CBTC in 57 st- 7 Av and N train skipping 49 St

[MTA Researcher]

If CBTC gets installed in Broadway between TSQ and 57 st; does that mean that N train can skip 49 st and beyond 57 Street switch to the 60 st tunnel track and head to Astoria?

 

since CBTC according to my research is a signalling system and trains use it to communicate with each other thus regulating traffic.

 

what are your thoughts?

 

 

[Maxwell179]

There’s already a discussion thread for this

[P3F]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:02 AM, MTA Researcher said:

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that this is a pointless thread, and you have put no effort into looking up previous discussions of this topic, which there has been a significant amount of. Your username is laughable.

[MTA Researcher]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:05 PM, P3F said:

My thoughts are that this is a pointless thread, and you have put no effort into looking up previous discussions of this topic, which there has been a significant amount of. Your username is laughable.

Well aren’t you the ignorant one?

 

I have googled “CBTC N Train skip 49 street” and I found nothing that intrigues me or that’s pertaining to the premise of the topic.

 

If you think I’m a meme researcher, then FFS find me something that has something to do with N train skipping 49 Street and stop making fun of me! Jeez!

 

Here’s the challenge:

 

Find a thread that discusses N train skipping 49 street and goes to Astoria. No 96 St / 2nd Ave.

 

If you don’t find it then let me share with you an idea I have been thinking on for a week now on how to correct Broadway.

 

I keep it civil, even though I feel like raging at disagreements. Now you do the same!

[Vulturious]

15 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

Well aren’t you the ignorant one?

 

I have googled “CBTC N Train skip 49 street” and I found nothing that intrigues me or that’s pertaining to the premise of the topic.

 

If you think I’m a meme researcher, then FFS find me something that has something to do with N train skipping 49 Street and stop making fun of me! Jeez!

 

Here’s the challenge:

 

Find a thread that discusses N train skipping 49 street and goes to Astoria. No 96 St / 2nd Ave.

 

If you don’t find it then let me share with you an idea I have been thinking on for a week now on how to correct Broadway.

 

I keep it civil, even though I feel like raging at disagreements. Now you do the same!

Well there is technically one way to allow the  to run to Astoria while also skipping 49 St. However, this would sever the Broadway-QBL connection. 

As you can see here there are two gray lines just north of 57 St-7 Av on the local tracks heading north. I can't remember if they are just provisions or already built trackways, regardless the idea is to use it. If I remember correctly, these provisions were going to allow for Broadway trains to continue north along CPW as well as Morningside Ave to 125 St. 

The idea is to use the provision to allow Broadway local trains to run along a new connection to the CPW line which will run local. This would allow for  trains to continue running express north of 34 St-Herald Square while also not interfering with any local service along Broadway at all. This would provide another alternative for 6 Av express trains to be rerouted along Broadway straight from CPW. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this would solve anything. The Broadway-QBL connection is vital as it's the only other local service running along QBL other than the  which is only around during the weekdays till the evening. If this were to be built, it would most likely be better to just keep it as a connection for now.

This is a bit off topic, but I'll try to keep it short. While that might not seem like a good investment, it most certainly is because of what I said earlier as it's another alternative for 6 Av express trains. Currently, 6 Av express trains only have one way into Manhattan from their current route and that is through the Manhattan Bridge. The only other way into Manhattan is through Culver which already limits  and  trains because they aren't running along their respective branches in Brooklyn. Especially if both lines are forced to run along 8 Av heading south, they're already forced to run along Culver as well because of the lack of any switches to get back onto the express tracks before Broadway-Lafayette St. With this new connection it allows for 3 new alternative ways to run them, either they continue local the whole way until the Manhattan Bridge or through Montague St tunnel or runs express from the get-go to the Manhattan Bridge. 

I don't really have a way to run service without making service run worse for QBL, however this could still be an option as there are some benefits to come from this. 

[CenSin]

19 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

Find a thread that discusses N train skipping 49 street and goes to Astoria. No 96 St / 2nd Ave.

