Overheated subway train sends sparks onto Midtown tracks, delays service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Overheated subway train sends sparks onto Midtown tracks, delays service

A Northbound F Train caught fire while in the Lexington Ave.-63rd Street Stop on Oct. 30, 2017.

 (@FABOLOUSFALLON VIA TWITTER)

BYJOHN ANNESE

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Monday, October 30, 2017, 8:29 PM

An overheated subway train rattled Midtown straphangers during rush hour Monday evening, sending sparks onto the tracks and delaying service.

Several commuters took to Twitter around 6 p.m. saying a northbound F train pulling into the Lexington Ave.-63rd St. stop caught fire.

“Wtf #mta the train is on fire! #ftrain,” wrote Twitter user @FabOLOusFAllon, posting a video showing the track bed glowing bright orange underneath a subway car as several people got off the train.

An FDNY spokesman said the train overheated, transit officials evacuated it and then removed it from the station.

An MTA representative said the video didn’t show flames, but rather sparks coming from the train’s undercarriage.

The MTA resumed F train service shortly before 7 p.m.

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/overheated-subway-train-sends-sparks-tracks-delays-service-article-1.3600216

[CTK246]

So are we going to keep pretending the R46s don't need to be retired?

[itmaybeokay]

1 minute ago, CTK246 said:

So are we going to keep pretending the R46s don't need to be retired?

Oh they're fine. Just cuomo-wrap'em and paint up the inside like a mid 1990's chuck-e-cheeze. They'll be perfect. Tell everyone derailments and fires are just part of the fun!

My Man! Exactly what we needed!

(and by that I mean, get these fking things off the road asap)

[N6 Limited]

11 minutes ago, CTK246 said:

So are we going to keep pretending the R46s don't need to be retired?

At least it happened in the station where people were able to leave the train, as opposed to between stations with locked end doors. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What I found comical was on the  website (posted below), the  had the nerve to say that "new" trains were put on the  line.  Then I read more closely... They're not new at all.  Just slightly refurbished.  Such lies they tell... Last time I checked "new" wasn't refurbished...  We need new cars.  All of this damn testing.  Get those new trains out and running.  I mean the ones they are testing look pretty similar to ones we already have so what is taking so long?  Besides with all of the mechanical problems some of these trains have it's not like it's reducing the number of delays on that end.  I was on a  train this morning.  The chime noise was so loud and annoying.  I wish they would replace all of those damn R62 and R62A trains too.  The only air you get is in the middle of damn car and it's always so hot on those trains. In the summertime, it's like riding in hell, as most of those cars are sweat boxes with no AC.

----- 

Subway Action Plan Update: New Subway Cars on E Line

October 03rd, 2017

Riders on the  line may now notice a new addition to their commute. As part of Chairman Joseph Lhota’s Subway Action Plan to stabilize and improve the subway system and lay the foundation for modernization, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has launched refurbished and reconfigured R-160 cars on the  line.

The cars are part of a 100-car pilot designed to increase the capacity and enhance the performance reliability of the subway car fleet. Each of the trainsets had the “master controllers” – which are responsible for the braking and acceleration of the trains – replaced. The master controllers were identified as one of the leading causes of failures on the R-160’s. Additionally, seats were removed at the ends of each of the cars to increase capacity and reduce the time it takes for passengers to get on and off the trains. The seat removal is expected to increase the capacity of each train by between 80 and 100 passengers.

“Providing a safe and reliable ride is what our customers demand and what the MTA is determined to deliver through our Subway Action Plan. We do not have time to waste when it comes to improving the customer experience and service for our riders,” said Joseph Lhota, MTA Chairman. “This pilot goes directly to the heart of that goal by attacking a significant cause of failures on these cars and making a fast, targeted improvement. We also know that getting more passengers onto trains, in a more efficient manner, is absolutely essential – which is why we’re piloting the removal of select number of seats.

The refurbished and reconfigured  trains also include:

Improved stanchions and hand rails to enhance customer comfort and safety.

Display LCD screens in all cars to provide customers with better information.

LED lighting to improve lighting and reduce energy consumption.

Interior and exterior wrapping of the cars for customers to identify Pilot Trains, as well as car exterior indicators to identify the cars that have the modified seating arrangement.

