Punchboxes

[Rutgers Tube]

Are T/O punchboxes entirely a B-Division item, or are there any on the former IRT? I've never really noticed any on A-Division lines, but I also haven't really looked. Can someone please provide an accurate answer? Thanks.

[mark1447]

All of em are on each line. And Yes IRT has am, go to 149th and Concourse, Manhttan bound u will see it. Or even 96th Street on Bronx bound platform

[R44 5278]

I've seen it at the South Ferry loop, but is that also the control for the gap fillers?

[mark1447]

I've seen it at the South Ferry loop, but is that also the control for the gap fillers?

 

Yes there is also Gap Fillers too, go to 14th St USQ on Brooklyn Bound Platform and there is one.

[LRG]

There's one at the N/B side of President Street for the (2)/(5) and at Franklin Avenue S/B as well.

[Maserati7200]

Dekalb Avenue, Queensboro Plaza, Canal Street (), Court Street, and a lot more have them. That's just off the top of my head.

[Rutgers Tube]

Yes there is also Gap Fillers too, go to 14th St USQ on Brooklyn Bound Platform and there is one.

 

There isn't a punchbox for the fillers, is there? I thought those were automatic based on a sensor, and having the train stopped outside of the small range cause the fillers to not extend.

 

There were questions about the punchboxes in the T/O manual, and if I remember correctly, the purpose of those is to speed up service. Is this really true?

[nel070]

there is a punchbox at van wyck-briarwood on the and lines too u can see the motormen using to set the line up

[mark1447]

There isn't a punchbox for the fillers, is there? I thought those were automatic based on a sensor, and having the train stopped outside of the small range cause the fillers to not extend.

 

There were questions about the punchboxes in the T/O manual, and if I remember correctly, the purpose of those is to speed up service. Is this really true?

 

Ill have to go bk down there cuz i think u do need a button

 

Plus 42 TSQ has it of course

 

__________

BTW to Staff: since this topic is going letters now, it needs to be moved to General Subway Forum, as this is NOT only IRT Div but IND/BMT Div

[Rutgers Tube]

Ill have to go bk down there cuz i think u do need a button

 

Plus 42 TSQ has it of course

 

__________

BTW to Staff: since this topic is going letters now, it needs to be moved to General Subway Forum, as this is NOT only IRT Div but IND/BMT Div

 

Yeah, I noticed how the B Division found its way into this thread, and that wasn't really my question.

 

And here is the answer to our question, courtesy of http://www.stationreporter.net:

 

"Lexington Ave IRT (Union Square East and East 14th Street) Opened 10/27/1904 4 tracks on 2 island platforms, both platforms are curved. The cure is offset by gap fillers that are triggered by sensors near the station when the train comes to a full stop. There is a red LED display by the C/R position to let him/her know the doors can open. Also, a timer signal is set to red until the gap fillers are pushed back and the train can proceed. There are also sealed platforms against the walls on both local tracks, the northbound 'wall' platform is used for utility storage by station cleaners and other personnel while the S/B side remains sealed. The platforms were extended in the 1950’s; the N/B side was extended at the south end, while the S/B side was extended to the north end. The station was nearest to the site of the transit systems 2nd worst accident, otherwise called the 1991 Union Square accident."

 

There you have it.

[R44 5278]

Thank you!

[mark1447]

Yeah, I noticed how the B Division found its way into this thread, and that wasn't really my question.

 

And here is the answer to our question, courtesy of http://www.stationreporter.net:

 

"Lexington Ave IRT (Union Square East and East 14th Street) Opened 10/27/1904 4 tracks on 2 island platforms, both platforms are curved. The cure is offset by gap fillers that are triggered by sensors near the station when the train comes to a full stop. There is a red LED display by the C/R position to let him/her know the doors can open. Also, a timer signal is set to red until the gap fillers are pushed back and the train can proceed. There are also sealed platforms against the walls on both local tracks, the northbound 'wall' platform is used for utility storage by station cleaners and other personnel while the S/B side remains sealed. The platforms were extended in the 1950’s; the N/B side was extended at the south end, while the S/B side was extended to the north end. The station was nearest to the site of the transit systems 2nd worst accident, otherwise called the 1991 Union Square accident."

