official Subway - What If?

[Gorgor]

Runs via the 7th Avenue line.

 

 

Impossible.

[Threxx]

Impossible.

 

 

Didn't notice that one...

 

Here's my fix:

 

: Wall Street-Utica Avenue & 86th Street-Woodlawn.

: Via 7th Avenue.

: 86th Street-Pelham Bay Park. service is suspended.

Extra service runs on the M103, which is temporarily extended to South Ferry to help replace Lexington Avenue service.

[Wallyhorse]

Construction on Phase III of the SAS causes an explosion forcing Grand Central to be shut down. Reroute 4/5/6/7, and MNRR trains.

 

runs local from 96th Street and runs with the to South Ferry (some trains terminate at Rector Street and use the loop to turn).

 

runs in upper Manhattan and the Bronx from 86th Street-Woodlawn with LIMITED service to and from 59th Street-Lexington Avenue (wrong-railing on the downtown express track between 59th and 86th street for such trains).

 

runs in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn from Flatbush Avenue (replacing the after Franklin Avenue along that route) to Brooklyn Bridge (some trains terminate at Wall Street).

 

runs via 7th Avenue Line to Atlantic Avenue, then regular route to Franklin Avenue and then replaces the 3 and 4 to Utica Avenue and replaces the to New Lots Avenue.

 

runs 59th Street-Pelham Bay Park ONLY ( is suspended).

 

Special shuttle trains operate in both directions on all tracks between Union Square-Brooklyn Bridge (trains on local tracks make local stops between Union Square and Brooklyn Bridge).

 

is extended to 9th Avenue Brooklyn via the and in Brooklyn to help with abridged Lexington Avenue Line service.

 

Special OOS transfer between the and at 59th Street and the and at 53rd Street-Lexington Avenue.

 

Extra 3rd and Lexington Avenue Bus service plus shuttle buses between 86th Street and South Ferry to help with service.

 

runs Main Street-Hunters Point Avenue ONLY (for Manhattan, transfer to the at Queensboro Plaza, the or at 74th Street-Roosevelt Avenue OR the or at EITHER 74th-Roosevelt or Court Square).

 

ALL Metro-North Service operates from 125th Street-Park Avenue ONLY. Shuttle buses and extra Lexington Avenue bus service along Lexington Avenue and bus service across 125th Street to serve all working subway stations west of Park Avenue.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Wallyhorse

[Threxx]

First of all, I'm not accepting extending the to 9th Avenue as a solution for any of my scenarios. No. Change that.

 

Secondly, those express shuttle trains aren't necessary, just have the local ones run Bowling Green-Union Square.

 

Thirdly, Do you really think all the Metro-North trains can terminate at 125th Street? POOR SOLUTION!

[TheSubwayStation]

NEXT: 53 St and 63 St river crossings (not the entire 53/63 St lines) are unusable.

[Threxx]

NEXT: 53 St and 63 St river crossings (not the entire 53/63 St lines) are unusable.

 

This is a good one:

 

trains run in two sections:

21st Street-Queensbridge to Jamaica, 179th Street, Express. (For service to Roosevelt Island, transfer to the Q102 @ 21st Street.)

Lexington Avenue-63rd Street or 57th Street-6th Avenue to Coney Island.

 

: Lexington Avenue, 53rd Street-World Trade Center. For Court Square transfer to at 42nd Street, PABT.

: Essex Street-Metropolitan Avenue.

[TheSubwayStation]

This is a good one:

 

trains run in two sections:

21st Street-Queensbridge to Jamaica, 179th Street, Express. (For service to Roosevelt Island, transfer to the Q102 @ 21st Street.)

Lexington Avenue-63rd Street or 57th Street-6th Avenue to Coney Island.

 

: Lexington Avenue, 53rd Street-World Trade Center. For Court Square transfer to at 42nd Street, PABT.

: Essex Street-Metropolitan Avenue.

And I thought you were going to run the down Broadway .

[Threxx]

And I thought you were going to run the down Broadway .

