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MNRR long term plans and proposals - 2040 plan


Nexis4Jersey

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High Speed Rail is best left to CSX and Amtrak. The MNRR doesn't have permission to operate out of NYC's suburban areas. Garibaldi if you want more information for high speed rail in NYC, and the state I suggest you look up the Empire Corridor. I do believe that CSX should be in control of all of America's future high speed rail networks due to the fact that CSX is making money while Amtrak is losing it.

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High Speed Rail is best left to CSX and Amtrak. The MNRR doesn't have permission to operate out of NYC's suburban areas. Garibaldi if you want more information for high speed rail in NYC, and the state I suggest you look up the Empire Corridor. I do believe that CSX should be in control of all of America's future high speed rail networks due to the fact that CSX is making money while Amtrak is losing it.

 

CSX , wtf are you talking about....the worst Freight company in the NE and the only one who hates HSR should run it? If any should happen , NY state should take over CSX trackage.....have you seen there track condition?

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Well sadly they are the only one making money. No one else has the money to do it. Unless if Amtrak is giving a massive amount of money from the US Government.

 

There cutting corners and neglect there tracks....they should have them revoked.... NS should have gotten the tracks , all these issues trace back to Conrail which seem to have ruined the system...by selling the tracks to the wrong ppl. What does Amtrak and HSR have to do with the MNRR?

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No I didn't. There was already a discussion going on about rail improvements and comparisons between Europe's railways and ours. I just added to it.

 

Indeed, it was my fault. I started the comparison which I'm sorry for. It was wiser if opened a new topic for that instead of going offtopic in this thread.

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  • 1 month later...
High Speed Rail is best left to CSX and Amtrak. The MNRR doesn't have permission to operate out of NYC's suburban areas. Garibaldi if you want more information for high speed rail in NYC, and the state I suggest you look up the Empire Corridor. I do believe that CSX should be in control of all of America's future high speed rail networks due to the fact that CSX is making money while Amtrak is losing it.

 

CSXT runs High Speed Freight, when and where it can. Why the hell would any freight carrier want to get involved in passenger travel, especially HSR. And have you ever heard of monopolization? If were even legal in this country, any industry with a single dominant corporate entity would perpetually be playing with fire because the failure of that one corporation could be a de facto failure of that industry. CSXT was designed as a freight carrier, and all of its equipment, yards and maintenance shops serve that purpose. HSR operations would mean starting from scratch with an entirely different approach to doing business, which will never happen at this point anywhere in America.

 

 

CSX , wtf are you talking about....the worst Freight company in the NE and the only one who hates HSR should run it? If any should happen , NY state should take over CSX trackage.....have you seen there track condition?

 

NYS, currently a state in one of the worst fiscal situations in the country? For one, I wouldn't trust NYS to mow a lawn without being late, going over budget and cutting corners. Second, government intervention of most private industries should be avoided at all costs unless it's been proven to be absolutely essential.

 

 

There cutting corners and neglect there tracks....they should have them revoked.... NS should have gotten the tracks , all these issues trace back to Conrail which seem to have ruined the system...by selling the tracks to the wrong ppl. What does Amtrak and HSR have to do with the MNRR?

 

A brief history lesson -

 

Infrastructure neglect began well before Conrail and Amtrak were ever even thought of. Passenger and freight railroading in the Northeast was headed the way of the dinosaurs following WWII due to the increased popularity and accessibility of automobiles and air travel. Eisenhower's Interstate Highway System, built in reality as a national defense measure, and Robert Moses' pro-auto-anti-train attitude, contractual losses and were a few of the biggest reasons that regional railroads were losing revenue. The mismanagement that infested the PRR, NYC, NH and their subsidiaries, difficult labor union negotiations and the ICC's over-regulation of rates caused system improvements and upgrades to seem like hallucinations and necessary infrastructure and equipment maintenance to become be decided up with coin flips and dart throws. Penn Central was a doomed endeavor, and both Amtrak in 1971 and Conrail in 1976 inherited a system that was marred by deferred maintenance and aging infrastructure. NJT and MNCR were created in 1983 to join the LIRR, thus assuming the same decaying system.

 

CSXT and NS jointly bought out Conrail in 1997. If NS had purchased the entire system, I tend to think Conrail would simply have become an operating subsidiary with few changes other than the integration of resources and administrative policies. And, who are these "wrong people"?