 

There you have it.

 

good to know, so when the train moves slow does this mean it will set the gab fillers back to the platform?

[Rutgers Tube]

good to know, so when the train moves slow does this mean it will set the gab fillers back to the platform?

 

I think so. Ride a 142A, especially on the local track. The train will take minimal power, coast for a few feet and sound like a baby who is just wrapping up a crying spell, and then after about three seconds, the train will again accelerate. This time, it'll take full power. If you can see out the car window through the door, you'll see the Gap Filler signal turn colors. I believe I've also noticed the color change by looking out the windows on the local station side of the train and seeing the reflection in the tunnel.

 

But now I'm curious as to how to the fillers know when to retract. Is that manual request in the tower or by a station agent, does the Conductor control that?

[SubwayGuy]

I think so. Ride a 142A, especially on the local track. The train will take minimal power, coast for a few feet and sound like a baby who is just wrapping up a crying spell, and then after about three seconds, the train will again accelerate. This time, it'll take full power. If you can see out the car window through the door, you'll see the Gap Filler signal turn colors. I believe I've also noticed the color change by looking out the windows on the local station side of the train and seeing the reflection in the tunnel.

 

But now I'm curious as to how to the fillers know when to retract. Is that manual request in the tower or by a station agent, does the Conductor control that?

 

Automatic, a sensor detects train movement and pulls them back in

[Trainmaster5]

If the OP means those boxes in stations with buttons and lights they are "route request" signals. They are located throught the system in stations and interlocking signal areas. The T/O will activate a button which tells the local tower that he's a Brighton train at Dekalb Ave or a Lexington Ave train at the lower level of 149th St Grand Concourse for example. The tower operator will then set the switch for that line-up. If the tower operator is expecting another train and the punch doesn't correspond the tower operator will question the train operator as to his call letters and/or destination so as not to give a wrong line-up. With the advent of the ATS system in the IRT many of the towers have been shut down so the ATS system will line up the switches properly (in theory) and the punch, although activated, has no bearing on what line-up you get. The later posters have gone off in another direction while referring to gap filler signals which have nothing to do with route establishment.

[mark1447]

Automatic, a sensor detects train movement and pulls them back in

 

but wat if the train was not in service, and it has to stop at 14th street since there was a train that left, does the gab fillers pull up to the train?

[Alex L.]

Trains that are not in service are not supposed to eneter a station unless they can pull all the way through and clear the platform without stopping.

[Rutgers Tube]

If the OP means those boxes in stations with buttons and lights they are "route request" signals. They are located throught the system in stations and interlocking signal areas. The T/O will activate a button which tells the local tower that he's a Brighton train at Dekalb Ave or a Lexington Ave train at the lower level of 149th St Grand Concourse for example. The tower operator will then set the switch for that line-up. If the tower operator is expecting another train and the punch doesn't correspond the tower operator will question the train operator as to his call letters and/or destination so as not to give a wrong line-up. With the advent of the ATS system in the IRT many of the towers have been shut down so the ATS system will line up the switches properly (in theory) and the punch, although activated, has no bearing on what line-up you get. The later posters have gone off in another direction while referring to gap filler signals which have nothing to do with route establishment.

 

 

Thanks.

 

I apologize for my participation in that; I got carried away with the whole gap fillers conversation myself. But going back to the original topic (and this may have already been answered in another thread)...

 

If someone horsing around on a platform requests a route prior to a train entering a station with a punchbox, will a signal already be set for the operator, or will he/she arrive to a bottom-red homeball and have to re-request a route? Have any of the T/O's here actually heard of stories where an operator accepted an incorrect line-up and inadvertently brought a train up the wrong route (i.e., to Manhattan via Dekalb Avenue and the Montague Street tunnel when it should have run via the bridge)? I would imagine that'd be a bad mistake to make for both the train and tower operators to let occur.

