Wallyhorse

What a mess. Though if the and are both on the Lexington line that should help but with the part about the and I presume that is mainly about Broadway Junction.

This all stemmed from pols in Brooklyn wanting the split in two, making the a much shorter route (on weekdays, nights and weekends I would extend this to Metropolitan to absorb the night and weekend shuttles) that in Brooklyn would not be subject to delays from elsewhere on the line. This also would have been about keeping pols happy.

And this is all why I would have worked to return the northbound side of Canal Street and Bowery on the to active service and worked on making the stop at Canal back into the terminal it once was with the idea of moving the to Nassau and having the run 95th-Canal on the while the with limited exceptions terminated at Chambers coming southbound (I noted how I would do this in numerous prior posts elsewhere and pols in Brooklyn were looking for the to be split anyway). Eliminating the from Broadway for this, I would then streamline Broadway this way: and remain as they are now with likely additional service to/from Astoria. becomes the full-time (19/7) local running from Whitehall to 71st-Continental (replacing the ) with overflow trains that can't terminate at Whitehall ending southbound and beginning northbound on the tunnel level of Canal Street. If necessary, a new "Yellow " would operate (maximum 5 TPH) between Bay Parkway on the and Astoria to supplement the in lower Manhattan that would be instead of having extra service to Astoria. This would IMO streamline Broadway and allow for extra trains from the Broadway line to operate via the tunnel to 71-Continental.

This is about making it as convenient for passengers as realistically possible. If it means overnights and weekends there is a one-stop between 47-50 and 57 and another between 63rd-Lex and 21st-Queensbridge also operating 24/7, so be it. That is how I would handle it, especially making sure those on Roosevelt Island (which is the island's ONLY train stop) 24/7 service.

They used to do THIS EXACT SHUTTLE on the in the overnights in the 1980's, as well as the one from 36th-Coney Island. I would pay the extra to have this shuttle AND the one between 63rd and 21st-Queensbridge in the overnight running.

That's why nights and weekends during this I'd just have an between 47-50 and 57 that would require ONE four/five-car train plus a backup that probably could be OPTO (though with T/Os on each end to allow trains to quickly leave 47-50 with such coming in on the uptown express track. This would just usually be the one train operating on the uptown track between the two stations.

Agree on the but do they have enough operators to do that? You could also do it where from 11:00 PM Friday until 5:00 AM Monday and overnights from 11:00 PM-5:00 AM, an runs between 47-50 and 57th-6th as what USED to be done when the did that in the '80s (such can use the "uptown express" track at 47-50 to terminate). This keeps 57th/6th open at all times and you likely would only need one train for the service with one other train in place to be a backup. I would then extend the shuttles to West 4th nights and weekends (including the period the would normally terminate at Myrtle-Broadway, using the express tunnel to switch tracks), have the stop at 14th and 23rd on nights/weekends. This allows those on the to be able to transfer to/from the 8th Avenue line there.

Same here. Connect it to the Bridge, and with two island platforms it would allow Marcy when needed to be a terminal both ways.

That I agree. It's something I would look at doing anyway if it could somehow be done where Marcy became a three-track, two island platform station that can serve as a terminal in either direction when needed.

As noted before: If I were going to do ANY new connection, it would be from Queens AND I would have it come across 79th Street with the first Manhattan stop at York-1st Avenues on 79th, which covers a gap in the SAS in what is arguably one of the most densely populated areas of the entire country (and with more high-rises in the future, likely to become worse in that regard). You could make this part of your planned 3rd Avenue Subway that could then run on 3rd with a stop at 76th-79th Street before turning on 79th, then 60th-63rd that would likely be the busiest station on the entire such line with transfers on such a line at 60th Street for the and 63rd for the and 53rd for the , then 42nd for the with other stops at 34th, 23rd, 14th (transfer to ) and then to lower Manhattan along the old 3rd Avenue EL route to Chatham Square (transfer to ) . As others have noted, I don't know if a connection from New Jersey is possible, but if it is, then I would do it as you noted as much as possible, however, I would have the SAS connection I previously proposed with perhaps your new line running on Amsterdam Avenue to 110th Street and then stopping on 110/Frederick Douglas Boulevard and then as you mentioned except I would have this line go across 86th to a stop at 3rd/Lexington Avenues (transfer to ) and then stop otherwise as noted.

Exactly! Even if you only go to St. Nicholas and have a connection to the 8th Avenue/Concourse lines, it is worth it because of yard access to Concourse and 207. While Columbia is a big reason for going to Broadway, it's not the ONLY one, especially with Metro-North at some point expected to have a station on 125/12th as well.

Adding since I can't edit: I have already noted this, the becomes full-time to Astoria (with some trains during peak hours ending and beginning on the tunnel level of Canal Street), supplemented by a new "Yellow " that also goes to Astoria starting at 9th Avenue on the , possibly during peak hours extended to/from Bay Parkway on the West End.

Not sure you can do a subway on 50th Street, I have proposed many revivals of the old 3rd Avenue EL but that would likely never happen. My point on 125 is extending it to Broadway would give access on the upper east side to Columbia, which has greatly expanded over time. This as I have also noted would include connections to the 8th Avenue line at St, Nicholas, using the tracks between the local and express from north of 125-north of 135 to connect to/from the SAS. That would allow access to 207 and Concourse yards with perhaps in that scenario the and both going on the SAS across 125 with one to Broadway-125 and the other replacing the on the Concourse to Bedford Park Boulevard 24/7 with the returned to running to 168.

My "Black " would be a SECOND Brighton Local with either the or being the other. Late nights and weekends. the would operate as it does now with both lines on late nights and weekends being local. I would also design such so trains on that line from both sides have access in both directions to the Myrtle EL in case of an emergency.

