MHV9218

^ Never knew that existed, very nifty. Saw 6691 deadheading along the M21 route yesterday evening, still MV stickers but I'll watch if that turns up a Quill bus.

In his defense, I get a kick out of seeing 3Gs running the Manhattan routes. Kinda shows you what the fleet would've looked like if OBI hadn't gone under.

Well, the MTA's lawyers will have to prove that: 1) the cleaning can't be accomplished if there are people anywhere the system 2) the cleaning is really making a difference 3) people couldn't be in the system at other stops/stations beyond the terminals during the cleaning period. Given that the trains are still running and the cleaning only occurs at terminals, that might be tricky to prove.

Well, there's a decent legal argument that a public utility – specifically one that you nominally pay to enter – should not curtail service just to exclude a certain group of people. I haven't read the full suit, but generally the legal standard for these sorts of things is called 'arbitrary and capricious.' You have to prove that a decision was made arbitrarily and capriciously. So if I shut down the subway because a storm is coming, that's clearly for good reason with safety involved. But if I keep the trains running but announce that, say, @Via Garibaldi 8 is banned from riding them, unless I can come up with a very specific reason for his exclusions that would be arbitrary and capricious. Obviously my lawyers and I will spend a few sleepless nights on this, but I'll probably lose in court, and VG8 will be allowed to take the subway should he wish. Luckily, he prefers the express bus. The question here is, since the MTA is not actually shutting down – trains are running at their normal schedule, just without passengers – and this shutdown is really designed to keep certain passengers out of the system, is that decision justified by public safety and health requirements (a high standard: you'd have to prove the homeless were a source of crime, for example, which is pretty broad strokes, given that some homeless people act badly and many do not) or is it arbitrary and capricious? This is a decision the MTA might lose, because our society is pretty much designed around the principle that you can't refuse or deny service to paying customers. Not that this will really matter, since the system will reopen anyway.

Quill did keep the XE60s out today for reasons as we've mentioned, we'll have to see if they keep them in a real snowstorm and how they do.

Adding a few more photos to this thread, showing the 1981/1982 batch of enamel signs as well as some of the 70s ones: I think those are stickers for the and (AA), but I'm not positive. This is from 14th, and that's one of the oldest styles of side entrance signs. 1983, John Abbott photo. 1985, Matt Weber photo. Those may (or may not) be stickers for the and (AA). 1984, Peter Allan Monroe photo If that date is right, interesting, because the was still running 1984, and the wouldn't start until 1985. Might be proof. 1988, Richard Serviss photo. This would be after they removed the stickers, though no idea why the is so crooked. Below are the short-lived 'half-and-half' signs from the 1970s: 1977, Edward Gillon photo 1981, Richard Greene photo Mid-1970s, photographer unknown.

Today is a Saturday schedule anyway, so it's not quite as difficult to pull artics off the road. I would imagine things are pretty tight at MV and OH, covering the full 15/101/102/103, but they seem to be managing.

Yeah, I'm starting to guess that was it. Especially since the portion always seems be a sticker. Like this one Union Tpke posted: Decent odds that underneath it's a and they just took the sticker off later on. No idea why the is also a sticker, but whatever. Of course by 1989 this whole thing would be very out of date, but that's the TA for you. Same story with this enamel sign that's been for sale (overpriced) on eBay for years and years: Part of the reason I'm guessing this is that I know the TA's big station modernization/sign replacement project began in earnest about 1981/1982, and the enamel signs had to be done by an outside contractor. I could see them knocking out the whole order from '81-'83 or so with signs planned for the single letters that would be implemented in the 1980s. As @Lance has said, the TA often ordered signs for services that were not yet implemented (the B-division rolls of 1983/1984 had no double letters). I've seen lots of the enamel signs with the and but never one with the . Starting to think they were all printed with or and that was it.

Plato would be bummed out if the focus of his studies were the MTA. I think Socrates said the unexamined life was not worth living. Maybe that was a recommendation that we spend all our time poring over RFPs and MTA Board meeting transcriptions.

Definitely not, but we can definitely evaluate what's a better use of city and MTA funding. That's why I bring it up. Originally the cleaners were FEMA funded. I believe that's dried up – Trump admin cut the funding. If we're spending a dime on these useless wipe-downs that could otherwise be directed towards keeping the subways safe, that is a huge mistake. Agree that the Transit Police merger was foolish on a number of levels.

Yeah, it's gonna be down for sure. I forget the estimate the MTA consultants had, but I think they had something like 60-70% by summer/fall and 80-90% by spring of next year. Almost nobody thinks we'll see 100% of ridership guidelines within the next couple years because of exactly the hybrid you're mentioning. Having said that, even 40% ridership would make things safer, and specifically having more people on the trains at night. Once restaurants and clubs are open past 11, that will change things. And hopefully this stupid shutdown goes away too. At the time being, people are purposely avoiding the trains any time after 11-12 to avoid being stuck missing the last connection. That makes them especially empty and dangerous.

Not sure, I don't see why it would get worse than it currently is. People are slowly getting vaccinated and things are slowly (for better or for worse) reopening. We now have restaurants open indoors, and serving until 11pm. The MTA is taking a ton of heat (rightfully) for the subway shutdowns. And the weather is passing its absolute coldest. All of these factors suggest to me more people will be on the street, which is a good thing from a safety perspective. I don't think we'll be back to anything like 'normal' until the summer, but these freezing, empty months with restaurants and the subway closing early may be the worst of it.

