A question about signals

[Abba]

Is it possible for the tower to purposely leave a signal red in order that trains should make connections at the next station?

[Joe]

If a train is to be held to make connections, the holding lights (three amber lights near the middle of the platform) will be illuminated. The wayside signals are not used for the purpose of making connections.

[SubwayGuy]

If a train is to be held to make connections, the holding lights (three amber lights near the middle of the platform) will be illuminated. The wayside signals are not used for the purpose of making connections.

 

Correct, and the holding lights are controlled from inside the tower. On old GRS interlocking machines, the controls for the holding lights are toggle switches on a panel that is separate from the actual interlocking machine.

[Joe]

What about on US&S machines?

[SubwayGuy]

What about on US&S machines?

 

Same. Not sure about NX/UR machines though.

[INDman]

Correct, and the holding lights are controlled from inside the tower. On old GRS interlocking machines, the controls for the holding lights are toggle switches on a panel that is separate from the actual interlocking machine.

 

Sort of correct. At some staions they will hold a train with out using the holding lights by not giving the line up because as per rule, the doors are kept open. I have seen them do this a few times and then there are also train Oder signals which are wayside signals.

[SubwayGuy]

Sort of correct. At some staions they will hold a train with out using the holding lights by not giving the line up because as per rule, the doors are kept open. I have seen them do this a few times and then there are also train Oder signals which are wayside signals.

 

Oh referring to that? OK got you now...the way the OP worded it was confusing, made it sound as though the tower would normalize the signal specifically to hold a train, hence why I gave the response I did. But yes, what you said is true. They can wait to give the lineup.

[Abba]

Also some signals are on timers,so what i meant to ask to is will they leave those signals red a little longer so the train can arrive with another one?

[Alex L.]

Timers are controlled by train movement - the towers have no control over them.

[CenSin]

Today, my was held at 9 Avenue to make a connection with the . The same happened in the other direction at 36 Street. Red lights are used for this purpose sometimes with and without the cursed amber lights.

[Matt91]

Speaking of holding lights, is the using LED holding lights now? I was at Hunterspoint Ave on Wednesday, and there was a Manhattan bound train (which was turned around later for reasons unknown) held in the station. When I looked to see if there were any holding lights, I saw were several bright sets of 3 orange circles where the lights would be (which disappeared before the train wrong-railed).

[INDman]

Speaking of holding lights, is the using LED holding lights now? I was at Hunterspoint Ave on Wednesday, and there was a Manhattan bound train (which was turned around later for reasons unknown) held in the station. When I looked to see if there were any holding lights, I saw were several bright sets of 3 orange circles where the lights would be (which disappeared before the train wrong-railed).

 

Yep, newer holding lights are LEDs and I personally don't like them. The first ones that they used were not bright enought, but the new ones are better.

[Fresh Pond]

Speaking of holding lights, is the using LED holding lights now? I was at Hunterspoint Ave on Wednesday, and there was a Manhattan bound train (which was turned around later for reasons unknown) held in the station. When I looked to see if there were any holding lights, I saw were several bright sets of 3 orange circles where the lights would be (which disappeared before the train wrong-railed).

 

you'll find them at any station that was recently rehabbed

[Rutgers Tube]

GRS interlocking machines

 

US&S machines

 

NX/UR machines

 

Brain-picking time. Please clarify and elaborate, whomever can answer the following:

 

a) NX/UR's, if I remember correctly, are of the Entrance-Exit type, and have more or less been the standard for a number of years now, correct. However, are the other two types still in use in NYCT operations, and is the NX/UR scheme the only type that is in current production and distribution?

 

NX/UR is of the pushbutton type; are the other two hand lever operated?

 

c) Which I know that it wasn't the machines weren't at the heart of the matter, but which types were involved in the Chambers and Bergen Streets fires in 2005 and 1999, respectively. I remember that there was some issue about repair and replacement part available in one or both instances because the equipment was essentially obsolete.

 

d) Were one of these machines, prior to the move to NX/UR machines in the 1950's more likely to be found in IRT or IND or BMT control towers, or was one more likely to be found in yards?

 

e) Punchboxes have always been found at interlockings controlled by NX/UR machines, correct? If that's the case, were punchboxes first installed when NX/UR's started to be more widely used, or were they used prior to that (I almost don't see that being possible with hand levers).

 

THANK YOU. :cool:

[INDman]

you'll find them at any station that was recently rehabbed

 

But only if that station is a gap station.

[Abba]

How come there aren't holding lights at every station.Let's say for example. enters Grand Army Plaza,and there is a stalled train at Bergen st.What happens they radio the TO?

