Q43 Floral Park

I know the / are isolated so CBTC took less time but when did they start this process exactly? As is, it seems like QB is falling apart to get better. I just hope it's worth it because the concept of another 5-7 years with late night/weekend outages + random signal/track malfunctions basically killing the whole line sounds miserable. They could do that (I doubt they will seeing as how hell bent they were about cutting it back to Court Sq when it was still supposed to go to 71 Av) but it still doesn't help Queens-Manhattan riders. True, I just wonder what the plan will be in those instances... Chambers or 168? While I absolutely see the need to have the serve Midtown and 96 St has the extra capacity, I feel like it's going to be a political/community fight once 14 St reopens.

I think the Bx11 is emptier in regards to interborough passengers because using Ogden at any point takes too long to get from Amsterdam to Jerome. LTDs bypassing Amsterdam will cause people to take the local (a decent amount of people x-fer to the M101) and I don't see you saving too much time skipping Wadsworth... Personally, I think the 22 is fine (imo the best way from the NW Bronx to the SE Bronx as taking the Bx12/ is hit or miss). I do agree on the issue of the Bx36 serving 174 and 180... I tend to hop off it at WF Square for the Q44 when I need Parkchester (even on the LTD that Boston/174 section is a pain). That being said I'm neutral on ending it at WF Square but opposed to turning the Bx36 at Met Oval. It'll miss several bus connections, I don't even think the BxM6 should be ending there and that's not going to get rid of the Bx4A (mainly because it's not going to cover it at all). The Bx4A wouldn't be a thing had they just left the Bx14 alone (I blame Country Club for that cut + the many route changes that happened afterwards) but the Bx24 can't go to Parkchester now so there's nothing that can be done about that now.. Re Bx11: My issue with the Bx11 has always been there isn't a single thing it does in Highbridge (intra or interborough) that the Bx13/35 don't do better. I've usually ended up walking up 170/taking the 18 because it got packed at Jerome. I could be missing something but only useful if one is going to/from Ogden and they you specifically need 170 (and/or a bus connection E of Jerome)... You could fix the later part by extending the Bx13 short turns to 3 Av outside of AM rush as opposed to turning at the Stadium. Part of me wants to say you can leave the Bx36 GWB-Soundview with LTD and extend the Bx11 to Parkchester no LTD if the former just follows the Q44 SBS WFS-HGC.

I mean 6th Avenue work could still potentially prevent it from getting to 96-2Av. It can't access Broadway coming from the Willy B... Seriously? I kind of assumed it'd be done this decade because it seems like they've been working on this forever.. what exactly is the hold up? I mean the is more reliable but yeah we all know the whole not having a yard issue won't fly. The problem I'm seeing with splitting it is: a) are there even enough trainsets available to do this? b) If you give the UES permanent runs now, there's no way they'll be willing to give them up down the road knowing the full won't be a thing for quite some time. When CBTC work is finished eventually, how are you going to explain to Queens they can't get extra local line they desperately need late nights/weekends?

Is there a legitimate reason for sending it to 96 Street over 71 Av knowing QB needs the extra service?

I'm going to leave most of my thoughts on this below in response to B35, but quick question: Why wouldn't your proposed Bx11/35 LTDs keep the same stop as the Bx36 LTD in Manhattan? Also EL Grant/University would be a better LTD stop for the 35 LTD than 170/EL Grant (more x-fers especially if you're going to have it skip Amsterdam).. Personally ranking the 181-Bronx routes for LTD I'd say Bx36>Bx3>Bx35>Bx11=Bx13. It might seem odd to put the 11/13 in the bottom spot together when the Bx13 clearly doesn't need LTD but something about the Bx11 strikes me as a case where LTD wouldn't help it. The lights on 170 between Clay-Jerome + the Bx18s not being able to relieve it + the underpass (170 has the longest one yet somehow it mars traffic) = 10-15 mins to go all of 3-5 stops during peak sometimes. While I agree the WF road section is useless for LTD, I was actually thinking the opposite of the bolded: What's the point of a Bx11 LTD if it's still serving Ogden/Highbridge at all? I know the library is there but imo all of the runs could use EL to 170 if they wanted to speed it up because: a) The Bx13 can and does handle Ogden by itself (the Bx11 just bunches behind it and picks up Wash Hts. riders from the Bx13 short turn) b) There are way too many stops along 168/Shakespeare and additionally they're all walking distance to the Bx13. c) Granted, I don't live in Highbridge but I've yet to see the benefit to getting off at 170 (4)/(D) vs. 161 when the Bx13 is more frequent, has runs that start at the train and they usually dump most passengers by W 163/165. As for the Bx35 LTD, traffic seems to flow more on 167 (that light at Morris is trash) but the turn at Webster is a chokepoint. LTD service would stop the bunching but I'm inclined to think that short-turning some Bx35s at the bridge would help also (I've never seen a Plimpton 11/ Grant/University 35 before).