This thread which has been around for nearly a decade often mentions skipping 49 Street:

The decade-old subway proposals thread:

It’s often found as a random thought from time to time:

 

[MTA Researcher]

@Vulturious What’s good? How are you?

Mmm I like this idea already. This theoretical Broadway extension to CPW is dope! Something to take into consideration in the future.

 

@CenSinBut they talk about sending N train to 2nd Ave. I prefer keeping N train going to Astoria while skipping 49 Street. All right, I guess I will have to reveal my provisional proposal. Ready?

 

Here’s my idea:

On Topic:

- Astoria - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp - skips 49 street 

- 96 St/2 Av - Coney Island - Bway/4 Av Exp - via West End 

- Forest Hills - Whitehall St. - Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway Lcl 

 

Off Topic:

 

Brown M - Metropolitan Av - Bay Ridge: Nassau St Lcl - 4 Av Lcl - via Montague St Tunnel 

- 205 St - Coney Island: via Brighton Lcl 

- Axed and Discontinued
 

Like this  becomes hyper frequent local train just like  and  while having access to Jamaica yard. Of course cutting the R train to Whitehall St. Means that Brown M train must return to fill in the void at Brooklyn.

Of course this part is off topic, but why not include it?  to Brighton to join the  while  go via 4 Av Exp seems decent. With all taken into consideration;  can be eradicated from the system.

 

Well I know  had to be sacrificed, but the void in Brooklyn has to be filled…

 

As for QBL replacement — extend  to Forest Hills.

[Vulturious]

4 minutes ago, MTA Researcher said:

@Vulturious What’s good? How are you?

Mmm I like this idea already. This theoretical Broadway extension to CPW is dope! Something to take into consideration in the future.

 

@CenSinBut they talk about sending N train to 2nd Ave. I prefer keeping N train going to Astoria while skipping 49 Street. All right, I guess I will have to reveal my provisional proposal. Ready?

 

Here’s my idea:

On Topic:

- Astoria - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp - skips 49 street 

- 96 St/2 Av - Coney Island - Bway/4 Av Exp - via West End 

- Forest Hills - Whitehall St. - Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway Lcl 

 

Off Topic:

 

Brown M - Metropolitan Av - Bay Ridge: Nassau St Lcl - 4 Av Lcl - via Montague St Tunnel 

- 205 St - Coney Island: via Brighton Lcl 

- Axed and Discontinued
 

Like this  becomes hyper frequent local train just like  and  while having access to Jamaica yard. Of course cutting the R train to Whitehall St. Means that Brown M train must return to fill in the void at Brooklyn.

Of course this part is off topic, but why not include it?  to Brighton to join the  while  go via 4 Av Exp seems decent. With all taken into consideration;  can be eradicated from the system.

 

Well I know  had to be sacrificed, but the void in Brooklyn has to be filled…

 

As for QBL replacement — extend  to Forest Hills.

Eh, could be better. Thanks for asking, though.

Before I say what I personally think, the part about the off-topic part aren't off topic as they do actually relate almost entirely to the proposal at hand when it comes to keeping the  at Astoria along with skipping 49 St. With that out of the way, here is what I think about all of this.

I personally do not think this helps at all. While Dekalb is being de-interlined having all 6 Av express service run along Brighton and Broadway express service along 4 Av, no one on Brighton is a fan of 6 Av or at least those along Brighton local. There was a reason the  became the full time local service for Brighton riders. There is also that direct Broadway-QBL connection that being the , but the  would still get in the way which already delays  trains because they run together. Of course, both the  and  are running together for a long stretch of tracks going from 36 St in Brooklyn all the way to 57 St-7 Av in Manhattan. However, that merge is still simply just moved up to 57 St-7 Av. 

I'm not exactly sure how reliable the  is here. Currently, it isn't and I don't think anything is really changing for the  because of the choke point it still has to deal with. The  might not be there to hinder it, but the  is very much still there. 

