1K layoffs on track to save MTA $50M

[SubwayGuy]

Why does any public-sector employee deserve a pay raise when others, including the taxpayers who pay their salaries, are losing theirs? Perhaps if everyone took a small cut then layoffs could be minimized and fares kept where they are.

 

Perhaps they need to do as I've said all along and tax the really wealthy since they are the only ones who can afford it and use that money to plug gaps instead of cutting services that benefit the middle and working class, and layin off middle and working class people which just furthers the downward spiral. Then EVERYONE from individuals to businesses to governments needs to STOP getting into so much debt, pay as you go, and be responsible, and hell even keep a surplus when times are good so that this "boom or bust" casino and crash mentality can go to hell where it belongs and vital services like transit, fire, law enforcement, and education can maintain dedicated funding and the stupid pork barrel spending can be cut instead (which never is).

[SubwayGuy]

Typical bean counters. If it was up to them, no company or organization would have any employees OTHER than bean counters. To them, you need all managers and no workers to run a company. This is why they are bean counters and not running a company.

 

With a lot of generals and no soldiers, everyone just yells at each other to kill the enemy but no one actually does.

 

With a lot of managers, bean counters, and lawyers...no one runs buses or trains. And where does the revenue come from again? oh yeah...

 

If every lawyer, accountant, and investment banker dropped dead tomorrow...the cost of living would drop by 50% and employment would skyrocket.

[nel070]

Perhaps they need to do as I've said all along and tax the really wealthy since they are the only ones who can afford it and use that money to plug gaps instead of cutting services that benefit the middle and working class, and layin off middle and working class people which just furthers the downward spiral. Then EVERYONE from individuals to businesses to governments needs to STOP getting into so much debt, pay as you go, and be responsible, and hell even keep a surplus when times are good so that this "boom or bust" casino and crash mentality can go to hell where it belongs and vital services like transit, fire, law enforcement, and education can maintain dedicated funding and the stupid pork barrel spending can be cut instead (which never is).

 

Amen brother you are a 100 percent right

[nel070]

The cost of living is not always going up. Have you heard of the cost-of-living index? Social Security recipients did not get an automatic increase this year because there was no increase in the index. My point is that pay increases for public-sector employees cannot be considered automatic, especially when times are bad. I'm in the private sector, and I don't get a raise if my company doesn't turn a profit.

 

Do you suppose the 1,000 MTA folks being laid off would be willing to take home a little less rather than lose their jobs? Would you be willing to take home less so that they could keep their jobs?

 

The people on social security are not working and as a working civil servant we deserve cost of living wage increases in order to take care or our famillies and pay our bills. Reguarding the 1,000 MTA being laid off they will get unemeployment for a year at the max of 405.00 weekly and the MTA will still pay half of their unemployment and your taxes will pay the other half.

[Ridgewoodian]

NOW can we toll the damn bridges?

[cdi919]

the problem with laying us off has greater effects than just our wallets. now you have 1000 employees that wont be spending money in their community and that hurts the local business's, which hurts the recovery of the economy. taxing the rich wont help they will just leave, which a lot of them have already done. they will run to texas or florida where there is no personal income tax.i know i would. also its not the job to provide school pass's to the kids.its the city and DOE's job to get these kids transportation.instead they mismanage money and blame . upstate people pay school tax which covers bus service for their children.

[RTOMan]

"Facts" are funny things. We all tend to see them differently.

 

Then thier point of view is wrong then if you "see" something factual that is right in front of your face and view it as something else..

[Forest Glen]

NOW can we toll the damn bridges?

 

Congestion pricing is not the answer. That only hurts the middle class.

 

I suggest getting rid of waste. The MTA cries poverty yet wastes money on all of these high tech gizmos like countdown clocks. Whenever there's a bidding process the MTA never gets the cheapest contract. The MTA also wastes money when contractors mess up station renovations. I'm sure that if the MTA rectified these problems they'd save hundreds of millions of dollars.

[asidrane]

W*R*O*N*G..

 

Heres a hint for you..

 

THIS "contract" the arbritatior "awarded" us and a Judge order the TA to follow would not have made it past the membership...

 

Stop reading the NY papers and believing them...

 

Regardless of how we got to this situation the facts remain that we are discussing a company that has a huge fiscal deficit. When you reduce service, increase fares and still have a shortfall, all that is left is to reduce head counts.

 

I worked at a company that had its second most profitable year ever. As a result of this they laid off a lot of people. I now have a new job, but make less than I was. This is just the reality of today's world.

[RTOMan]

Regardless of how we got to this situation the facts remain that we are discussing a company that has a huge fiscal deficit. When you reduce service, increase fares and still have a shortfall, all that is left is to reduce head counts.

 

I worked at a company that had its second most profitable year ever. As a result of this they laid off a lot of people. I now have a new job, but make less than I was. This is just the reality of today's world.

 

Good job in deflection....

 

I came from the private sector, been through layoffs im very much aware of "reality" thanks...

 

Enjoy your new job.

