Trainmaster5

You could be right about your suspicion but operationally it seems to make more sense to use the Elmont option compared to the time wasting racetrack option. Hockey games and concerts are less intrusive than the roundabout option, IMO. My take. Carry on.

I think you’re somewhat mistaken about the amount of incline that the train traverses from Atlantic Terminal into Nostrand Avenue eastbound. I remember an elementary school teacher telling us to stand at the overpass at Bedford Avenue and look toward Nostrand Avenue and the station. The fact is that the street, Atlantic Avenue, dips downward as it approaches the intersection with Nostrand . The illusion is that the incline is steeper than it appears because the overpass at Bedford is at almost the same level as the platforms at the station. It’s more noticeable if you’re driving or walking from Bedford to the East. Something we were taught 65+ years ago when Grandma and her schoolteacher next door neighbor would walk us to the post office on Atlantic Avenue 😀. We were being taught something new daily even in the summer time. Carry on.

To put it in simple terms the access to the Arena and the track itself is easier for the railroad from Elmont Station compared with the routing to/from the racetrack to the mainline. With the exception of feed delivery to the racetrack it’s easier and more efficient railroad wise to use the mainline vs tying it up for the occasional move. My take on the situation. Carry on.

You probably will get better answers if you post this in the Transit Employment section. Either way good luck 👍🏾

The elevated lines were demolished because of structural issues and the promise of subway replacements. No one back then wanted elevated trains to be replaced by the same things. Even when they thought about rail lines along Utica Avenue in Brooklyn, IRT or IND, the idea was to build subway, not elevated. The City of New York definitely didn’t want to build any more elevated lines and neither did the residents. Even when the LIRR replaced its existing Atlantic Avenue tracks east of Pennsylvania Avenue in Brooklyn that trackage was buried underground. The mantra was elevated demolition. Offhand the only new elevated structure I recall is the JFK tracks to the airport. Trackage built over a Federal road, and not blocking homeowner’s views. The City never advocated for it. I think that a rail line along the median of a highway is the only acceptable path for any elevated construction these days. My opinion. You’re free to disagree. Carry on.

I think you’re better off posting this in the Transit Employment section of the forum. You would probably get a response from employees there. Good luck with your problem.

I actually read the posts that I respond to. Re-read my post and you can see what I said about more service. In theory means exactly that. Not one word guarantees that more service will run. Press releases from the agency mean Jack to someone my age who has actually worked for them for 30 years and been a rider for 70+ years. Go back and look at the dates most of the subway threads were created. Maybe you can see what most of them have in common. They reference more than a decade of proposals and compare them to today. We all know that the “ extra service “ argument was overridden by the loading guidelines caveat in the past and I don’t see that changing in the future. If you get a chance go back and read the PR releases since the agency was founded and compare them to today’s system. Perhaps then you’ll understand my point. I am well aware of what is happening on QBL. RTOman keeps us well informed and has done so since the beginning. No argument with you but some of us have a different perspective based on experience. Carry on.

I recently posted on the R211 thread about certain terminology and things and how my contemporaries and I were taught and I got a message that I was confusing some folks. I’m going to try to explain this in simple terms. What I called the “ Bible “ is the division timetable. I’ve been lucky enough to have a rabbi who taught me and others what that means in RTO. I’ve seen many people posting about being delayed at Nostrand Avenue or President Street for minutes almost daily. The reason why it happens is because that’s what the timetable calls for. My instructor went to Operations and Planning after the Trainmaster title was phased out. He wrote schedules, especially for the line. He showed us how every pm rush was handled on the N/B Lex from Borough Hall to Grand Central. Between 4:45 and 5:25 pm x amount of trains were scheduled to head through the corridor. Back then it included trains from Flatbush to Woodlawn and trains to 241 st or Dyre. Trains every 90 seconds or 120 seconds. I left Utica at 5pm to WPR and my follower left 2 minutes later to Dyre. Between Kingston and Nostrand a would cross ahead of me and we would form a caravan up to Grand Central. We were staged and slotted that way by the tower operator at the junction or later on Utica tower took that job. What I’m trying to point out is that the trains were not delayed even though some riders thought they were. S/B at Franklin Avenue was a similar situation. The ATD on duty would tell the tower operator at the junction what trains he had, local or express, their destinations, and either Utica or Flatbush would tell the tower operator what order they wanted the trains to be sent to the terminal. The new ATS system was being used when I retired so it didn’t really matter to me although I did point out many things that didn’t actually make sense to me. Things that a local supervisor could do to override the mistakes that the ATS computer made. I had a job that started at Dyre for years before and after ATS took over and at least twice a week the computer would line me up with an improper lineup when I got south of Franklin at the junction. When you see a train slow down or completely stop there’s usually a good reason for it. Two other things I would point out to you rail fans who are interested in getting a job in RTO. When I was a new C/R school car taught all new students how to read the iron (switches) every day. Terminal Dispatchers taught us how to schedule trains when things got screwed up. It’s not that easy to run a “flex” on a line like the which has numerous terminals and train crews based in different locations and boroughs. Hopefully I haven’t made things more confusing than before. Carry on. We’ve got some current employees on the boards who can correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m glad you pointed that out. What other service is traveling along 6th Avenue to Queens Plaza ? That’s why it’s worded like that.

