Overheated subway train sends sparks onto Midtown tracks, delays service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

VG8 if you keep giving someone medical advice and pov's at some point someones going to ask if you're a doctor.  Of course, things break down over time that's a given but when you start comparing design and technology ah yes where the data and your credentials? It's okay to say you don't like the cars I'm not a fan of the R46 myself but I have to respect the fact they moved billions of people over the years all that cosmetic talk what does that mean? Somebody physically designed and built them then for 40 years folks had to maintain/operate them.That's my perspective having a background in the rail industry albeit a short one I have to respect that people work hard on all 3 sides design, build and maintenance. Your right I am a prick why would you listen to anyone that hasn't done the job? How could that person possibly understand what it's about or entails? That's silly. Why would I work my ass off to learn and establish myself all these years to have someone get by on options? That's crazy talk listen to yourself.  If someone's been operating trains for 30 years what could I tell them? I haven't so I shut up and listen and get feedback there in the field. Everyone's the master of transit until you stand next to a Motorman or the designer and engineer. Knowledge is one thing but the application is everything. Like saying you know how to fight.. but the bigger question is have you ever fought before?...  Hey, you know what this little lane with rolling stock, design and buildout I have some experience there I can back that up. Im, sure there's someone here that maybe know more and that's okay I'm open to learn.  But I'll be a prick i've put that work in and I'm battle-tested. 

All of this that just said has NOTHING to do with the facts.  The trains NEED to be replaced!  I don't see what technical experience has to do with it, nor your "respect" for motorman or these trains being "maintained", which is also BS.  The  runs their buses and trains into the ground, so this nonsense about them being so well maintained is just a lie. I don't need any technical skills to know that when I see floors that are warped on those R46s that they need to be replaced, as they present safety issues for passengers. I also don't need any technical skills to know that having cars LOCKED where passengers can't get out in an emergency is a hazard.  None of these things require technical skills, but you throw this BS into every conversation to make yourself sound so knowledgeable.  I have experience with construction, but that has nothing to do with this topic, so I wouldn't include it. You have a problem editing yourself at times.  A big one in fact.

I haven't compared technology and design, YOU have.  What I've focused on is the bare bones, common sense things, which is the age of these trains, them being safety hazards and the need for them to be retired.  Pretty simple stuff.  I suppose that advocacy groups also need to be experts on how trains work when they advocate for better service.  I'll answer that. NO, they don't.  That's the  's job, and that's what they have engineers for, but when it comes to safety and reliable service, no one needs a degree to understand common sense sh*t.

[RailRunRob]

32 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

All of this that just said has NOTHING to do with the facts.  The trains NEED to be replaced!  I don't see what technical experience has to do with it, nor your "respect" for motorman or these trains being "maintained", which is also BS.  The  runs their buses and trains into the ground, so this nonsense about them being so well maintained is just a lie. I don't need any technical skills to know that when I see floors that are warped on those R46s that they need to be replaced, as they present safety issues for passengers. I also don't need any technical skills to know that having cars LOCKED where passengers can't get out in an emergency is a hazard.  None of these things require technical skills, but you throw this BS into every conversation to make yourself sound so knowledgeable.  I have experience with construction, but that has nothing to do with this topic, so I wouldn't include it. You have a problem editing yourself at times.  A big one in fact.

I haven't compared technology and design, YOU have.  What I've focused on is the bare bones, common sense things, which is the age of these trains, them being safety hazards and the need for them to be retired.  Pretty simple stuff.  I suppose that advocacy groups also need to be experts in how trains work when they advocate for better service.  I'll answer that.. NO, they don't.  That's the  's job, and that's what they have engineers for, but what it comes to safety and reliable service, no one needs a degree to understand common sense sh*t.

