Trainmaster5

Glad to see your reference to the streetcars. Many people are unaware of that fact. I wonder what they think of the Montague tunnel job. Has anyone proposed shaving that tunnel for clearance ? Would be a better place for the to spend their money in my opinion. Then again this agency can't connect partially constructed tunnels north of 96th and Second Avenue. Carry on.

As a person who worked work trains in the Steinway tubes in the prehistoric era it’s my observation that the only way B division equipment could traverse this area is if the tubes were shut down and replaced with wider tunnels. R62 equipment scraped the walls when they underwent testing. The door indication lights on the upper car bodies were being knocked off in the tubes. I’ve walked from First Avenue uphill to the Grand Central platform a few times and it is a tight fit. We would rather take a diesel and a flat car rather than a diesel and a rider car through the area because the former seemed safer than the latter. My personal experience. Carry on.

Think about the Steinway tubes under the East River. Get my drift ? In other words what happens to the segment between Vernon-Jackson and Hudson Yards ? Pretty tight fit for B division equipment. Carry on.

Been debating whether to bring this up or not in the past but with all of this free time here's my random thought(s). There's no slight or antagonistic feelings directed toward any forum members but after a discussion with some of my school car buddies I (we) should point out a difference in our way of thinking about some subjects. From our earliest training in RTO transfers are frowned upon. The very act of making a transfer introduces a delay in one's commute and adds to the running time. This includes cross platform connections. There's a reason why this is one of the things stressed in conductor training. It is especially to be avoided in commission (rush) hours. I've seen proposals mentioned that IRT service in Brooklyn should be divided where Seventh Avenue trains run exclusively on the Nostrand line while Lex service runs out to Utica/New Lots. It's been said that this will speed up service and more trains can be run through the area. We look at it in another way. Whom is clamoring for more trains, in the morning rush, to head toward Manhattan from Brooklyn ? Short of a rebuild of the junction someone is going to be sitting at Nostrand or President no matter what. Train crews aren't complaining because it's built into the schedule. From what I see you've just moved the delay to Franklin Avenue and the cross platform transfer that's to be avoided. Perhaps some posters aren't old enough to realize that the East-West combinations on both branches was something that the ridership clamored for for years, that and Mid-day express service in Brooklyn. While we're speaking of transfers how many are aware of why the , , and services are set up entering and leaving Queens toward Manhattan ? It's because of the major bottleneck at the Lexington-53rd station. The transfer to the Lex would create dangerous conditions almost every morning on the platforms. There weren't enough stairways to allow the passengers from the first train to leave before the second train arrived. The 63rd St option allowed the crowding problem to be alleviated by running the that way while leaving the old option of Sixth Avenue-Eighth Avenue service at 53rd St with the split. What we were taught is that train routing and service was supposed to be for the benefit of the riders. More trains running, by itself, does not equate to a better commute. Although those days are long gone I can give you an example of service geared toward the commuter. Rush hour BMT from Queens. #15 service running skip-stop from 168th St. Trains were labeled A or B making stops like today's . There were Lexington Avenue (BK) el trains starting at 168th St or 111 St, #14 Broadway(BK) Short line trains entering at Crescent St or Eastern Parkway or Rockaway Parkway headed toward Downtown Brooklyn or Lower Manhattan. Meanwhile the Fulton El had trains headed toward the same destination from Lefferts with a rush hour variant toward 8th Ave-14th St (today's ). I'm leaving out the Myrtle and the Southern BMT intentionally but I'm trying to point out service geared toward the rider. All done with no CBTC, towers at 168th, tower 1, 2, and 3, at Atlantic, the flyover, end of platform at Eastern Parkway, Broadway and Lex, and Myrtle upper. BTW the BMT Southern ran 5 services through 57th-7th every rush hour, again no CBTC. Two locals, (QT), , and three expresses , , and . It appears, at least to me and some of my coworkers, that some folks are like a poster we all know who just wants to run trains randomly on all tracks for whatever reason. Just our take. YMMV. Carry on.