Did you overlook the obvious and situations concerning the reliability of those lines ? Those two lines were chosen as test beds for the CBTC technology because they were isolated from the rest of the system. It was a test of the new signal, period. A very knowledgeable person recently posted in a thread about CBTC something that we were taught long before CBTC was a thought. As long as a train is moving riders are satisfied. CBTC, with less signals than the older wayside system, gives the impression of speed but the running time between terminals remains basically unchanged. I know that many of my former colleagues stopped posting on the forums because they were reading things that were not true or being inaccurate. I’ve personally given up on postings about the junction between lines on the IRT in Brooklyn. My coworkers realize that the average rider or rail fan has absolutely no idea what the timetable, aka “ the Bible “, means or calls for and those that do have stopped being active . They also see the widespread misconception that CBTC means more service running. In theory that’s possible but the never promised that. We were told that in our refresher courses even before the CBTC test launched. We all hope that the rollout is successful in both divisions because the signal system is the most important component of RTO, not NTT, and is obsolete. BTW a train is only late after five minutes of the scheduled arrival time. My opinion. YMMV. Carry on

What did the last document say about the SAS ? I've been reading the PR from the agency since it's founding and I take it all with a grain of salt. Color me cynical but experience is a good teacher. My take. Carry on

I should have specified that I was focusing on accidents in particular. The criminal element is something else altogether. One thing my generation was TAUGHT was that you kept your back against a wall or a column. Now with the explosion of EDPs throughout the city one must be extra vigilant wherever you are. Just trying to clarify my point. Carry on.

That someone either exaggerated or flat out lied. There’s more criminal activity on the system now resulting in injuries or death than ever. I’m not even including the suicidal ones that usually happen over the holidays between Thanksgiving and New Years. My experience with the system over 60 years as a rider of the system even before the Redbirds came on the scene. The difference is that the NTT usually prevents the T/O and the C/R from getting the indication to proceed. When those cars arrived on the line the school kids would use their feet to delay a train at St. Lawrence for 3-5 minutes daily around 3 pm. Even with the older SMEE cars dragging was a rare occurrence. Like I said “ my experience and recollection “. Carry on.

Although the equipment nowadays is different I remember riding trains as a passenger and as an employee late nights and midnights. An NYPD officer would enter the at 241st St and ride down to Times Square and disembark. Another officer would enter the train there and ride the train S/B to New Lots or later to Flatbush. There was never an announcement about police patrols onboard . What exactly is the purpose of this practice? Personally, I think it it's a PR stunt. Why alert the potential perps ? What am I missing here ? Someone please enlighten me. Carry on.

Meanwhile if it takes you 2 hours to get home and 2 hours to get back to work half of your rest period is gone. Let that sink in.

We had the Triplexes on the Brighton line, especially during the weekdays, until we started getting the R32 equipment on the line. BMT Standards on the local back then in my youth. I was told in school car way back early 80’s that single car consists were preferable. If you have a bad car on a Triplex or a NTT it means either 3,4, or 5 cars must be substituted but single car replacement is much easier to do. My teaching back then. Carry on.

I’m more interested in the R68/68A equipment at the moment. What are the latest plans for these cars ? I read a report on the and the Grand Central Madison delays and the cost overruns incurred by the agency and thought about the situation in the subway system. New equipment is on the way but I don’t think that it’s a guarantee that the option orders will even be fully funded. Unless the picks up the full tab for the option. The money people at the FTA seem ready to kick the agency to the curb while congressional investigations open. Does anyone think that the agency is going to tell the Feds that they are dumping equipment while asking for financial help for new car purchases ? The decades long financial mismanagement is going to bite the in the keister. Meanwhile the BMT isn’t fully CBTC compliant and probably won’t be, if ever. What about the SIR ? Too many questions about this situation. One thing I can say is that many people seem to be gobbling up the PR from the agency without looking at the history. 20+ years ago some people in the know told my coworkers that the was going to blind the public with BS. Looks like they were right, IMO. Carry on.

That’s why I had the same C/R for 14 years and the previous one for 6 years. We were a team, a crew. Carry on.

I have pointed out that they are piss poor money managers. The LIRR was a bankrupt commuter railroad after the Pennsylvania cut them loose. The state had to fund it so the Long Island residents who commuted weren’t stranded. The city took over the Rockaway Beach branch of the railroad so those people weren’t stranded. That’s why they connected that part to the subway system . The is solely a manager for the component parts including the TBTA. When the state and the city started cutting back on their contributions the fares were increased to cover some of the costs of the operations, not all, and that’s why the bond holders, not the governments, control the MTA economic situation. The Federal government has a national pool which contributes to country wide transportation projects, not just the but commuter systems across the country. This includes Amtrak. If the Congress changes the majority party then the folks with their hands out like the can be cut off completely. It’s not mandated that this is a Federal responsibility. The Metropolitan area has never fully paid for it’s transit system since the Pennsylvania, NY Central, and the New Haven left the market. The ridership doesn’t pay the full costs even today so every procurement or service increase or new construction costs will be decided by the bond holders in the long run. I’ve walked around Livonia yard back in the mid eighties and saw that some cars were purchased by the Port Authority . Ditch the and any replacement agency will still be subject to the same conditions. I have intentionally mixed capital costs and operating expenses together because it seems, to me at least, that some people have no idea how this whole system is funded. My opinion. Carry on.