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CSXT runs High Speed Freight, when and where it can. Why the hell would any freight carrier want to get involved in passenger travel, especially HSR. And have you ever heard of monopolization? If were even legal in this country, any industry with a single dominant corporate entity would perpetually be playing with fire because the failure of that one corporation could be a de facto failure of that industry. CSXT was designed as a freight carrier, and all of its equipment, yards and maintenance shops serve that purpose. HSR operations would mean starting from scratch with an entirely different approach to doing business, which will never happen at this point anywhere in America.

 

 

 

 

NYS, currently a state in one of the worst fiscal situations in the country? For one, I wouldn't trust NYS to mow a lawn without being late, going over budget and cutting corners. Second, government intervention of most private industries should be avoided at all costs unless it's been proven to be absolutely essential.

 

 

 

 

A brief history lesson -

 

Infrastructure neglect began well before Conrail and Amtrak were ever even thought of. Passenger and freight railroading in the Northeast was headed the way of the dinosaurs following WWII due to the increased popularity and accessibility of automobiles and air travel. Eisenhower's Interstate Highway System, built in reality as a national defense measure, and Robert Moses' pro-auto-anti-train attitude, contractual losses and were a few of the biggest reasons that regional railroads were losing revenue. The mismanagement that infested the PRR, NYC, NH and their subsidiaries, difficult labor union negotiations and the ICC's over-regulation of rates caused system improvements and upgrades to seem like hallucinations and necessary infrastructure and equipment maintenance to become be decided up with coin flips and dart throws. Penn Central was a doomed endeavor, and both Amtrak in 1971 and Conrail in 1976 inherited a system that was marred by deferred maintenance and aging infrastructure. NJT and MNCR were created in 1983 to join the LIRR, thus assuming the same decaying system.

 

CSXT and NS jointly bought out Conrail in 1997. If NS had purchased the entire system, I tend to think Conrail would simply have become an operating subsidiary with few changes other than the integration of resources and administrative policies. And, who are these "wrong people"?

 

I'm aware of the past history , WTH CSX doesn't run HSF , HSF operates 90mph+ and can be found in Europe and Asia. There are alot of smaller companies all across the NE studying there lines to see if Passenger service is possible. PPP's can help will help many struggling projects in NYS get off the ground. NYSDOT has done a great job with the Smart Streets program , i'm sure they can do a great job with HSR. CT is in worse shape then NYSDOT yet they have plans and are enhancing / expanding there lines.

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I'm aware of the past history , WTH CSX doesn't run HSF , HSF operates 90mph+ and can be found in Europe and Asia. There are alot of smaller companies all across the NE studying there lines to see if Passenger service is possible. PPP's can help will help many struggling projects in NYS get off the ground. NYSDOT has done a great job with the Smart Streets program , i'm sure they can do a great job with HSR. CT is in worse shape then NYSDOT yet they have plans and are enhancing / expanding there lines.

 

now this makes sense. If I were amtrak I would convert all the money losing trains into mixed trains. Use the revenue for real estate investment then begin upgrading the rails while buildiing separate ROWs throughout the country to eventually rid the system of delays. Eliminate the snack bar since it is a big WASTE. Invest in HSR along corridors that pass through ALL major cities. Then enhance conectivity with major airports. Eventually the mixed trains will cease as the rail becomes profitable.

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Good thing I have done my homework, and found two companies that are interested in high speed rail. That would be Burlington Northern & Santa Fe Railway, and the Norfolk Southern Railway.

 

No, neither are interested in even paying to maintain the infrastructure to run speeds faster than freight moves at. Why would they anyway?

 

Google "norfolk southern high speed rail" and "bnsf high speed rail" and continue to do your homework.

 

Does anyone else have anything to contribute regarding Metro-North?

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* The I287 Rail project stations are not exactly solid yet , there still in the talking phase and design phase.... I suspect the list might get bigger east of the Hudson...

 

* Some projects are not proposed by the MNRR , but by towns or Developers as in the case of Downtown Norwalk , Sleepy Hollow Waterfront and East Bridgeport.

