Cagelike subway turnstiles can bambooze less experienced straphangers into paying fare twice

[MikeGerald]

Whenever I used the HEET's - I hold out my arm stopping the motion of the bars, and basically telling anyone who wants to exit to wait until I've entered, if I've already swiped. While the person exiting might not "directly cause someone to loose a fare" - the rocking back and forth of the turning arms can do so - that has happened to me and other people. This is a notorious happening at the 14th Street-Seventh Avenue entrance right near the Mc-Donalds and Chase Bank, and the pathway for the L-train.

 

Stopping the turning of the arms of the HEET has become my standard practice when dealing with those devices while I'm swiping to go through. I have seen folks lose a ride when other folks have exited while they were swiping, or the turning actions of the arms. It's not pleasant to lose a fare, or to have to deal with a "Just Used" message - when one has to get somewhere.

 

A few years ago at the Stone Street exit of the Whitehall Street station, a couple of folks became trapped between the closed gates on the stairway leading to the street, and closed gates leading back to the platform. The station is rather deep, and their cell phones could not work - so all they could do was yell their lungs out - hoping for help. I happened to walk by and heard their cries - and contacted the police on my cell-phone. I had to explain the situation to the operator - since I was not sure of just who to call to get those folks out of there. At that time of night, the ferries ran on an hourly schedule - so it's never fun missing the boat. In any case, the operator alerted the police, and those in the MTA who could unlock the gates - and the folks were freed. An interesting night, and I did make the boat.

 

Mike

[traildriver]

Whenever I used the HEET's - I hold out my arm stopping the motion of the bars, and basically telling anyone who wants to exit to wait until I've entered, if I've already swiped. While the person exiting might not "directly cause someone to loose a fare" - the rocking back and forth of the turning arms can do so - that has happened to me and other people. This is a notorious happening at the 14th Street-Seventh Avenue entrance right near the Mc-Donalds and Chase Bank, and the pathway for the L-train.

 

Stopping the turning of the arms of the HEET has become my standard practice when dealing with those devices while I'm swiping to go through. I have seen folks lose a ride when other folks have exited while they were swiping, or the turning actions of the arms. It's not pleasant to lose a fare, or to have to deal with a "Just Used" message - when one has to get somewhere.

 

A few years ago at the Stone Street exit of the Whitehall Street station, a couple of folks became trapped between the closed gates on the stairway leading to the street, and closed gates leading back to the platform. The station is rather deep, and their cell phones could not work - so all they could do was yell their lungs out - hoping for help. I happened to walk by and heard their cries - and contacted the police on my cell-phone. I had to explain the situation to the operator - since I was not sure of just who to call to get those folks out of there. At that time of night, the ferries ran on an hourly schedule - so it's never fun missing the boat. In any case, the operator alerted the police, and those in the MTA who could unlock the gates - and the folks were freed. An interesting night, and I did make the boat.

 

Mike

So I'm not the only one to get caught in that situation.....

[KGTeleport]

However smartcards (RFIDs) could work for revolving doors that only revolve one way, some office buildings use revolving doors that scan RFIDs to grant access to the facility.

 

Smartcards would make a 100% closed system unnecessary. This is because the ridership distribution is far from uniform. 60% of the entries are accounted for by a coherent group of just 25% of the stations, namely:

1) the 35 stations in Manhattan below 64th St with over 5.95 million* annual entries (34%);

2) the other 31 stations in Manhattan below 64th St (7%);

3) the 32 stations in the outer boroughs and above 64th with over 5.95 million annual entries (17%);

4) 7 other stations in downtown Brooklyn and also 79/Broadway, which would otherwise be blatant gaps in a closed zone (2%).

 

This is obviously because most journeys have one end or other in the Manhattan CBD or at a major destination outside the Manhattan CBD (e.g. Downtown Brooklyn, Jamaica, Flushing, the Bronx Hub).

 

By requiring RFID to enter and exit at these 106 stations and implementing an honor touch-in touch-out system at the other 318, fare-beating would be very difficult indeed.