I highly doubt this is a transfer but 4087 was on the Bx11 yesterday afternoon. Is WF short again?

I don't see the logic in dead-ending the lane short when they could have just turned the Lane into a 1-way after 220 St that fed into the N/B side of the Blvd (if the concern was about people trying to make a left from the Lane onto the Blvd?) but the damage is already done and I doubt they'll rectify it. Part of me wants to say that's fine though. Run it Lane-220-146-Blvd and the N/B stops at Sp Ln/147, Sp Ln/220 and then Sp Bl/146. 220/221 are about as wide as 174 St and the Q42 runs in both directions on the latter.

3301 is on the QM8. Still has LGA stickers tho

Springfield Blvd to 147 av, layover at the corner, left on 147, left on Springfield Ln which runs right back into Springfield Bl (It's hard to see because the Google Map is a mess in that area and the bus map implies Springfield Bl goes south of 147 when it's the lane that does). Move the E/B LTD Q114 Stop to Springfield for x-fers and keep the W/B at 222; N/B Q77 would stop opposite it on SF Lane. Granted the furthest I've taken the 77 is Merrick but the extension made sense to me on paper given Brookville/Q114 has a tendency to be useless in any type of inclement weather. The headways are trash at times and using Franny Lew to the Av is roundabout but imo having the Q77 as backup is better than just having the Q111 in those cases. I've also been of the mindset that the Q85 should use Huxley to the X63 terminal but I need to ride it down there and walk around before really making that call. As is, you can't get to the LIRR by bus from South Rosedale and I can't comprehend how that hasn't been raised as an issue. The Q26 was brought up a few pages back and I'm iffy on touching it. For some reason, I prefer the 26/30 combo to Flushing over the 27/30 and absolutely over the 12/36 (From Flushing, I'm using the 17/30 even though that x-fer can be messy at times). Should it be ending at HHE/Franny Lew? No because apart from the supermarket, diner and St. Francis, it's a dead intersection. Should it go to QCC? Yes. Should it be taken off Hollis Court to be the local 27? Probably not. That area is the middle of the 27/30/76 and despite the former two having short turns, its a dead zone for service. Also those lights on 46-48 avs are awful. I've missed the last W/B 26 run on a few occasions and come to the conclusion that no matter which way you walk, getting from HHE to 47 is a pain in the behind.

The process is so tedious, anyone trying to do it is going to miss the bus. I mentioned half fare metrocards but considering it requires a swipe and change, I'm not sure how it works with SBS. IMO, all of the SBS machines should accept both coins and cards. Last I heard, they stopped accepting dollars bills at the onset of MTA Bus because the system MTA used to collect fares was different from that of the private lines. They do that because the local could come first in some cases and they may not have an unlimited. The Eagle Team can delay service by 5-15 minutes.... I've had instances where no one was getting on/off (everyone was on the 2 buses in front of us) and we still had to wait. The loop never made sense to me but I understand re: Glenwood being 2 way. I'm still a little confused as to where/if the late night B82 is stopping between RP and E 105. Would signal priority on Rockaway Pkwy help? They expected people to abandon ship.... the 12 local is bunching just as much as the SBS with half the service....

