What are they doing on the Belt Pkwy?

[qjtransitmaster]

I frequent the BQE, the entire Belt Parkway and Southern State Parkway.

 

Morning hours I usually frequent the Belt from Knapp Street to the Van Wyck. Night hours I frequent the entire Belt stretch, considering if I pick up a few friends from Canarsie or if I head into Queens.

 

I'm not fluent with the bus types or models and such so bare with me.

I've spotted a couple of times MTA buses on the Belt Parkway. I've spotted Express buses coming off of the Gowanus into the Belt stretch before passing Verrazano. I've seen those older model boxy type of buses between Rockaway Parkway and Cross Bay Blvd a couple of times.

 

I know for a fact that trucks and commercial vehicles are not allowed on the Belt Parkway at all, but in the case of police volume on the Belt, I've seen a lot of people get away with it (Except morning rush hours). Buses I'm not too sure but I know 100% I've seen MTA buses and only MTA buses before on the belt (Not in Service of course). I've seen the occasional school buses as well.

 

Have you seen MTA buses on the belt west of canarsie but east of knapp? You must of seen B83s as B83 uses belt from gateway mall to starrett city. But what I was asking is if you have seen MTA buses over those bridges between knapp and rockaway parkway.

Can't speak for the BQE, but in general MTA bus drivers tend to break these no commercial vehicles and weight limit restrictions because they know cops aren't gonna pull over a city bus.

 

FDR Drive north of 20th Street is no trucks and an 8,000 pound limit, but there have been many times when the X90 would use it northbound illegally all the way up to the 42nd Street exit. And nowadays ust go to 34th Street in the morning and look at how many QM buses illegally use the FDR between 34th Street and 20th Street. Only once have I seen a driver do the right thing (using the service road between 34th-25th and then Avenue C down to 20th).

 

(And I know that the MTA has some special exemption that allows them to legally use the Grand Central Parkway between the BQE and LIE)

 

ok so if their buses are not endangering the belt why not have more bus lines on the belt like a sheepshead bay to JFK express ect and such. How come MTA can't get a permit for buses to go beyond knapp street if they can go over the NEW bridges safely I don't see why not heck they can restrict it to buses shorter than 10" 6 or non cruiser buses. Cause they have big construction vehicles on belt I don't see why buses in general or just MTA can't get permits.

Heck they can widen FDR enough to relax restrictions to allow BXM lines to use it to reach downtown. Under special exemption I am sure MTA can run successful routes over the belt. Like brooklynbus' B22 idea but thanks for the insight I appreciate your knowledge.

 

I also see that QM's 34th routing to FDR is not only intentional but also shown on the map.

[Gorgor]

ok so if their buses are not endangering the belt why not have more bus lines on the belt like a sheepshead bay to JFK express ect and such. How come MTA can't get a permit for buses to go beyond knapp street if they can go over the NEW bridges safely I don't see why not heck they can restrict it to buses shorter than 10" 6 or non cruiser buses. Cause they have big construction vehicles on belt I don't see why buses in general or just MTA can't get permits.

Heck they can widen FDR enough to relax restrictions to allow BXM lines to use it to reach downtown. Under special exemption I am sure MTA can run successful routes over the belt. Like brooklynbus' B22 idea but thanks for the insight I appreciate your knowledge.

 

I also see that QM's 34th routing to FDR is not only intentional but also shown on the map.

 

 

Because routes like that ARE NOT PROFITABLE. Look at how much money the MTA is losing on EVERY SINGLE express bus route there is. Stop it.

[qjtransitmaster]

Because routes like that ARE NOT PROFITABLE. Look at how much money the MTA is losing on EVERY SINGLE express bus route there is. Stop it.

 

ok but they aren't profitable cause they are closed door. And board once that dosn't apply to belt parkway non manhattan bound express. FYI the express lines were brooklynbus' idea not mine.

