East New York

The 16 that they have had for a while now.

They could get either for the purpose of familiarization and or evaluation at the depot. Since we already own 10 (6 pending delivery) XDE40’s, it could be one of those as well. Once the hybrids come in 2020 you can almost bet MV will get some. Whatever they are.

For now that is on hold in favor of the 15 electric artics. I’m not sure what happened to them getting both. Either way, I don’t see either of them being available for M14SBS by launch date. This isn’t what MTA wants to do. You all ask a lot of why questions that can’t be answered here. MTA places buses where they see the need based on logistics, and maintenance. Not only that, there are 251 buses on this order and the assignments aren’t complete. I’ve also said before a couple times that when uniformity comes into play location and logistics do as well. I also said to expect the fleet to cross over into other boroughs now several times. This shouldn’t really be a surprise. MV needs new buses now and they aren’t on the XD list. We don’t have hybrids, and won’t have any until so this should be a no-brainer Since Manhattan already has LFS at Quill, and LFSA’s everywhere in the borough this already is a uniform fleet. Manhattan has no Xcelsior standards yet. As far as moving all the MCI’s to UP, that is just ridiculous actually. For one, the mileage comes into factor, for 2 you are replacing newer buses with older buses which customers will protest about on those routes. How is that fair to customers? How does that do anything other than increase maintenance costs, and decrease the reliability of the routes out of UP? The MCI’s are on their way out the door. So no, your logic would not work. Why are you confused? We don’t have any XDE40’s pending delivery..... No you can not expect anything. Please stop assuming and speculating. We don’t know which that that order will go and frankly we are still more than a year away from a hybrid award and won’t know assignments until 2020. Just wait, and let’s deal with what we have on the table right now. Nova has been qualified, along with New Flyer to build any standard bust after the 90 Test Bus Program was complete nearly a decade ago. It’s not based on the fuel, systems or components. It’s based on the bus platform itself. That made Nova automatically qualified to build CNG, Hybrid, and electric buses for MTA. All buses still have to be evaluated and tested no matter what system they have, and no matter what manufacture it is. Also note that just because it’s qualified, does not mean it will past an evaluation. In the case of the above, Nova did not meet MTA’s requirements for each model at the time. Pricing was basically the only factor for the hybrids and electrics. MTA felt the CNG model didn’t have a large enough presence for MTA to evaluate effectively.

Let’s clear some stuff up. We haven’t got into the discussion yet, because I have been a bit busy, but the Hybrid order is no longer certain to be New Flyer. Nova actually has a chance to get in and it may end up being a split award. The only reason MTA didn’t test Nova Hybrids is because of the price point. 9500-9509 are test buses for the Hybrid systems. Nova has always had a chance, but they have to make the offer and delivery timeline comparable to that of New Flyer as MTA needed buses faster than not. If Nova has a pricing point similar to New Flyer this time around, there is now a great chance that we will get hybrids from both companies. The only question will be which system. Allison or BAE. So for everyone who is asking, that is why Novas are over there, and also because they need buses for maintenance rotation. Let’s also not forget that they have the original hybrids which require a bit more maintenance, and are now up for retirement. I would also expect to see a New Flyer or two head over to MV within the next 10 months as well. If the award is split, they are going to have to decide what goes where. Since MV doesn’t have either Nova or New Flyer buses, they are a great candidate for Nova hybrids. The last point everyone keeps forgetting (and I have mentioned several times) is hybrids are being replaced by Diesels, electrics, and new hybrids down the line. In the meanwhile the ones that are up for retirement have to be replaced with diesels. There are too many hybrids and the new ones won’t be in for quite a while. Some assignments will definitely change when the hybrids and electrics come in.

Got it. The wording had me confused. Didn’t know they started calling it a “Program.” That would suggest it’s a regular thing. But yes MTA Bus has to pay NYCT for the use of the buses because they are brand new, and NYCT will not get the full use-per-dollar out of them because of this.

Can you direct me to the page please? I need to see the language used. MTAB is leasing them from NYCT so I’m not understanding the meaning of “program.” Buses will always be loaned and borrowed. I think you are confusing a current unique situation with something that has always occurred. I.e. NYCT leaning and transferring buses to BC.

3733 pending transfer back to LG but still at CP. Also note the first page title post of Fleet and Depots has received a major update from top to bottom with more coming soon. Please review it thoroughly as many questions being asked can be found there. Things have changed, so please take note. We will discuss things further in that thread. Included in the update is the pending award schedule for all upcoming bus orders as well.