 

Current , Proposed or Under Construction stations

Northern New Jersey Transit / Metro North

East of the Hudson

New Haven line - GTC route

Grand Central Terminal

Harlem - 125th Street

Yankees – East 153rd Street (Game Days only)

Fordham

Mount Vernon East

Pelham

New Rochelle

Larchmont

Mamaroneck

Harrison

Rye

Port Chester

Greenwich

Cos-Cob

Riverside

Old Greenwich

Stamford

East Stamford

Norton Heights

Darien

Rowayton

South Norwalk

East Norwalk

Wesport

Green Farms

Southport

Fairfield

Fairfield Metro Center

Bridgeport

East Bridgeport

Stratford

Milford

Orange

West Haven

New Haven Union Station

New Haven State street

 

New Haven line - Penn Station Extension

Penn Station

Hunts Point

Parkchester

Co-Op City

New Rochelle

Harrison

Stamford

 

New Canaan Branch

Stamford

East Stamford

Glenbrook

Springdale

Talmadge Hill

New Canaan

 

Danbury Branch

South Norwalk

Downtown Norwalk

Merritt 7

Wilton

Cannondale

Georgetown

Branchville

Redding

Bethel

Danbury

North Danbury

Brookfield

New Milford

 

Waterbury Branch

Stamford

Bridgeport

Stratford

Derby-Shelton

Ansonia

Seymour

Beacon Falls

Naugatuck

Waterbury

 

Harlem line

Grand Central Terminal

Harlem-125th Street

Melrose

Tremont

Fordham

Botanical Garden

Williams Bridge

Woodlawn

Wakefield

Mt. Vernon West

Fleetwood

Bronxville

Tuckahoe

Crestwood

Scarsdale

Hartsdale

White Plains

North White Plains

Valhalla

Mt. Pleasant

Hawthrone

Pleasentville

Chappaqua

Mt. Kisco

Bedford Hills

Katonah

Golden's Bridge

Purdy's

Croton Falls

Brewster

Southeast

Patterson

Pawling

Appalachian Trail

Harlem Valley-Wingdale

Dover Plains

Tenmile River

Wassaic

 

Hudson line - GCT Route

Grand Central Terminal

Harlem-125th Street

Yankees-E. 153 St

Morris Heights

University Heights

Marble Hill

Spuyten Duyvil

Riverdale

Ludlow

Yonkers

Glenwood

Greystone

Hastings-on-Hudson

Dobbs Ferry

Ardsley-on-Hudson

Irvington

Tarryrown

Sleepy Hollow Waterfront

Philipse Manor

Scarborough

Ossining

Croton-Harmon

Cortlandt

Peekskill

Manitou

Garrison

Cold Spring

Breakneck Ridge

Beacon

New Hamburg

Poughkeepsie

 

Hudson line - Penn Station Extension

Penn Station

West 62nd Street

West 125th Street

Dyckman St

Riverdale

Yonkers

 

Beacon / Maybrook line

Beacon

Beacon Town Center

Fishkill

Brinckernoff

Hopewell JCT

Brewster

Danbury

Newton

Derby-Shelton

 

West of the Hudson

 

Port Jervis line

Hoboken Terminal

Secaucus JCT

Paterson

Ridgewood

Suffern

Hillburn

Sloatsburg

Tuxedo

Harriman

Salisbury Mills-Cornwall

Campbell Hall

Middletown-Town of Wallkill

Otisville

Port Jervis

 

Main Line

Hoboken

Secaucus JCT

Kingsland

Lyndhurst

Delawanna

Passaic

Clifton

Paterson

North Paterson

Hawthorne Transit Center

Glen Rock

Ridgewood

Ho-Ho-Kus

Waldwick

Allendale

Ramsey-Main St.

Ramsey-Route 17

Mahwah

Suffern

Hillburn

 

Bergen line

Hoboken Terminal

Secaucus JCT

Rutherford

Wesmont

Garfield

Plaunderville

Broadway - Fair Lawn

Radburn - Fair Lawn

Glen Rock Boro Hall

Ridgewood

Ho-Ho-Kus

Waldwick

Allendale

Ramsey-Main St.