 

Here is proof of belt parkway idea ans it's origin http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/proposed_system.gif

[N6 Limited]

The link doesn't work

 

Now, The Belt Parkway its one of the only highways in Brooklyn, so you're going to get drivers getting between the edge neighborhoods, as well as just using it to get to/from NJ and Staten Island from Queens and Long Island, a bus line along the belt doesn't seem feasible.

 

Now a Crosstown Route like the B6-B82 etc make sense because there are travelers that want to go east-west, go to the subway and want to go between Brooklyn and Queens, but the Belt Parkway is on the outskirts and they would have to first take a bus line to the Belt Parkway, then said Belt Parkway route to another route probably. Just not a fun idea.

[peacemak3r]

Have you seen MTA buses on the belt west of canarsie but east of knapp? You must of seen B83s as B83 uses belt from gateway mall to starrett city. But what I was asking is if you have seen MTA buses over those bridges between knapp and rockaway parkway.

 

 

Knapp Street to Van Wyck is Knapp Street to Rockaway, if you knew that area I would of expected you to know that already.

 

Any no, I don't see B83's on the Belt, all the buses I've seen on the belt were "Not in Service".

 

As GorGor says, there are technically no commercial vehicles allowed on the Belt except for Ridge Towing and DOT vehicles. But MTA bus drivers, school bus drivers and those Access-A-Ride buses drive on them anyway.

 

Secondly as N6 says, a bus route on the Belt won't work, even for express bus routes. The Belt is almost constantly packed with cars and it'll just cause delays on the Belt. Plus after the HOV lane construction is completed on the Belt-Gowanus junction, I don't think buses can merge onto those lanes afterwards.

[qjtransitmaster]

The link doesn't work

 

Now, The Belt Parkway its one of the only highways in Brooklyn, so you're going to get drivers getting between the edge neighborhoods, as well as just using it to get to/from NJ and Staten Island from Queens and Long Island, a bus line along the belt doesn't seem feasible.Your right to an extent but I did find a way around that weakness but since this is highways thread I don't think posting it here is a good idea. Bus line alone I can agree with you but once you figure out the neighborhoods with the most belt traffic the rest is child play. You will soon know why I have this handle very soon.

 

Now a Crosstown Route like the B6-B82 etc make sense because there are travelers that want to go east-west, go to the subway and want to go between Brooklyn and Queens, but the Belt Parkway is on the outskirts and they would have to first take a bus line to the Belt Parkway, then said Belt Parkway route to another route probably. Just not a fun idea.

 

Interesting I guess that was the argument for the so called (X) line over bay ridge LIRR do you think such a line will take cars off the belt rather than off buses? PM me kay. You raise a very interesting argument for that I am grateful. Reply in red.

Knapp Street to Van Wyck is Knapp Street to Rockaway, if you knew that area I would of expected you to know that already.

 

Any no, I don't see B83's on the Belt, all the buses I've seen on the belt were "Not in Service".

 

As GorGor says, there are technically no commercial vehicles allowed on the Belt except for Ridge Towing and DOT vehicles. But MTA bus drivers, school bus drivers and those Access-A-Ride buses drive on them anyway.

 

Secondly as N6 says, a bus route on the Belt won't work, even for express bus routes. The Belt is almost constantly packed with cars and it'll just cause delays on the Belt. Plus after the HOV lane construction is completed on the Belt-Gowanus junction, I don't think buses can merge onto those lanes afterwards.

 

I see the structure of my adaptation of brooklynbus's B22 is different and won't need to use that HOV. Also I have figured out a straight belt line won't work you are right. However there is another way to manipulate bus service as it must serve areas ppl want. I will PM you details as there is more to it than just MTA and belt alone. Bus lines do not need to use the entire belt parkway. Thanks for your insight I am grateful.

[peacemak3r]

The Belt gets clogged on certain hours and it'll definitely disrupt service if a bus ever runs on it. Guaranteed. With the draw bridge and just traffic jams heading to JFK or the Verrazano, a bus deserve no place on the belt.

