Trainmaster5

I haven’t been in that yard since the mid eighties. Have they electrified that yard yet ? That was for work trains and M.O.W equipment back in the day. Just asking. Carry on. BTW I normally try to avoid necroposted threads. Excuse me.

Okay now that you both have got your points across let’s be civilized here. I appreciate both of your opinions because they sometimes open my eyes to things that I’ve overlooked or never thought about before. As I’ve said in the past I had some excellent teachers in school car and the last Trainmaster who taught me how to look at things through the eyes of others. I’m including regular riders and rail fans. I’m glad that Kamen Rider has joined the RTO team and RTOMan is satisfying my curiosity about CBTC. Bill from Maspeth has also reminded me of things that I never really paid attention to. Before I end my post let me point out what I learned from those in the know 20+ years ago. CBTC and the overlay (ATS) won’t be ready for the IRT and the whole B Division for 30 years or more. The chief proponents were forced out or sidelined by those who weren’t pom pom wavers. Fifteen years ago when I joined the forums there were folks who tried to explain how scheduling works, especially in locations like the Brooklyn IRT. Most of them gave up and moved away when they realized that they were not getting through to the gung ho rail fans. Why are we sitting here at President St or maybe Gold St, Myrtle in the BMT ? If you arrive at a location 2,3, minutes or earlier to that point the system or the local supervision is supposed to hold you to your scheduled time. Simple concept, IMO. I got a warning from the Command Center when I was a new Conductor because we were 8 minutes early at 145th Street and Lenox on a 59 minute run from Flatbush to Lenox on a Sunday night. My M/M was a senior guy who had to head home to Staten Island from Harlem. As Kamen Rider knows now the Desk Trainmaster said that the Conductor is in charge of the train . The other overlooked concept is that the token, MetroCard, OMNY whatever only entitles you to a ride on the train. Not a seat. That always fascinated me because I had a free bus/train pass since I was in the sixth grade and friendly bus operators would remind me to get up and give my seat to a paying customer. Just a few things I had to pass along. Be safe out there. Carry on.

I actually got a text after my post saying that I had overlooked the obvious. Loss of third rail power in that location. I was reminded of the frequent radio announcements from the Command Center about power outages around the Gold Street/ DeKalb area and how we IRT folks from Brooklyn would give folks alternate directions to reach their BMT south destinations. Nevins, Atlantic, Bergen, Grand Army Plaza were all good for bus service and Franklin had bus service and the Shuttle. Sorry for overlooking the obvious last night. My apologies. Carry on.

There’s obviously something missing in this situation. I’m no expert on R46 equipment but when you say that a train lost power where I come from that means traction power. I can’t see how that affects the AC in the car(s) on the train. I’ve been involved with other than head end operations maybe 5 times in 30 years but I have never heard of a whole consist losing power. That calls for second car operation. I’ve done it with experienced Motor Instructors without any problems. That’s why I don’t like the NTT equipment compared to the SMEE stuff. When I was a Conductor in school car we were taught how to read the signals and the iron so technically we could move the train without supervision on the scene. Be aware that any type of equipment can die at any time. The R46 is old and is being replaced but there’s no guarantee that the new equipment will be far superior than the old model. Just my thoughts. YMMV. Carry on.

Finally, a post with some common sense. That's my personal opinion. They've got maybe four or five test trains running around now ? If you're a relatively new employee perhaps you've been trained on this equipment and feel comfortable operating it. I was on the road when the R62 class of cars were introduced to the IRT. I was more comfortable with the older pre-Redbird cars because that's what I trained on. Through my various job assignments , transfers, utility, extra list and such I decided that I'd rather work the line rather than the solely because of the equipment. I had the seniority plus, to me, the Kawasaki cars sucked. Some of my classmates felt the opposite way and they went the route. Another group of us never worked a road job and stayed on work trains and transfers. When the R142 cars came to the IRT it was still a personal choice. We all trained on the equipment but those of us with seniority pretty much stayed with what we were comfortable with. I listened to the radio chatter between supervision, local and division wide, I was apprehensive when the R142 cars came to the line but I personally stuck with it to the end of my career. Things like the train computer saying that I overshot a station by 80 feet after a perfect 10 car stop with 2 TSS's. standing next to me. How about the announcements and the side sign displays vanishing enroute ? That happened to me a few times when the cars were introduced. Things like announcement not synching up with the train's actual location. Some of these folks should read Kamen Rider's posts or those of RTOman.and understand what they're trying to convey to everyone. I understand that many posters can't wait for the new cars to enter service. Thing is I read the website, forums and such but most of the train troubles seem to be related to switch problems, disruptive riders, debris on the tracks, dirty cars and door problems. If you believe that the introduction of these new cars will make these problems vanish I've got a bridge to sell you. I don't think the cameras have anything to do with the cars themselves. My opinions. Carry on.