So then it's useless in NYC... Not accepting exact fare is laughable because you would have to set up a means of adding to money to a tap and go card in every local community.. Mm, would it kill them to use Flatlands at night? I forgot about ETC but right outside of SI these things are non-existent. Do people drive to St. George and take the ferry? or is MTA mainly collecting those fares.

Even if they switch to a tap and go "Charlie card" like system, that's not going to change the fact that SBS has to have off board payment or that paying in exact change will still be a mess. It will stop a couple people from missing the SBS though.. The Florence payment system kind of relies on faith and they already don't trust NYers paying for SBS before boarding. It's bad enough when they hold a SBS bus to check, we can't have someone on every local/LTD and SBS bus to ensure that payments are made. Nope, I'm following along. It doesn't change that congestion pricing in any form, won't work without more park & rides and not just in areas with trash public transportation. DOT only has AM hours on the site.

1. The efficiency depends on the standard used... Are we comparing it to other N/E regional bus systems? International systems? At the end of the day it might not be as efficient as it could be but it still moves people 24/7/365 (read it's more than 50% efficient). 2/3. As someone who lives off the local variant of an SBS route, no. Some people are already walking far enough to get to the bus route, and the nature of the payment system is exactly why people still flock to the local (try paying for the SBS with change or half-free student metrocard). They already went down the path of on/off-board payment, I don't see a way to consolidate that as you can't have off board everywhere and putting on-board back on SBS = LTD + bus lanes. So basically Florence has a farebox by each door on the bus itself? I see people here just not paying, a need for more inspectors, which means more delays and unnecessary fines. 4. How would you implement congestion pricing in the Bronx and Staten Island (2 places with no standard "CBD nucleus")? BK has 1.5 and Queens has at least 3 "CBD nuclei"? The bolded, your lack of logic has officially lost me. You can't claim to be unable to understand the correlation I made between park & rides and getting drivers on mass transit while on the topic of congestion pricing, turn around and regurgitate what I said almost verbatim with the additional claim that someone "attacked the concept" and then say "oh well since we're on the topic, we need more" as if it were an original thought. I just said that. Lol there's nothing stopping the Q22/QM16 from a "Breezy Point/B 201 Street" terminal if that's what they wanted. Hell it could go all the way to end at B 227 but then so could people from Far Rockaway.... 4a. I'm not using the construction as an excuse and I've been a Deegan express bus rider far longer than you to know that in the past they had enough buses on there to justify it once. My point was the Gowanus/LIE/Bruckner/SI all currently have a lot more express buses per hour than the Deegan does. As for the HOV lanes, I don't know the rules (nor have I used any of the Gownaus express routes) but none of them are in the PM and that's when the Deegan would need them most. It is feasible but a HOV lane isn't going to stop E138 from being the choke point or that buses will have difficulty getting across to in the left lane (AM or PM). 5. Glad we finally agree on something...

Buses in NYC do effectively move people... the exact percentage of efficiency really depends on the standard used. I just said take an example from MBTA and apply it here because as Rail pointed out, Boston and NYC have similar set ups. I know that feature works because it saved me from walking on quite a few frigid nights. Obviously not opposed to applying principles that work in environments comparable to ours. I can't say whether or not Florence's buses are comparable to NYC because I haven't been and you aren't exactly spelling out what makes it successful and would it be economically feasible to implement on a larger scale. Quick question how is the transportation system in Florence funded? MTA being a day late and a dollar short makes sense when you consider there's never been a mass federal push for public transportation infrastructure like there was for driving infrastructure. We've been discussing this throughout the thread... SBS service becomes overkill when the local service tanks because it ignores the fact that the latter has it's own market. I think MTA jumped ahead of themselves by liberally applying SBS wherever (setting the precedent that traditional LTD service is no longer needed) rather than actively applying both services. You might call it backwards but it would the same as them walking back some of the 2010 cuts; we need regular LTDs because we can't SBS everything. I'm not sure how something logically valid/sound is an excuse but you clearly missed me saying that congestion pricing (which wouldn't be applied in the outer boroughs) would negatively impact that less affluent populations.. Do you drive? because you conveniently left out that park & rides are pretty crucial in encouraging drivers to use mass transit. All we have is what Outerbridge (X22) and Riis Park (QM16) ? If someone has to move the car in the AM, and the options are spend a) 20-30 minutes looking for parking by the train/bus +commute time, or b) spend that time in Deegan traffic, they're clearly driving to work). I told you this before but besides not having even have enough lanes on the Deegan as is (especially with this god awful construction), I don't think we have the buses per hour to warrant that. The Bruckner/LIE sure but the BxM1-3/4C/18 aren't pulling that much weight especially with half the Bxm1's using the HR. You'd do better running everything via HR and putting lanes there 132-179... As for the dispatchers... I'm trying not to be jaded because their jobs matter but I haven't seen many do anything to make life easier... Prime example, a parade goes up Mad, everything's on 3rd in theory, yet you can't find any officials to know if buses are actually making corresponding stops and how that works when the Mad stops don't match the 3rd stops.