Okay so then call the MTA I tell them to get the assembly line going. You know there expediting the new car orders! I was there talking to the MTA engineers a few months ago both at there office and at there event. There's nothing you're saying that they didn't already know from what I gathered. The floors are warped okay there maintaining the cars as best they can under the circumstances I commend the folks working maintenance. The doors are a hazard okay so what do we take 700 cars out of service? Somebody 45 years ago thought it was a good idea to have 75foot cars ohhh man clearance somebody could fall.. well that was a mistake we won't be doing that again (R40's come to mind). That was Inherited again what more can you do but work diligently to get them replaced as quickly as possible? R211's. Not saying the advocacy groups are wrong for keeping the MTA accountable. And yes I know the MTA has engineers for that I know a few.  Listen do we really need more whistleblowing by people that really can't do anything to help the situation? Everyone looking and pointing at the fire but not helping to put it out.  We see the flaws and the holes the MTA is coming out of dark period the cars should have been retired already. We know we know we know.  The question is what can the MTA do you know construction(Even worst) then you know it take's time to secure materials and set up your pipeline for manufacturing. This goes for your Subway cars and your iPhone why on God's green Earth would someone state the obvious unless well..maybe they just love to complain?  VG8 what expertise could you bestow on us?  What do you think the MTA could do to get these dreaded R46's out of here before 2020? I remember you saying monies are tight around these parts.  Next time I talk to my Engineer friends I'll let them know because they don't have a clue. Figure this out we'll work on getting you that honorary degree you'd deserve it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Okay so then call the MTA I tell them to get the assembly line going. You know there expediting the new car orders! I was there talking to the MTA engineers a few months ago both at there office and at there event. There's nothing you're saying that didn't already know from what I gathered. The floors are warped okay there maintaining the cars as best they can under the circumstances I commend the folks working maintenance.. The doors are a hazard okay so what do we take 700 cars out of service? Somebody 45 years ago thought it was a good idea to have 75foot cars ohhh man clearance somebody could fall.. well that was a mistake we won't be doing that again (R40's come to mind). That was Inherited again what more can you do but work diligently to get them replaced as quickly as possible? R211's. Not saying the advocacy groups are wrong for keeping the MTA accountable. And yes I know the MTA has engineers for that I know a few.  Listen do we really need more whistleblowing by people that really can't do anything to help the situation? Everyone looking and pointing at the fire but not helping to put it out.  We see the flaws and the holes the MTA is coming out of dark period the cars should have been retired already. We know we know we know.  The question is what can the MTA do you know construction(Even worst) then you know then you know it take's time to secure materials and set up your pipeline for manufacturing. This goes for your Subway cars and your iPhone why on God's green Earth you someone state the obvious unless well..maybe they just love to complain?  VG8 what expertise you bestow on us?  What do you think the MTA could do to get these dreaded R46's out of here before 2020? I remember you say monies in tight around these parts.  Next time i talk to my Engineer friends i'll them know because they don't have a clue. Figure this out we'll work on getting you that honorary degree you'd deserve it.

It's funny that you bend over backwards trying to defend other people that "complain", like those women that want their strollers on the buses, and you then come out with all of these useless configurations about how to accommodate them when it's already been well established as why they aren't allowed, but when others point out issues with the system, your stance quickly changes.  My question is what is being done with the $20 or so odd million that they claimed they were using to mitigate these sorts of delays?  No, I'm not letting them off of the hook because quite frankly it's been business as usual with regards to train service. There hasn't been any noticeable improvements since they made that announcement a few months ago.

To answer your question, yes, we need more whistle blowing until they get their act together.

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's funny that you bend over backwards trying to defend other people that "complain", like those women that want their strollers on the buses, and you then come out with all of these useless configurations about how to accommodate them when it's already been well established as why they aren't allowed, but when others point out issues with the system, your stance quickly changes.  My question is what is being done with the $20 or so odd million that they claimed they were using to mitigate these sorts of delays?  No, I'm not letting them off of the hook because quite frankly it's been business as usual with regards to train service. There hasn't been any noticeable improvements since they made that announcement a few months ago.

To answer your question, yes, we need more whistle blowing until they get their act together.