Having the  as the 's replacement doesn't help either. Not only are people going to be crowding the , but there is probably going to be longer waiting times in general. The  just can't return to QBL anymore because of the amount of people that want trains going into Manhattan. 

The  (idk why there isn't a regular variant of this, but ok) returning isn't any better than keeping the  to Bay Ridge. If anything, it's probably much worse and giving riders more incentive to just avoid taking the  at all cost, at least those that aren't it into Manhattan. The only area that the  is going to be of any use is when it's on it's own as well as transferring to other lines at the first shot given. 

The only thing that is getting any benefits out of all of this is trains running across the Manhattan Bridge, that being the .

[bulk88]

The N stops at 49th Street for access to Rockefeller center business district. Since the BMT 42nd Street station is located entirely south of 42/41 Street and dumps you into the cheap, shady, pre war, garment district office buildings.

[CenSin]

20 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

@CenSinBut they talk about sending N train to 2nd Ave.

Not all of it.

What ties these discussions together? It’s always about ridership or the lack of punch boxes at 5 Avenue. Search function found them in 5 minutes.

[Wallyhorse]

With regard to the Broadway Express/Local issue:

I would add punch boxes at 5th Avenue/59th.  That would allow trains to go straight to the express track at 57th going south and stay on such to 57th going north.  That would make it much easier on everyone.

[MTA Researcher]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:19 PM, Vulturious said:

no one on Brighton is a fan of 6 Av or at least those along Brighton local.

Hmm would you please explain why?

[MTA Researcher]

11 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

I would add punch boxes at 5th Avenue/59th.  That would allow trains to go straight to the express track at 57th going south and stay on such to 57th going north.  That would make it much easier on everyone.

That’s the best idea ever. I also thought about that. The question is why is the MTA not doing such thing?

[Vulturious]

10 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

Hmm would you please explain why?

I guess people on Brighton just prefer Broadway, I've just heard from people both on here and elsewhere that they do. I didn't really go in further in depth with explaining the whole  thing going on so I might well now.

South Brooklyn had a few services running around, but for the most part service was consistent in terms of how they ran during their hours of operations. The B was on West End and 4 Av with late night service to 36 St, the D as the local Brighton Service with some running express I believe until after the  was introduced and the  ran full time local along Brighton. Nothing much changed, but West End was shafted during late nights. The MTA decided to switch up the  and  after the Manhattan Bridge construction was finished because of (I would assume) how service for all 3 ran throughout the day and week and to get rid of the confusion.

The  was practically a service that ran as a supplement even during weekends when it served as West End's main line. It had like 3 different terminals at one point, from Coney Island to 145 St during normal weekday service which was after it swapped with the , Bedford Park Blvd during rush hour only, and 21 St-Queensbridge during the times the  wasn't around which would be during weekends. Hell, it still ran late night shuttle along West End to 36 St. The  during late nights would also be covering for the  which had the  taking over for the  to Jamaica-179 St.  trains ran pretty much normal service, but the  sticking around made it confusing. Having the  sticking as the supplement line for the  and  actually made it less confusing and run service better. 

[MTA Researcher]

5 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

I guess people on Brighton just prefer Broadway, I've just heard from people both on here and elsewhere that they do. I didn't really go in further in depth with explaining the whole  thing going on so I might well now.

South Brooklyn had a few services running around, but for the most part service was consistent in terms of how they ran during their hours of operations. The B was on West End and 4 Av with late night service to 36 St, the D as the local Brighton Service with some running express I believe until after the  was introduced and the  ran full time local along Brighton. Nothing much changed, but West End was shafted during late nights. The MTA decided to switch up the  and  after the Manhattan Bridge construction was finished because of (I would assume) how service for all 3 ran throughout the day and week and to get rid of the confusion.