The NYC Subway Action Plan is designed to stabilize and improve the subway system and lay the foundation for modernizing the New York City Subway. NYC Transit continues to move forward with plans to test a pilot program on other select lines, including the Times Square  shuttle and the  line, to remove seats to allow greater standing. Additionally, on lines where platforms are long enough to accommodate more cars, such as the Eighth Avenue  line, cars will be added to train sets to increase capacity.

Subway Action Plan: New Subway Cars

Source: http://www.mta.info/news/2017/10/03/subway-action-plan-update-new-subway-cars-e-line

[RR503]

17 minutes ago, CTK246 said:

So are we going to keep pretending the R46s don't need to be retired?

All cars have their issues. Immediately blaming this fire on one specific to 46s before we know all the facts seems like reckless speculation. 

My money is on debris getting caught on the train. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, RR503 said:

All cars have their issues. Immediately blaming this fire on an issuss specific to 46s — when it could have very well been just debris on the tracks — seems like reckless speculation. 

I'm sorry I disagree.  The  is known for its piss poor maintenance.  On top of that they then try to run the trains into the ground. Like really, you can't have it both ways.  They need better maintenance and if they aren't going to maintain their fleet better, then buy cars more frequently. That's the other problem though. When they buy new cars, they let them get filthy before refurbishing them and cleaning them.  Some hot water and soap can't possibly cost that much, and then they had the nerve to cut cleaners.  

 

I'd like to see a report of how many delays are the result of "mechanical failures". I'm sure it's right up there with signal delays, and yet they claimed they were spending $20 million dollars or whatever it was to mitigate such issues.  Well apparently they haven't been spending it.

[N6 Limited]

What does "Cleaning" involve other than a quick sweep and ineffective mopping at the terminal?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

What does "Cleaning" involve other than a quick sweep and ineffective mopping at the terminal?

lol... Supposedly the interiors get a thorough cleaning every so often, though I'm not sure how frequent that is (maybe once a year?), which is exactly why I never sit down, no matter how long the ride is and I try to avoid touching anything. People cannot refrain from putting their filthy shoes all over the seats too, which is another turn-off for me.  Given how filthy the platforms are in most stations, I'd say they've been cutting back on cleaning in general.  

[RR503]

48 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm sorry I disagree.  The  is known for its piss poor maintenance.  On top of that they then try to run the trains into the ground. Like really, you can't have it both ways.  They need better maintenance and if they aren't going to maintain their fleet better, then buy cars more frequently. That's the other problem though. When they buy new cars, they let them get filthy before refurbishing them and cleaning them.  Some hot water and soap can't possibly cost that much, and then they had the nerve to cut cleaners.  

 

I'd like to see a report of how many delays are the result of "mechanical failures". I'm sure it's right up there with signal delays, and yet they claimed they were spending $20 million dollars or whatever it was to mitigate such issues.  Well apparently they haven't been spending it.

You don’t disagree. In fact I agree with what you’re saying, but I still don’t think it’s right to jump to conclusions about this being a 46 issue. “Piss poor” mx will affect all cars, not just the 46s. And if it has something to do with the fact that these cars feel it more because they’re old, you’re right, but there are 32s and 42s that are all older.. 

You can find the incident/MBDF data here btw http://dashboard.mta.info/

[RailRunRob]

Was that the resistor on fire? R46's use rheostatic/dynamic breaking correct? Maybe there was an issue there. Voltage to heat could cause a fire after all seems isolated IMO.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, RR503 said:

You don’t disagree. In fact I agree with what you’re saying, but I still don’t think it’s right to jump to conclusions. “Piss poor” mx will affect all cars, not just the 46s. And if it has something to do with the fact that these cars feel it more because they’re old, you’re right, but there are 32s and 42s that are all older.. 

We both know that those older cars are better overall from a function standpoint.  They're ugly as hell, but they're far more practical than the R46s.  I find the AC on them to be better too.

[itmaybeokay]

14 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Was that the resistor on fire? R46's use rheostatic/dynamic breaking correct? Maybe there was an issue there. Voltage to heat could cause a fire after all seems isolated IMO.

Looks about the location of the resistor grid. They use both pnuematic and dynamic brakes. Crud on the grid could have caused a short, or a small fire. 

14 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We both know that those older cars are better overall from a function standpoint.  They're ugly as hell, but they're far more practical than the R46s.  I find the AC on them to be better too.