Let me ask the last few posters if they know what the really is ? I realize that these posts are in the subway forums but maybe we should take a step back and look at the structure of the agency and it’s reason for existing in the first place. LIRR and MNRR are also the core groups. NYCT and SIRT are later additions to the party as was the departed LIB. I think that many posters don’t realize that GC Madison aka ESA and the LIRR third track project are also funded by the agency. R211, M9 rail cars, proposed new subway cars, the NYC local and express bus system are also recipients of the money pot of limited extra Federal funding . I agree that is a piss poor money manager but subway car procurement is not the only thing that’s on the plate. Full CBTC rollout and the SAS are still on the agenda. Meanwhile all I have seen is subway cars mentioned. Open your eyes sometime. There are even forums on this site that can enlighten us if we open our eyes. My rant. Carry on.

Let me ask a general question if I may ? It’s not directed to any one poster so please don’t be afraid to respond to it. You, correctly, point to the limitations of the existing subway yard capacity. I’ve seen the situation ignored or glossed over for more than a decade. I think Kareem Abdul Jabbar is correct about the educational system. Reading comprehension is fundamental. Perhaps the poster who criticized the Mosholu / Concourse dynamics should have figured out why some trains are laid up in the Concourse yard. There are other sites that go into detail about the subway system in some detail. Same thing with the idea of fleet expansion. There’s not enough room in many places which is why trains are laid up on mainline tracks like Queens Blvd. Unless they run the extra new equipment 24/7 with little or no riders where are they going to store the cars ? Think about the extra mileage, maintenance, and employee salary this would entail. Is anyone advocating a return to the graffiti days ? I personally , have laid up IRT cars on the VC line from the bridge up to 231 st, on the line at Gun Hill lower on the 3rd Avenue station platforms, line from Pelham Parkway to Bronx Park East, and the line from Pelham Parkway to south of Morris Park before the Unionport yard was built. Before the NTT arrived.I’m guessing that the situation is similar in the B division. I think that fleet expansion isn’t well thought out by many people on the forums. I would love to see what Car Equipment has projected for the future. I’d also love to see what some posters have in mind for the future of the R68 class equipment. Just curious. My opinion. Carry on.

You're looking at the picture correctly. Directly north of the visible section of the N/B platform (is/was) a diamond crossover switch that led directly to the Lenox Yard and barn. The barn was demolished so trains entered the yard and turned westward to enter the layup tracks. When the 148th St station was opened in 1968 track 1 became the S/B track, tracks 2 and 3 are now covered by the platform and track 4 is the N/B platform in the station. If the N/B platform at 145th St were extended southward it would be close to the 142ndSt junction and the connection with the s/b tracks and the abandoned tower at the split. I'm sure there'd have to be some signal work at that location to avoid locking out trains in the under-river tunnel. Gotta remember that when this section was built they were only running 5 car trains. That's why the s/b platform at 145th Street was never extended to the south. My recollections. BTW that abandoned tower used to be visible to the M/M heading northbound on the or or folks camped out at the railfan window. It was just a small triangular cutout in the wall where the n/b crossed the s/b tracks. IIRC the setup never changed because of the signal blocks layout in that area. Hope I haven't confused anyone. Carry on.

Consider that part of the learning experience. As long as you followed school car instructions you’ll be fine.

In my 30 years in RTO I have never come across that situation. The emphasis was on usable door panels. I remember being a C/R on the line where a Motor Instructor had me isolate my operating car because the end door panel glass on the other end of my car was missing. I went from Lenox to Flatbush Avenue in an air conditioned car alone with my offside position having the mate of the A/C married pair. 2 air conditioned cars on a 9 car consist was considered hitting the jackpot back then. As for your take on the completely isolated car I see your point but I came into 14st- Union Square with my southbound on pm rush and the passengers looked lost and confused even when the gap fillers extended to my isolated M/M’s car . Rule was that I couldn’t turn off the lights in my car. I basically had to open my cab window and tell the people to move back to the other cars. My memories 😃. Be safe. Carry on.

It's quite simple if you think about it. Each entry point on an IRT car has 2 door leafs, meaning six per side. Six separate door motors. If there's a problem with 1 door leaf you'd only cut out that individual door panel. That still leaves a (1/2) entry /exit point available. The systems you have described, with mechanically linked panels mean increased dwell times as passengers scramble to find an available entry point because that whole entry point is disabled. Remember that NYCT runs 51', 60', and 75' subway cars with 6 (IRT) or 8 door openings per car. Commuter railroads like LIRR or MNRR have different procedures in place, IIRC. Hope this answers your query. Carry on.