BMT Eastern is your Jamaica line , and , the Myrtle and the Canarsie trains BMT Southern included the , the , the , the Franklin , the Culver and the . Basically anything that ran south of DeKalb in the old days. That would include the West End variants. It's easier to remember it as today's B1 Division as per it's TA radio channel label. I will point out that the Flushing is also B1 because of it's history. Simply put the other lettered lines are considered B2 division, today's IND. There are places on lines like the and where the train crews must change their radio's frequency from B1-B2 or vice versa depending on the trackage the train will be traveling on. An example would be an or traveling south of Church Avenue on the Culver line. The IRT is always the A Division but since I worked transfers and work trains early in my career I traveled inter-division at times and had to know which frequency to set my radio to. That was the basic setup. Times have changed so maybe my info is out of date. Around the Horn has the right idea although my friends at Fresh Pond and AY yards might feel left out 🤨. Carry on.

I actually wasn't advocating the reactivation of the Nassau St / Montague service but pointing out the Brooklyn services back then. As far as QBL service via Broadway IMO I would return the to Astoria and run the to Forest Hills. Before people cry about yard access the Bay Ridge and Sea Beach combination would mitigate that problem. One thing that might be solved is the complaints about service in South Brooklyn. Doing so would also give the Operation and Planning folks the option of running either Brooklyn line to Astoria or short turning service at 57-7th, Whitehall, or 59th and Fourth Avenue when or if necessary. Just idle speculation from someone who has experienced many different service patterns over the years as a passenger and as an employee. Carry on.

Let me put it in the simplest terms. There was no IRT express service in Brooklyn except for the commission hours. or to Atlantic Avenue. The BMT ran the Brighton with express and local services. Fourth Avenue had the Sea Beach running express to 59th St while West End had a Montague/ Fourth Avenue service non rush and an Astoria Broadway express service in the rush hours. This was before the 6th Avenue connection with the Manny B. The IND ran no express service in Brooklyn except for the commission hours. Commission hours means rush hours in my school car training. BTW rush hours were 6:30-8:30 am and 4:30-6:30 pm daily. Can the NYCTA do the same thing today? If the funding isn’t coming there’s no choice. If the ridership doesn’t come back to 1980-2000 levels there’s no reason to run more service even if the pandemic problem is over. Businesses dictate the service levels of bus and subways. The NYT, WAPO, WSJ, and other business outlets have already made it clear that they see downsizing or relocation as the smart move. No one except the fanning community is trying to justify an increase in service from pre-pandemic levels. This is what my contemporaries and mentors see for future. None of us claim to be Nostradamus but they all agree that this is the likely path for Transit. Just a collection of opinions from some very knowledgeable folks. I’m just the messenger. Carry on.

The strangest (funny/not funny) part to some of us older folks is the assumptions some people are making about service reductions. As one of my coworkers pointed out he can do a 40% service cut in the IRT by reusing our old work programs from the late ‘70s - mid ‘80s era. No elimination of lines or any stations needed. He laughed at some posts he glanced at and reminded me that our mentor called some old time posters “ my “ little Lionels when I joined this site years ago. Seems like many people ignore the terms frequency and headway. Maybe some of us should rethink and revise some of these ideas. Just a thought. Carry on.

#3- Maybe she has pent up demand that she wants to share with you ? 😊

BTW did anyone see the Twitter rant of his a few days ago ? Dude is totally off the rails. My opinion though. Carry on.

I'm not a B/O but those I do know pointed this out to me in the beginning of this crisis. Basically this is all charged to O.T. and most fans, bus or rail, never considered this fact. Imagine a single B/O with no dependents. After 48+ hours a week you're working for Uncle Sam because of taxes. Depending on your picked job it's not worth it. That's the scuttlebutt I've heard here and there and I can relate to it personally. I ran away from work trains years ago for that very reason. The federal hours of service rules were put into effect for a reason. My take. Carry on.

