be visible. 

Final warning. 

3 hours ago, Dannyboy876 said:

That bus is still at FB it’s on the B49

3 hours ago, Dannyboy876 said:

This one also is at FB on the B44 local 

They were correct with the reported loans. 5148 and 5171 were in fact on loan to EN. 

Please be careful everyone. Just because you see a bus somewhere one day at a specific time doesn’t mean it never left that depot if you see it again a short time later.

So always keep that in mind. 

48 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Question but will future sbs routes will be a mixed fleet of standard buses and artics in practice? I know the B46 sbs is going to be mixed and currently the Bx6 sbs is sort of mixed as having two standards on the line and the Q53 sbs have used 40 footers to help with over crowding. 

It will be as needed. Whatever the route calls for is what will happen. It’s not a standard thing sand never has been. I will be going over the next 20 pending SBS routes starting this morning.

5 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

The B46 will need at least 35 full time artics plus spares for that to happen. Which could also mean FB would have to get rid of 1 or 2 routes for that to happen in the present day. 

Why would they need to get rid of a route? They would just be replacing standards with artics. And they would only need about 32 artics with spares if they do a standard conversion and increase headways. That will replace the all the standards on the line, and additional spare factor would also be included with the B44+, which would share the fleet. If they increase service then yes about 35 would be needed. But 48 buses would be displaced.

7 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I think the actual number of artic buses for all B46 SBS needs may be 32, and I say this because if the MTA wanted to replace the current 48 XD40s on the B46 SBS, they will probably continue their practice of putting in one artic bus for 1.5 standards, which I find a little ridiculous. What you also need to know is that all 48 buses are not out at the same time roaming up and down Utica Avenue, and I would expect the same thing to happen to the 19 extra artics (I think 10 or so would be used at any given time). Also, I believe FB will have room for 19 more artics without moving any routes. All they have to do is get rid of their RTS buses (good luck with that), replace those with the new buses, and you're set. Since they have around 68 RTSes awaiting retirement, I was expecting this:

• 48 new 2018 SBS buses will come in, knock the 2015 XD40s off the B46 SBS, and retire 48 RTS.
• The 19 additional artics come in to FB, and since 19 artics is equivalent to 28-29 standards (equation for that is 19*1.5), all remaining RTS would leave FB.

17 additional artics. The B44+ needs more than it has now during the school season. 

During normal school season rush hour you can easily have about 40 standards out there at a time. Some in transit, some deadheading, and other on layover or swing. 

9 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

 

The reason why I asked is become some routes across the city may need a mixed need of fleet sizes for different times of the day. I thought maybe the MTA might practice a mixed fleet of sorts for ridership instead of converting a route to artics. Not sure if other agencies across the world does this but it seems like the MTA might practice this in the future. From what i'm seeing. 

It’s not a practice here now. It’s either one or the other. MTA evaluates the route and bases it off the findings. At that point it is decided if the line will be artics or standard. Some lines may start with standard like the Bx6+, B46+, and B82+ for example. When buses become available and the line warrants conversion then it will happen. The 6, 82 and like in the future the 46 will go all artics. 

The only mixed fleet will be the B46, which is not a standard practice. The Bx6 is in conversion. Those last 2 buses are only used during rush hours and weekends for the most part.  

10 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

not that the current  b44 peek + spear need is 32 not the current assignment of 38.  so when they receive the new xd 60's  they will be able to make peek service witch will be 57,  29  or b46sbs  converision but there won't be any spears . 

The school season assignment for peak B44+ service plus spares will be 41. 38 without. The spare factor will be included with the B46+. There are always spares. 

Dude....  What in the hell are you talking about? First off Cuomo doesn’t fund anything. The State of New York and the federal government does. He just allocates funds on behalf of the state.

On another note, This “Cuomo” wrap, as everyone is dubbing is an inaccurate label anyway. MTA has been working on almost everything introduced under him for quite a while. The only thing he has done is speed things up and get more involved.

The new scheme and amenities were introduced on buses that were funded 100% by the FTA. Not the state. The old scheme was dated, and talk of changing it has been years in the making. 

Who put the NYCB titles on the buses is not important either.

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I hope that is the case, because those brands should be off by the time its either 2020 or when this merger of NYCT and MTA Bus is complete.

What are you hoping that’s the case for? I just said what’s happening here. 

It’s only a systems merger coming for right now anyway. The operational merger was complete in 2008. 

For the time being there will still be 2 different divisions. Unless the State of NY takes over funding of MTA Bus, and the unions work out a deal, the divisions will still operate the way they do now. 

18 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Sounds like we're reading the same post. That was a photo inside GA saying the buses were about to transferred. I can tell you 5208 pulled in FP around 16:00 for a run, so I'm assuming the transfer has happened.

Edit: Actually, 5208 went back to GA after that. Sounds like TJ's right.

Correct. They are both back at Grand.

57 minutes ago, Rick44 said:

Not sure if this belongs in Random Thoughts or here, but I might get a better answer here.

Why are some of the new ENY Xcelsiors getting the "New York City Bus" decal? Is that ENY placing on decals or are they being delivered with that on there? 

56 minutes ago, T J Trainman said:

I think they are coming in like that. 

Definitely not coming in like that. The new branding is simply (MTA).

Thats EN putting those on. You know we are a different breed over here in Brooklyn lol. They are the ones who put  Bus a couple 4800's and 7000 E10's.

Someone was bored. 

4 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Please explain to me what that has to do with anything.

Because in my eyes, the less time buses spend going to/from and in depots equates to more reliable service without the need to actually have more buses than already exist.

Bus operators don't exactly NEED to drive back to the depot every time their time is over, you know.

Yeah, but it doesn't work like that. Eventually, which is every day the bus is going to need to go back to the depot.

Less time going to and from a depot does not necessarily equate to more reliable service. In fact it would decrease the reliability of service because buses would breakdown more. There needs to be pre-trip inspections, maintenance checks and preventive maintenance performed. You cant just keep buses out on the road like that. They need to be cleaned and they need to have all systems and fluids checked. 

In terms of electric buses, that will be a different story as you can keep them out a bit longer, however that has to be evaluated and that will take some time. In the meanwhile each manufacturer has a set a maximum mileage or run time that mandates the bus needs to be removed from service at said time for maintenance reasons. If you continue to run any vehicle for long periods like that you are going to develop problems. You are going to have maintenance issues. It is a machine that needs rest, so what he said actually has something to do with everything.

It's also not a good idea to have bus operators doing relief all over the place every day in the middle, or the terminal of every line.

And contrary to what it may seem, you actually will need more buses. You will now need a greater spare factor, and and more relief buses.

With the system we have now, buses are typically out all day anyway, and pull in once. Some not at all. You could pull what you are talking about off in some other cities, but not this one. Especially the way our peek service operates, and the size of the network overall.

So yes sometime bus operators will need to drive back to a depot because the bus may need to be scheduled for maintenance, refueled, or needed by another operator for another run. 

Something else that everyone should note is that 80% of transit agencies, including MTA do not spec fuel gauges on their buses. So running them all day and all night is not feasible either.