It's always the person with a holier than thou complex, telling someone else they have it. No I'm busy trying to discern information about the issues I care about, but if I was petty enough to do that I have the strange feeling, I'd end up agreeing with Rail further.... I don't think anyone is better than anyone else.... . you tried to put him in his place and others might have let it rock but I didn't. so it's okay that you're vexed in my book. We aren't done though because you misread my post again, I said the alternative to SBS on the Bx19 was limited. As for the Bx6, and LTD that would all depend on the stops selected (could've been the same as the SBS). IMO LTD service allows to see whether or not SBS will be overkill. You don't need my permission to form an opinion, but what's beyond? 3 Av, Intervale? HP? I just want to be able to comprehend how much of the same territory we covered on a route. lol this isn't europe, Rail pointed out all of the flaws in using Florence's bus system as a foundation to revamp ours. We discussed this before but you feel that people use cars because they want to and I think the that (and history shows) that people use cars in the city because the bus-train set up in their area hasn't been revamped in years. In regards to a "unified" system (I need a definition) but I'm with him in theory, it's not implausible. Signal priority sure, congestion pricing maybe (but this could easily disproportionately affect those of lower socioeconomic status), bus lanes on the Deegan waste of time. One of the easiest ways they could unify and improve bus-train connections is by having buses depart 2-3 mins after a train is set to a arrive (in the case of routes that end at stations) and holding the last bus for train connections. MBTA and I believe CTA do this. What confused me is whether or not, Glenwood is 2-way when SBS is done for the night. I'm not to familiar with that part of Flatlands but the Ralph part looked messy.

I don't have the time or patience to search through threads and review your debates. The point remains that in the here and now he's attempting to broaden his horizons (props to him). Whether or not, you feel its late, is a personal sentiment we don't need to deal with publicly. We aren't having these discussions in any form of official transportation planning capacity and last I checked there's no official standard on personal knowledge regarding any subject... so if the bolded is a personal standard you've set, yikes, you aren't even meeting it... As I said for the Bx6, the Alternative would/could be traditional LTD but I feel you jumping on the proverbial bandwagon... it's always a good look after just getting on someone for their deficiencies on the same matter . I'm walking across 135/138 anyway because 20 minute headways.... SBS might make me wait (I'm not serious, I'd still walk). Since SBS started, it seems like protocol has become to leave passengers visibly at the stop (on all routes). I'm struggling to see the logic behind this (especially on SBS routes) because the op can't know where the follower is (unless their bunched). The wait could be 2-20 minutes anyway. I'm going to make an assumption here (I'm sure you'll be able to make it out) who is going to tell an op to cut their layover short, leave early and make sure they do it?