Ramsey-Route 17

Mahwah

Suffern

 

Pascack Valley line

Hoboken Terminal

Secaucus JCT

Wood-Ridge

Teterboro

Essex Street - Hackensack

Railroad Ave JCT - Hackensack

Anderson Street - Hackensack

New Bridge Landing

River Edge

Oradell

Emerson

Westwood

Hillsdale

Woodcliff Lake

Park Ridge

Montvale

Pearl River

Pfizer Plant

Nanuet

Spring Valley

Monsey

Airmont

East Suffern

Hillburn

 

Stewart Airport Express

Grand Central Terminal

Harlem-125th Street

Yonkers

Nyack

East Suffern

Stewart Airport

 

I-287 Rail Corridor

Hillburn

East Suffern

Airmont

Monsey

Spring Valley

West Nyack

Nyack

Tarrytown

Elmsford

Fairview

White Plains Transit Center

Downtown White Plains

East White Plains

Port Chester

 

I-287 Rail Corridor GCT spur

Hillburn

East Suffern

Airmont

Monsey

Spring Valley

West Nyack

Nyack

Irvington

Yonkers

Harlem-125th Street

Grand Central Terminal

 

West Shore line

Hoboken Terminal

Secaucus JCT

Meadowlands Sports Complex

Vince Lombradi Park & Ride

Ridgefield Park

Cedar Lane - Teaneck

West Englewood

Bergenfield

Haworth

Harrington Park

Tappan

Blauvelt

Valley Cottage

Congers

Haverstraw

Stony Point

Bear Mountain

Highland Falls

West Point

Cornwall on Hudson

Newburgh

Milton

Kingston

 

Bergen - Passaic LRT

Hawthorne Transit Center

5th Street - Paterson

Lafayette Street - Paterson

Madison Ave - Paterson

20th Ave - Paterson

Vreeland Ave - Paterson

Boulevard - Paterson

Midland Ave - Saddle Brook

Mayhill Street -Saddle Brook

Maywood Ave - Maywood

American Legion Dr - Hackensack

Railroad Ave JCT - Hackensack

Main Street - Hackensack

Munn Ave - Bogota

Ridgefield Park

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Who are the court jesters who have proposed station stops in East Stamford, East Bridgeport and Orange? The New Haven Line is not rapid transit, and adding stations will only lead to slower trains, delays and longer scheduled travel times. PTC will probably do enough of that once it's been implemented. What's convenient for the people residing and working in those areas isn't necessary convenient for everyone else, especially not the railroad. I mean, I'd love a train to make a station stop in my front yard, but I doubt that project will receive funding and support anytime soon.

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Who are the court jesters who have proposed station stops in East Stamford, East Bridgeport and Orange? The New Haven Line is not rapid transit, and adding stations will only lead to slower trains, delays and longer scheduled travel times. PTC will probably do enough of that once it's been implemented. What's convenient for the people residing and working in those areas isn't necessary convenient for everyone else, especially not the railroad. I mean, I'd love a train to make a station stop in my front yard, but I doubt that project will receive funding and support anytime soon.

 

The Cities and towns are studying those 3 , as the region grows and private large scale developments are become increasing popular in the old Industrial sections of CT. Thus you have the ever increasing need for stations , Developers usually request a station so there sites do not overload a station a few miles a way. Same is happening along some of the NJT lines and MBTA lines..... Orange might not happen , but this depends on West Haven's success. East Stamford , and East Bridgeport are attached to stalled developments.... So for the time being thats on hold. Same with Downtown Norwalk and Georgetown....

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  • 2 weeks later...

The I-287 Rail plans , it would happen in 2 phases..... Hillburn - Tarrytown & Tarrytown - Port Chester.... Joining the GCT network with the West of the Hudson system is top priority.... They want to expand Stewart Airport and make into an In't Airport with a Rail link. The line itself is looking like it will be Catenary , with 3rd Rail sections connecting the GCT network. The Catenary will connect the New Haven line with Port Jervis line. Trains coming from CT would be allowed to take this cross county route using overhead.

 

Ive been Told Option 2 is more likely due to the costs with Option 1 for the Hillburn to Airmont section. The Pascack Valley line will be restored between Spring Valley and Airmont using old ROW.

 

alt4a-crt-rockland-west.jpg

 

I have no idea what the final say is on the NY 59 Park & Ride / PVL interchange. The PPP Mall Station with have room for the future West Shore line transfer station. There will also be a station in Nyack or South Nyack.