2

Listen Science, Engineering, and Technology are the pillars of society. We push sh*t forward period without engineers like me and objective thinkers you wouldn't  even have a computer or an internet to voice your opinions or buses or train's to ride and enjoy. Objective thinking brings this all into existence. The one thing you learn as an engineer is that humans have the worst data collection tools. We see the world by perception not good for moving progress forward. Why we create tools to extend that perception or remove it all together. So in the same way you're saying you're on the MTA and not letting up is the same way I feel about personal truths. Again I have nothing against personal opinions but at some point, the rubber has to meet the road. The 21st century is really going to be about Intellectual /Financial capital if you don't already know. Opinions are going to have to start producing period. Letting them off the hook? I'm not saying the MTA isn't bloated most large Organizations stuffer from this. Kawasaki did and so did Apple when I was there. Two different industries same issues. I don't know your background so I'm not going to assume. But if you've ever worked management middle or upper at any large organization you know it's chaotic and you know there's always going to be someone that's never happy always no matter how much you try. The MTA as some talented people but the MTA is also in a peculiar spot with Albany having its hands in the pot as well.  I don't pretend to have the answers or even know whether this could even be fixed with the current dynamics. What did they do with $20 million? umm ahh, what does that have to do with what we're talking about? I don't know the current going rate nowadays I know that $20 can't even buy two full subway trains I'm sure that doesn't go too far to repair cars as well. But what I do see is more Platform attendants, A few more cleaners at least at Brooklyn Museum and Franklin Ave. I saw them laying some CBTC hardware on the 8th ave line.. oh and clocks! How do you know this not from the $20 million. And you see that's my point? How do you even know how to gauge on long it even takes begin to see improvements?  Is it 6 months a year? Two years? How do you know from the outside? How do you gauge accountability without understanding the inner workings of a Organization? Is it based on the Post? A.M New York what?

To your point with strollers if I'm the person designing your Bus it's not my job to bring personal observations and opinions into that process. It's my job to hear every argument point of view and try to cover all the different possibilities and capacity that the vehicle may serve or may see in service. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that as the whistleblower All you do is critique other peoples work. The same NOVA buses on New York streets also serve open strollers within the CTA's system not peak hours but stil. So why wouldn't I ask the question and seek a solution if possible? Whats so wrong with that?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Listen Science, Engineering, and Technology are the pillars of society. We push sh*t forward period without engineers like me and objective thinkers you wouldn't  even have a computer or an internet to voice your opinions or buses or train's to ride and enjoy. Objective thinking brings this all into existence. The one thing you learn as an engineer is that humans have the worst data collection tools. We see the world by perception not good for moving progress forward. Why we create tools to extend that perception or remove it all together. So in the same way you're saying you're on the MTA and not letting up is the same way I feel about personal truths. Again I have nothing against personal opinions but at some point, the rubber has to meet the road. The 21st century is really going to be about Intellectual /Financial capital if you don't already know. Opinions are going to have to start producing period. Letting them off the hook? I'm not saying the MTA isn't bloated most large Organizations stuffer from this. Kawasaki did and so did Apple when I was there. Two different industries same issues. I don't know your background so I'm not going to assume. But if you've ever worked management middle or upper at any large organization you know it's chaotic and you know there's always going to be someone that's never happy always no matter how much you try. The MTA as some talented people but the MTA is also in a peculiar spot with Albany having its hands in the pot as well.  I don't pretend to have the answers or even know whether this could even be fixed with the current dynamics. What did they do with $20 million? umm ahh, what does that have to do with what we're talking about? I don't know the current going rate nowadays I know that $20 can even buy two full subway trains I'm sure that doesn't go too far to repair cars as well. But what I do see is more Platform attendants, A few more cleaners at least at Brooklyn Museum and Franklin Ave. I saw them laying some CBTC hardware on the 8th ave line..  clocks! How do you know this not from the $20 million. And you see that's my point? How do you even know how to gauge on long it even takes begin to see improvements?  Is it 6 months a year? Two years? How do you know from the outside? How do you gauge accountability without understanding the inner workings of a Organization? Is it based on the Post? A.M New York what?

To your point with strollers if I'm the person designing your Bus it's not my job to bring personal observations and opinions into that process. It's my job to hear every argument point of view and try to cover all the different possibilities and capacity that the vehicle may serve or may see in service. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that as the whistleblower All you do is critique other peoples work. The same NOVA buses on New York streets also serve open strollers within the CTA's system not peak hours but stil. So why wouldn't I ask the question and seek a solution if possible? Whats so wrong with that?