The thing about a thread is you can go back a couple pages and get receipts.... In his initial post he never said he only used the subway nor did he state that "we're "limiting" ourselves from a transit perspective"... you did. He said "[he] knows next to nothing about the bus system" and you can still use something without having a full comprehension of it. I never said ride the entire route at once as that would be time consuming (people ride routes [ex. the Q46] from end to end everyday for work). I said that before making a call on the 145 Street portion, it might be a good idea for both of you to familiarize yourselves with the other portions of the Bx19 so that you can see the big picture. I never stated I had an issue with you telling him to ride the Bx19, I stated I had an issue with your tirade and saying he should be ashamed of himself. Going off the facts presented, an ad hominem argument isn't a means of encouraging someone, its berating them and warrants an apology. There's no standard on a "good feel for a route" as every individual has a different sense of direction and amount of time it takes to process, assess, analyze and formulate thoughts from new information. You're implying someone can comprehend the entire list of issues with a 6.8 mile route by riding 1.2 miles of it (17.6%). That's like me telling someone, go ride the Glen Oaks Q46 from Kew Gardens to Parsons and tell me if it needs SBS. They would have to assume that the conditions (time of day, weather, vehicle type, passenger load etc.) on the ridden section fit the norm for the entire route and that's illogical without supporting data (something the average NYer doesn't have/know). The Bx19 is serving 2 boroughs + areas with different geographical features, uses 40/60fts and hits most of its points of interest in the Bronx. I'm not saying riders can't gauge the issues from experience. I'm saying it wouldn't be rational to draw a specific conclusion from the Lenox-Riverbank section alone, apply it generally to the entire route and say you comprehend/know how to rectify it's issues. I already stated I'm not an expert on the Bx19, but if you were confident in your previously obtained expertise on the Bx19 and already set on it needing SBS, when Rail asked about it, you wouldn't have said "I don't know about it having SBS, or not" originally or followed up with "You think so? Why is that?" when B35 stated it was a matter of time.... To put this is in terms you might understand, The Bx7 and express rush hour experiments are exactly why you can't look at a portion of a route (in this case the Bx19s unreliability on 145), slap a quick Rush hour fix on it to somewhat pacify people (sending the M1 across 145), and expect things to improve. If the main demographics aren't benefiting, it's destined to fail. This one of those rare times when SBSing a route has few drawbacks (again as B35 said as long as they don't botch it). If it's a crosstown, it's the worst one because there is nothing stopping it from getting to Riverside Dr while serving CC. They seem intent on SBSing every crosstown though but I wonder how that one would go...The last block of the Bx12 is a hill and all hills between the bridge and University also. As far as I know none of the Bx-Manhattan routes have short runs that mainly serve the Manhattan side. All of the Bx12 SBS runs go to Pelham Bay at least and I don't expect to see Bx6 SBS runs dropping anywhere West of HP .

thanks, I'll check this out. I'm not sure what standard protocol is but in my neck of the woods, dispatch just calls the op mid route. I was under the assumption that the change in designation sign could at least be reported via wi-fi/gps but I suppose it's not the case. The alternative is following the title of the thread and making the Bx19 SBS... It's that simple. Local maybe stays in the Bronx (Bx Term Market-NYBG), SBS serve the whole thing. Honestly, don't see the point in the local continuing to serve the whole route post-SBS but it was explained to me in another thread that's needed on the Bx6, so that depends on whether or not the SBS can hold down 145 alone. Quite frankly, The M1/7 terminal isn't broken and its illogical to me to move routes from terminating in front of the depot just because. Adding a deadhead anywhere increases the chance of runs being late and headways being missed for starters... You still haven't explained how adding the M1 to 145 would help the M1 or its riders, where the extra buses would come from (is MHV supposed to pick up runs?), headways, hours, you know anything useful to transportation planning.... IMO its the same as them attempting to add rush hour artic Bx7 service between 231-263, only putting a patch on an issue because you aren't looking at all of the factors at play. He blatantly asked not to "have hes knees (proverbially) chopped off" and you tried it anyway. You went at him for several posts on hypocritical grounds, telling him to do something you're unwilling to do and knowing you haven't ridden the full Bx19 to have the knowledge you're telling him to discern. None of these are opinions, they're facts. You could say that being hypocritical doesn't warrant an apology and that would be an opinion (the wrong one but still). I don't care about your personal convictions on Native NYers and public transportation, I just care about this board being a tolerable place for communication. You're free to think whatever you want but once you put it out in the universe, others are free to respond. I didn't say anything about him getting into with others in the thread because they checked him and he apologized. You came at him first and I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong but its the mature thing to do.