The  was practically a service that ran as a supplement even during weekends when it served as West End's main line. It had like 3 different terminals at one point, from Coney Island to 145 St during normal weekday service which was after it swapped with the , Bedford Park Blvd during rush hour only, and 21 St-Queensbridge during the times the  wasn't around which would be during weekends. Hell, it still ran late night shuttle along West End to 36 St. The  during late nights would also be covering for the  which had the  taking over for the  to Jamaica-179 St.  trains ran pretty much normal service, but the  sticking around made it confusing. Having the  sticking as the supplement line for the  and  actually made it less confusing and run service better. 

Hmm I see. Tell me is Sea Beach riders really happy with the N train from Broadway serving it? I have a feeling that 4 Av Exp riders also prefer 6 Av over Broadway, correct?

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, MTA Researcher said:

Hmm I see. Tell me is Sea Beach riders really happy with the N train from Broadway serving it? I have a feeling that 4 Av Exp riders also prefer 6 Av over Broadway, correct?

IIRC, Sea Beach prefers Broadway as well mainly because people on 8 Av are trying to get to Canal St. I'm not entirely sure about 4 Av Express as a whole. I only know people want more  trains on 6 Av because of how often they run or rather how often they aren't. I always see a bunch of people taking the  as well as the  I think they're both equal in terms of ridership, but the reason people want more  service is because there's more  service. I always see at least 2  trains passing by before a  train ever comes. The same goes for anywhere else in the system, if I'm waiting somewhere along 6 Av, a  would be there first, same with along CPW including some  trains. 

This is just mainly what I saw whenever I'm taking the , it doesn't run as often as I hope it should, I've only ever gotten lucky because of my timing recently.

[mrsman]

A real key (and IMO easy) way to improve delays due to trains intermingling is to have all Brighton trains to 6th Ave and all 4th Ave express trains to Broadway express (or vice versa).  This basically means a D/Q swap in Brooklyn or a B/N swap in Brooklyn.

For systemwide operation purposes, which one is chosen doesn't really matter.  Where it really matters is with regard to meeting passenger prefernces.  If Brighton passengers prefer Broadway and 4th Ave passengers prefer 6th Ave, then do that, especially if there is a wide difference.  If both sets of passengers prefer Broadway, then one side is going to have to get the less preferred route so that delays around DeKalb can get mitigated.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you are on a 6th Ave train, one additional transfer can basically get you pretty close to any Broadway station in Manhattan, but the reverse is not true.  This is because every Broadway station between City Hall and 23rd runs close to the  [where you can make a transfer at Broadway-Laffayette], and every station between 23rd and 59/Lex runs within a short distance of  , which is a cross-platform transfer at W4 or 34th from B/D trains.  But if I'm on a Broadway train over the bridge, I cannot easily transfer to any of the 8th Ave trains and I can't even make a single transfer to get me close to W4th without backtracking.  Given that 6th Ave stations are harder to reach, it may make sense to have Brighton trains go to 6th Ave which will allow for DeKalb station (which is north of Atlantic) to have direct connection to 6th Ave.  

 

[MTA Researcher]

Here’s my modified idea based off of @mrsman and @Vulturiousfeedback:

 

Astoria Ditmars - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach - skips 49 Street 

Jamaica 179 St - Bay Ridge: QBL Exp via 60 St Tunnel - Bway/4 Av Lcl vía Montague St Tunnel 

96 St/2 Av - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via West End

 

Jamaica Ctr - Coney Island: QBL Exp - via 53rd St Tunnel - 8 Av Lcl - W 4 Switch vía Culver 

Forest Hills - WTC: QBL Lcl via 63 St Tunnel - 6 Av Lcl - W 4 Switch 

 

205 - Coney Island: via Brighton

Forest Hills - Metropolitan Av.: via 63rd Street Tunnel

 

Remains Axed unless it comes back to 6 Av. Cmon Orange Q looks dope!

 

Anyway in here I turn the into a 1 borough Exp 2 borough Lcl along with the  .  as all local dead ends at WTC with the W 4 switch, just like Is extended to Brooklyn with the same switch.