I'd really like to know what business offices are reopening in the future. The real estate market has already begun retrofitting for less need for office space in the future. Read the business pages of the major newspapers or something like Bloomberg on the radio or cable. That's a better forecast of where the banks, business, and financial institutions are placing their money behind. As they go so goes the . Look at the ridership numbers over the last decade even before the pandemic. It's one thing to replace the older equipment but the need for increasing the fleets isn't clear at the moment. This downturn gives everyone a chance to reevaluate their future needs, including the and the picture doesn't look rosy to me. My opinion. Carry on.

I’m out here in Suffolk and Roadhouse, Popeyes, and almost every burger joint, taco drive through slides you a tray when you’re ready to pay for your purchases on the drive thru lines. They encourage cards but will accept cash lately although some cashiers aren’t to thrilled to handle the bills and the charge. Roadhouse and Famous Dave’s deal with online transactions for the most part. I’ve got gift cards up the ying yang but I have no intention of having a sit down on premise dinner. My experience. YMMV. Carry on.

Just a guess but, depending on where you live in the Northeast or Mid Atlantic states many clerks, cashiers will not touch cash or credit cards. Noticed this in some service stations and convenience stores along I-95, I-295, I-495 between NY and Philly. This is probably a directive from higher level folks who don’t interact with the public. Just another inconvenience to endure these days. My take. Carry on.

Let me make it clear that I’m talking about the Lexington line at Union Square . trains.

In my days we would open the doors that were on the platform . The conductor would open the rear section from their operating position while the M/M would key open the single door panels in the front section with the conductor’s help. Depending on the time of day and the location of the station this could be time consuming. When the job was completed the procedure would be reversed with the rear section closed by the conductor and the M/M- T/O keying closed the open door panels while returning to the operating car. Under no circumstances would a train be backed up or reversed into the station. Once everything is done the train can proceed . I have intentionally left out one step that my fellow RTO folks are aware of. I’ll let them add it if they think that it’s relevant. I know that you’ve been around and I think you can figure it out 😃. I will add that 14th St-Union Square southbound during the rush hour might make the RCC override the above process. Carry on.

I’ve never heard of anyone overshooting Dyckman St. on the in either direction. I would imagine that any problem at that station might have something to do with lighting and/or depth perception more than anything else. It’s possible to overshoot any station depending on knowledge of the equipment and the location. I remember following a train and after stopping at 174St s/b it appeared that my leader overran Freeman. The T/O was a veteran as was the C/R. The train left Freeman and I pulled in. There was a TSS waiting at the 10 car marker and he was laughing when he got on my train. The R142 cars were new at the time and he was the one who had the overrun. That’s why no one called it in. I knew that he did it before he told me what happened. When he asked me how I knew I told him “ it’s 3:15 pm, broad daylight and the wasn’t running 9 car trains “. I never let him operate my train for obvious reasons. Just to reiterate overshooting can happen to anyone and for a variety of reasons. A NTT operating behind the Sperry car is one of the least obvious reasons. That’s because the Sperry puts a fine mist on the running rails. Mott tower at 149th St would warn me personally that the Sperry was operating in front of my train and I knew to operate accordingly. I remember one night I was ahead of the Sperry and my follower wasn’t aware of the danger until he overshot Union Square. He, too, was a veteran but he had never encountered that situation before. To summarize anything can happen to anyone at any time. The rules state to have your train under control at all times. That’s why many of my RTO folks have little or no respect for the speed freak advocates who post. My school car instructors told us that NYCT was not the Indy 500. Carry on.

Having worked Lenox as a C/R and then upfront the storm door had me confused. Back then the had all types of equipment in service. We had cars where the cab doors opened “backwards” compared to the other SMEE cars. Nothing would surprise me but thanks for the history lesson. I’m usually the one giving them😃. Carry on.