 

It could be essentially stopped entirely by adding another 74 stations to the closed zone (taking it up to 78% of entries), namely those that either have over 3.5 million** annual ridership (43) or are amongst the stations with over 2 million annual ridership that account for a third of the ridership on a line*** (31). But we're quickly getting into diminishing returns with that group.

 

* Not an arbitrary figure: this is 50% coverage overall.

** Not an arbitrary figure: this is 50% coverage outside the Manhattan CBD.

*** This group is more arbitrary. It's a trade-off between covering one end of most short subway journeys and employing staff to assist non-existent customers. The only lines this would leave with no non-transfer stations barriered against local fare-beating would be the Rockaways, Dyre, Myrtle, and Franklin. Ultimately, there must be a figure of around $50,000-$100,000 lost to fare beating per annum at a station to justify a fixed staff presence: at some point it becomes cheaper to let people beat the fare.

[Retired Transit]

Most subway riders can quickly navigate through a revolving-door, ceiling-to-floor turnstile. It's a simple enough maneuver: Swipe the MetroCard, step straight ahead, push the bars forward.

 

In less time than it takes a conductor to say, "We're being held in the station by the train dispatcher," the seasoned straphanger has crossed to the other side.

 

But the cagelike contraptions can bamboozle less experienced travelers into paying the $2.25 fare twice - an apparently unintended consequence of the design that doesn't seem to trouble the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

 

"These are the biggest robbers down here," one transit worker said as he repaired a high entrance-exit turnstile, or HEET, in the Union Square station.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/12/13/2010-12-13_step_right_up_and_pay_twice_for_same_ride_the_biggest_robbers_down_here.html#ixzz182VkwTr4

 

In the first place, one thing the TA failed to say forcefully enough is the fact that all versions of the new turnstiles - both Low and High - are designed for Right-handed people. I was a Station Agent, so I can tell you that the vast majority of such issues happened because a left-handed person insisted on using his/her left hand to swipe the Metrocard. This caused the majority of Mis-swipes because the stripe wasn't correctly lined up with the magnetic reader heads. When you have a mis-swipe, and the turnstile readout says "Swipe Again Here", the only approved action is to immediately swipe at the same turnstile immediately. I've had lots of people swipe incorrectly at both types of turnstiles, and - instead of swiping at the same turnstile twice - they would move to another turnstile assuming that the first one was defective. I could yell over the PA until I was blue in the fact to save them the second fare, but they wouldn't listen.

[Messino]

In the first place, one thing the TA failed to say forcefully enough is the fact that all versions of the new turnstiles - both Low and High - are designed for Right-handed people. I was a Station Agent, so I can tell you that the vast majority of such issues happened because a left-handed person insisted on using his/her left hand to swipe the Metrocard. This caused the majority of Mis-swipes because the stripe wasn't correctly lined up with the magnetic reader heads. When you have a mis-swipe, and the turnstile readout says "Swipe Again Here", the only approved action is to immediately swipe at the same turnstile immediately. I've had lots of people swipe incorrectly at both types of turnstiles, and - instead of swiping at the same turnstile twice - they would move to another turnstile assuming that the first one was defective. I could yell over the PA until I was blue in the fact to save them the second fare, but they wouldn't listen.

 

It's a right hand dominated world.. Even if you swipe at the same turnstile right after it says swipe again, it will take a fare off. Dont know why but it happens all the time.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They take a fare off your card if you swipe too fast , it says swipe again and then it says less than was on the card or if unlimited it says just used. This happens ALL the time. Also if you enter in a rush after another person it will just lock up even though it took a fare from your card.

 

Its not a hard concept to understand. There are flaws with how they work.

 

People aren't as incompetent as MHV9218 is implying... I had it happen to me once where the turnstile wasn't completely turned in that little "groove", so when I swiped my card and went and pushed the bars since it was in between grooves or whatever you call that, it stopped before I could go through. I explained to the station agent what happened and instead of her being understanding she was a real b*tch about it, so I just bought a single ride and said the hell w/it since I had an unlimited card and was not up to waiting the 18 or so minutes to swipe again. Now that was the only issue I've ever had w/them in the years that I've used them. Whenever I do use them I try to make sure that turnstile is fully turned so that itI won't stop short and I can get through.