Daily News now saying this was a serial event linked to two other stabbings along the A line in Washington Heights. This stuff is bad, bad news. They need to cut the bullshit on the performative cleanings and actually worry about keeping these trains safe at night. Some poor guy got stabbed out of the blue at 8pm at Christopher St. on the 1 last week, just waiting for a train with his girlfriend on the way back to Corona. Girl I know came in from out of town last weekend, we got outdoor drinks and walked around. I brought her to the train around 11 or so, and for the first time in my life, I really thought to myself maybe I shouldn't be letting her take the train alone, pretty girl, out-of-towner, given how empty they are this late at night. She was fine of course but I don't like having to think that way. I think this is gonna stop being an issue once covid lightens up and people are traveling regularly again, but this is not a good situation for the time being.

This link has been passed around a bit, thought I'd share it here for you guys. Pretty interesting to take a look, even if the TA doesn't really follow all of these rules: https://new.mta.info/document/19381?fbclid=IwAR3wyhNs2FQmV4E_evRP0l4O7TGO4MxoyRnFAHRh7PDxsTxn4Y2csN-IzN4 This is since out of date – they use a heavier Helvetica now, but there a number of these signs all of over from the late-90s through 2000s. Compare to the original: https://standardsmanual.com/pages/original-nycta

No good deed goes unpunished lmao... 😂

Gotcha, good looks...just tryna avoid the RBO equivalent of "stolen valor," lmao...

Oh my fault, that's all @SevenEleven, I was just giving him credit where it's due...all that craziness to go through. Not the easiest borough to come up in DOB either.

One difference is that 14th on the 7th Ave. extends South, whereas 14th on the Lex extends North. So 18th got closed there, since the 16th St. exit at Union Square was barely two blocks away from the station and even closer if they had extended platforms to 10 cars. But on the 7th Ave. the station runs down to 12th St., the other direction. At 96th on the 7th Ave., station goes south, so it was too close to the 91st St. stop.

* added for the <QB> in 1979 that should say, and *post-1979, not 179 later. Wondering now, separately, if the TA may have actually installed signs with the while the was still running, and simply used paste-on stickers to cover that for the meantime. We know the main enamel white-on-black signs turned up beginning around 1983, so it's possible they installed those before the services had changed.

Saw an op with an XD40 (I'll leave the route/depot out lol) completely destroy the chains the other day after pushing that rule...wouldn't have wanted to explain that road call to the dispatcher... Seems like ~30 is the absolute max, 25 is pushing it, and 20 is what keeps the TA happy.

Nice shot from ~1983 of a mix of 60s Vignelli and 70s hybrid-Vignelli signs at Canal Street from the Museum of the City of NY. Here's what we're looking at, as best I can tell. Back wall: original porcelain enamel signs from ~1968 for the and . Black paste-on stickers have been added for the <QB> in 1969. Below are original porcelain signs for the and (QJ). Those have been updated with stickers to show the and . Hanging from the ceiling: 1970s 'hybrid' Vignelli signs made of sheet metal. On these the arrow sections and text sections are white-on-black, and the bullets modules are white. This is the style the TA used for most of its signs from something like 1973-1978. Here all of the bullets have been covered over except for the , which is still the same color scheme post-179. These were made by the sign shop and they're a little sloppier than the 1960s signs, which were either produced by Unimark contractors or done professionally via photographic enlargement under Unimark supervision. On the side I can't really make out what those signs are – looks like signs that have been ruined by acid/graffiti or covered over.

Kind of a bullshit headline imo – no shocker from Clayton Guse. What's "permanent" mean, anyway? Throughout covid? Until demand returns? Subway ridership is still in the toilet. It's not some great offense that they're still running diminished service. Talk to me when everybody's got the vaccine and people are commuting again. The estimates I read suggest we're not gonna see even 80-90% of ridership until six or so months from now. Look at a line like this: "But unlike earlier reduced schedules, the new schedules for the C and F lines aren’t being justified by a major emergency." Like, damn, Clayton, do I have to spell it out for you? What do you think is going on right now? How many people do you see wearing a mask on the street, and when's the last time you ate inside a diner? Unless the MTA waves a flag and says "this is because of covid," you don't get it? Look around the subway and tell me if ridership warrants peak 2019-2020 service guidelines. Sometimes I wonder if he's actually this dumb, or if his bosses just insist on articles that make him seem like it.

Thanks for this post, makes a lot of sense. I was hearing that the cold weather range was a big issue on the MTA fleet – I think Cipriano even on spoke on it recently. Obviously we've seen trouble with the hybrids in frigid weather, but this sounded like an issue below 45º even, which is a lot of the year here. Something like what Tesla owners been describing for years. Proterra seems to have a head start and they're part of a merger that's about to IPO in the coming months, and that will probably mean a new injection of money that lets them expand their marketshare. BYD seems like the other player, but I don't see US agencies buying from a Chinese state-run company, especially with the bad performance in some cities so far. They're taking off in Latin America where the politics and weather are different, but not so much here. That company in California doing the retrofits (I remember we had the New Flyer demo a few years back) seems to have dropped off as well. With the federal order that the whole gov't fleet will be going electric, that's big news for Workhorse, Proterra, and every company that has their act together on a competent EV product.

Yeah, it is funny lesson, isn't it – you set up the Twitter MTA team to promote 'transparency' from the MTA, but wait, shit, no, not that much transparency. The minute I saw that post, I knew they were gonna be in for it. Happens that they were just telling the truth, but in today's climate, especially around the PC-olympics when it comes to homelessness – 'people experiencing homelessness,' 'unhoused,' 'not currently housed' – that Tweet was doomed,