 

Why would I do that? That's foamerish!

[TheSubwayStation]

Why would I do that? That's foamerish!

 

I don't think it's exactly foamerish. These are hypothetical scenarios; this thread isn't going to make these re-routes more likely to happen in real life. It's not like people who say such things (you know who they are) just want to foam over a at 9 Av or an at 168 St or whatever. Instead, it's because they think, "Let's extend this train to this place, and it will increase service," without thinking about whether anybody will actually want to ride that train. Some guy at Atlantic Avenue is going to shake his head upon seing a train and he won't get on it. A CPW rider will let the re-routed pass him/her by, and wait for a train (which never will come, because some idiot decided to send it to Jamaica Center or some other crazy place ). You get the picture.

 

I think this is a misuse of the term "foamer". What we're dealing with is just shoddy planning; coming up with confusing train routes that only make sense to railfans and nobody else.

Edited July 3, 2012 by TheSubwayStation

[Wallyhorse]

First of all, I'm not accepting extending the to 9th Avenue as a solution for any of my scenarios. No. Change that.

 

Secondly, those express shuttle trains aren't necessary, just have the local ones run Bowling Green-Union Square.

 

Thirdly, Do you really think all the Metro-North trains can terminate at 125th Street? POOR SOLUTION!

 

Metro North you'd probably have to have some trains turn in the Bronx, but I would have as many trains as possible running.

 

I would want to use at least three, if not all four tracks between Union Square and Brooklyn Bridge for shuttles in that scenario because you would have having people pouring into 14th Street. The idea is maximizing what you have. That's also why I extend the to 9th Avenue to help with the other lines by diverting some of those needing lower Manhattan from what would be overcrowded Lexington and 7th Avenue line trains as well as the .

 

NEXT: 53 St and 63 St river crossings (not the entire 53/63 St lines) are unusable.

 

My version again maximizes track usage:

 

For 21st-Queensbridge or Roosevelt Island, take shuttle bus at Queens Plaza

 

terminates in Manhattan at 53rd Street-Lexington Avenue and after West 4th is diverted to replace the between West 4th in Manhattan and 7th Avenue in Brooklyn to Coney Island, running express Jay Street-Church Avenue and peak direction express Church Avenue-Avenue X. and riders are strongly advised to change at 9th Street-4th Avenue for the or backtrack to 7th Avenue if they want Manhattan service.

 

stops at Queens Plaza and then runs via the between Queens Plaza and Coney Island.

is extended to Jamaica Center to replace the on the upper level

 

Transfer between the or and at EITHER Roosevelt Avenue or Court Square for Manhattan OR from Jamaica Center, take the on the lower level for Manhattan.

 

replaces the after 47-50, terminating at either 57th Street-6th Avenue OR 63rd Street-Lexington Avenue.

[Brooklyn]

NEXT: 53 St and 63 St river crossings (not the entire 53/63 St lines) are unusable.

 

 

That's a real good one...

 

Basically the only way to get to QB from Manhattan is through 60th st....

the will have to see extended action.

 

The will be suspended.

The and with both terminate at 57th st.

 

continues its normal route

terminates at 57th st (all times) to make room for the . Astoria riders will be upset, but that's what it is.

Goes to Jamaica Center, as an EXPRESS, replacing the .

The goes to 179th st making all local stops.

 

service will have to increase...some of those trains can turn around at Bedford-Nostrand Av....

service will have to increase as well because people will transfer at 74th st and Court Square.

[TheSubwayStation]

terminates in Manhattan at 53rd Street-Lexington Avenue and after West 4th is diverted to replace the between West 4th in Manhattan and 7th Avenue in Brooklyn to Coney Island, running express Jay Street-Church Avenue and peak direction express Church Avenue-Avenue X.

 

Oh, gee...Here we go again...Do you actually think that people at stations are going to get on an train that randomly shows up? They're going to try to wait for the , (which brilliantly runs via the line), and they'll never get to Manhattan.

is extended to Jamaica Center to replace the on the upper level

 

What makes you think that Jamaica Center riders want to take the , which doesn't go where they're going?

