Trainmaster5 Posted May 19, 2009 Share #26 Posted May 19, 2009 Even passenger-less freight trains have a ****ing conductor. These people are out of their ****ing minds. Only light rail & tram/trolly can be T/O only, because they usually can see, and if not have cameras & smaller vehicles also. Insane. I dunno about you guys but i'm starting to really not like the . - A Welcome to the club. It's really getting crowded in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted May 19, 2009 Share #27 Posted May 19, 2009 Running long length trains OPTO is not safe. You really think a T/O is going to see 9 cars down and around a curve to see that baby stroller in the doorway, or who's wheel is caught in the gap between the train and the platform? Not to mention if there needs to be an evacuation, that would be VERY unsafe. The T/O would have to make his way through the train car by car assisting passengers and getting people mobilized and ready to move out of the cars. And now he'd have to do all 10 cars. Meanwhile, someone also has to physically and observe passengers detraining, whether it's to a rescue train in front or beside, to the catwalk, or down to the roadbed. Two people working speeds up the process. Now the T/O does EVERYTHING (twice the work) and the crew of the rescue train would assist people detraining. And to those of you who think that the T/O can just "make an announcement" and call it a day, he now would have to keep a whole train of passengers calm. Not to mention if a rescue train pulls up behind the stuck train prepared to wrong rail back to the last station, how does that old lady with the walker in car 3 make it all the way back? Here's a hint the crew doesn't just let her hobble on back walking through the storm doors all by herself... Of course defenders of this idea will say "oh those don't happen very often" but as the saying goes hope for the best but prepare for the worst and IF it happens that's a lot of responsibility for any one person, no matter how experienced they are... just my 2c Emergency evacuation is the reason OPTO is hated by most RTO employees. Most of us were taught that it takes at minimum 2 people to evacuate a train in a safe manner. One person to scout out a safe way to leave the train while the other crew member keeps the riders onboard calm and aware of the measures being taken to remove them from harms way. The last time I did this was during a hot, muggy day during NYC's last blackout. Luckily we were in a station with the doors open. My C/R and I, along with another crew, who were on a train across the platform, evacuated 2 trains by walking and physically carrying people up 2 flights of stairs to street level and daylight. My friend , who wasn't so lucky, had to evacuate a trainload of people who were stuck in a river tube. He and his C/R had a supervisor on board, another friend, who said that it was the hardest thing they had ever done on this job. They had to climb steep steps with only flashlights, push open an emergency exit leading to street level, while trying to stop speeding cars from plowing into the evacuees. When help arrived, NYPD, they were all out of harms way by then. When help arrived at my train , RTO supervisors and NYPD, my passengers were probably home by then. Now imagine 1 person trying to do this. Pelham Bay Dave and DOB2RTO probably know this but to the rest of you I can tell you that the T.A.'s response to an OPTO train is "wait for help". I wouldn't wish OPTO on anyone because I think it's inherently unsafe on NYC subways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted May 19, 2009 Share #28 Posted May 19, 2009 The reason why the nyc subway needs a conductor, beyond the obvious reasons of less workload & more people in charge in an emergency, is that the conductor can help people needing information, and the nature of the system is too decentralized. You literally have many separate railroads/rtc's all mixed into the current system(IND/MBT/IRT/LIRR/trolly companies etc). The system was never designed to have one person in control of 100% of the trains operations & movements, because the system is a patchwork of lines brought under unified operation as "subway". In reality you could easily split the lines back how they were, & rebuild torn up tracks & demolished el's and have it be one massive but unconnected system. The same can't even be said for something like regional rail, because the only major difference is the connection between market/reading terminal and suburban station. Or (NJT) as another example, you still had some connecting tracks between B&O, PRR, CRRNJ, Erie, DL&W etc... The central control would be divided between NYP and NWK newark div and Hoboken div as it is today. Point is, if doesn't start making some sense it really is time for a shake-up, and not just of positions, but totally reorganize how mass transit is overseen & operated in and connecting to/within nyc & its metro area. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MottAvenueMan Posted May 20, 2009 Share #29 Posted May 20, 2009 What happens when robotrain catches a virus? Or gets hacked? Or worse yet, turns terminator? LOL.(NYCT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted May 20, 2009 Share #30 Posted May 20, 2009 Running long length trains OPTO is not safe. You really think a T/O is going to see 9 cars down and around a curve to see that baby stroller in the doorway, or who's wheel is caught in the gap between the train and the platform? Not to mention if there needs to be an evacuation, that would be VERY unsafe. The T/O would have to make his way through the train car by car assisting passengers and getting people mobilized and ready to move out of the cars. And now he'd have to do all 10 cars. Meanwhile, someone also has to physically and observe passengers detraining, whether it's to a rescue train in front or beside, to the catwalk, or down to the roadbed. Two people working speeds up the process. Now the T/O does EVERYTHING (twice the work) and the crew of the rescue train would assist people detraining. And to those of you who think that the T/O can just "make an announcement" and call it a day, he now would have to keep a whole train of passengers calm. Not to mention if a rescue train pulls up behind the stuck train prepared to wrong rail back to the last station, how does that old lady with the walker in car 3 make it all the way back? Here's a hint the crew doesn't just let her hobble on back walking through the storm doors all by herself... Of course defenders of this idea will say "oh those don't happen very often" but as the saying goes hope for the best but prepare for the worst and IF it happens that's a lot of responsibility for any one person, no matter how experienced they are... just my 2c Is there anything you can't explain well? Geez! I'd pay for your insight. :tup: Welcome to the club. It's really getting crowded in here. Do we get T-shirts as part of the membership fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted May 20, 2009 Share #31 Posted May 20, 2009 What happens when robotrain catches a virus? Or gets hacked? Or worse yet, turns terminator? LOL.(NYCT) If something goes awry on the ATO lines (robotrain), the T/O takes over. On ATO trains, the T/O supervises the automatic train operation. If for some reason, something happens the T/O will revert back to manual operation and will operate it like a normal train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNIGHTRIDER3:16 Posted May 28, 2009 Share #32 Posted May 28, 2009 OPTO should stay the way it is ,on the and the (S)Rockaway shuttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted May 28, 2009 Share #33 Posted May 28, 2009 Is there anything you can't explain well? Geez! I'd pay for your insight. :tup: How much? B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r30redbird Posted May 30, 2009 Share #34 Posted May 30, 2009 london undergrounds conductors were all gone by 2000 all it is a stupid money saving exercise like trainmaster5 said two person operated trains could be evactuated quicker, nowadays it can take 2/3 hours to evacuate a train beacause the time it takes to get extra staff down drivers used to stop the train and just wait until the ding sounded then the trains off now the driver has to also make sure by looking at the cctv screens everybody gets on safely which just makes a drivers day more tiring I really hope the MTA wont go OPTO its just a bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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