Did you stop to think that maybe the “ driver” screwed up and not the train. I don’t know where you got on the train but was it overshooting all of the stops? Just curious. Carry on.

Why do you think that it’s not R33 9306 ? Just curious.

You have the right idea, IMO. Most of the posts in this thread are not based on reality but straight up fantasy. The sad thing is that some of these same posters are advocating new services and new construction in the other threads. I think that’s the reason many old time posters have been inactive for the past few years. Just my opinion. Carry on.

There was a connection from Jackson Avenue westward via Westchester Avenue to150th Street at the north end of the 149th Street El station. The Bergen Avenue cut off curved south above the present day subway tracks and connected with the El tracks about 5 blocks south of the 149th Street El station, hence the Bergen Bypass. The structure for both connections were still visible last time I looked. In other words there were 2 separate ironworks built before the IRT subway was built and connected to the structure. The Bypass tracks were directly above the present day tracks into the the 3rd Avenue-149th St station. Hope this helps clear up the reason for all the excess iron work in the area. BTW most people don't know that there's an underpass in the subway station linking the north and southbound platforms. The El station was located above the southbound subway platform so to make the transfer you would cross below the subway tracks, get your transfer, and then climb the stairs to street level and take the stairs up to the El. I was a RR Porter for a while and I worked this station a few times. I also worked Gun Hill Road on the other end of the El. I think the underpass was sealed off when the El came down and the BX55 bus was created. When I came back to Transit as a C/R I was initially confused about transferring from the southbound to the northbound trains from Tremont on down because the supervisors would say to transfer between trains at the Concourse and I was used to transferring at 3rd Avenue. That's how I found out about the underpass being closed. While I reminisce does anyone know what station the Sears store was located at on the El ? I had to travel from 59th and Lexington when I worked at Alexander's after school to pick up the payroll for our store. All I remember was taking the El, getting off and using a side entrance 2 flights up to pick up the checks in the Sears building where some offices were located. . Back then who would think of accosting a school kid with a shopping bag ? Besides the fact that I had a bus and subway pass and rode free. The elder employee who had the job passed away so I was drafted for the job and did it for 3 weeks.It beat stacking shelves. Carry on.

I believe the southern end was demolished around 1950-51, the Bergen Cut-off that the Second Avenue El used to connect to the WPR line when the El terminated at Freeman St. There was also a connection at the north end of the Third Avenue El station at 149th St. I don't know when that track was severed. When the Third Avenue line became Bronx only the cars were stored and serviced at 239th St yard. We had a few stragglers stored there in the early '80's. My memories. Carry on.

Actually everything wasn't better back then. I have a pretty good memory or so I've been told. I remember a teacher saying that all change is not guaranteed to be better because we humans have a tendency to take backward steps while still insisting it's progress. Just had a conversation with a younger relative who can't imagine what we oldtimers did without calculators and computers. He got silent when I told him that calculators and computers have human input to get results that humans need quickly and are verified by human beings. When he was in grade school I used to mind him a few nights a week and check his homework. I finally met his teacher and we laughed because she was teaching " to the test" but she learned her math differently than she was teaching and I, Mr. Dinosaur, learned a completely different way. As long as we all came up with the same answer it was all good. These are the good old days to the younger generation so I won't rain on their parade. My thoughts. Now back to the topic .Carry on.

Saw that article earlier this morning. Interesting read and rather personal in places. It seems we have a "left hand vs right hand" problem though. Phase 2 of the SAS isn't funded or on the chopping block because of the lack of funding. I wouldn't hold my breath on phase 2. I'm old enough to remember when the Third Avenue El ran in Manhattan. How'd that" Plan for Action" thing work out ? I also recall some tunneling work being done under Second Avenue in the direction of 125th St. Actually I can understand the uncertain circumstance the business owners and residents up there feel. Things are rough all over these days. Carry on.