Sorry for the double post. The data has to come from MTA. In regards to that specific app, the issue I noticed is that you don't always have an option of viewing all of a route's terminals (Ex. You can see the E/B LIJ Q46 runs but not the GO or Springfield runs) or a short turn gets inaccurately reported as a full run. I assume the latter is an issue in regards to the developers method of relaying the data but I'm not a heavy tech person. Besides the MTA app missing stops/ having them inaccurate locations, it can't account for mid route adjustments or short turns that aren't built into the schedule (ex. Bx3 runs to Kingsbridge will always be reported as Riverdale runs).

A) all bus trips are joyrides and/or for some work/recreational use (read going to conduct some activity) B) he hasn't taken joyrides C) he has taken bus trips for work/recreational purposes (mainly driving but that's irrelevant) Conclusion, he only uses buses for work/recreation. I wasn't making an assumption, I was applying the basic rules of logic. Furthermore, I'm not on a holier than thou tip, I'm on a "Having used the Bx19 along it's entire route over the past couple years, I'm more familiar with the subject matter than you" tip. Someone more well-versed on the Bx19 (ex. someone who uses it daily) could easily come in this thread and correct any of my remarks. I'd respect their posts, ask questions and then find peace in the fact that I learned something new. I'm not telling you to be me... What I am telling you is that I'm not okay with your hypocrisy. You claimed to be a false authority on the Bx19, berated someone else for their ignorance on the matter, then openly stated your unwillingness to take the time to gain firsthand experience by riding the entire Bx19. Lastly, you're seemingly incapable of admitting that's not how an adult should conduct themselves on a public forum. Knowing the M1 can be subpar as is, you want to give the operators another legitimate reason (I was stuck on 145) to be late? Where are you getting extra buses for these frequencies when EG and CB10 won't even let MCH house the max buses it was rebuilt for? Not enough room to turn 3 routes at Riverbank; turning at B'way full time means buses laying over and blocking the Bx19 stops in both directions... I can already see a wheelchair passenger needing the Bx19 and the op being out in the lane. Turning at any of the streets E of B'way defeats the purpose of an extension. Even if you do the poor man's Q36 split to B'way... it'd be going off the assumption the main problem is getting people across 145 St (which assumes most aren't trying to cross the bridge and want to stay in manhattan). IMO, this won't make the full Bx19 any more tolerable because putting the Bx2 on E149 made it clear that the issue isn't a lack of parallel bus service (the Bx2 could honestly go back to 165 if they SBS'd the 19). The issue is the Bx19 is the only efficient way to get from E 149 to W145 St without backtracking via train a ridiculous amount. If it's still making every stop, bunching and late nothing will change for it's base ridership.

It'll add 5-10 mins alone and they'd have to put the short turn Bx13 stop back on Jerome but that's better than the current plan. Short turning at Lenox seems late in the game, It's still going to take some time to get that run back to Fordham. I wonder if they could combine the Bx6 local short turns (HP-Southern) with a Bx19 short turn to Fordham when SBS starts... He could easily fall into the same category as you (he seemingly expressed such sentiments) + your lack of experience with the Bx19 means you weren't knowledgeable on the matter until discussion on the thread so again, its the pot calling the kettle black as I said. What's shocking to me is that you think there's another route available to run on 145 St and that even if such a route existed, it would be able to serve enough of the Bx19 base to alleviate it without replicating it's route to the point of redundancy. Look at the maps... The only routes nearby are the M1/7/102 (no); I'm not even going to break down why the Bx1 can't; the Bx2 has been butchered enough and going west instead of east just moves the issue from one side of the bridge to the other; the Bx13 as is, is a surprisingly messy route considering its brevity, it definitely can't support interborough travel on 145 and 181; the M11(good luck getting EG to let a 4th route terminate over on Lenox) and that leaves making the Bx46 a branch of the Bx19... which voids my second point because you'd have to cut it into the 19 at Southern and lose whatever ridership it was getting at Prospect or run it via the Bx4/17 into the Bx19 (too much overlap). Not to mention the fact that the MTA Bus/Subway Apps haven't been updated in years/crashes at random so buses straight up go missing, Google Transit mobile will only give you 4 route options (they aren't always guaranteed to the be the best IMO) and the main third party app (screenshotted earlier) has an issue accounting for short turn runs.