[qjtransitmaster]

The Belt gets clogged on certain hours and it'll definitely disrupt service if a bus ever runs on it. Guaranteed. With the draw bridge and just traffic jams heading to JFK or the Verrazano, a bus deserve no place on the belt.

 

you already made an interesting argument You gave me some clue on how patterns work. without that knowledge a bus can't work properly.

[peacemak3r]

I'd say the biggest thing that may disrupt bus service would be the draw bridge. There's no concrete schedule on it but when the bridge is up, the belt halts for a good 30-40 minutes.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'd say the biggest thing that may disrupt bus service would be the draw bridge. There's no concrete schedule on it but when the bridge is up, the belt halts for a good 30-40 minutes.

 

Interesting catch However this is not an extension of existing it was not even my idea. When the bridge is redone the drawbridge will be replaced by a bridge that is high enough to allow ships to pass without the draw bridge having to go up.

[N6 Limited]

Interesting I guess that was the argument for the so called (X) line over bay ridge LIRR do you think such a line will take cars off the belt rather than off buses?

 

I don't think the X line would affect the Belt Parkway much.

The Belt gets clogged on certain hours and it'll definitely disrupt service if a bus ever runs on it. Guaranteed. With the draw bridge and just traffic jams heading to JFK or the Verrazano, a bus deserve no place on the belt.

 

you already made an interesting argument You gave me some clue on how patterns work. without that knowledge a bus can't work properly.

 

The Verrazano is a major traffic generator for the Belt Parkway especially the Brooklyn portion. Honestly, if the Verrazano was closed there wouldn't be much use for the Belt. The Queens portion is a mixture of Verrazano traffic and those just trying to get across Southern Queens.

 

Vehicles do use the Belt and Van Wyck to get to JFK but if anyone used them regularly or even monitor Google Maps traffic they'd realize that the majority of traffic is passing the airport on the Belt Parkway, and much of the Van Wyck Traffic is going to/from the Belt Parkway or Conduit Ave's (and Nassau Expressway to a lesser extent).

 

Edit: Typos

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't think the X line would affect the Belt Parkway much.

 

The Verrazano is a major traffic generator for the Belt Parkway especially the Brooklyn portion. Honestly, if the Verrazano was close there wouldn't be much use for the Belt. The Queens portion is a mixture of Verrazano traffic and those just trying to get across Southern Queens.

 

Vehicles do use the Belt and Van Wyck to get to JFK but if anyone used them regularly or even monitor Google Maps traffic they'd realize that the majority of traffic is passing the airport on the Belt Parkway, and much of the Van Wyck Traffic is going to/from the Belt Parkway or Conduit Ave's (and Nassau Expressway to a lesser extent).

 

EXACTLY that is what my perfected bus plan will tackle they will infact follow these patterns. All of this will be addressed and my lines will cater to these specifically. You hit the nail in the head well done.

[N6 Limited]

EXACTLY that is what my perfected bus plan will tackle they will infact follow these patterns. All of this will be addressed and my lines will cater to these specifically. You hit the nail in the head well done.

 

Don't underestimate the convenience of a car. The QB line can take people out of their cars, because traffic sucks and so does parking in Manhattan, not to mention there is Express E and F service. A bus line following traffic patterns won't get people out of their cars just because it exists, it has to have real time and/or cost savings.

 

Usually If I'm using the Belt Parkway going to Staten Island, it's because I'm going through Staten Island to NJ, no crosstown bus or subway line is going to help me with that. If I use the Belt Parkway in Queens it's usually to go to Brooklyn (but I take the Jackie Robinson because the Belt is always Congested). But a crosstown would wouldn't help unless I'm visiting friends in Flatbush where parking sucks and I felt like ditching the car because then I'd still have to take a Bus to the 165th st bus terminal, walk to the J train, take the J to Brooklyn, then the (X) line or whatever. If I drove, I'd get to my destination before reaching Jamaica Center. Also, you must realize that most cars using highways had to get to the highways by secondary and tertiary roads, riders would have to get to those highway-using bus routes somehow. The QB line is a transit "highway" gets heavy Patronage but the riders come from an array of places and most of them are going to Manhattan so it makes it feasible and it's a better alternative than the J. That's similar to how highways are used.