Dude, do even bother to read a newspaper? The  personally announced a few months ago that they were using at least $20 million dollars specifically to mitigate delays, acknowledging that the delays were growing and needed to be addressed, which means things like having personnel check trains before they go into service, and this was even posted on this website, so it's a legitimate question.   It most certainly wasn't for things like countdown clocks.  If you wasn't so busy talking endlessly about the importance of engineers, maybe you could focus on the basics for once.  There's nothing wrong with talking technical points, but you focus so much on that and not enough on common sense and then claim that you know about the basics.

[RailRunRob]

15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Dude, do even bother to read a newspaper? The  personally announced a few months ago that they were using at least $20 million dollars specifically to mitigate delays, acknowledging that the delays were growing and needed to be addressed, which means things like having personnel check trains before they go into service, and this was even posted on this website, so it's a legitimate question.   It most certainly wasn't for things like countdown clocks.  If you wasn't so busy talking endlessly about the importance of engineers, maybe you could focus on the basics for once.  There's nothing wrong with talking technical points, but you focus so much on that and not enough on common sense and then claim that you know about the basics.

I saw the press and was at the event. How do you know that's not happening one? And two how much could you really expect from 20 million when Infrastructure dictates's most of that?  You might as well walk into the Porsche dealership with $2,000 and try to drive out paying cash.. Drop in the bucket.  Train checks? All your talking about is more optimization, not any type of expansion your not adding anything just not taking anything away.. So if your train runs on schedule without any slowdowns that's your win right there those seconds add up Especially on the MTA's scale. But all of this floats on top of Other antiquated systems signaling being a major. We're talking a quarter to half a trillion to get everything up to code. 20 million. That's PR right there. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

I saw the press and was at the event. How do you know that's not happening one? And two how much could you really expect from 20 million when Infrastructure dictates's most of that?  You might as well walk into the Porsche dealership with $2,000 and try to drive out paying cash.. Drop in the bucket.  Train checks? All you talking about is more optimization, not any type of expansion your not adding anything just not taking anything away.. So if your train runs on schedule without any slowdowns that your win right there those seconds add up Especially on the MTA's scale. But all of this floats on top of Other antiquated systems signaling being a major. We're talking a quarter to half a trillion to get everything up to code. 20 million. That's PR right there. 

There's been no evidence to suggest that it is happening. Delays are worsening, and from what I've seen, it's been mainly due to "mechanical problems", not signals or infrastructure.  If they can't do anything with $20 million dollars to get trains running out of the yard any better then there's a serious problem.  It isn't a fortune, but it isn't pennies either.  The Capital Plan is a separate thing entirely.

[RailRunRob]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There's been no evidence to suggest that it is happening. Delays are worsening, and from what I've seen, it's been mainly due to "mechanical problems", not signals or infrastructure.  

Again if a day with fewer Incidences is the goal because something is always going to go wrong.. Is there a log with daily Incidents and delays? Furthermore, it's going to take a few months to even measure any analytics. Not saying yes or no just saying how can I gauge?  I've seen more switching signal issues from my POV there were issues at 168th just this morning coming in. Anyone else has an idea which Is the cause of more delays? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, RailRunRob said:

Again if a day with fewer Incidences is the goal because something is always going to go wrong.. Is there a log with daily Incidents and delays? Furthermore, it's going to take a few months to even measure any analytics. Not saying yes or no just saying how can I gauge?  I've seen more switching signal issues from my POV there were issues at 168th just this morning coming in. Anyone else has an idea which Is the cause of more delays? 

I'm going off of what I see posted on the  website as to the cause of the latest delays.  I'm not at all saying that signal problems aren't still an issue.  Nevertheless, we won't know anything with certainty until the  comes out with updated figures as to the source of delays, and even that I'd take with a grain of salt.  The other problem is they themselves put out incorrect information about the source of the delays.  It doesn't cost anything to provide accurate information. Instead they've continued with the BS lies such as things like train traffic being ahead when some of these delays have nothing to do with that at all.