My version again maximizes track usage:

 

Listen, Wallyhorse. Once again, it isn't just about sending trains to every station. It's about sending trains that riders RECOGNIZE. Can you expect a Culver line rider to understand where a re-routed train goes? I really don't think so. You can send the to Far Rockaway for example and say, "Oh, this is great! Far Rockaway riders now have service!" But they won't have any idea what a train is doing at Far Rockaway, and won't get on it. Edited July 3, 2012 by TheSubwayStation

[TheSubwayStation]

My replies to Brooklyn's post in red:

 

That's a real good one...

 

Basically the only way to get to QB from Manhattan is through 60th st....

the will have to see extended action.

 

The will be suspended.

Wait a second. Can't the run WTC - Lex Av/53 St?

The and with both terminate at 57th st.

Once again, I think the can terminate at Lex Av/53 St.

 

continues its normal route

terminates at 57th st (all times) to make room for the . Astoria riders will be upset, but that's what it is.

Why does there need to be more room for the ? The always uses the 60 St tube. Or do you plan on increasing service frequency?

Goes to Jamaica Center, as an EXPRESS, replacing the .

The goes to 179th st making all local stops.

I disagree with that; riders at local stops want service to Manhattan. There's no absolute need for express service.

 

service will have to increase...some of those trains can turn around at Bedford-Nostrand Av....

service will have to increase as well because people will transfer at 74th st and Court Square.

 

Anyway, folks, I think the solution might be to re-sign trains in Queens as trains, and send them through the 60 St tube down Broadway. Some can terminate at Whitehall St.

[Wallyhorse]

Oh, gee...Here we go again...Do you actually think that people at stations are going to get on an train that randomly shows up? They're going to try to wait for the , (which brilliantly runs via the line), and they'll never get to Manhattan.

 

What makes you think that Jamaica Center riders want to take the , which doesn't go where they're going?Listen, Wallyhorse. Once again, it isn't just about sending trains to every station. It's about sending trains that riders RECOGNIZE. Can you expect a Culver line rider to understand where a re-routed train goes? I really don't think so. You can send the to Far Rockaway for example and say, "Oh, this is great! Far Rockaway riders now have service!" But they won't have any idea what a train is doing at Far Rockaway, and won't get on it.

 

And I do it the way I do because it all goes back to rule #1:

 

Pay attention!!

 

If riders can't learn to pay attention and be aware of service changes that are in effect to maximize track usage, that is their problem.

 

Oh, and obviously, in my scenario the Chambers-WTC platform would be closed. People would actually have to walk up to the / platform at Chambers for those trains and switch to the at West 4th OR walk over to Fulton and take the to Essex OR walk to Brooklyn Bridge and take the to Bleecker.

 

It all goes back to knowing your alternate routes, one of the first things I did when I was living in New York and was old enough to take the subway.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Wallyhorse

[TheSubwayStation]

If riders can't learn to pay attention and be aware of service changes that are in effect to maximize track usage, that is their problem.

 

Really? When trains suddenly and unexpectedly get sent to places where they never normally go, I think that people have the right to be confused.

It all goes back to knowing your alternate routes, one of the first things I did when I was living in New York and was old enough to take the subway.

 

No, it doesn't. "Knowing your alternate routes" is not going to teach you why an train would randomly show up in Brooklyn, or where it's headed.

[B3 Via Av U]

And I do it the way I do because it all goes back to rule #1:

 

Pay attention!!

 

If riders can't learn to pay attention and be aware of service changes that are in effect to maximize track usage, that is their problem.

 

Oh, and obviously, in my scenario the Chambers-WTC platform would be closed. People would actually have to walk up to the / platform at Chambers for those trains and switch to the at West 4th OR walk over to Fulton and take the to Essex OR walk to Brooklyn Bridge and take the to Bleecker.

 

It all goes back to knowing your alternate routes, one of the first things I did when I was living in New York and was old enough to take the subway.