I can't speak for the other ones but: Bx12 Local: only route serving a part of a KB heights = market. market - layover zone = inconsistent headways= I'll just walk to the SBS/across Fordham/go another way. I know the challenges but you've often expressed its a combination of not wanting to interact with Bronxites and the time issue.... I don't want to digress too much... It's quite simple, you owe him an apology because he asked that no one proverbially chew him out and you did just that. I know people who have lived in the Bronx/City for decades and I'm teaching them to use the local/express buses now because they always drive. You laugh at it but don't berate them for the inexperience. Just like you told him to go ride the Bx19, you should probably ride the Bronx portion and report back because that's a majority of the route (the BG section is often dead btw; the Bx26 is the preferred route). It runs every 4-10 mins during the most part so frequencies aren't really the problem. It has the same issue as the Bx15 in that it's both a N/S Bronx route and Manhattan crosstown. The difference is, every 19 has been running the full route, its the sole route on 145 (which is hilly af) and there's no LTD. Even if you short-turned runs BG-The Hub, they'd still be bunching being forced to make every stop. They do these deadheads on local routes and forget the fact that it does nothing for the passengers they bypass. Very few operators will also make the personal call to hold at a stop when they see bunching ahead. As for the gaps, Terminal regulation in the sense of making sure runs arrive and depart on time is seemingly non-existent on both local and SBS routes. The only place I've seen daily consistent regulation of a terminal is Kew Gardens with the Q46...

I think we agree in that MTA is late and that SBS/BRT in any form isn't a panacea to all bus issues. Granted, I'm not exactly sure what SBS should look like ideally, but I think the difference between it and LTD is that the way MTA chose to go about this, there are certain routes they simply won't be able to SBS (off board payment or bus lanes). They also know that they still need to be looking into new "traditional" LTD runs for the Bx/Bk and some pick up/drop off only LTDs for Queens. One of the main issues I have with off board payment is that the decrease in dwell time leads to missed buses. Especially on the Bx12 SBS, Operators have no incentive to wait at a stop even if they see 2 buses have just departed. Next thing you know, there's a 15 minute gap in service. It also doesn't appear they're distributing services evenly... where are the countdown clocks and automated announcements for the Fordham/Webster routes? Interestingly enough, I think the Bx12 SBS is making more stops now than the LTD. Besides the new part of Bay Plaza, they randomly added Stillwell as a stop a few months back (It was never an LTD stop and putting the Jacobi stop back would have been a better idea seeing as the local service is trash). The trip is faster though except when the ticket checkers stop the bus. My question is why have they completely given up on the LTD concept? and why are the local variants of SBS routes being left out to dry when they know they have markets the SBS can't tap? Re: the Q21/52, I think so and the last LTD up here was the Bx36. Tbh, in the past 8 years, I would've thrown "traditional" LTD Service on the Bx3/6/9/28 (wouldn't have split the later); left the Bx15 alone and SBS'd the Bx12, and the 41/55 (both from GH-149). At least having LTD service on the Bx6 would have made it easier to discern whether or not it needs bus lanes and off board payment to speed trips up or if this is overkill. My opinion is the latter especially because they aren't going to take advantage of using all of HP Av. You missed the E/B Bx6 stop at River Av on the main road that's parallel to the 149 St Bx13 stop and that's the one that will become the E/B SBS stop. The local E/B Bx6 and 3 Av Bx13 will stop at Gerard. The general rule is that SBS/local runs don't share the same stop (I haven't ridden all of them, so there may be an example). So the issue is that the current W/B Bx6 stop at River becomes the SBS stop and the local goes from Sherman to Gate 4 of Yankee Stadium with no stops. I guess the Bx46 could go to Gateway with the Bx13, I just really feel like its a waste of a route. The person who will take an express bus/MN into manhattan and x-fer to N/B express bus just to get to another part of the Bronx (to "limit" interacting with the general population) is judging someone who came on the thread openly expressing their inexperience regarding bus service? Yikes. Should've just said "I'm not that familiar with the entire Bx19 route to make that call", and let someone else address it. At least have the decency to apologize to him for that unnecessary tirade. Reality is under MTA's current definiton of SBS, the Bx19 would be a decent candidate. Traditional LTD service wouldn't speed up trips as it'd still be making way too many stops on the Bronx side and off board payment/less stops would speed up the drag on 145/149. As B35 said, they could just run it via Hoe/Vyse where the is on Southern... Maybe it's because they harped on this so much with the Bx12 @ the UH Bridge but I was under the assumption that this was a integral part of the SBS foundation on all routes. Are there some without signal priority?