Surely you jest... the 32 better than the 46? In number of doors and seating arrangement yes. The AC is so bad they have to be swapped off the C in the summertime, and the MDBF is less than half that of the 46 - statistically. 

16 minutes ago, RR503 said:

You don’t disagree. In fact I agree with what you’re saying, but I still don’t think it’s right to jump to conclusions about this being a 46 issue. “Piss poor” mx will affect all cars, not just the 46s. And if it has something to do with the fact that these cars feel it more because they’re old, you’re right, but there are 32s and 42s that are all older.. 

You can find the incident/MBDF data here btw http://dashboard.mta.info/

the 32s the 42s and the 46 all need to be retired. It's not about jumping to conclusions, it's about in the past few years there being a rash of derailments, strandings and fires involving the 46. 

I'd say "where there's smoke there's fire" but in this case there seems to actually be a small fire so.... 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, itmaybeokay said:

Looks about the location of the resistor grid. They use both pnuematic and dynamic brakes. Crud on the grid could have caused a short, or a small fire. 

Surely you jest... the 32 better than the 46? In number of doors and seating arrangement yes. The AC is so bad they have to be swapped off the C in the summertime, and the MDBF is less than half that of the 46 - statistically. 

the 32s the 42s and the 46 all need to be retired. It's not about jumping to conclusions, it's about in the past few years there being a rash of derailments, strandings and fires involving the 46. 

I'd say "where there's smoke there's fire" but in this case there seems to actually be a small fire so.... 

I realize that it's been a while since I've actually rode those trains, but I've had good experiences with them. No question that the 32s, 42s and 46s need to go, but in terms of prioritizing, I'd say the 46s for sure.  Hideous interiors, terrible AC, and warped floors are an instant turnoff.  Another reason I hate riding the  and the  if an R160 doesn't come.

[RailRunRob]

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We both know that those older cars are better overall from a function standpoint.  They're ugly as hell, but they're far more practical than the R46s.  I find the AC on them to be better too.

r32/42 are simpler overall the MTA tried something different not so crazy at the time the 73 tube stock in London shares some parallels.  

[RailRunRob]

3 minutes ago, itmaybeokay said:

Looks about the location of the resistor grid. They use both pnuematic and dynamic brakes. Crud on the grid could have caused a short, or a small fire. 

1

I'm sure that's what it is. It's a machine there are at least 20 systems working concurrently to make a 600-foot monster move if any one of the things is even off a bit... things happen.  

[RR503]

15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I realize that it's been a while since I've actually rode those trains, but I've had good experiences with them. No question that the 32s, 42s and 46s need to go, but in terms of prioritizing, I'd say the 46s for sure.  Hideous interiors, terrible AC, and warped floors are an instant turnoff.  Another reason I hate riding the  and the  if an R160 doesn't come.

Asthetics are only part of the game. Look, as much as I love the 32s for their RFWs and nostalgia value, they’re scrap rolling. Maybe they do have nicer interiors than the 46s, but when a car is breaking down every 30,000 miles, it’s time. The 46s, while old, still give an MBDF of ~75,000 mi — higher than the 142As if I may point out. 

I was on a  train this summer, a few days after the myrtle shutdown began, and given commuter confusion and the line’s abysmal headways, it was crushloaded. There were also 2 broken doors in the set, something I mentioned to the T/O as I got off. Laughing, he said he was aware, but also that “if we took 32s out of service every time a door broke, there would be no  line.” So sure, the 46s may have interiors that are 50 shades of vomit, but at least they get commuters where they’re going. I think — especially given current problems — that should be priority #1.

[N6 Limited]

51 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol... Supposedly the interiors get a thorough cleaning every so often, though I'm not sure how frequent that is (maybe once a year?), which is exactly why I never sit down, no matter how long the ride is and I try to avoid touching anything. People cannot refrain from putting their filthy shoes all over the seats too, which is another turn-off for me.  Given how filthy the platforms are in most stations, I'd say they've been cutting back on cleaning in general.  

Oh ok it doesn't look like the seats get wiped or anything

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Oh ok it doesn't look like the seats get wiped or anything

Oh believe me I know, hence my comment.  They certainly don't clean the buses that often. It's absurd that they put the buses through the wash on a regular basis but don't clean the interiors.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Asthetics are only part of the game. Look, as much as I love the 32s for their RFWs and nostalgia value, they’re scrap rolling. Maybe they do have nicer interiors than the 46s, but when a car is breaking down every 30,000 miles, it’s time. The 46s, while old, still give an MBDF of ~75,000 mi — higher than the 142As if I may point out. 