 

alt4a-crt-rockland-east.jpg

 

The Tarrytown station would not have parking and there still working on the exact site. Option 2 for Elmsford is looking more solid then Option 1 due to Soil conditions , less NIMBYS , and faster route. Its to soon to tell on WP's..

alt4a-crt-westchester-west.jpg

 

Option 1 is looking more likely then Option 2 due to cost reasons...

 

alt4a-crt-westchester-east.jpg

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Orange might not happen , but this depends on West Haven's success. East Stamford , and East Bridgeport are attached to stalled developments.... So for the time being thats on hold. Same with Downtown Norwalk and Georgetown....

 

There was another Glenbrook station on the NH mainline just east of CP 235, which is in east Stamford; it's long been abandoned. I'd really like to know where there's a feasible location to plop another station between Noroton and Stamford, considering the track layout through there.

 

There were another four stations on the Danbury Branch between the mainline and Merritt 7. Here it's easier to fit a shorter Downtown Norwalk platform on one side of the tracks, as is typical of the NHL branches. And, a rebuilt Georgetown station has already been approved.

 

East Bridgeport... where and why?

 

Unless overhead catenary is going to be installed the entire length of Industrial Track 5, I can't see a station being built in Orange.

 

Nexis, these questions and comments aren't intended to counter your post at all. I'm just wondering how developers and communities arrive at some of their conclusions.

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There was another Glenbrook station on the NH mainline just east of CP 235, which is in east Stamford; it's long been abandoned. I'd really like to know where there's a feasible location to plop another station between Noroton and Stamford, considering the track layout through there.

 

There were another four stations on the Danbury Branch between the mainline and Merritt 7. Here it's easier to fit a shorter Downtown Norwalk platform on one side of the tracks, as is typical of the NHL branches. And, a rebuilt Georgetown station has already been approved.

 

East Bridgeport... where and why?

 

Unless overhead catenary is going to be installed the entire length of Industrial Track 5, I can't see a station being built in Orange.

 

Nexis, these questions and comments aren't intended to counter your post at all. I'm just wondering how developers and communities arrive at some of their conclusions.

 

The New East Stamford station would be after Hamilton Ave. Part of a Massive Redevelopment project , converting the Factories into Dense living , Retail , and Office space. Looking at the area , you'll need to build a flyover for the New Canaan Branch which is possible. Idk , the project seems on hold , or at least on the back burner. There is a proposed streetcar network for Stamford , that would eliminate the need for this state and enhance ridership on the New Canaan Branch.

 

The Downtown Norwalk station is being proposed due to the recent Urban Renewal underway in Norwalk. You will probably see the Georgetown and Extension line stations built first before Downtown Norwalk is built. Alot of these small cities such as Norwalk or Stamford could easily build a streetcar network to take some strain off the South Norwalk station... The only reason stations like East Stamford , Downtown Norwalk , East Bridgeport , Orange and West Haven are proposed or built , is because in CT everybody drives to the stations. Thus once a parking lot like Fairfield or New Haven fills up a New station is proposed , this would not and does not happen in NJ or PA because a Bus or other type of Rail is available.

 

East Bridgeport i lost the article to that , but it would be a part of a Massive Redevelopment in East Bridgeport.

 

The Orange station is located on Oxford Road and is on hold , it too is part of a Massive Redevelopment project.

 

At first i didn't understand , but after some research it made some sense. But each state is different , CT is different then NJ and NY. NJ and NY would enhance the bus connections in the region were the pressure is , NJ & NY also have great Interstate Bus service to the city , CT does not. There Developments near the Train stations are selling out pretty fast and our popular with NYC commuters and other small cities like Norwalk , Stamford , Bridgeport and New Haven. This whole concept started in NJ , but just recently has reached NY and CT which is doing it larger and taller then we did in NJ. The Towns and Cities mostly look to New stations to revive struggling areas and dying neighborhoods and they do. It usually takes 4-7 years for the area to turn around and depends on where the line goes.... The largest project underway in this region that is built around a Rail system is happening in Harrison,NJ. The Development will be built around the PATH station ,and the City is requesting the old Morristown line station by reopening to take pressure off the PATH. Now you'll probably asking why reopen at a station , well the Development will add over 45-60,000 New customers to the Harrison PATH and most of these customers will be from the development. The City wants to people living in the old Harrison to have access to a station aswell , same is happening along parts of the NHL and in CT in general.