 

Based on what @mrsmansaid I decided to keep to Brighton and  4 Av Exp.    

 

I decided to keep the but with a slight tweak since apparently everybody loves the and find It very useful.

 

I myself as someone who plans to move to Astoria want Express trains in my future neighborhood, and I want to give Queens more Downtown Express service. This is done in the form of the  .

Edited December 27, 2021 by MTA Researcher

[Vulturious]

29 minutes ago, MTA Researcher said:

Here’s my modified idea based off of @mrsman and @Vulturiousfeedback:

 

Astoria Ditmars - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach - skips 49 Street 

Jamaica 179 St - Bay Ridge: QBL Exp via 60 St Tunnel - Bway/4 Av Lcl vía Montague St Tunnel 

96 St/2 Av - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via West End

 

Jamaica Ctr - Coney Island: QBL Exp - via 53rd St Tunnel - 8 Av Lcl - W 4 Switch vía Culver 

Forest Hills - WTC: QBL Lcl via 63 St Tunnel - 6 Av Lcl - W 4 Switch 

 

205 - Coney Island: via Brighton

Forest Hills - Metropolitan Av.: via 63rd Street Tunnel

 

Remains Axed unless it comes back to 6 Av. Cmon Orange Q looks dope!

 

Anyway in here I turn the into a 1 borough Exp 2 borough Lcl along with the  .  as all local dead ends at WTC with the W 4 switch, just like Is extended to Brooklyn with the same switch.

 

Based on what @mrsmansaid I decided to keep to Brighton and  4 Av Exp.    

 

I decided to keep the but with a slight tweak since apparently everybody loves the and find It very useful.

 

I myself as someone who plans to move to Astoria want Express trains in my future neighborhood, and I want to give Queens more Downtown Express service. This is done in the form of the  .

Not sure how I feel about this. While certain areas are running fine, other areas still aren't. The only other area that seems to have benefited from these changes are South Brooklyn and north of 6 Av. 

Starting off with Broadway and Queens side of thing we got the following issues:

•  trains are merging and splitting around Queens Plaza with the
• The  is merging with the  to get onto the 60 St tunnel just to split up again
• No local service to Queens Plaza from QBL.

One things for sure is that there is actually less merging going on which I think is an accomplishment to a certain extent. However, it just feels so unnecessary to keep some of the merges around. The  doesn't appear to have any changes in merging, for the most part it only has to deal with the  and  and the  isn't around to annoy. That doesn't mean there isn't an issue because again, no changes. The only other issue that might be worth noting is the lack of local service running to Queens Plaza from QBL. There are 6 stops on QBL from Queens Plaza to Jackson Heights. Jackson Heights already has an issue of people transferring because people from the local stops are trying to get onto the  to get to Queens Plaza or at least LIC. Now there is more incentive for people wanting to transfer because of that reason, LIC is a growing area practically like Midtown 2.0 (taken that from someone). 

The last concern that I want to talk about here is the West 4 St area. I believe someone pointed out to me a while ago on another thread was the issue of the the and  switching while the  doesn't. In my proposal, the  ran along 8 Av to 168 St along with the  running the same way your  currently runs. However, this isn't going to work if the  is staying along 6 Av. The  and  won't have an issue with each other, but the  makes things complicated because it has to get through the  to then later on interrupt the  south of West 4 St. Basically, south of West 4 St is like running the 6 Av of 60 St tunnel. There's also the issue of the  having to wait for the  to get through West 4 St first, so the merging at Canal St just moved up to West 4 St instead.

The last thing I'm going to talk about is the , while it does look cool it doesn't mean it will be brought back. I doubt it'll ever be brought back unless there is another Manhattan Bridge construction that forces the MTA to bring it back. It was kept as the  for the reason of keeping a Broadway service on Brighton because people prefer that more. If people preferred the , it would basically be the  or  for Brighton express service like how the  was operating when it was the sole line running around Brighton. I'm not sure how service would operate, but it would be an interesting topic to talk about (let's not make a whole new thread about it, just go to random-thoughts).