I was on a  train this summer, a few days after the myrtle shutdown began, and given commuter confusion and the line’s abysmal headways, it was crushloaded. There were also 2 broken doors in the set, something I mentioned to the T/O as I got off. Laughing, he said he was aware, but also that “if we took 32s out of service every time a door broke, there would be no  line.” So sure, the 46s may have interiors that are 50 shades of vomit, but at least they get commuters where they’re going. I think — especially given current problems — that should be priority #1.

lol That's a joke, especially given the latest episodes with the R46, least you forget those trapped passengers on the  train.  I don't have nostalgia for any of those old trains.  If I had it my way, they would be serving as reefs just like those other crappy cars that were retired because that's exactly where they belong - you can include those R62 and R62A trains too.  We need to move into the 21st century, and at some point rehabbing these old cars just doesn't cut it.  

[RR503]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol That's a joke, especially given the latest episodes with the R46, least you forget those trapped passengers on the  train.  I don't have nostalgia for any of those old trains.  If I had it my way, they would be serving as reefs just like those other crappy cars that were retired because that's exactly where they belong - you can include those R62 and R62A trains too.  We need to move into the 21st century, and at some point rehabbing these old cars just doesn't cut it.  

Really? You're calling the data I presented -- lifted directly from the MTA link above -- fake news? Sure, there was that high-profile incident with the  over the summer, but all cars have their moments. The derailment at 125, and in all probability this incident today had nothing to do intrinsically with the design of the 46 -- they were incidental. 

I too would have all old cars sitting at the bottom of the ocean in a perfect world, but given that money doesn't grow on trees, I can't. We have to prioritize. The worst cases get treatment first, and it is generally agreed that those are the 42s and 32s. I'm in no way advocating we send the 46s through some sort of second rebuild program, but I'd infinitely rather keep them than the 32s until the 211s arrive. At least they run. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RR503 said:

Really? You're calling the data I presented -- lifted directly from the MTA link above -- fake news? Sure, there was that high-profile incident with the  over the summer, but all cars have their moments. The derailment at 125, and in all probability this incident today had nothing to do intrinsically with the design of the 46 -- they were incidental. 

I too would have all old cars sitting at the bottom of the ocean in a perfect world, but given that money doesn't grow on trees, I can't. We have to prioritize. The worst cases get treatment first, and it is generally agreed that those are the 42s and 32s. I'm in no way advocating we send the 46s through some sort of second rebuild program, but I'd infinitely rather keep them than the 32s until the 211s arrive. At least they run. 

The R46s should go before simply because of safety concerns.  You can't go through the doors to reach another car in an emergency unless personnel is there.  That alone is a no-no for me. 

[itmaybeokay]

3 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Really? You're calling the data I presented -- lifted directly from the MTA link above -- fake news? Sure, there was that high-profile incident with the  over the summer, but all cars have their moments. The derailment at 125, and in all probability this incident today had nothing to do intrinsically with the design of the 46 -- they were incidental. 

I too would have all old cars sitting at the bottom of the ocean in a perfect world, but given that money doesn't grow on trees, I can't. We have to prioritize. The worst cases get treatment first, and it is generally agreed that those are the 42s and 32s. I'm in no way advocating we send the 46s through some sort of second rebuild program, but I'd infinitely rather keep them than the 32s until the 211s arrive. At least they run. 

It sounds like we agree - the 46 has to go but the 32 has to go first. 

I don't think it's a design problem, I think it's just an age problem. 

[RailRunRob]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The R46s should go before simply because of safety concerns.  You can't go through the doors to reach another car in an emergency unless personnel is there.  That alone is a no-no for me. 

So should the 68's with that metric.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

So should the 68's with that metric.

I forgot about these, but yes they should go as well.  Another set of cars with safety issues and horrible AC.  I think we're seeing a pattern here... Horrible HVAC, poorly designed seats, and no way to escape in the event of an emergency with dark lighting, not to mention warped floors which are always fun if you need to get out in a hurry.  I can't for the life of me understand why there is only circulating in the middle of these cars. If you're not in that area, forget it.  There is no air circulating at all. All of these packed on the train with their coats giving off heat.  I usually have ride with my coat off. Just way too hot.