 

Really? When trains suddenly and unexpectedly get sent to places where they never normally go, I think that people have the right to be confused.No, it doesn't. "Knowing your alternate routes" is not going to teach you why an train would randomly show up in Brooklyn, or where it's headed.

 

Guys, stop acting like 2-year-olds over this.

NEXT:

Under stress from twisting and turning for 50 years, the trusses on the Manhattan Bridge give way, and the lower level only collapses. Reroute the .

[Brooklyn]

^^^^^

 

Ok..... and both via Whitehall.

 

suspended.

 

in two sections: 205th st to Grand st and

Coney Island-Atlantic Terminal

 

The and trains really have no where to go if there is a bridge problem....There is no way for them to bypass the bridge and resume their route. This is one of the issues with the 6th av line.

[Gorgor]

Guys, stop acting like 2-year-olds over this.

NEXT:

Under stress from twisting and turning for 50 years, the trusses on the Manhattan Bridge give way, and the lower level only collapses. Reroute the .

 

 

via the tunnel

runs as a yellow B train between 21st Street Queensbridge and Coney Island, via Brighton, and then looks up West End

runs as a blue D between 205th Street and Far Rockaway, making local stops in Brooklyn

 

gets extended to 168th street just because I feel like it

gets extended to Jamaica Center making local stops

 

gets revived as a brown W and runs between Broad Street and Bay Ridge, making express stops in Brooklyn.

 

There. I do believe that I have maximized tracks. Anyone who looks at a brown W train in Brooklyn and lets it go by is retarded and a moron according to logic.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Gorgor

[Brighton Express]

Guys, stop acting like 2-year-olds over this.

 

 

Word you brothas need to cool it down.

 

NEXT:

Under stress from twisting and turning for 50 years, the trusses on the Manhattan Bridge give way, and the lower level only collapses. Reroute the .

 

 

No Service

2 Av to Bedford Park Blvd (6 Av Express/CPW/Grand CC Local)

Coney Island to Astoria Ditmars (Sea Beach/4 Av/Broadway/Astoria Local) [via Tunnel]

Atlantic Av to Coney Island (Brighton Local)

36 St to Coney Island (West End Local)

[TheSubwayStation]

At first I thought you were serious !

 

Anyway, Gorgor, let's not take this too far. I remember where this thread's been before...

 

Okay, here's what I'd do:

 

run via tunnel, runs local in Brooklyn

terminates at 2 Av station

runs in two sections; 205 St - 2 Av , Coney Island - Atlantic Av

 

 

Guys, stop acting like 2-year-olds over this.

 

Word you brothas need to cool it down.

 

Look, I don't think either of us got very upset. Edited July 3, 2012 by TheSubwayStation

[NX Express]

NEXT: 53 St and 63 St river crossings (not the entire 53/63 St lines) are unusable.

 

 

No trains between Lex Av/53 St and Court Sq/23 St (this service is to shuttle people to the from the rest of QBL). Runs express in Queens.

No trains between 57 St and Court Sq/23 St (this service is to shuttle people to the from the rest of QBL). Runs express in Queens.

No trains between Broad St and 71 Av.

Terminates at 57 St, extra trains sent to the .

Service drastically increased with the extra trains running between Queens and either Canal St or Whitehall St.

 

 

Under stress from twisting and turning for 50 years, the trusses on the Manhattan Bridge give way, and the lower level only collapses. Reroute the .

 

Run via the between 57 St and Dekalb Av.

No trains between 2 Av and Brighton Beach.

Trains run in two sections:

.........205 St to 34 St.

.........34 St to Coney Island, via Broadway Express and tunnel. Runs every 10 minutes. Since this is a long-term change, signs will be clearly and abundantly posted in 34 St station to help passengers.

 

Additional trains operate between Atlantic Av/Barclays and Coney Island.

 

 

NEXT

The 53 St river crossing is closed. In addition, trains to/from QBL cannot use the 60 St tunnel (Astoria service is unaffected).