733 unwrapped from SBS.

7700, 7712, 7737, 7748, and 7777 retired.

Pilot 5442 Nova to MQ 1025, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033 to WF 7662 to FB 3733 LG to CP

This is every summer to all beach destinations. Nothing new. Same here, and besides that the B41 is always packed no matter what time of year it is. Ending the bus loan program??? First of all there is no such thing. Buses are loaned and borrowed as needed as they always have been. Once the radio and farebox sytems are merged, buses can be loaned at any minute to any depot (TA or Bus Co) on the spot. Just for reference, the plural of RTS is RTS'. This is a general statement that is totally not true of 300 plus buses. What you are referring to is likely being cause by a turbocharger going bad, or a fluid leak of some type. The Orion Hybrids actually burn through turbos faster than the RTS. I also see more of them spitting black smoke than RTS', which is actually rare. Just saying..... I own, operate, service, maintain, and ride RTS buses daily. Key phrase of your post, "I haven't ridden one in a while..."

Not for a couple more weeks.

I can't remember how many they are loosing, but a swap between artics and standards is never one for one. the ratio is 3:2 (every 3 standards being replaced by 2 artics). Yes there will be increases, however some buses will still be sent to WF to kill off the Orions as JG will have a small surplus. And contrary to popular belief, weekday service will only be reduced by 1 minute. Night and weekend service will be reduced 2-4 minutes depending on time and day.

New York Avenue is definitely not a better option. As someone who lived in Flatbush on New York Avenue, I posted years ago that a B44+ would not work on NY Ave, and I suggested the implementation of the route on Rodgers, with a B44 Northbound Limited that would continue to run on NY Av. and end at Fulton Street. None of that is efficient though. Tons of alternatives were suggested but we here in Brooklyn have a MAJOR problem will double parked cars and dollar cabs and vans. As someone who has personally driven buses on all these streets in question I can tell you it's not as easy as it sounds. This has nothing to do with it being a straight route or anything like that. MTA would rather have the route on New York Avenue, however that is just not efficient and the route would not be reliable at all. He was referring to the Select, and I actually answered it in the Moves and transfers, but I will be moving it here eventually.

This is like comparing apples to oranges though. These are two situations that are in no way similar, so I guess I'm not sure what the confusion is exactly. It was publicly announced by MTA because it's now the time for it. We announced it here at NYCTF long before that. The implementation schedule has always been tentatively planned for Fall, with the depot being at full articulated standard by December. West Farms is already an artic depot so no planning was needed for this route. Gleason is not artic ready so you can't just send 60 footers to the depot. The buses that are there now (at JG) are for clearance, maneuvering, depot redesign, and parking design. For West Farms, all that was needed was a simple paddle adjustment, and bus swap. We also announced here last year that the Bx6 would start with standards and after the line was evaluated for artics the next decision could be made. Either was this is not a Moves & Transfers discussion. This is a general discussion about a specific fleet and the depots that are in question. So this needs to go back over there to be continued.

It's not about Gleason being on it because they are. The schedule has ALWAYS been Winter Pick for B35 articulation with a possibility of a soft launch happening in the fall. The depot will not be completely artic ready until December, and we have discussed this several times actually. It has also been posted on the first page of the Fleet & Depots thread for at least 8 months now. When everything is ready, Gleason will be sending XN40's and possibly a few C40LF's to WF, and they will in turn send over the XN60's. The assignment may change a bit. Many had also been asking what was up with ENY. The schedule has always been Summer Pick 2020 for artic conversion. Reconstruction of the depot does not even begin until January 2019. Right now engineering is in the final design stage for the new layout and rehab of the depot.

No that’s not possible for them to be in one pool. The only depots that will have mixed fleets are MaBSTOA Depots for the time being. Quill, Tuskeegee, Gun Hill, and Kingsbridge. All of the LFSA’s are leaving Flatbush and Hale, as they did Casey Stengel. And any line can use a rigid bus for increased service. Doesn’t look like TA wants to make an increase tho.

What difference does it make? Why the big deal about one bus. First of all FB still has several older XD40’s on the line so everything is taken care of. The line does not have 50 buses so this does not apply. Besides there are enough buses citywide to cover service with a good spare factor. If a bus is not available they can run a local bus on an SBS line as they have many times before. It’s not going fully articulated for the time being and we already discussed this in detail.