[SoSpectacular]

I would just like for whatever's being done to the Belt to be sped up because with that 35 MPH speed limit in the work zone you might as well take the local streets

 

Not that anyone really does 35 in that zone either...

[qjtransitmaster]

Don't underestimate the convenience of a car. The QB line can take people out of their cars, because traffic sucks and so does parking in Manhattan, not to mention there is Express E and F service. A bus line following traffic patterns won't get people out of their cars just because it exists, it has to have real time and/or cost savings.

 

Usually If I'm using the Belt Parkway going to Staten Island, it's because I'm going through Staten Island to NJ, no crosstown bus or subway line is going to help me with that. If I use the Belt Parkway in Queens it's usually to go to Brooklyn (but I take the Jackie Robinson because the Belt is always Congested). But a crosstown would wouldn't help unless I'm visiting friends in Flatbush where parking sucks and I felt like ditching the car because then I'd still have to take a Bus to the 165th st bus terminal, walk to the J train, take the J to Brooklyn, then the (X) line or whatever. If I drove, I'd get to my destination before reaching Jamaica Center. Also, you must realize that most cars using highways had to get to the highways by secondary and tertiary roads, riders would have to get to those highway-using bus routes somehow. The QB line is a transit "highway" gets heavy Patronage but the riders come from an array of places and most of them are going to Manhattan so it makes it feasible and it's a better alternative than the J. That's similar to how highways are used.

 

try to say that after you hear what I have specified. No details yet. Most of these will require few transfers. cause highway is just a piece of it. Remember I also have an NJT plan as well NJT doesn't have to touch belt anyway but lets just say if I had my way one could use 2 buses to NJ from canarsie,sheepshead bay or even JFK. I know those travel patterns. Don't underestimate the unknown.

 

I would just like for whatever's being done to the Belt to be sped up because with that 35 MPH speed limit in the work zone you might as well take the local streets

 

Not that anyone really does 35 in that zone either...

 

funny I don't know why they even bother with those speed limits anyway nobody follows them anyway.

[Gorgor]

try to say that after you hear what I have specified. No details yet. Most of these will require few transfers. cause highway is just a piece of it. Remember I also have an NJT plan as well NJT doesn't have to touch belt anyway but lets just say if I had my way one could use 2 buses to NJ from canarsie,sheepshead bay or even JFK. I know those travel patterns. Don't underestimate the unknown.

 

 

People are not going to ditch their cars to take multiple buses. Buses take significantly longer and require additional walking as well as much less convenience. And for a family of 4, driving will cost less than the $18 round trip a bus would cost.

 

You keep saying you have this brilliant plan, so how about you say what it is?

[N6 Limited]

try to say that after you hear what I have specified. No details yet. Most of these will require few transfers. cause highway is just a piece of it. Remember I also have an NJT plan as well NJT doesn't have to touch belt anyway but lets just say if I had my way one could use 2 buses to NJ from canarsie,sheepshead bay or even JFK. I know those travel patterns. Don't underestimate the unknown.

 

funny I don't know why they even bother with those speed limits anyway nobody follows them anyway.

 

I think they're put in in place just in case a worker gets hit, then they can use speed as a way to prosecute.

[qjtransitmaster]

People are not going to ditch their cars to take multiple buses. Buses take significantly longer and require additional walking as well as much less convenience. And for a family of 4, driving will cost less than the $18 round trip a bus would cost.

 

You keep saying you have this brilliant plan, so how about you say what it is?

 

you have a point. I'll start a new thread or PM you as I don't like how some teens here love to start crap.