[asidrane]

Good job in deflection....

 

I came from the private sector, been through layoffs im very much aware of "reality" thanks...

 

Enjoy your new job.

 

No deflection here. You say you are aware, but your posts seem to lead to a different conclusion.

[RTOMan]

No deflection here. You say you are aware, but your posts seem to lead to a different conclusion.

 

Your opinion of coruse as i said enjoy your new job.

[Zman]

Perhaps these layoffs wouldn't be happening had the union not received a mandatory raise while every other industry in the world has experienced less money and layoffs.

 

We've gone without raises when the TA had its "two sets of books" period. The MTA said it was broke, the union believed them and took no raise for a year, then three weeks later just happened to find an extra $400 million laying under the rug. Union asked to reopen the contract, MTA said no dice. That created a lot of hostility between management and the workers. Now that the MTA wants to reopen the contract since things aren't looking good for them, now it's the union's turn to say no dice.

 

Besides, public sector employees don't get bonuses, nor can a superintendent put someone in for a raise because he/she went beyond the call of duty, or is super reliable. Our raises have to be negotiated, that's just the way it is.

 

The cost of living is not always going up. Have you heard of the cost-of-living index? Social Security recipients did not get an automatic increase this year because there was no increase in the index. My point is that pay increases for public-sector employees cannot be considered automatic, especially when times are bad. I'm in the private sector, and I don't get a raise if my company doesn't turn a profit.

 

Of course the cost of living is going up. I just got a letter saying that my property taxes are going up, the prices at the supermarket where I shop just took a hike upwards, etc. My brother-in-law just got a notice saying that his property taxes for his medium-sized house in Nassau County is going up three grand to $16,000 per year! Those are increases in my book.

 

And we've gone without raises when the MTA showed a profit, as per my post above. Here is an agency, the MTA, which cries poverty, yet finds enough money within the past 60 days for these countdown clocks, and new tv monitors for all of the station booths & crew rooms to tell us about rules that are already posted on the bulletin boards. Now they're talking about station renovations at places that aren't exactly falling apart at the seams. Plus they have so many superintendents and managers performing duplicate tasks at six figures, and WE'RE supposed to take the hit? No way.:mad:

 

Perhaps they need to do as I've said all along and tax the really wealthy since they are the only ones who can afford it and use that money to plug gaps instead of cutting services that benefit the middle and working class, and layin off middle and working class people which just furthers the downward spiral. Then EVERYONE from individuals to businesses to governments needs to STOP getting into so much debt, pay as you go, and be responsible, and hell even keep a surplus when times are good so that this "boom or bust" casino and crash mentality can go to hell where it belongs and vital services like transit, fire, law enforcement, and education can maintain dedicated funding and the stupid pork barrel spending can be cut instead (which never is).

 

If I was wealthy and an exorbitant wealthy tax were to be implemented, I would move to Connecticut, commute in to New York, and instead of New York getting 10% of something, they'll get 100% of nothing. Remember, there's no longer a commuter tax.

If you overtax the wealthy, you'll only push them out to greener pastures. That's what happens with overly liberal governments.

 

NOW can we toll the damn bridges?

 

Spoken like someone who doesn't own a car. Why don't we just double the subway fare and see how you like it?

 

I worked at a company that had its second most profitable year ever. As a result of this they laid off a lot of people. I now have a new job, but make less than I was. This is just the reality of today's world.

 

Are you're saying that instead of using that profit to help through the lean times that they laid off people in order to keep profits elevated?

[RTOMan]

Zman you are on a ROLL brother!

[asidrane]

Are you're saying that instead of using that profit to help through the lean time that they laid off people in order to to keep profits elevated?

 

I can't really speak as to what they did or why they did it, but I do know in 08 the company was quite profitable.

 

I understand union rules and collective bargaining. In a lot of ways it helps, but it also is a hindrance (like you said not being able to give merit based raises, etc...)

 

Clearly laying off workers is the last step, but at some point the operating hole becomes too large and everything falls through.

[RTOMan]

Now that the MTA wants to reopen the contract since things aren't looking good for them, now it's the union's turn to say no dice.

 

When they wasted money and dragged the ruling into court now with the proposed layoffs of S/A i knew this was coming but the main thing is...

 

Four Letters...

 

OPTO.....

 

They want back what they pulled off the table.....

[asidrane]

When they wasted money and dragged the ruling into court now with the proposed layoffs of S/A i knew this was coming but the main thing is...

 

Four Letters...

 

OPTO.....

 

They want back what they pulled off the table.....

 

Theoretically OPTO is a nice idea, but in reality just one employee on the train at a time seems like a really bad idea.

[RTOMan]

Theoretically OPTO is a nice idea, but in reality just one employee on the train at a time seems like a really bad idea.

 

OPTO is not a great Idea to me but its part of the job now so be it, it is what it is.

 

OPTO can work it.

 

Just Not the way MTA beancounters want it to work...

[asidrane]

OPTO is not a great Idea to me but its part of the job now so be it, it is what it is.