Both southbound tracks, local and express. Correction

IIRC the northbound local and express tracks are signed up for 15 mph leaving Nevins and the resume sign is about 1 car length from Hoyt Street on both tracks. Heading southbound on the express track I can slow down where the opening on the local track leads to the ramp to the lower level. The local track is speed restricted entering Nevins at approximately 10 mph. In the ancient times when I was being road qualified if we had to take an excessive brake to enter Nevins we would be told to take a seat after making the station stop. You were admonished for not having your train under control. That applied to both southbound local tracks. When I broke in someone for the road I stressed that very thing. I’ve had supervisors approach me and give me the thumbs up sign when I never even knew they were onboard. They were judging their school car students. Back then we never knew where or when they would show up. My main man came up to me at 9: pm on a Sunday night with his wife and I never saw him get on the train. Simply put if a T/O has to take an excessive brake or come to a stop before entering a station or an interlocking location that person doesn’t have the train under control IMO. Carry on.

Let me enlighten you. There are speed restrictions between Borough Hall or Hoyt Street and Nevins Street in both directions on all tracks as poster Lex has pointed out . Carry on.

Would you consider a river tube a “no clearance zone “ ? I can assure you that you cannot walk around a stopped train in the Joralemon tube in the IRT. If your train goes BIE in the tube you will have to climb up and down between each car in the consist to find the cause of the problem. The catwalks are crumbling even without making contact with a train. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying? Carry on.

I worked the pm tour on the for over 20 years and never had this problem. I was normally on-time at Nevins, Franklin and Utica/ or New Lots so I'm wondering what could be the cause of this perceived delay. My experience though. Carry on.

??? 50 trains or 50 cars. Just asking.

Would you care to elaborate on why you feel this way ?

That’s why there was never any connection built across the bridge into NJ. The IND was a NY based creation that had no authority to build on the bridge and, until the tradeoff of the building of the WTC and the PA having to absorb the PATH system, the Port Authority wanted nothing to do with any rail project. I liken it to a pipe dream like South 4th Street in Brooklyn. Carry on.

If it’s not a PANY&NJ project any proposal concerning the GWB and the is automatically pure fantasy besides being illegal. PATH has a legal right to cross the Hudson River because of the interstate covenant that governs the parent Port Authority which the railroad preceded. The does not have that right. My take. Carry on.

With all the clamor about fleet expansion perhaps someone should explain where the new cars are going to be stored. I’m not familiar with the area leading to 179 st but aren’t some trains laid up on the tracks between stations ? It seems to be an invitation to the perps, IMO. Carry on.

This misconception seems to be rather common in the railfan community. I’ve tried to point out many times that the R46 equipment is a class by itself while the R62-68 class is SMEE, and the newer equipment is NTT. Carry on.

Until the power goes out and you’re stuck in a river tube somewhere. Then no equipment of any type is gonna help you. Humans can.

Things never change. I watched the same thing happen when the R62 and the R142 classes were introduced to the IRT. Eventually they became accepted by most of the crews. I’m sure that nobody wants to be the Guinea pig /aka / crash test dummy. I was working on the when the R142a cars were introduced to the . The radio transmissions between the crews and local supervisors and those of the RCC in the beginning were enough for crews to transfer to other lines. When the R142 was introduced to the I told a TSS that the equipment was not up to snuff, IMO, but eventually things would work out. When I made a station stop at the 10 car marker at Morris Park s/b I showed the TSS that TOD showed that it overran the station by 80 feet and that would be recorded in the black box . Eventually the glitches were corrected. I somewhat understand the reluctance of some folks to deal with the new features. I’ve had coworkers who hated R62 and R142a equipment because they were manufactured by Kawasaki. I was always in the Bombardier camp because I was more comfortable in their cars. I was more qualified on the R62 cars than most road crews on the at the start. I remember the exodus of the senior M/M on the line when the first line pick happened. Eventually things will get better. You learn to adjust. My first road experience was pre- Redbird and I learned to adapt to whatever was assigned to me. To my crew it’s R46, R60s, and NTT. Once you learn the differences between NTT i assume it wouldn’t be a major problem. As far as the camera goes just look at the LIRR. My take. Carry on and be safe out there.

