Port Jervis Line: 2 questions

[Vistausss]

I have 2 questions about the Port Jervis Line.

 

1 It's a pretty uncommon line, since it goes via NJT Territory. How come that's neccesary instead of crossing the Hudson somewhere near the Hudson Line?

2 Also, when there are delays on the PJ Line, the MTA always provides delay information from NJT on their website, even when it's about stations on the MTA territory. Why NJT when MTA operates?

[HomeBall]

1) There currently are no Hudson rail crossings other than the Hudson tunnels to NYP, followed behind by what used to be the Poughkeepsie rail bridge which no longer serves rail traffic.

 

2) NJT operates it not MTA. MTA funds for the New York portion of the line, NJT runs the trains.

[Vistausss]

Thanks for the quick answer B)

 

1) Why is that bridge not in use anymore? Wouldn't it be cheaper to cross the Hudson via that bridge to Port Jervis?

2) I see. Same goes for the Pascack Valley Line I guess?

[Amtrak7]

Thanks for the quick answer B)

 

1) Why is that bridge not in use anymore? Wouldn't it be cheaper to cross the Hudson via that bridge to Port Jervis?

2) I see. Same goes for the Pascack Valley Line I guess?

 

Bridge had a fire and was abandonned in the 80's, I think. It's now a pedestrian walkway.

 

PVL is also via NJT.

[Shortline Bus]

Thanks for the quick answer B)

 

1) Why is that bridge not in use anymore? Wouldn't it be cheaper to cross the Hudson via that bridge to Port Jervis?

2) I see. Same goes for the Pascack Valley Line I guess?

 

 

 

Maybe someone like Metsfan can give you more history of the "Poughkeepsie Bridge' and why it closed down.

 

 

Back to current. Just recently there was an agreement to bulid a new Hudson River tunnel next to the existing one used by (NJT) and Amtrak by the Lincoln Tunnel. The project had just started but was cancelled by NJ Govenor Christie when he and the Feds mainly the US DOT(Department of Transportation)and Amtrak could not agree on funding. So that project which was called ARC is now on hold and may never see re-start.

 

 

2)Yes the Pascack Valley Line also runs through Bergen County, NJ and operated. by (NJT). It runs between Hoboken and Spring Valley, NY.

(NJT)Port Jervis line trains runs between Port Jervis, NY and Hoboken.

During some trips usually rush hours, the Pt Jervis operates 'express' between Seacucus Station and Suffern, then all stops.

All other times, the Pt Jervis trains makes all stops thru Bergen County and thus it is a 2.5 hour trip from Pt Jervis-Hoboken w/o 'express' service.

 

Trains that run to/from Suffern and Hoboken about every hour(30 minutes peak hours)and Pt Jervis about every 2-3 hours(every 30 minutes in peak direction rush hours)7 days a week.

 

 

Riders going to NYC can either transfer at Seacucus for (NJT) trains to NYP or transfer at Hoboken for Path trains to either World Trade Center(weekdays only)or 33rd St/6th (24/7).

 

PS There is a need IMO for a direct train between Bergen/Rockland/Orange County and Manhattan to relieve traffic on the NJ Turnpike, GWB/Lincoln Tunnel and Route 17.

 

As someone who lives in the Hudson Valley and uses the Hudson Line most riders who live in either the West Point/Newburgh or Middletown areas of Orange County, drive to either the Beacon or Peekskill for the Hudson Line trains to Grand Central.

 

 

Hope this info/comments help you.

[Vistausss]

That certainly helped! Thanks a lot for the information B) Now it's all clear to me

 

I agree with you that a direct line would be great. Perhaps via the Poughkeepsie Bridge or building a bridge somewhere near Dobbs Ferry and then straight to Suffern.

[Shortline Bus]

That certainly helped! Thanks a lot for the information Now it's all clear to me

 

I agree with you that a direct line would be great. Perhaps via the Poughkeepsie Bridge or building a bridge somewhere near Dobbs Ferry and then straight to Suffern.

 

I am not against funding for buliding/rebuliding rail lines in our country. It's badly needed to provide an alternative to our parking lots that many Highways/Freeways in America are going through right now. I am just oppopse it if meant cuttting basic needs such as police, fire and education.

 

 

Here Vistausss here link to NJT. Click on 'schedules' and then link for the "Main Line/Pt. Jervis" branch.

 

 

http://WWW.NJTransit.com

[mark1447]

A bit off topic but does anyone know if it is the PJL or PVL to get extended over Tappen Zee to EOH?

[HomeBall]

The PJL, supposedly. But we'll cross that bridge when they build it.

[mark1447]

Ah thx. Why doesn't this include the PVL?

[traildriver]

That Poughkeepsie bridge was at one time part of the first all-rail route between Boston and Washington--before the Hell Gate Bridge and the Hudson River Tunnels were built. The original overnight 'Federal' ran on that route. The short line Lehigh and Hudson River bridged the gap between the New Haven and the Pennsy.

