R16/R30 Question

[trainfan22 1,782]

How come the R16s only lasted 20 years? Was there something wrong with those cars that they had to be retired so young?

 

And how come the R30s were retired in 1993? they were only 32 years old they could have kept them until t 2002 then replaced them with the R143s. From 1993 until 2002 they had a B div car shortage they should have just kept them.

 

Does anybody know why these cars were retired so young?

[SubwayGuy 2,314]

How come the R16s only lasted 20 years? Was there something wrong with those cars that they had to be retired so young?

 

And how come the R30s were retired in 1993? they were only 32 years old they could have kept them until t 2002 then replaced them with the R143s. From 1993 until 2002 they had a B div car shortage they should have just kept them.

 

Does anybody know why these cars were retired so young?

 

The R68/A's replaced the R16's AFAIR

 

I'm not sure if this is the answer you were looking for but those R27 and R30 cars did not have air conditioning, and retrofitting them with air conditioning would have made the cars too heavy, so that could have played a role with the majority of the cars in the system air conditioned by the early 90's.

[N-Trizzy2609 11]

I know that the R30s and 27s suffered a early retirement due to kinks in air-conditioning problem. If anything, a ten car set of R27s were retrofitted with A/C but it's curb weight was astronomical! Sadly, in 93' they had too go. They didn't get scrap right away tho. They were used in many movies. "Money Train" "Die Hard 2" "Blade" ect. As for the R16s, they were so rusted and graffitied down, they were impossible to even overhaul so they were scrapped early.

[trainfan22 1,782]

The R68/A's replaced the R16's AFAIR

 

I'm not sure if this is the answer you were looking for but those R27 and R30 cars did not have air conditioning, and retrofitting them with air conditioning would have made the cars too heavy, so that could have played a role with the majority of the cars in the system air conditioned by the early 90's.

 

I think the R68/A replaced the R10s. So they retired them due to not having A/C? well thats sucks its not like it would kill coummters to ride a train without any A/C. I think that those R27/30s still had some service life left in the tank. I heard that they were in good shape when they were retired.

[trainfan22 1,782]

I know that the R30s and 27s suffered a early retirement due to kinks in air-conditioning problem. If anything, a ten car set of R27s were retrofitted with A/C but it's curb weight was astronomical! Sadly, in 93' they had too go. They didn't get scrap right away tho. They were used in many movies. "Money Train" "Die Hard 2" "Blade" ect. As for the R16s, they were so rusted and graffitied down, they were impossible to even overhaul so they were scrapped early.

 

Werent A div cars used in money train? Or are you talking about that secne at the end where the R30 ( train got rear ended by the money train? They had to use some irt cars there was an redbird and an redbird train in the movie too. And the actual money train itself was an retired R21 or something like that.

 

Oh that redbird in die hard was an R30? Oh crap i did not know that all these years i thought it was an R17 or something.

 

So that ( train in money train was an B div car. All these years i thought it was an IRT car for that secne!!

[SubwayGuy 2,314]

I think the R68/A replaced the R10s. So they retired them due to not having A/C? well thats sucks its not like it would kill coummters to ride a train without any A/C. I think that those R27/30s still had some service life left in the tank. I heard that they were in good shape when they were retired.

 

I believe originally the R46 was supposed to do that, but the problems with the trucks and the electrical were so bad the R16s and R10s stuck around for a while. Technically both car classes were being retired at around the same time as the R68/A orders came in (R10's started being retired in 1984, but were still running as late as 1989), but the R16's were fully gone by 1987 which is why I said what I did in my last post. The R16's were known for having controllers that shorted out aka "12-5", and heaters that were a fire hazard. They were considered the least reliable cars in the system by many. The R10's had a light GOH in the mid 80's since it was apparent they'd be needed for a while (not sure what, if anything, was done to the R16's for maintenance/OH). So I guess the TA figured that some of those R10s could hang around till the last R68A's arrived in '89. The worst performing R10s and R16s were the ones taken off the road initally when the R68/A's started coming in, then the rest of the R16s, then the remainder of the R10s. As a very little kid I remember riding an R10 in service (I remember the R10 because it was green).

[SubwayGuy 2,314]

I think the R68/A replaced the R10s. So they retired them due to not having A/C? well thats sucks its not like it would kill coummters to ride a train without any A/C. I think that those R27/30s still had some service life left in the tank. I heard that they were in good shape when they were retired.

 

you'd be surprised, whenever I board a car with no A/C the comments are so funny I have to bite myself to keep from laughing. Ironically, it's the yuppies complaining a lot (expected), and the older folks (unexpected) - you'd think they'd be OK with it because they "remember when" but nope

[SubwayGuy 2,314]

Werent A div cars used in money train? Or are you talking about that secne at the end where the R30 ( train got rear ended by the money train? They had to use some irt cars there was an redbird and an redbird train in the movie too. And the actual money train itself was an retired R21 or something like that.

 

Oh that redbird in die hard was an R30? Oh crap i did not know that all these years i thought it was an R17 or something.

 

So that ( train in money train was an B div car. All these years i thought it was an IRT car for that secne!!

 

Yup the actual "money train" itself was a converted R22...

 

That train also showed up in a HORRIBLY goofed subway scene on CSI: NY

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ew4bJA2En18&feature=related

 

See if you can win at "guess the train"

[trainfan22 1,782]

All i will say to that video is WTF? That train looks like an R32 redbird R62 all put into one train. And they got the mta logo wrong and the tunnel lights wrong. And why was they showing clips of the money train? They even showed a clip of the path system with an R62 in the station!!!! How do you go from the nyc subway to path!!

