qjtransitmaster Posted August 30, 2011 Share #26 Posted August 30, 2011 Yep, the MCI is certainly my favorite bus... MCIs on the express bus lines for life. Those Prevosts will have to do a lot to convert me. :mad: and they will!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted August 30, 2011 Share #27 Posted August 30, 2011 One thing to keep in mind is that there is a lot more to "build quality" than just if the bus rattles a little bit - I think consistency is more the key here. Stuff like engines, wiring, electrical systems, piping, venting etc. should be installed consistently and to diagram in the entire batch of buses. The way I see it every bus rattles, and just because it rattles doesn't mean it's a bad bus. It's all about the components that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted August 30, 2011 Share #28 Posted August 30, 2011 That is actually a feature for those buses to prevent the B/Os from speeding off like crazy folk instantly. It's more like a safety precaution to prevent accidents. On a series hybrid, the electric motor is the source of propulsion. However because the electric motor is not always spinning (unlike a diesel engine which will just idle) then you are going to get that rollback from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted August 30, 2011 Share #29 Posted August 30, 2011 From a rider's perspective - I would more or less agree with your top three. They're all heavy-duty buses that are well designed for big U.S. cities and the three builders have been focused on improving their products. I would drop NABI below Gillig - they are a better-designed bus, but a poorer-manufactured one, IMO. Just my $0.02 worth. I don't think Gillig's are built as well as NABI's. There are plenty of Gillig's falling apart all over the place. My perspective comes from every angle. Funny that I saw this topic---it came up while riding 0059 with Trevor earlier. I personally think that it has gone down, and to an extent, I think that it's the feds who have caused this, with manufacturers building buses to last less long than they did in the past. If the feds decided to not pay for replacements for buses for 15-17 years, builders would build buses designed to last that long. The plan for the new RTS standard limited warranty is 15yrs/600,000mi. An industry first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted August 30, 2011 Share #30 Posted August 30, 2011 Novabus quality and Orion is legendary.Have you guys rode an orion 5 diesel through the bumpiest of streets? Or a Nova RTS? But an bus build quality is only as good as the depots maintaining it. The RTS is king of the road, that bus was built tough and its design never seemed to age as time went on, it always looks like it belongs! The Orion V isn't a far cry as well as the New Flyers of times past- I love the D60s especially! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerboy6561 Posted August 30, 2011 Share #31 Posted August 30, 2011 The RTS is king of the road, that bus was built tough and its design never seemed to age as time went on, it always looks like it belongs! The Orion V isn't a far cry as well as the New Flyers of times past- I love the D60s especially! I agree; I remember when a few of the 1991 RTSs went to die at KB in 2008-09. Those buses were old as hell by MTA standards, and they were generally really sturdy and could get up to speed no problem. I rode them on the BxSci school tripper, and we weren't exactly kind to them, and yet they rode better at eighteen than the NGs did by their first birthday. The Orion Vs I've been on have been amazing as well. Most of the ones I've been on haven't had any trouble handling crush loads of school kids on beat-up roads at pretty good speeds. I used to catch a 1999 Orion V on the 7:20 trip on the Bx10 to school (got to my house around 7:45ish and to the school about 7-8 minutes later) and it would barrel down Goulden Avenue at 35-45mph so full there were kids in both stairwells with no real problems. The 1993-96 Vs were really something too, and don't get me started on the Bee-Line 6xxs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C40LFR Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share #32 Posted August 30, 2011 My experience: 1)New Flyer 2)Neoplans 3)NABI's CompoBus 4)RTS(Most, if not all of them in So Cal are now retired) 5)NABI's Pre-2006 40-LFW 6)Gillig 7)NABI's BRT Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted August 30, 2011 Share #33 Posted August 30, 2011 I don't think Gillig's are built as well as NABI's. There are plenty of Gillig's falling apart all over the place. My perspective comes from every angle. There are cities that have had issues with NABI low-floors, Chicago being the most notable example. I'd also point out that Gilligs seem to be holding their own in Buffalo and Pittsburgh, both of which have their share of rough streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted August 30, 2011 Share #34 Posted August 30, 2011 There are cities that have had issues with NABI low-floors, Chicago being the most notable example. I'd also point out that Gilligs seem to be holding their own in Buffalo