Question about extra tracks on Bay Ridge Line, Howling motors + 8713-8717 on (Q) & more

[Wallyhorse]

And as I recall, the track on the now-abandoned east end of the Canal Street (and also Bowery) station(s) is(are) still actually actually active and can be used in an emergency (with trains using that track skipping those stations and going directly to Essex).

 

Speaking of those tracks, if they ever did build a Nassau Street connection to the SAS, I would think they would need to reopen the "uptown" side of the Bowery and Canal streets (with the using the "local" platform) since if they did that, I would think the would use the "express" tracks (from the old setup) at Canal Street (which as I would do it would be the next stop after Houston using that connection, obviously this would mean reversing the current WillyB-bound side of the platforms to accommodate an SAS line using the "express" tracks at Canal).

[4P3607]

Thanks everybody

@ Grand concourse: you seriously need a new computer / Internet connection because it was very helpful to have the maps right there and I didnt have to click to view each image.

 

Also, that was only 1/2 images on the Page, not 25!

[Vistausss]

@Roadcruiser: Eric B is right. That map is indeed wrong. This is the right map:

 

Source: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/canal.html

(where you can read the whole history of the now abandoned platforms)

[MikeGerald]

The J-line in Manhattan (which includes the Z-train) has essentially been reduced to a 2-track line in terms of practice and operation, except for the Essex Street, and Chambers Street stations. At the Essex Street stations there are three tracks and two platforms in operation, while at the Chambers Street station, two platforms and four tracks are used for the operation of the J-train.

 

Both Canal Street and Bowery Street are operated as single center platform - two track stations, where what was originally designed like a typical local/express two platform four-track arrangement. The "downtown" side of such a four track local/express station is now used as the main platform for all passengers.

 

The maps that have been cited are out-of-date in light of the actual day to day operations of the current J-train, but are useful to understand the history of the line and the changes that have taken place. The track maps cited on the NYC-Subway.Org while out of date are a general source of information. The person that created those maps and who used to update now does so in his published for sale books called, "The Tracks Of New York".

 

Hope this information helps.

Mike

[Vistausss]

@MikeGerald: Actually, Chambers St has 3 platforms.

http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/chambers.html

[Grand Concourse]

@ Grand concourse: you seriously need a new computer / Internet connection because it was very helpful to have the maps right there and I didnt have to click to view each image.

 

Also, that was only 1/2 images on the Page, not 25!

 

Um no, that's not the point. He's been told numerous times to just post links rather than images. Once in a while is fine, but this has been a constant with him. He always has to post images/maps [most of the time the same ones]. Links would be enough. If he posted your pics and took up your bandwidth would you be happy?

 

But no, everything is a joke with you....:tdown:

[Grand Concourse]

@Roadcruiser: Eric B is right. That map is indeed wrong. This is the right map:

 

image

Source: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/canal.html

(where you can read the whole history of the now abandoned platforms)

 

That's out of date. The 'connector platform' has been long demolished with the 's/b express track' used for n/b local service. The 'n/b express track' has been totally ripped out at Canal. There is also a switch south of the station that connects to the n/b track to both the western and eastern platforms.

[MikeGerald]

When I said the following about J-train (including the Z-train) line:

 

The J-line in Manhattan (which includes the Z-train) has essentially been reduced to a 2-track line in terms of practice and operation, except for the Essex Street, and Chambers Street stations. At the Essex Street stations there are three tracks and two platforms in operation, while at the Chambers Street station, two platforms and four tracks are used for the operation of the J-train.

 

The operative words are PRACTICE AND OPERATION, I said exactly what I meant. Including and posting trackmaps and photos of the line - which I already knew about while nice was not the point that I was making. The basic point - while the J-train line in Manhattan has had an interesting history of service, an interesting history of built features, and plenty of interesting photos and maps over the decades - its current practice and operation actually uses less of the facilities that were once provided.

 

The Chambers Street was originally built to be terminal of the line for trains coming over the Manhattan and Williamsburg Bridges, and for the possible use of LIRR trains. In addition the station was adapted for possible use as a terminal for trains coming off the nearby Brooklyn Bridge, and again later adapted for trains traveling further south by Nassau Street and a connection for the Montague Street tunnel. It was originally designed with 5 platforms and four tracks, where the south-bound side platform was demolished during the expansion of the nearby IRT Brooklyn Bridge station. Yeah, Yeah - I know all of that - none of the above explains ANYTHING about it's current PRACTICE AND OPERATION.

 

The current practice and operation of the J-train. Simple during the time when the J-train (or M-train before it was re-routed) travels to Broad Street the outer most tracks are used. During the times when J or M trains terminate at Chambers Street the two inner tracks ("express track type position"), where entering trains dump passengers on the usual south-bound platform, terminate and relay on a single track south of the station, and then the train returns to the station on the north bound track ("express track type position") takes on Queens bound riders to start a new journey. That is the practice and operation of the J-train at Chambers Street.

 

I hope this helps.

Mike

[Vistausss]

@Mike: Sorry, I misunderstood you then. I get it now

[Tbirdbassist]

Engineers in the early 20th century sure were big thinkers.