[Vistausss]

That Poughkeepsie bridge was at one time part of the first all-rail route between Boston and Washington--before the Hell Gate Bridge and the Hudson River Tunnels were built. The original overnight 'Federal' ran on that route. The short line Lehigh and Hudson River bridged the gap between the New Haven and the Pennsy.

 

Thanks, now that's clear to me too

Still it seems to me like a good idea to open it again to speed up service to some parts of NY and above NY.

[traildriver]

It would probably be cheaper and better to construct a new span than to repair that. And I don't see it being of much use for any passenger train.

It is too far north to make a meaningful connection between the Port Jervis line and the Hudson line.

Money would be better spent adding more tunnels between New Jersey and The City.

[Rutgers Tube]

Thanks, now that's clear to me too

Still it seems to me like a good idea to open it again to speed up service to some parts of NY and above NY.

 

Skates, bikes and boards have the only wheels that will roll on the existing Poughkeepsie Bridge from now on.

 

Walkway over the Hudson

[Vistausss]

It would probably be cheaper and better to construct a new span than to repair that. And I don't see it being of much use for any passenger train.

It is too far north to make a meaningful connection between the Port Jervis line and the Hudson line.

Money would be better spent adding more tunnels between New Jersey and The City.

 

Port Jervis to Poughkeepsie: local. From there on: Express.

Than it is faster than the current route.

[Shortline Bus]

Port Jervis to Poughkeepsie: local. From there on: Express.

Than it is faster than the current route.

 

Again young man you have couple of billion dollars to bulid this?

 

Plus the old Poughkeepsie train bridge is now the Walkway over the Hudson a walkway with no cars next to the FDR Bridge connecting Poughkeepsie-Highland.

 

Please don't tell me Vistausss you are a 'dreamer' in which you want unrealtsic construction for new train lines? Most Americans outside of NYC use cars not transit sadly.

 

 

FYI. Best option is just re-start and bulid the cancelled ARC tunnel between NJ and NYC with better fiancing to address expensives such as the ones that mass transit critics like NJ Gov. Christie.

 

And a 'spur' train line from say "Campbell Hall' station on Pt Jervis to connect the Newburgh area and Stewart Airport. And thus call it a day.

[Vistausss]

I'm not a foamer, just a dreamer

 

It was only an idea. You have far more knowlegde about MNRR than I do, but that doesn't mean I cannot propose an idea with the knowledge I do have.

I don't have the money, but if a good connection would be made, than the expenses got payed back by the extra customers that would use it.

[Shortline Bus]

I'm not a foamer, just a dreamer

 

It was only an idea. You have far more knowlegde about MNRR than I do, but that doesn't mean I cannot propose an idea with the knowledge I do have.

I don't have the money, but if a good connection would be made, than the expenses got payed back by the extra customers that would use it.

 

 

It's nothing wrong to 'dream.' Sometimes they can come true.

[Vistausss]

Indeed

[traildriver]

There is nothing wrong with dreaming, but take a look at a map of what you are proposing. The line would go way out of its way.

 

Perhaps a better 'dream route' would be Port Jervis to Suffern, as current, and then...to Nanuet-Orangeburg-Sparkill-new tunnel under Hudson to connect with Hudson line near Dobbs Ferry. Would have the benefit of diverting the Spring Valley trains at Nanuet and future service on the River line to Newburgh and Kingston. And MNCR would be able to take over operation of the line as it would not involve New Jersey except perhaps as a connection at Suffern or Nanuet.

[Justlurkin]

There may yet be some hope for a direct rail link between Rockland and east-of-the-Hudson...

 

The Tappan Zee Bridge is nearing the end of its service life and studies are under way to determine what would be the best solution to that problem. There is talk that a replacement bridge may be designed to carry a rail link too in addition to the NYS Thruway traffic.

 

It is conceivable that on the east side of the Hudson the rail link can be connected to the Hudson line, but on the west side I can't see a clear way to link it to the Pascack Valley Line.

 

Personally I think this has a pretty low chance of actually happening, but with the Hudson Tunnels project now cancelled, maybe this one might be looked at a bit more seriously.

[Vistausss]

There is nothing wrong with dreaming, but take a look at a map of what you are proposing. The line would go way out of its way.

 

Perhaps a better 'dream route' would be Port Jervis to Suffern, as current, and then...to Nanuet-Orangeburg-Sparkill-new tunnel under Hudson to connect with Hudson line near Dobbs Ferry. Would have the benefit of diverting the Spring Valley trains at Nanuet and future service on the River line to Newburgh and Kingston. And MNCR would be able to take over operation of the line as it would not involve New Jersey except perhaps as a connection at Suffern or Nanuet.

 

I also thought of that connection, you know? But I changed my mind to the Poughkeepsie Rail Bridge 'cause that's a lot cheaper than a Hudson-tunnel to Dobbs Ferry. But I really did thought of this.

[metsfan]

When the NJT dual mode locomotives enter service & are allowed to operate into new york penn, there will likely be an attempt to get one rush hour train in peak direction to & from new york penn & port jervis, otherwise it will remain a hoboken based service.

 

The rail bridge is not an option, only a tappan zee replacement would ever hudson line-port jervis & that is way way off (think 15-25 years).

 

- A