[RailRunRob]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm going off of what I see posted on the  website as to the cause of the latest delays.  I'm not at all saying that signal problems aren't still an issue.  Nevertheless, we won't know anything with certainty until the  comes out with updated figures as to the source of delays, and even that I'd take with a grain of salt.  The other problem is they themselves put out incorrect information about the source of the delays.  It doesn't cost anything to provide accurate information. Instead they've continued with the BS lies such as things like train traffic being ahead when some of these delays have nothing to do with that at all.

 OK so accountability starts from the top.  Cuomo is the boss the buck stops with him. Why not hold him to the fire. The MTA does his bidding correct? This energy should be directed there no? He has to audit the MTA get that fire under them.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RailRunRob said:

 OK so accountability starts from the top.  Cuomo is the boss the buck stops with him. Why not hold him to the fire. The MTA does his bidding correct? This energy should be directed there no? He has to audit the MTA get that fire under them.

I'm not so sure something like this is Cuomo's problem.  That's what he has a President of the  for, not to mention all of the other upper level management at the agency.  I would be looking at Lhota.  It was him that promised more transparency with regards to train delays, and so far I haven't seen it.  Just last week, there was literally a shut down of the  line from 42nd to 96th street.  First they had Southbound service changed and then everything was shut down due to NYPD activity.  

[RailRunRob]

34 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm not so sure something like this is Cuomo's problem.  That's what he has a President of the  for, not to mention all of the other upper level management at the agency.  I would be looking at Lhota.  It was him that promised more transparency with regards to train delays, and so far I haven't seen it.  Just last week, there was literally a shut down of the  line from 42nd to 96th street.  First they had Southbound service changed and then everything was shut down due to NYPD activity.  

Who appointed Lhota? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Who appointed Lhota? 

Obviously Cuomo, but the governor has more things to deal with like running the state. That's what Lhota and the others are there for.  It seems as if anything that happens with the  automatically becomes Cuomo's fault.  That's just foolish.

[RailRunRob]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Obviously Cuomo, but the governor has more things to deal with like running the state. That's what Lhota and the others are there for.  It seems as if anything that happens with the  automatically becomes Cuomo's fault.  That's just foolish.

But if you're telling me Lhota's not doing his job and being accountable. Why talk to the underling  wouldn't you tap the boss and work down?  Only he can find someone that can. I'm not going to argue with the manager when I can talk to the owner. That's how sh*t get done around here. Seriously 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, RailRunRob said:

But if you're telling me Lhota's not doing his job and being accountable. Why talk to the underling  wouldn't you tap the boss and work down?  Find someone that can. I'm not going to argue with the manager when I can talk to the owner. That's how sh*t get done around here. haha 

You're comparing the private sector to a public agency. Completely different animal.

[RailRunRob]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You're comparing the private sector to a public agency. Completely different animal.

If the subways arent running. The State is losing money period. You have to pay the cost to be the boss man. Everything's connected to the green... Public ..private 

[quadcorder]

Can you two take your argument to private messages? It's doing nobody else any good.

[R68OnBroadway]

32s, 42s, and 46s will have to go within the next 5-10 years, but the 68s can probably stay until 2030. Considering all the interior testing they are doing, I wouldn't be surprised if they renovate those. HVAC can be fixed easily if they give the cars a moderate overhaul. However, Cuomo will probably just paint them into a daycare center and put some crappy new color-flashing LEDs. 

[Lance]

I always find threads like these amusing, simply for all of the guessing and armchair managing that comes out of them. Do we even know what happened here? Did the train clip something, like it did the last time something like this happened? In this whole thread, I do not see anything that mentions the actual cause of the incident. I do see a lot of complaints about the older cars, which may or may not be the issue here. As alluded to above, the last time we had an incident where the train was sparking, which happened to be a 46, it clipped some equipment left behind and not properly secured from track work in the area. Until we get some concrete evidence as to what caused this, I'm withholding judgment on the structural integrity of the present fleet.

Besides, even if we were to mass retire the older cars, which is not recommended, what are we replacing them with? We've got a train car builder that doesn't know how to make train cars anymore and an MTA budget that did not include the replacements for the 46s until a couple of years ago. That means we're stuck with what we have, for better or worse. If any of you want these new cars here sooner, petition to Governor Cuomo to have the MTA expedite the order as he claimed he was going to do in one of his many pressers that failed to actually yield any results. He may not run the day to day activities for the agency, but he does approve their budget.