[LRG]

Thanks.

 

I apologize for my participation in that; I got carried away with the whole gap fillers conversation myself. But going back to the original topic (and this may have already been answered in another thread)...

 

If someone horsing around on a platform requests a route prior to a train entering a station with a punchbox, will a signal already be set for the operator, or will he/she arrive to a bottom-red homeball and have to re-request a route? Have any of the T/O's here actually heard of stories where an operator accepted an incorrect line-up and inadvertently brought a train up the wrong route (i.e., to Manhattan via Dekalb Avenue and the Montague Street tunnel when it should have run via the bridge)? I would imagine that'd be a bad mistake to make for both the train and tower operators to let occur.

 

I've never heard of that but it's a possibility. That's why if you don't know what you're doing, DON'T do it! Of course I've messed with the punchboxes plenty of times but I wouldn't dare sabotage the T/Os route. I just punch for the correct lineup.

[Y2Julio]

I've never heard of that but it's a possibility. That's why if you don't know what you're doing, DON'T do it! Of course I've messed with the punchboxes plenty of times but I wouldn't dare sabotage the T/Os route. I just punch for the correct lineup.

oh boy. This is why rail fans have a bad reputation amongst MTA employees. Playing around with rollsigns is one thing but playing with essential equipment is a no-no and at your age I would expect better especially since your brother is an MTA employee.

[Y2Julio]

Thanks.

 

I apologize for my participation in that; I got carried away with the whole gap fillers conversation myself. But going back to the original topic (and this may have already been answered in another thread)...

 

If someone horsing around on a platform requests a route prior to a train entering a station with a punchbox, will a signal already be set for the operator, or will he/she arrive to a bottom-red homeball and have to re-request a route? Have any of the T/O's here actually heard of stories where an operator accepted an incorrect line-up and inadvertently brought a train up the wrong route (i.e., to Manhattan via Dekalb Avenue and the Montague Street tunnel when it should have run via the bridge)? I would imagine that'd be a bad mistake to make for both the train and tower operators to let occur.

It's the T/Os job to verify that they have the correct lineup.

[Urbanfortitude]

I've never heard of that but it's a possibility. That's why if you don't know what you're doing, DON'T do it! Of course I've messed with the punchboxes plenty of times but I wouldn't dare sabotage the T/Os route. I just punch for the correct lineup.

 

guess i know who im coming after if my train gets sent down the wrong route huh...

[INDman]

Trains that are not in service are not supposed to eneter a station unless they can pull all the way through and clear the platform without stopping.

 

So what does the T/O of a light train do when emtering a station where you need to punch such as 47-50th on the ( since you can't radio the tower since there is no one there?

[SubwayGuy]

oh boy. This is why rail fans have a bad reputation amongst MTA employees. Playing around with rollsigns is one thing but playing with essential equipment is a no-no and at your age I would expect better especially since your brother is an MTA employee.

 

IAWTP. When I'm down there, If I see someone playing with something like that, I'm banging it into control. There is NO Excuse for needing to play with a punchbox, even if you are setting the correct lineup, you are not helping at all, you are violating system rules and actually getting in the way

[Trainmaster5]

So what does the T/O of a light train do when emtering a station where you need to punch such as 47-50th on the ((D) since you can't radio the tower since there is no one there?

 

I'm not familiar with that exact location, (maybe Alex L can help), but remember the tower does not have to be at that particular location to have control of that interlocking. The tower may be at 59th St-Columbus Circle or 34th St-6th Ave for example. I know that 149th St-Grand Concourse tower ( Mott ) used to control the switches at 138th St-3rd Ave on the Pelham line years ago. They could hear you on the radio but never actually eyeball the train itself.