[peacemak3r]

The Verrazano is a major traffic generator for the Belt Parkway especially the Brooklyn portion. Honestly, if the Verrazano was closed there wouldn't be much use for the Belt. The Queens portion is a mixture of Verrazano traffic and those just trying to get across Southern Queens.

 

 

Honestly, not true from the perspective of a driver. Besides the Verrazano and besides using the Ocean Parkway/Prospect Expressway connection to Gowanus, there are a number of people who use the Belt to merge onto the Gowanus as well. More specific people from exits 6 through 9. Obviously anyone within exits 9 to Van Wyck goes for Van Wyck anyway.

 

I think they're put in in place just in case a worker gets hit, then they can use speed as a way to prosecute.

 

 

Those have nothing to do with speed limits really. It's construction zones you are looking for with that reasoning. Even without construction zones or speed limits, you're f*cked either way if you unfortunately hit someone; Unless you have some solid proof that it wasn't your fault (dash-cam).

 

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Some unwritten things, most New Yorkers (the whole world probably also) normally travel 10 mph over the limit casually anyway. The Belt is what a 50 mph zone? Most people do 60-65. Normally I go 70ish on the Belt with no problems, but I know most of the cop spots and I can tell you that's a dead 50 zone.

[Gorgor]

\

Some unwritten things, most New Yorkers (the whole world probably also) normally travel 10 mph over the limit casually anyway. The Belt is what a 50 mph zone? Most people do 60-65. Normally I go 70ish on the Belt with no problems, but I know most of the cop spots and I can tell you that's a dead 50 zone.

 

 

In Manhattan it's pretty much go as fast as you're able to go and you'll rarely see cops checking for speed. The only cop area that I know of is on the FDR under the Brooklyn Bridge which everyone slows down to 40-50. One way avenues limit speeds to 30mph with the timed lights, but people can easily go 40-45mph on the two way avenues. One time on an early holiday morning traffic was doing about 70mph on the southbound FDR from 23rd down to around that curve after the Williamsburg Bridge, and of course coming southbound on the FDR from the GWB you can hit 75-80 occasionally on that elevated section.

[lilbluefoxie]

In Manhattan it's pretty much go as fast as you're able to go and you'll rarely see cops checking for speed. The only cop area that I know of is on the FDR under the Brooklyn Bridge which everyone slows down to 40-50. One way avenues limit speeds to 30mph with the timed lights, but people can easily go 40-45mph on the two way avenues. One time on an early holiday morning traffic was doing about 70mph on the southbound FDR from 23rd down to around that curve after the Williamsburg Bridge, and of course coming southbound on the FDR from the GWB you can hit 75-80 occasionally on that elevated section.

 

The one time I happen to be driving on the FDR Drive I was only able to hit 45-50 at most because of all the traffic and this was on a Saturday.

[N6 Limited]

Quote:

Honestly, not true from the perspective of a driver. Besides the Verrazano and besides using the Ocean Parkway/Prospect Expressway connection to Gowanus, there are a number of people who use the Belt to merge onto the Gowanus as well. More specific people from exits 6 through 9. Obviously anyone within exits 9 to Van Wyck goes for Van Wyck anyway.

 

Right, but how much traffic is there west of exits 2&3? Barren wasteland.  The Bridge generates most of the Belt's Traffic, even though it was built about 30 years afterward.

 

However, putting time into perspective, the Parkway System was built first and the Belt & Gowanus Parkways (it was converted to Expressway when the Verrazano was Built) along with the Grand Central Parkway were the only highways to Manhattan from Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island.

[peacemak3r]

You don't drive on the Belt much now-a-days do you?

 

Going westbound passing Verrazano is no wasteland during rush hours, given off-peak and night hours yeah probably.

 

Going eastbound during evening rush is another story as well, given the traffic from Verrazano, there is still considerable amount of cars coming off of Gowanus into the Belt as well.