Also, to address a point mentioned a few times here, the doors between cars on the 46s and 68s are locked to prevent people from falling onto the tracks, There is a larger gap on the 75-foot trains than there is on the 60-footers, especially as they turn. Unlocking those doors would open up a world of trouble for the MTA legal team, even with the ever-present warnings about crossing between cars.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Lance said:

I always find threads like these amusing, simply for all of the guessing and armchair managing that comes out of them. Do we even know what happened here? Did the train clip something, like it did the last time something like this happened? In this whole thread, I do not see anything that mentions the actual cause of the incident. I do see a lot of complaints about the older cars, which may or may not be the issue here. As alluded to above, the last time we had an incident where the train was sparking, which happened to be a 46, it clipped some equipment left behind and not properly secured from track work in the area. Until we get some concrete evidence as to what caused this, I'm withholding judgment on the structural integrity of the present fleet.

Besides, even if we were to mass retire the older cars, which is not recommended, what are we replacing them with? We've got a train car builder that doesn't know how to make train cars anymore and an MTA budget that did not include the replacements for the 46s until a couple of years ago. That means we're stuck with what we have, for better or worse. If any of you want these new cars here sooner, petition to Governor Cuomo to have the MTA expedite the order as he claimed he was going to do in one of his many pressers that failed to actually yield any results. He may not run the day to day activities for the agency, but he does approve their budget.

Also, to address a point mentioned a few times here, the doors between cars on the 46s and 68s are locked to prevent people from falling onto the tracks, There is a larger gap on the 75-foot trains than there is on the 60-footers, especially as they turn. Unlocking those doors would open up a world of trouble for the MTA legal team, even with the ever-present warnings about crossing between cars.

I'm well aware of why they're locked.  That still doesn't mean that it's safe to have them locked in an emergency, which is what you seem to be trying to imply.  Either way it opens them up to a world of trouble.  

[Lance]

You'd do well not to read into things that are not there. I never said, nor did I imply they should remain locked in an emergency. Someone mentioned up-thread that the lock release is controlled in the cab. If that is the case, then it's fine in the event of an emergency. If it isn't, that should be looked into so as to prevent a tragedy. Otherwise, during normal operations, those doors will remain locked.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, Lance said:

You'd do well not to read into things that are not there. I never said, nor did I imply they should remain locked in an emergency. Someone mentioned up-thread that the lock release is controlled in the cab. If that is the case, then it's fine in the event of an emergency. If it isn't, that should be looked into so as to prevent a tragedy. Otherwise, during normal operations, those doors will remain locked.

Well if that's the case, one wonders why they weren't available when those people were practically passing out in them?  This is the same model that's been in the news now several times.

[Trainmaster5]

If posters have complaints about the locked storm doors on the R46 cars please take the time to Google the issue.  It's a waste of time to have this discussion now when the issue was resolved decades ago. It's amusing to see these arguments today from some of the younger generation.  Maybe they don't realize that track fires,  signal issues,  and crime, was rampant in the system when these cars were introduced and the storm doors were originally locked. I don't recall this level of fear or panic from the ridership of that era. The same factors exist in both eras.  Maybe because I lived back in those prehistoric days and used the system daily I've become inoculated from the underlying fear that seems to underpin many of the posts. As Lance pointed out that if we removed the R46s from service because of this suspect " safety issue " today what would you replace them with?  Google " NYCTA and Grumman Flxible" and get back to the forum with the results of that safety issue.  Just my opinion.  Carry on. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

23 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

If posters have complaints about the locked storm doors on the R46 cars please take the time to Google the issue.  It's a waste of time to have this discussion now when the issue was resolved decades ago. It's amusing to see these arguments today from some of the younger generation.  Maybe they don't realize that track fires,  signal issues,  and crime, was rampant in the system when these cars were introduced and the storm doors were originally locked. I don't recall this level of fear or panic from the ridership of that era. The same factors exist in both eras.  Maybe because I lived back in those prehistoric days and used the system daily I've become inoculated from the underlying fear that seems to underpin many of the posts. As Lance pointed out that if we removed the R46s from service because of this suspect " safety issue " today what would you replace them with?  Google " NYCTA and Grumman Flxible" and get back to the forum with the results of that safety issue.  Just my opinion.  Carry on. 