[P3F]

On 12/23/2021 at 1:07 AM, MTA Researcher said:

Well aren’t you the ignorant one?

 

I have googled “CBTC N Train skip 49 street” and I found nothing that intrigues me or that’s pertaining to the premise of the topic.

 

If you think I’m a meme researcher, then FFS find me something that has something to do with N train skipping 49 Street and stop making fun of me! Jeez!

 

Here’s the challenge:

 

Find a thread that discusses N train skipping 49 street and goes to Astoria. No 96 St / 2nd Ave.

 

If you don’t find it then let me share with you an idea I have been thinking on for a week now on how to correct Broadway.

 

I keep it civil, even though I feel like raging at disagreements. Now you do the same!

Oh no, the children of the forum are getting aggressive.

[mrsman]

23 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

Here’s my modified idea based off of @mrsman and @Vulturiousfeedback:

 

Astoria Ditmars - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach - skips 49 Street 

Jamaica 179 St - Bay Ridge: QBL Exp via 60 St Tunnel - Bway/4 Av Lcl vía Montague St Tunnel 

96 St/2 Av - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via West End

 

Jamaica Ctr - Coney Island: QBL Exp - via 53rd St Tunnel - 8 Av Lcl - W 4 Switch vía Culver 

Forest Hills - WTC: QBL Lcl via 63 St Tunnel - 6 Av Lcl - W 4 Switch 

 

205 - Coney Island: via Brighton

Forest Hills - Metropolitan Av.: via 63rd Street Tunnel

 

Remains Axed unless it comes back to 6 Av. Cmon Orange Q looks dope!

 

Anyway in here I turn the into a 1 borough Exp 2 borough Lcl along with the  .  as all local dead ends at WTC with the W 4 switch, just like Is extended to Brooklyn with the same switch.

 

Based on what @mrsmansaid I decided to keep to Brighton and  4 Av Exp.    

 

I decided to keep the but with a slight tweak since apparently everybody loves the and find It very useful.

 

I myself as someone who plans to move to Astoria want Express trains in my future neighborhood, and I want to give Queens more Downtown Express service. This is done in the form of the  .

As Vulturious has said, there are definitely some positives and negatives with your plan involving merges and the like.

If I could tweak your plan a little, I think the following would run better.  I will also get rid of the switching around at W4th.:

Astoria Ditmars - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach - skips 49 Street  

 Forest Hills - Bay Ridge: QBL local via 60 St Tunnel - Bway/4 Av Lcl vía Montague St Tunnel 

96 St/2 Av - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via West End

 

Jamaica Ctr - WTC: QBL Exp - via 53rd St Tunnel - 8 Av Lcl 

 179 St - Coney Island: QBL Exp via 53 St Tunnel - 6 Av Lcl 

 Bedford Park Blvd - Brighton Beach via Brighton express

205 - Coney Island: via Brighton local

Forest Hills - Metropolitan Av.: via 63rd Street Tunnel

 

I see you feel strongly about connecting Astoria to the Broadway express, which the above plan does.  But I am concerned about the  switching from express to local along the Broadway tracks.  So I would provide additional service tweaks for the Broadway line: 

Astoria Ditmars - Coney Island - Bway/4 Av Lcl via Montague St tunnel and Sea Beach line   

 Forest Hills - Bay Ridge: QBL local via 60 St Tunnel - Bway/4 Av Lcl vía Montague St Tunnel 

96 St/2 Av - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via West End 

96 St/2 Av - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach  

The would be a supplemental line that is basically an express version of  .  Most Sea Beach trains will run local, but some of them will run express during weekday hours.  So as to prevent the merging on Broadway, all  trains will go to 96th instead of Astoria.   would be less frequent than  or  and would not run at all on nights or weekends.