Edited July 4, 2012 by NX Express

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

rerouted via 63 street in both direction from W.4 Street to Roosevelt Avenue

rerouted via 63 street in both directions from 47-50 sts to 36 street, Queens

rerouted via 63 street in both directions from 57 street Manhattan to 36 street Queens

EXTENDED to Queens Plaza

 

In Addition

Select Trains run between Myrtle Avenue and Metropolitan Avenue

Select trains run via Crosstown

 

Next Scenario:

 

The second Avenue subway is being constructed, and in the process, Grand Street collapses and Houston Street-2 Avenue station collapses, as well as the Lexington Avenue 63 street station collapses.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Q23 Central Term

[NX Express]

rerouted via 63 street in both direction from W.4 Street to Roosevelt Avenue

rerouted via 63 street in both directions from 47-50 sts to 36 street, Queens

rerouted via 63 street in both directions from 57 street Manhattan to 36 street Queens

EXTENDED to Queens Plaza

 

In Addition

Select Trains run between Myrtle Avenue and Metropolitan Avenue

Select trains run via Crosstown

 

Next Scenario:

 

The second Avenue subway is being constructed, and in the process, Grand Street collapses and Houston Street-2 Avenue station collapses, as well as the Lexington Avenue 63 street station collapses.

 

 

How would the (50 tph) all fit in the 63 St tunnel? Even with select trains rerouted, this is impossible.

 

Your scenario:

No trains between 34 St and Brighton Beach.

No trains between Broadway-Lafayette and Atlantic Av/Barclays.

Trains run via the between Jackson Hts and 5 Av/53 St, and also via the between West 4 St and Jay St.

No trains between 57 St station and 71 Av.

 

Trains run local throughout.

Suspended.

Additional trains operate between 71 Av and Whitehall St (these replace M trains in Queens).

 

NEXT

138 St/Grand Concourse station is impassable. Reroute the and provide as much alternative service as possible.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

 

How would the (50 tph) all fit in the 63 St tunnel? Even with select trains rerouted, this is impossible.

 

Your scenario:

No trains between 34 St and Brighton Beach.

No trains between Broadway-Lafayette and Atlantic Av/Barclays.

Trains run via the between Jackson Hts and 5 Av/53 St, and also via the between West 4 St and Jay St.

No trains between 57 St station and 71 Av.

 

Trains run local throughout.

Suspended.

Additional trains operate betwCeen 71 Av and Whitehall St (these replace M trains in Queens).

 

NEXT

138 St/Grand Concourse station is impassable. Reroute the and provide as much alternative service as possible.

 

Well By select trains it would be every other train,

Scenario

Runs between 125 street and New Lots Avenue

via 7 Avenue terminating at South Ferry

Suspended

Use Bx34 or Bx16 from Woddlawn to the

Free Shuttle buses operate between 161 street and 138 street stations

Use for other stations

Edited July 4, 2012 by Q23 Central Term

[Threxx]

And I do it the way I do because it all goes back to rule #1:

 

Pay attention!!

 

If riders can't learn to pay attention and be aware of service changes that are in effect to maximize track usage, that is their problem.

 

Oh, and obviously, in my scenario the Chambers-WTC platform would be closed. People would actually have to walk up to the / platform at Chambers for those trains and switch to the at West 4th OR walk over to Fulton and take the to Essex OR walk to Brooklyn Bridge and take the to Bleecker.

 

It all goes back to knowing your alternate routes, one of the first things I did when I was living in New York and was old enough to take the subway.

 

 

No rider has enough time to learn every single possible alternate route. The announcements are spotty, and when you do things like send the to Jamiaca Center, it gets nothing done. Is it hard to believe that every single rider isn't a foamer?

 

NEXT

138 St/Grand Concourse station is impassable. Reroute the and provide as much alternative service as possible.

 

 

: Via 7th Avenue, reduced service, some trainsets run on the line.

 

: 125th Street-Utica Avenue & 149th Street-Woodlawn.