 

As to guess what the train is i will say that its a muckup train. That cant be a real train LOL

[SubwayGuy 2,314]

All i will say to that video is WTF? That train looks like an R32 redbird R62 all put into one train. And they got the mta logo wrong and the tunnel lights wrong. And why was they showing clips of the money train? They even showed a clip of the path system with an R62 in the station!!!! How do you go from the nyc subway to path!!

 

As to guess what the train is i will say that its a muckup train. That cant be a real train LOL

 

haha, well you got some of it. it's not one train, it's several. I counted an R30 painted with primer (the white train), there's the car interior used by the show (not an actual train though just a set), there's the money train, there's various redbirds, and there's a scene using an R38 thrown in there too for good measure. The R62 is the train in front. But in addition to the obvious with the train, there are also the technical difficulties, of which I counted at last these, there's more but this will get things started:

-"Bingbong" sound on a series of car classes that never had Bingbong (notice all the car types listed above are PRE R44, except for the R62, which is not the train they are riding in)

-Train Operator is the victim (first car of the consist), yet when the train decides to go all ATO on them, they have to run up three cars to get to the operator's cab...Didn't know it was possible to operate from the middle of the train...

-When they get to the first car, they try to open the storm door, and they call it the operator's cab...

-When they find the train operator at his "operating position" it is in PLAIN VIEW of the passenger area of the car. Not even so much as a partition or half width cab there.

 

As for the MTA logo and the route colors and signs, I assume that the MTA didn't want any resemblance to the actual subway due to a longstanding policy (at least since The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3) not to OK use of actual resemblance to the subway system where violence is shown. Ironically if you look at the first scene, at the "42nd St." subway station, the 1 2 and 3 routes appear in yellow, while N and R appear in red. Obviously, in real life, the RED and and yellow and (among others) stop at 42nd St., so it looks like they just arranged a color swap.

[Pablo M 201 35]

Yup the actual "money train" itself was a converted R22...

 

That train also showed up in a HORRIBLY goofed subway scene on CSI: NY

Thing is about that scene, when you see 51050, that clip was taken from the movie "Money Train" itself! They were so pathetic!

 

Even Law & Order does better with their subway scenes, even though they use PATH more for train scenes.

[trainfan22 1,782]

haha, well you got some of it. it's not one train, it's several. I counted an R30 painted with primer (the white train), there's the car interior used by the show (not an actual train though just a set), there's the money train, there's various redbirds, and there's a scene using an R38 thrown in there too for good measure. The R62 is the train in front. But in addition to the obvious with the train, there are also the technical difficulties, of which I counted at last these, there's more but this will get things started:

-"Bingbong" sound on a series of car classes that never had Bingbong (notice all the car types listed above are PRE R44, except for the R62, which is not the train they are riding in)

-Train Operator is the victim (first car of the consist), yet when the train decides to go all ATO on them, they have to run up three cars to get to the operator's cab...Didn't know it was possible to operate from the middle of the train...

-When they get to the first car, they try to open the storm door, and they call it the operator's cab...

-When they find the train operator at his "operating position" it is in PLAIN VIEW of the passenger area of the car. Not even so much as a partition or half width cab there.

 

As for the MTA logo and the route colors and signs, I assume that the MTA didn't want any resemblance to the actual subway due to a longstanding policy (at least since The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3) not to OK use of actual resemblance to the subway system where violence is shown. Ironically if you look at the first scene, at the "42nd St." subway station, the 1 2 and 3 routes appear in yellow, while N and R appear in red. Obviously, in real life, the RED and and yellow and (among others) stop at 42nd St., so it looks like they just arranged a color swap.

I first i thought robbers stole the train LOL. I didnt know the train starting moving by itself. But they did say that he got killed in the yard so it could have been an three car train doing an yard move. And yeah the door chime kinda conufsed me at first. But the movie money train used the real MTA logo if i recall correctly they had the MTA logo on the R30 set in the movie. And the had the real ( and train in the movie too.

[SubwayGuy 2,314]

I first i thought robbers stole the train LOL. I didnt know the train starting moving by itself. But they did say that he got killed in the yard so it could have been an three car train doing an yard move. And yeah the door chime kinda conufsed me at first. But the movie money train used the real MTA logo if i recall correctly they had the MTA logo on the R30 set in the movie. And the had the real ( and train in the movie too.

 

in the episode, the story went that the train was being controlled remotely through some crazy computer hack using the ipod like device that was hooked up in the tunnel.

 

My comment on the T/O's position in the "first car" didn't have to do with the length of the train, just the fact that if they already examining him in (what should have been) the first car of the consist, there should have been no reason to "run up" an additional 3 cars to get to the front. Unless of course, CSI: NY thinks it's possible to operate a train from the middle.

 

and as for that "3 car train" it was probably a 3 car train because CSI: NY was on a limited budget

[East New York 4,046]

What do R30's look like. The R16 is the one at the transit museum right?

[trainfan22 1,782]

What do R30's look like. The R16 is the one at the transit museum right?

this page should help you out it has a ton of pics of the R30s http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/postunification.html

 

And theres is both R16s and R30s at the transit museum.

[East New York 4,046]

this page should help you out it has a ton of pics of the R30s http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/postunification.html

 

And theres is both R16s and R30s at the transit museum.

 

Thanks. I haven't been to the Museum sence '06, so I don't remember them all. I think I'll make a trip there soon. I wonder if I can get away with saying I'm 16 again? LOL:D