 

 

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/23/2021 at 10:50 PM, MTA Researcher said:

@Vulturious What’s good? How are you?

Mmm I like this idea already. This theoretical Broadway extension to CPW is dope! Something to take into consideration in the future.

 

@CenSinBut they talk about sending N train to 2nd Ave. I prefer keeping N train going to Astoria while skipping 49 Street. All right, I guess I will have to reveal my provisional proposal. Ready?

Here’s my idea:
On Topic:
- Astoria - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp - skips 49 street 
- 96 St/2 Av - Coney Island - Bway/4 Av Exp - via West End 
- Forest Hills - Whitehall St. - Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway Lcl 

Off Topic:
Brown - Metropolitan Av - Bay Ridge: Nassau St Lcl - 4 Av Lcl - via Montague St Tunnel 
- 205 St - Coney Island: via Brighton Lcl 
- Axed and Discontinued

Like this  becomes hyper frequent local train just like  and  while having access to Jamaica yard. Of course cutting the R train to Whitehall St. Means that Brown M train must return to fill in the void at Brooklyn.

Of course this part is off topic, but why not include it?  to Brighton to join the  while  go via 4 Av Exp seems decent. With all taken into consideration;  can be eradicated from the system.

Well I know  had to be sacrificed, but the void in Brooklyn has to be filled…

As for QBL replacement — extend  to Forest Hills.

Your idea of the and are similar to what I would do, except as I would do it:

 becomes Brown and runs like this:
Weekdays: Canal Street station to 95th Street-Bay Ridge
(The northbound platforms at Canal Street and Bowery are re-activated with the running on those tracks northbound while the  would use the current northbound track ("downtown express/terminal" track in the old setup) for most trains to terminate at Canal with the "uptown express/terminal" track only used during peak times).

All Other Times (including overnights): Metropolitan Avenue station to 95th Street-Bay Ridge
There also would be scheduled yard runs for this version of the  that would run in service from or to Broadway Junctions and would be noted in the schedules. 

in this is shortened to Chambers Street with service designed to be a simple cross-platform transfer at Canal or Chambers Street between the and .

 becomes a 24/7 line and runs as the sole Broadway Local as follows:
All Times Except Late Nights: 9th Avenue station and Ditmars Boulevard.
(During weekdays, and especially during rush hours, some trains would end and begin at Whitehall Street)
There also would be scheduled yard runs that would end and begin at Bay Parkway on the , these runs would run express between Bay Parkway and 9th Avenue in the peak direction.

stays as it is now.

As for the rest:
becomes local on QBL and is shortened to 71st-Continental OR the and both go to 179th with the ,
remains as is, though becomes express all the way on QBL at all times if the  and go to 179.
runs via 63rd with the and replaces the to Jamaica Center (with rush-hour runs to 179th Street).
 remains as is.

This keeps switching to a minimum and gives Bay Ridge pols what they wanted previously in a split .

 

 

[Wallyhorse]

I failed to mention in the previous post on the :

Late Nights: runs between 34th Street OR Times Square and Astoria.  runs through the tunnel and  also runs local to 57th Street-7th Avenue during those hours.

[Vulturious]

17 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

I failed to mention in the previous post on the :

Late Nights: runs between 34th Street OR Times Square and Astoria.  runs through the tunnel and  also runs local to 57th Street-7th Avenue during those hours.

That's a bit of a hassle, imo. Regardless or where you're terminating the , it would have to operate on the express tracks going back north only to then crossover the  and  at 57 St-7 Av just to get to Astoria.

[Wallyhorse]

45 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

That's a bit of a hassle, imo. Regardless or where you're terminating the , it would have to operate on the express tracks going back north only to then crossover the  and  at 57 St-7 Av just to get to Astoria.

Yes, but it's in the late-night hours.  If need be, you could have it run to/from Whitehall or have it end/begin at Canal.

34th I thought of because of the switches there.  The and in this scenario would both be local anyway late night as they are now.