I do agree that the logical progression should be local -> local/LTD -> local/SBS. It's why I'm kind of surprised they pushed for this before making the Bx15 SBS but they haven't even contemplated new LTD Service in the Bronx since 09. I can think of at least 4 routes that need LTD service, even if its only on a segment of the route/rush hours only (including the Bx6). I'm not convinced they did this on the Hunts Point side.... from my experience Lafayette/Coster has high ridership than Seneca (the post office is near the former for one thing) and Seneca is literally the stop after the . I'm not too familiar with the ridership south of Spofford/HP but if the point is to speed up rides, wouldn't it have made more sense to have it stop at Southern, Lafayette, Spofford, then use HP Av straight to Food Center Dr? Viele also seems unnecessary. Not sure if you're familiar with the area but River and Gerard are adjacent to each other. The presentation leaves me with the impression the SBS will keep the current Bx6 stop W/B, E/B SBS gets a new stop before the light at River, and the local keeps the E/B stop at Gerard which is fine. The problem is actually the fact that they plan on putting the new W/B local stop at the Bridge Overpass (I'm assuming they expect anyone going west to use the SBS) but its way too far from River to expect passengers coming from the east to walk .The W/B Bx6 local either needs to use the service road from Sherman-River and stop with the Bx13 (not happening) or they remove the parking on the NW side of 161/River and add the stop there. The way I see it, the Bx46's chances of garnering anymore usage than it currently has just went out the window. The only thing I can think of is making it a branch of the Bx6 local.

Acknowledging MTA failed to supply adequate service historically while implying its in any way due to population preferring to show off via cars isn't a very rational thought process but I don't want to keep going in circles. The BxM10 terminal is in Baychester but an extension to Edenwald or Eastchester would be beneficial because I doubt many people are willing to take a bus to the BxM7/10/11. In regards to MP, people who don't have cars aren't going to Westchester. They may go to Manhattan but with the out a lot, Bay Plaza is the nearest shopping area to Morris Park and those blocks are long. We've discussed this on the thread before but every Bx9 going to 262 puts too much service up there and on the weekends the traffic between 230-238 snarls service along the whole thing. They need to short-turn buses back to WF at Bway-225. All you have to do is tell someone the BxM3 (or any route) is there and where it goes... In my experience thats often enough to encourage ridership. The old Bx31 terminal never seemed efficient but I never used it. I've always wondered if it's faster to take the (4)/Bx16 than the (5)/Bx16. Re: the Bx16 riders who want the West side can get the first, and Bx10 riders use BPB. The Bx28/34/38 stop always seems more crowded at 206. Every time I've used the Bx16, someone has boarded on Webster but those lights on 233 are horrid and it ends up on top of a Bx34. Again, this was a service outside of city lines when MTA inherited it. Cutting service along the Q111/113 Local, BxM3, QM6, would have been more trouble than it was worth. They haven't added a new route across a city line since the S89. With Mount Vernon, in all seriousness what's up there that Bronx riders will want to access?