Very interesting: I notice you have the in this version using a rebuilt upper level of Myrtle that I would use along with a short stretch of the old Myrtle EL that would connect the existing portion of the Myrtle EL with the current Franklin Avenue Shuttle that would all stations on the current Franklin shuttle rebuilt to (and on the Myrtle EL built to handle) 600' trains as part of the Myrtle-Brighton line that I suggested with the old Tompkins Avenue station from the rebuilt and then going to a stop at most likely Bedford-Nostrand (transfer to ) before reaching Franklin Avenue and absorbing the Franklin shuttle line and then continuing as a second Brighton Local to Coney Island as a "Black " train. Do you have the Throop Avenue station in your version as Elevated or Subway?

That I would do but make 86th and 116th Express Stops IF the then continued to The Bronx that I would do via the old 3rd Avenue EL route (noted as part of how I would look at overall expansion of the SAS that I would actually have south of 23rd on 1st Avenue the way the old 2nd Avenue EL was:

I'll start with a 10th Avenue station on the : For that to work IMO, it would need to be done to where there is an exit on 41st Street and 9th Avenue connected to the west end of the PABT. That to me would make such more viable. Extending the up 10th Avenue is something I have proposed many times. As I would do it, it would run up 10th Avenue to 72nd Street (underneath the existing station with transfers to that there with provisions to extend the line further than that). That likely could be done in concert with a 10th Avenue station on the and perhaps if as some think will eventually happen Madison Square Garden being relocated to a new building from 9th-10th Avenues and 28th-30th Streets. The SAS crosstown I have noted many times. I would do that with a connection to the 8th Avenue line at St. Nicholas/125 that in both directions can use the track between the express and local tracks that currently runs from north of 125 on the to north of 135th Street as an exit and entry point to the SAS that could down the road allow for perhaps the to run with the on the SAS (with the becoming full-time to Astoria and perhaps running with the on the West End to at least Bay Parkway) with one of the or running to 125-Broadway and the other running with the on the Concourse to Bedford Park Boulevard with the joining the to 168. As for the , as I have noted how I would do it would be after 135 and the goes its way, the goes above ground to a new, full-length 145th Street station and then over a new, rail-only bridge south of the Macombs Dam Bridge to a new stop at 153rd-Yankees and then joining the south of 161-Yankee Stadium and stopping there and then running with the to Woodlawn with some trains ending at Burnside. As for the Rockaway Beach Branch, I had previously proposed there that the head to Rockaway Park from Whitehall (with some trains starting on the tunnel level of Canal Street if necessary) with the moved back to Astoria. To me, and especially to get the backing of Resorts World (that has a Casino near Aqueduct) for a revival I believe such a line would have to run through what some still call "The Financial District" (even if that is outdated) and that's why I would do it with the (that also could involve making the brown and moving it to Nassau as I have described in the past).

They do need room for multiple elevators and elevator rooms for those (ADA compliance). but otherwise, I suspect it's to appease certain individuals who want them.

Some very scary thoughts.

3rd Avenue gets proposed because that\s where the EL was.

Just to add: The part above 1st Avenue comes from previous idea to have the SAS operate south of 23rd Street on 1st Avenue the way the 2nd Avenue EL used to. This would allow for more easily connecting the SAS to both the Rutgers Tunnel and the Broadway-Brooklyn line off the Willy B

Yep! Basically the having to accommodate a small, but vocal minority of patrons who actually need the service.

Ideally, and I have previously noted this, how I really would want to do a Bronx SAS (either as an EL OR Subway) would be to have the replicate the old 3rd Avenue EL for the most part as noted below:

I did look at it on track maps on the nycsubway.org site. You could likely for an SAS connection to 8th Avenue have such tracks coming off the SAS ramp up north of 125 after being under the existing tracks there and join the 8th Avenue line on the south end of such current tracks between the local and express tracks on each side.

I know about those massive swaths without Subway very well (I used to go to a school in East Flatbush that required both a subway and a bus ride to reach in the early 1980's, so I'm well aware of that, and that NEEDS to be addressed as well as others have done here). I was here specifically thinking of a simple extension of an already-planned Phase 2 of the SAS that would get the line from Lenox Avenue (currently planned for a storage area but should be done as a station to allow for transfers to and from the ) that would allow for a connection to/from the at Broadway in an area where Columbia University has expanded greatly into AND a connection from the SAS TO the 8th Avenue Line at 125/St. Nicholas that would permit at the very least for the (and later ) to have access to Concourse and 207th Street Yards and to allow the and in an emergency to use the SAS if something goes FUBAR on CPW. The main reason I'm thinking about connecting the SAS to 8th Avenue at all is the fact you have the area where you have six tracks across between 125 to at least just north of 135. Any SAS line that connects to 8th Avenue would likely use the track between the local and express each way to/from just north of 135th whether using the Concourse Line or the 8th Avenue line. This for example could be done where you have the join the on the Concourse line between 145 and Bedford Park Boulevard while the and both terminate at 168 and that would be the likely best way to do it (you could also with this if you want to a lot of de-interlining on Broadway itself before the runs on the SAS do it where with Phase 2 going all the way across 125 one of the or going to BPB with the and the other going to 125th Street-Broadway while the , perhaps supplemented by a new "Yellow " I had proposed previously (running from 9th Avenue on the via 4th Avenue local and the tunnel to Astoria) for my plan of moving the to Nassau runs to Astoria (with if the has too many trains during peak hours because Whitehall can't turn all of them having some end and begin on the tunnel level of Canal Street, in this case with the continuing to run as it does now). That to me can work.