 

OPTO can work it.

 

Just Not the way MTA beancounters want it to work...

 

Can you elaborate on this more please? Why do you think it isn't a great idea? From a standpoint of customer safety I don't think it is a good idea because having just one person on the train could make it easier to take over. Also, in a situation where the train needed to be evacuated there is only one person to lead everyone off the train. However, from the idea of having less people to run a train, it makes sense from an efficiency standpoint.

 

What do you mean by "OPTO can work, but not the way bean counters want it to"?

[RTOMan]

Can you elaborate on this more please? Why do you think it isn't a great idea? From a standpoint of customer safety I don't think it is a good idea because having just one person on the train could make it easier to take over. Also, in a situation where the train needed to be evacuated there is only one person to lead everyone off the train. However, from the idea of having less people to run a train, it makes sense from an efficiency standpoint.

 

What do you mean by "OPTO can work, but not the way bean counters want it to"?

 

Personel wise it works, on paper thats what i meant.

 

By the Schdeules and work programs and timetables no.

 

Not enough time to recover from one trip..

 

You are back out on the road..

 

You relay and clean out the train by yourself ...

 

Something goes wrong you are on your own.

 

Are you one of those or know the "Bean Counters" i refer to?

 

Elaboration done...

 

That should help.

[asidrane]

Personel wise it works, on paper thats what i meant.

 

By the Schdeules and work programs and timetables no.

 

Not enough time to recover from one trip..

 

You are back out on the road..

 

You relay and clean out the train by yourself ...

 

Something goes wrong you are on your own.

 

Are you one of those or know the "Bean Counters" i refer to?

 

Elaboration done...

 

That should help.

 

No, I am not a beancounter. I work as a software developer and it has nothing to do with transit, I simply am interested in the subway infrastructure, how it works and how it could be made better.

 

The relay, clean and back out issue is an interesting one. How many runs from terminal to terminal does a crew normally make before being replaced by a new one? Would it work if there were people dedicated to preparing the train to go out on its return run? Pardon my ignorance if that isn't something which would be feasible.

[RTOMan]

No, I am not a beancounter. I work as a software developer and it has nothing to do with transit, I simply am interested in the subway infrastructure, how it works and how it could be made better.

 

The relay, clean and back out issue is an interesting one. How many runs from terminal to terminal does a crew normally make before being replaced by a new one? Would it work if there were people dedicated to preparing the train to go out on its return run? Pardon my ignorance if that isn't something which would be feasible.

 

You got jobs that are 10 or 11 trips in OPTO..

 

Reporting times for T/O's vary..

 

The road T/O prepares the train for service there arent any other personel dedicated for this hence the reasoning for the work programs and timetables needing to be ajusted...

[CPBO]

Well seems like allot of opinions on this one......but these 1k workers that are getting laid off....has to be some of the duplicate jobs.....the way I see it is it would be a blessing in disguise.....if I wanted to go back to school and say be an x-ray technician......hell collect the unemployment get a part time job off the books to help make up the shortfall and go back to school and become a certified x-ray tech takes only 2 years....they make 70-90k a year easy.....become a massage therapist....another good paying job that only takes 2 years.....you have to make a bad situation better.......if they already have a degree then they are far better off they someone that does not....but I would be getting in on the health care industry....every body gets sick one time or another and your job will always be in demand.....I am looking into that now.....do it part time....this way when I move on from here I will have a back up plan..........it is about being ready for the unexpected......you never know what tomorrow may bring....but what do I know I am just the 500 lb gorilla in the room.

[Ridgewoodian]

If you overtax the wealthy, you'll only push them out to greener pastures. That's what happens with overly liberal governments.

 

So where does that leave you? Overtaxing the poor? That seems like an even worse idea. I agree with that great New Yorker and notorious liberal, Alexander Hamilton, that is should be, "a fixed point of policy...to go as far as may be practicable in making the luxury of the rich tributary to the public treasury, in order to diminish the necessity of those impositions, which might create dissatisfaction in the poorer and most numerous classes of the society."

 

I would support a reinstatement of a modest commuter tax. Out of towners who work here use our services - police, fire, transit, etc. It's not unreasonable that they should contribute towards them.

[Zman]

I would support a reinstatement of a modest commuter tax. Out of towners who work here use our services - police, fire, transit, etc. It's not unreasonable that they should contribute towards them.

 

They absolutely should, but it's not going to happen. So you have to get revenue from somewhere and overly taxing the rich is only going to make them move out of the state.

 

If you have a family making $500,000 who lives in New York paying a 12% income tax, that's $60,000 per year that they shell out to the state & city alone. Hike it to 16% and you're talking an additional $20,000 per year. Would you pay it? I sure as hell wouldn't. Now instead of getting the original $50,000 that you were receiving, now you're getting nothing after that family moved out of the city. Taxing the wealthy seems like the easy thing to do...until they reach the breaking point. When they start moving out, revenue becomes stagnant. Then what are you going to do? Why, tax us, the middle class!