Don't be ridiculous.  We live in a completely different world now where we have crazy people killing people for sport.  Sometimes I wonder if people actually think about what's going on in the world or ever pick up a newspaper.  Just imagine some sicko gets on a locked subway car and decides to go on a rampage.  It's already happened before here with the R68 cars.  The guy went on a rampage stabbing anyone that he could.  Are people really supposed to sit back and wait for the lovely train crew to come and unlock the doors? Give me a break. Better yet, since you think it's so okay to have them locked, what would you do if some nut job was in a locked car with you in it? You'd wait for the subway crew to rescue you?  BS.

There needs to be something done about that.  Instead we read an article about people being trapped in a locked car on the verge of passing out, and the  does its best to avoid discussing the issue in hopes of it going away, but they can't possibly be that gullible to believe that having cars locked like this despite all of the reasons why it's done is ideal given the fact that we live in the age of terrorism.  You apparently haven't been in that situation, so it's easy to sit back and judge. For people that have been stuck in those locked cars I think they see things very differently and I don't know why on earth anyone can't understand that.  If we're talking about a concern for loss of life or passengers being injured, having the doors locked is just as much of a hazard as having them unlocked. The only thing you could possible argue is that one could result in more injuries or death.

I lived in Italy when Spain was attacked and those people were killed on the train. I remember very well what that was like and fear across the continent at the time.  We've had several attacks here and luckily a few weren't carried out successfully.  That alone should prompt changes in this whole business as usual nonsense.  If anything there should be federal funding available to refrofit those cars until new ones can come in.

[RailRunRob]

33 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Don't be ridiculous.  We live in a completely different world now where we have crazy people killing people for sport.  Sometimes I wonder if people actually think about what's going on in the world or ever pick up a newspaper.  Just imagine some sicko gets on a locked subway car and decides to go on a rampage.  It's already happened before here with the R68 cars.  The guy went on a rampage stabbing anyone that he could.  Are people really supposed to sit back and wait for the lovely train crew to come and unlock the doors? Give me a break. Better yet, since you think it's so okay to have them locked, what would you do if some nut job was in a locked car with you in it? You'd wait for the subway crew to rescue you?  BS.

There needs to be something done about that.  Instead we read an article about people being trapped in a locked car on the verge of passing out, and the  does its best to avoid discussing the issue in hopes of it going away, but they can't possibly be that gullible to believe that having cars locked like this despite all of the reasons why it's done is ideal given the fact that we live in the age of terrorism.  You apparently haven't been in that situation, so it's easy to sit back and judge. For people that have been stuck in those locked cars I think they see things very differently and I don't know why on earth anyone can't understand that.  If we're talking about a concern for loss of life or passengers being injured, having the doors locked is just as much of a hazard as having them unlocked. The only thing you could possible argue is that one could result in more injuries or death.

I lived in Italy when Spain was attacked and those people were killed on the train. I remember very well what that was like and fear across the continent at the time.  We've had several attacks here and luckily a few weren't carried out successfully.  That alone should prompt changes in this whole business as usual nonsense.  If anything there should be federal funding available to refrofit those cars until new ones can come in.

  Are you going to jump everytime someones say's boo or the wind blows?  This is the new reality are we really going to disrupt our way of life? So much cowardice in this generation. This is a basic law of the world man.. Fear = power

1. Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability
2. Being predictable gives control to others.
3. Behavior that isn’t consistent will wear people out, and they’ll stop trying to explain things.
4. When used to the extreme, you’ll intimidate and terrorize.

These are inserts from a book used quite abit in business the Art of war another with some of the same premises.  There's just going to be a point in life where were just going to have to man up and adapt. It's the cost of freedom you can't stop everyone 100% of the time and you can't live life behind a wall.  America isnt America at that point. Just my take and I'm not going to stop living..  Not saying we shouldn't be more aware