[Rutgers Tube]

How come there aren't holding lights at every station.Let's say for example. enters Grand Army Plaza,and there is a stalled train at Bergen st.What happens they radio the TO?

 

I believe so, which would require the train to remain in the station with the doors open while announcements were made by the train crew and over the station P.A.

 

Also, I believe that trains behind the stalled set could switch from the local (3 Track) to the express (1 Track) at the Rogers interlocking railroad south of Franklin Avenue.

 

Can someone correct if I'm wrong, please? Thanks.

[Fresh Pond]

But only if that station is a gap station.

 

Forgot to add that

 

How come there aren't holding lights at every station.Let's say for example. enters Grand Army Plaza,and there is a stalled train at Bergen st.What happens they radio the TO?

 

Most likely, the nearest tower already knows about it since the T/O of said train has to call it in. depending on the location of the train, they would either hold all trains behind it at the nearest station. Or start making other trains go around it (battery run)

...Also, I believe that trains behind the stalled set could switch from the local (3 Track) to the express (1 Track) at the Rogers interlocking railroad south of Franklin Avenue.

 

Can someone correct if I'm wrong, please? Thanks.

 

Yup, that switch is usually used by the trains going to Flatbush Av and late-evening trains that go express to Franklin then local to New Lots. But if something did happen, & trains can use it without problems...other than the usual bottlenecking there

[SubwayGuy]

I'm not a signals and towers guy, but I'll try my best.

 

Brain-picking time. Please clarify and elaborate, whomever can answer the following:

 

a) NX/UR's, if I remember correctly, are of the Entrance-Exit type, and have more or less been the standard for a number of years now, correct. However, are the other two types still in use in NYCT operations, and is the NX/UR scheme the only type that is in current production and distribution?

 

NX/UR's are entrance exit type and have been in use since the 1950's. The other two types are still used by NYCT. In terms of current production and distribution the existing equipment is simply being maintained, not replaced. That which is being replaced is being converted over to computerized control at the RCC or to CBTC.

 

NX/UR is of the pushbutton type; are the other two hand lever operated?

 

Correct. GRS Machines are the "pistol grip" lever type which move in and out of the machine. US&S machine levers swing from side to side. Both are electrically and mechanically interlocked to prevent unsafe moves.

 

c) Which I know that it wasn't the machines weren't at the heart of the matter, but which types were involved in the Chambers and Bergen Streets fires in 2005 and 1999, respectively. I remember that there was some issue about repair and replacement part available in one or both instances because the equipment was essentially obsolete.

 

That I can't answer for sure, however I'd imagine as IND plants they were GRS Model 5 machines.

 

d) Were one of these machines, prior to the move to NX/UR machines in the 1950's more likely to be found in IRT or IND or BMT control towers, or was one more likely to be found in yards?

 

BMT was most likely to use a GRS Model 2 machine (older model of a GRS machine but very similar to a Model 5), IND was most likely to use the GRS Model 5 machine. The IRT I will have to get back to you on as far as it's original setup. I'm not sure.

 

e) Punchboxes have always been found at interlockings controlled by NX/UR machines, correct? If that's the case, were punchboxes first installed when NX/UR's started to be more widely used, or were they used prior to that (I almost don't see that being possible with hand levers).

 

Yes, punchboxes are used at interlockings controlled by NX/UR machines. An indicator on the model board will display the requested route so that the tower operator can set the route.

[Rutgers Tube]

Ah... great explanation. Thank you - it's much appreciated. :tup:

 

Anyone here know which tower housed the first NX/UR machine put into service in NYC?

[INDman]

Ah... great explanation. Thank you - it's much appreciated. :tup:

 

Anyone here know which tower housed the first NX/UR machine put into service in NYC?

 

I think, but I am not sure that Euclid was the first.

[Rutgers Tube]

I think, but I am not sure that Euclid was the first.

 

Is this the machine?

 

Abandoned Stations: 76 Street

[INDman]

Is this the machine?

 

Abandoned Stations: 76 Street

 

Yep thats the one.

[Eric B]

BMT was most likely to use a GRS Model 2 machine (older model of a GRS machine but very similar to a Model 5), IND was most likely to use the GRS Model 5 machine. The IRT I will have to get back to you on as far as it's original setup. I'm not sure.

BMT was GRS, IRT was US&S, and IND was a mixture of both.

 

You could also tell which by the signal equipment. US&S used trip arms that stuck straight up, GRS used the ones that are already leaning over when in the up position. Much of the IND was coverted to these even in areas still controlled by US&S.

 

Also, GRS signal aspects have a hexagonal frame (the glass fits in), US&S has a round frame, and then, there's a third company, Safetrans, which used a round frame with big bolts in it visible.