WHY is this discussion going on in this thread!!!!!????????? @JeremiahC99 This is the absolute last time I’m saying take this to Fleet and Depots. I’m not about to sit up and move your discussions everyday because you don’t know how to listen. This is the last time I’m going to say it. Next time you will be suspended and all of your posts will have to be approved my a staff member before they will be visible. Final warning.

They were correct with the reported loans. 5148 and 5171 were in fact on loan to EN. Please be careful everyone. Just because you see a bus somewhere one day at a specific time doesn’t mean it never left that depot if you see it again a short time later. So always keep that in mind.

It will be as needed. Whatever the route calls for is what will happen. It’s not a standard thing sand never has been. I will be going over the next 20 pending SBS routes starting this morning. Why would they need to get rid of a route? They would just be replacing standards with artics. And they would only need about 32 artics with spares if they do a standard conversion and increase headways. That will replace the all the standards on the line, and additional spare factor would also be included with the B44+, which would share the fleet. If they increase service then yes about 35 would be needed. But 48 buses would be displaced. 17 additional artics. The B44+ needs more than it has now during the school season. During normal school season rush hour you can easily have about 40 standards out there at a time. Some in transit, some deadheading, and other on layover or swing. It’s not a practice here now. It’s either one or the other. MTA evaluates the route and bases it off the findings. At that point it is decided if the line will be artics or standard. Some lines may start with standard like the Bx6+, B46+, and B82+ for example. When buses become available and the line warrants conversion then it will happen. The 6, 82 and like in the future the 46 will go all artics. The only mixed fleet will be the B46, which is not a standard practice. The Bx6 is in conversion. Those last 2 buses are only used during rush hours and weekends for the most part. The school season assignment for peak B44+ service plus spares will be 41. 38 without. The spare factor will be included with the B46+. There are always spares.

Dude.... What in the hell are you talking about? First off Cuomo doesn’t fund anything. The State of New York and the federal government does. He just allocates funds on behalf of the state. On another note, This “Cuomo” wrap, as everyone is dubbing is an inaccurate label anyway. MTA has been working on almost everything introduced under him for quite a while. The only thing he has done is speed things up and get more involved. The new scheme and amenities were introduced on buses that were funded 100% by the FTA. Not the state. The old scheme was dated, and talk of changing it has been years in the making. Who put the NYCB titles on the buses is not important either.

What are you hoping that’s the case for? I just said what’s happening here. It’s only a systems merger coming for right now anyway. The operational merger was complete in 2008. For the time being there will still be 2 different divisions. Unless the State of NY takes over funding of MTA Bus, and the unions work out a deal, the divisions will still operate the way they do now.

Correct. They are both back at Grand.

Definitely not coming in like that. The new branding is simply (MTA). Thats EN putting those on. You know we are a different breed over here in Brooklyn lol. They are the ones who put Bus a couple 4800's and 7000 E10's. Someone was bored. Yeah, but it doesn't work like that. Eventually, which is every day the bus is going to need to go back to the depot. Less time going to and from a depot does not necessarily equate to more reliable service. In fact it would decrease the reliability of service because buses would breakdown more. There needs to be pre-trip inspections, maintenance checks and preventive maintenance performed. You cant just keep buses out on the road like that. They need to be cleaned and they need to have all systems and fluids checked. In terms of electric buses, that will be a different story as you can keep them out a bit longer, however that has to be evaluated and that will take some time. In the meanwhile each manufacturer has a set a maximum mileage or run time that mandates the bus needs to be removed from service at said time for maintenance reasons. If you continue to run any vehicle for long periods like that you are going to develop problems. You are going to have maintenance issues. It is a machine that needs rest, so what he said actually has something to do with everything. It's also not a good idea to have bus operators doing relief all over the place every day in the middle, or the terminal of every line. And contrary to what it may seem, you actually will need more buses. You will now need a greater spare factor, and and more relief buses. With the system we have now, buses are typically out all day anyway, and pull in once. Some not at all. You could pull what you are talking about off in some other cities, but not this one. Especially the way our peek service operates, and the size of the network overall. So yes sometime bus operators will need to drive back to a depot because the bus may need to be scheduled for maintenance, refueled, or needed by another operator for another run. Something else that everyone should note is that 80% of transit agencies, including MTA do not spec fuel gauges on their buses. So running them all day and all night is not feasible either.