You seem to be one of the few people who can get the big picture. Left unsaid is the total automation of the subway system. I remember laughing when someone posted about running more service. Theoretically that might be true but no one in authority is claiming that. Just my opinion. Carry on.

In Fantasy Land, maybe. Get back to us while I’m waiting for my connection at South Fourth Street. It’s running late ⏰.

Greetings to all my fellow posters. I hope you had a safe and wonderful holiday. I personally touched base with 5 of my colleagues from RTO and a retired MS 1 from Car Equipment. My RTO folks are still teasing me about the posters that they call my “ little Lionel’s”. It’s been 15 years of my time on this site and I have some questions for my fellow posters. The questions came in regards to some posts in different threads but I was asked to consolidate them. 1- What is the most important thing down to the least important thing in train operations ? We were taught that the plant was the most important thing. The plant is track, third rail power, signal system, and switches. The least important component is the equipment. In other words R9-R11 so this obsession with car types is really silly, in our opinion. 2- Two of us had the same motor instructor in our conductor’s class and he taught my motorman class as well. He was a Marine Corps drill instructor before coming to Transit. He emphasized that he saw a decline in general intelligence over the years. To him it didn’t matter where we came from or what race we were. He was fair and tolerant to a certain point. He tried to distinguish between ignorant questions and flat out stupid ones. My friends say that’s why the school car instructors started assigning students to me for road instruction. I never asked for them but a friend who was a school car instructor and later a Superintendent told me when I told him that I was going to retire. He was there when the motor instructor told our conductor class that we were going to be doing extra work. He pointed out to us that trains had been running for years with no announcements from the conductor. Most of my youth was spent on that equipment so I understood what he meant. The next thing he said to us about the conductor position was both sad and funny. He said that the general public would find excuses for trains with no announcements and that eventually the conductor would have to walk people to their front doors. 😂 Heck the trains weren’t even air conditioned back then. B 3- Someone pointed out to me that they’ve seen some particularly bad rerouting proposals and after reading them I wonder if the people who come up with these ideas even ride the system or look at Google Maps or something similar and then post these ideas. The one that was pointed out to me was a proposal to run the to the Bronx and have it run up Third Avenue. As my friend pointed out that is grounds for an immediate drug test if any RTO employees suggested that. Heading n/b Third Avenue, the street, is about 4 car lengths from the 10 car marker IIRC. There used to be an underpass to cross under the s/b track and it led to the street exit and the Third Avenue El. I know that for a fact because I was a provisional Railroad Porter back in’ 68 and cleaned that station a few times before the underpass was sealed up. 3- what my contemporaries have noticed is that people are blaming delays and such on the R46 and the R60 class of cars. We look at the website and see delays caused by vandalism, disruptive people, switch or signal problems, brakes activated or the occasional “ network communications issues. Seems like some people want to get rid of the older equipment not realizing that the new equipment will probably have the same problems. Meanwhile my colleagues are waiting for all the new equipment to get here. They want to know if Central or Prospect Parks are being eyed for new storage facilities and maintenance barns. Don’t take my posts as pro or anti positions but as questions I’ve been asked. Be safe and carry on. Before I leave my friends and I would like to thank RTOMan and Kamen Rider for their updates.

Correct. Right after 9/11 the line ran ten car trains as New Lots to Van Cortlandt Park , iirc.

Think about what you just said. I think one would have to be pretty stupid to ride the to downtown Brooklyn to backtrack for service to Brighton. The present day shuttle is/was the Brighton line. When it was severed from the Fulton St. El it was single tracked into the revised terminal. In my youth the trains ran from Franklin Avenue to Brighton or Coney Island from the single-tracked terminal on some weekends. My opinion.

Why do you think that the headways are long ? They are the same as they were decades ago. When the trains were running to Coney Island. My home station from 1961 was Prospect Park. The transfers between Prospect Park and Fulton Street are still the same and the IRT transfer is now free. As far as reliability goes it runs 24/7, and doesn’t have bridge openings compared to the other two shuttle lines. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. My take. Carry on.

Seems to me that everyone posting about the line equipment, or any equipment, should realize that the cars are connected by link bars. The bars replaced the original couplers. They can be removed by CED at any time. There’s nothing permanent about the link bars so they can reconfigure the consists of the trains any time they want. Link bars are semi permanent. Carry on.