 

The climb from the relatively deep Chambers St station onto the Brooklyn bridge would have been ridiculous.

 

 

Another strange thing about that station is the relay track... It presumably ends right where the Fulton St station begins... but is it lower than the lower level track or the same height and was there any other plans made for it?

 

The Broad st relay tracks bring up questions too. Were they to head to another river tunnel? Why a diamond crossover and two tracks when a single track would suffice?

[4P3607]

Yes, the Nassau Street line in Manhattan is a very weird complex. It looks if as the Nassau Street line is just a jumble of proposed lines connected to make one line. I mean, what is the point of having 2 express tracks on the line? There is no need for them, since ALL the stations on that line are express stops. Also, it makes no sense for some of them to terminate at Canal Street since alot of the crowd is at Broad Street, Fulton Street & Chambers Street (don't get me wrong, Canal Street does also serve alot of passangers).

 

Also, at Essex Street why would there be only one southbound local track but two Northbound tracks? The middle track was not needed for anything.

 

Also, last but not least, It makes no sense to have ~5 platforms at Chambers Street! The most that's needed is 2.

 

------------------------------------------------

1st provision

What I wish they would do at Chambers Street is renovate the station. While renovating, they should wall up both the very side abandoned platforms, & open up the center platform for terminating trains. trains could then on weekends ONLY open their doors on the center platform, & use that center platform for a terminal. That way, trains could use the switches just before the North end of the station, and trains would not have to use the layup track.

 

2nd provision

Now, if the had enough money, what they should do (even though this might be a year-long project) is completly switch around chambers street, and make the layout similar to Chambers Street & WTC on the . Heres how the new switching would work:

 

-At Canal Street, There will be a new switch that connects to a new tunnel that goes below the current tracks. The tunnel then would lead to the very Eastern platforms of Chambers Street.

-The very eastern island platform would be used as a terminal. trains would terminate there & wont have to use any layup track.

-The very western island platform would be used as the service track, just like Bowery or Canal Street.

-Weekday service trains won't have to use any switch, and Southbound trains can be left as is.

-For NB trains, after leaving fulton street there will be a new tunnel that would cut across the existing layup tracks & it would lead to the current Southbound layup/terminal track. It would then enter Chambers street, then after Chambers go straight on and then connect with the other tunnel coming from the Eastern terminal NB track.

 

I'll have the layout soon.

[Guest lance25]

Or they could build a track connection from the northbound track to the southbound "local" track south of Chambers St, but north of the layup track dip. I also think it'd be a good idea to create a connection between the southbound "local" track to the layup track for when tracks terminate at Chambers St, though it isn't as needed since there's the diamond north of the station (at least according to the track maps). Then they can closed off the rest of the platforms and just use the "southbound" one. My ideas are illustrated below.

base map courtesy Michael Calcagno

[4P3607]

Yes, the Nassau Street line in Manhattan is a very weird complex. It looks if as the Nassau Street line is just a jumble of proposed lines connected to make one line. I mean, what is the point of having 2 express tracks on the line? There is no need for them, since ALL the stations on that line are express stops. Also, it makes no sense for some of them to terminate at Canal Street since alot of the crowd is at Broad Street, Fulton Street & Chambers Street (don't get me wrong, Canal Street does also serve alot of passangers).

 

Also, at Essex Street why would there be only one southbound local track but two Northbound tracks? The middle track was not needed for anything.

 

Also, last but not least, It makes no sense to have ~5 platforms at Chambers Street! The most that's needed is 2.

 

------------------------------------------------

Current Layout

 

1st provision

What I wish they would do at Chambers Street is renovate the station. While renovating, they should wall up both the very side abandoned platforms, & open up the center platform for terminating trains. trains could then on weekends ONLY open their doors on the center platform, & use that center platform for a terminal. That way, trains could use the switches just before the North end of the station, and trains would not have to use the layup track.

 

 

2nd provision

Now, if the had enough money, what they should do (even though this might be a year-long project) is completly switch around chambers street, and make the layout similar to Chambers Street & WTC on the . Heres how the new switching would work:

 

-At Canal Street, There will be a new switch that connects to a new tunnel that goes below the current tracks. The tunnel then would lead to the very Eastern platforms of Chambers Street.

-The very eastern island platform would be used as a terminal. trains would terminate there & wont have to use any layup track.

-The very western island platform would be used as the service track, just like Bowery or Canal Street.

-Weekday service trains won't have to use any switch, and Southbound trains can be left as is.

-For NB trains, after leaving fulton street there will be a new tunnel that would cut across the existing layup tracks & it would lead to the current Southbound layup/terminal track. It would then enter Chambers street, then after Chambers go straight on and then connect with the other tunnel coming from the Eastern terminal NB track.

 

Provision 3

I think this would be the CHEAPEST & most reliable thing for the to do. They leave all the tracks as is (except after fulton Street, the Northbound track would cut across the existing layup track and connect to the new NB track), and close off all the platforms except the westernmost island platform. During weekends, trains can use the layup below, and on weekends trains would just stop short at Chambers Street, & use the switch before the station. That one platform would serve around the clock:

 

All fixed up in the quote above ^^.