and Pittsburgh, both of which have their share of rough streets. There are also a ton of agencies having trouble with their Gillig's as well. Not to mention the ride on most of them are horrible! And I have yet to meet a driver who likes driving them. The best Gilligs I have ever come across are at the University of Michigan. Those babies are bad-ass! The ride still leaves much to be desired, but they are some good buses. Very cell maintained too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZGuy Posted August 30, 2011 Share #35 Posted August 30, 2011 There are also a ton of agencies having trouble with their Gillig's as well. Not to mention the ride on most of them are horrible! And I have yet to meet a driver who likes driving them. The best Gilligs I have ever come across are at the University of Michigan. Those babies are bad-ass! The ride still leaves much to be desired, but they are some good buses. Very cell maintained too. Talking to the guys at RIPTA their big problem is that the drivers area's is not laid out for you to sit in a comfortable way. You can raise the seat all the way up, but the steering wheel only telescopes a little bit so alot of guys end up driving hunched over. And they HATE the BRT style buses they just got. The front overhang causes so many problems at Kennedy Plaza (main downtown stop) among other places. When you have drivers fighting over RTSs and O5s you know there is a problem with the new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted August 31, 2011 Share #36 Posted August 31, 2011 Talking to the guys at RIPTA their big problem is that the drivers area's is not laid out for you to sit in a comfortable way. You can raise the seat all the way up, but the steering wheel only telescopes a little bit so alot of guys end up driving hunched over. And they HATE the BRT style buses they just got. The front overhang causes so many problems at Kennedy Plaza (main downtown stop) among other places. When you have drivers fighting over RTSs and O5s you know there is a problem with the new stuff. And that's why the problem with space and layout in the driver area has been addressed. Their is much more room on the wide front door model. The narrow front door models (MTA, RIPTA, MBTA, etc.) will still have those constraints. That's why the goal is to get everyone to go with the newer front end design for better driver comfort. I've also talked to the guys at RIPTA. They hate the Gilligs! They want new RTS's, and they want them now! This is the driver area of the RTS-06WFD & the MTS RTS-09 Photo Courtesy Kevin Lafreniere This is the classic driver area, which is on the narrow front door version. Photo Courtesy ck4049 @ Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted August 31, 2011 Share #37 Posted August 31, 2011 I've also talked to the guys at RIPTA. They hate the Gilligs! They want new RTS's, and they want them now! RIPTA is a notorious low-bid property, so you better be prepared to underbid Gillig and everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted August 31, 2011 Share #38 Posted August 31, 2011 RIPTA is a notorious low-bid property, so you better be prepared to underbid Gillig and everyone else. That's extremely easy to get around! You just have to know what you are doing. They have only been "notoriously" low bid as of late because it didn't really matter to them what they got the contract. It's wasn't an RTS, so in their opinion, it would never really be as good anyway. So we may as well go with the cheapest thing we can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZGuy Posted August 31, 2011 Share #39 Posted August 31, 2011 That's extremely easy to get around! You just have to know what you are doing. They have only been "notoriously" low bid as of late because it didn't really matter to them what they got the contract. It's wasn't an RTS, so in their opinion, it would never really be as good anyway. So we may as well go with the cheapest thing we can! Everything you said is 100% correct. That is one transit agency that is just waiting for MTS to start taking orders. They bought the O5s because the RTS was out of production and they wanted a strong high floor bus. The Gillig order is basically because since they can't get new RTSs or O5s, spend the money as cheaply as possible. I will admit that the Gilligs have actually been reliable but you can tell everybody from management down dislikes the buses. Personally I can't wait to see new RTSs "Catching the Wave!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted August 31, 2011 Share #40 Posted August 31, 2011 Did Nova fail to bid on the 2001 order that went to Orion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZGuy Posted September 3, 2011 Share #41 Posted September 3, 2011 Did Nova fail to bid on the 2001 order that went to Orion? IIRC, Nova was trying to push the LFS on them, which at the time they wanted nothing to do with a LF bus. Same thing happened with Orion....after the 04s came in, Orion tried to push the O7 and RIPTA wanted more O5s. How Gillig got in the mix I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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