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First off, you gave a great response above.

 

 

Looking at the area , you'll need to build a flyover for the New Canaan Branch which is possible.

 

A flyover? With catenary? I don't even think there's enough room there to build an approach with a negotiable grade. Hamilton Avenue is also right near the current Glenbrook Station.

 

 

NJ and NY would enhance the bus connections in the region were the pressure is , NJ & NY also have great Interstate Bus service to the city , CT does not.

 

I don't mean to go far off topic, but that's such a great point, and I'd really like to see a stronger push for increased bus service from CTTransit, Coastal Link, GBT and the others. Any idea as to where Connecticut currently stands on this, and your thoughts for the future?

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First off, you gave a great response above.

 

 

 

 

A flyover? With catenary? I don't even think there's enough room there to build an approach with a negotiable grade. Hamilton Avenue is also right near the current Glenbrook Station.

 

 

 

 

I don't mean to go far off topic, but that's such a great point, and I'd really like to see a stronger push for increased bus service from CTTransit, Coastal Link, GBT and the others. Any idea as to where Connecticut currently stands on this, and your thoughts for the future?

bus service in CT is feeder style if it were to go to NYC it would have low usage due to duplicating metro-north. However I believe that CTtransit's intrastate service should improve. I did create a preliminary transit proposal for CT however I will release details soon. CT has intercity buses all over and on the I84 corridor. The weakness is the lack of organization they are way too many transit districts however they seem to be willing to work together as proved by the coastal link. Other rtes will be born a bridgeport-to danbury line is in the works soon however I believe fairfield county has an isolated network. I would make the I-287 rail corridor an extension of the new cannan and Shore line east trains. Then try to extend the port jefferson line to waterbury via bridgeport
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The New East Stamford station would be after Hamilton Ave. Part of a Massive Redevelopment project , converting the Factories into Dense living , Retail , and Office space. Looking at the area , you'll need to build a flyover for the New Canaan Branch which is possible. Idk , the project seems on hold , or at least on the back burner. There is a proposed streetcar network for Stamford , that would eliminate the need for this state and enhance ridership on the New Canaan Branch.

 

The Downtown Norwalk station is being proposed due to the recent Urban Renewal underway in Norwalk. You will probably see the Georgetown and Extension line stations built first before Downtown Norwalk is built. Alot of these small cities such as Norwalk or Stamford could easily build a streetcar network to take some strain off the South Norwalk station... The only reason stations like East Stamford , Downtown Norwalk , East Bridgeport , Orange and West Haven are proposed or built , is because in CT everybody drives to the stations. Thus once a parking lot like Fairfield or New Haven fills up a New station is proposed , this would not and does not happen in NJ or PA because a Bus or other type of Rail is available.

 

East Bridgeport i lost the article to that , but it would be a part of a Massive Redevelopment in East Bridgeport.

 

The Orange station is located on Oxford Road and is on hold , it too is part of a Massive Redevelopment project.

 

At first i didn't understand , but after some research it made some sense. But each state is different , CT is different then NJ and NY. NJ and NY would enhance the bus connections in the region were the pressure is , NJ & NY also have great Interstate Bus service to the city , CT does not. There Developments near the Train stations are selling out pretty fast and our popular with NYC commuters and other small cities like Norwalk , Stamford , Bridgeport and New Haven. This whole concept started in NJ , but just recently has reached NY and CT which is doing it larger and taller then we did in NJ. The Towns and Cities mostly look to New stations to revive struggling areas and dying neighborhoods and they do. It usually takes 4-7 years for the area to turn around and depends on where the line goes.... The largest project underway in this region that is built around a Rail system is happening in Harrison,NJ. The Development will be built around the PATH station ,and the City is requesting the old Morristown line station by reopening to take pressure off the PATH. Now you'll probably asking why reopen at a station , well the Development will add over 45-60,000 New customers to the Harrison PATH and most of these customers will be from the development. The City wants to people living in the old Harrison to have access to a station aswell , same is happening along parts of the NHL and in CT in general.

true but won't some stations slow down service in CT???? ppl in CT seem to want the service but don't like the idea of increased travel time care to elaborate
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