Express Bus Nonstop Segments?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You've been bigging up Riverdale way too hard as of late.... and as much as people may disagree with you in other discussions, at least your posts were logical....

 

This one here though, the logic is flawed.....

Riverdale has the furthest commute b/c it's the most northern point of the bronx (which isn't true, but I'll let that slide for a minute), and b/c city islanders don't have their own designated express bus ???

 

Let me elaborate... Riverdale is the most northern point in the Western part of the Bronx. There, I elaborated/corrected my post.

 

As for my other part about City Island, yes, I stand by what I said and the reason why is because clearly the folks on City Island don't use the express bus because if they did then they would get more than the few trips that I get during the weekdays. This means that they use their cars and not public transportation. Of course some do, but the majority don't which automatically makes their commutes shorter overally. I mean if I can jump in a car right in front of the house and not have to walk to the express bus, wait for it, walk from it and so on then clearly my commute in most cases will be shorter. That's the logic that I'm using.

 

2) You said "They're not going to buy that", which was in response to Gorgor saying that he would put in a large time cushion to prevent the buses from being delayed.

 

And how do you know that BM riders care about interlining? As long as their bus shows up on or close to schedule, they don't care whether it was interlined or not.

 

I know because in case you forgot, I happen to use the BM buses too, quite a bit. Buses already show up late as it is without interlining, so interlining could indeed make things worse. My BM3 of late going back to Sheepshead Bay is always a good 20 - 30 minutes late. :mad: Aside from that you can never ever predict the traffic here in NYC, so it is still very possible that the bus could be late with 45 minutes to deadhead.

 

 

3) It is not the neighborhood in The Bronx that is the furthest north. Wakefield is, and Woodlawn and Eastchester are also pretty far north. The travel times from all of these neighborhoods to Midtown area around an hour, so Riverdale's commute times are the same as those in Wakefield, Woodlawn, and Eastchester.

 

I already corrected/elaborated on my thought above, but I'll re-iterate what I said. Riverdale is the most northern point in the Western part of the Bronx.

 

Plus, you have to consider the commute times if there was no express bus service. Again, the travel time from all neighborhoods is more or less the same as Riverdale's. Woodlawn riders have to take a bus to reach the , and Wakefield riders have to deal with the slow train. Sure they can take Metro-North, but then again so can Riverdale riders.

 

Yeah and? If there was no express bus in Riverdale, we would have to deal with the bus to 242nd street to the slow train which is local all the way down into Manhattan, so that's a moot point. Also it's not like we've got MetroNorth right there. You have to either drive, walk or take a shuttle bus to MetroNorth from most points in Riverdale.

 

The BxM18 exists to serve Downtown riders, not riders along 5th Avenue. That's what the BxM1 and BxM3 are for (the BxM1 is only a couple of blocks away on Lexington Avenue).

 

And actually, extra tracks are being built with part of the reason being that trains are delayed. Look at the Main Line and Ronkonkoma Branches of the LIRR, and the ARC project for NJ Transit. Of course, part of the reason is plain capacity, but the fact that the tunnels are jammed to capacity definitely contributes to delays.

 

 

That's completely different. They're not moving tracks. They're adding tracks. Qjdisaster is saying that the BxM18 should be re-routed because it is too slow coming down 5th Avenue. If that's the case then we need to move all of the express buses that come down 5th Avenue, because just about all of the express buses in the Bronx come down 5th Avenue. 5th Avenue in case anyone pays attention is practically dead smack in the middle of Midtown, so it serves a very centralized area, hence why moving it to 2nd Avenue would be completely ridiculous. It's job is to serve not only a centralized area, but also the commercial areas as well for the residential community of Riverdale and the subsections of Riverdale that it serves.

 

As for the BxM18, it does so exist to serve riders along 5th Avenue, otherwise it would only serve Downtown and would not make stops. It purposely starts dropping off and picking up south of 57th street for the precise purpose of providing service for folks on 5th Avenue. The BxM3 passes through Riverdale, but it's primary focus is to serve the folks in Yonkers. It also makes far more stops south in the Bronx than the Riverdale buses do, which would make our commutes in Riverdale longer.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) As for my other part about City Island, yes, I stand by what I said and the reason why is because clearly the folks on City Island don't use the express bus because if they did then they would get more than the few trips that they get during the weekdays. This means that they use their cars and not public transportation. Of course some do, but the majority don't which automatically makes their commutes shorter overally. I mean if I can jump in a car right in front of the house and not have to walk to the express bus, wait for it, walk from it and so on then clearly my commute in most cases will be shorter. That's the logic that I'm using.

 

2) I know because in case you forgot, I happen to use the BM buses too, quite a bit. Buses already show up late as it is without interlining, so interlining could indeed make things worse. My BM3 of late going back to Sheepshead Bay is always a good 20 - 30 minutes late. :mad: Aside from that you can never ever predict the traffic here in NYC, so it is still very possible that the bus could be late with 45 minutes to deadhead.

 

3) Yeah and? If there was no express bus in Riverdale, we would have to deal with the bus to 242nd street to the slow train which is local all the way down into Manhattan, so that's a moot point. Also it's not like we've got MetroNorth right there. You have to either drive, walk or take a shuttle bus to MetroNorth from most points in Riverdale.

 

4) As for the BxM18, it does so exist to serve riders along 5th Avenue, otherwise it would only serve Downtown and would not make stops. It purposely starts dropping off and picking up south of 57th street for the precise purpose of providing service for folks on 5th Avenue. The BxM3 passes through Riverdale, but it's primary focus is to serve the folks in Yonkers. It also makes far more stops south in the Bronx than the Riverdale buses do, which would make our commutes in Riverdale longer.

 

1) The Bx29 actually sees decent usage, so I'm sure there are a decent number taking the bus to reach the or BxM7/BxM8, so they're not all driving.

 

2) Then they can use another route instead of the BM buses. A more frequent route would be better because the impact of a missing bus would likely be less than on a low-frequency route if the dispatcher knew what he was doing.

 

For instance, if it interlined with the X17J (not saying they should use that, but let's use it as an example), the bus runs every 6 minutes at the height of rush hour. If a bus is missing, they should hold the next bus so that the spacing is even (instead of a 12 minute gap and then a 6 minute gap, you have 2 9 minute gaps in service).

 

3) The point is that Riverdale doesn't have the worst commute. If the BxM9 didn't exist, riders would have to drag themselves to the subway on the Bx8 or Bx40/42 and then take a long subway ride into Manhattan. The same for the BxM7.

 

But as you already admitted that they're not the only ones with the worst commutes (because you narrowed it down to say the western Bronx, and Riverdale's the only real neighborhood without access to subway service where the people would realistically consider taking the express bus), there's no point in discussing it further.

 

4) No way does the BxM3 exist for the purpose of serving Yonkers. That's like saying the X10 exists to serve Port Richmond (and demographically, both areas are similar). Yeah, it might serve a few people, but the main reason is because the depot is there. When I used it, me and my mother and brothers were the only ones on it while it was in Yonkers.

 

The BxM3 exists to serve eastern Riverdale, as well as Sedgwick Avenue to a certain extent.

[B35 via Church]

Let me elaborate... Riverdale is the most northern point in the Western part of the Bronx. There, I elaborated/corrected my post.

 

As for my other part about City Island, yes, I stand by what I said and the reason why is because clearly the folks on City Island don't use the express bus because if they did then they would get more than the few trips that I get during the weekdays. This means that they use their cars and not public transportation. Of course some do, but the majority don't which automatically makes their commutes shorter overally. I mean if I can jump in a car right in front of the house and not have to walk to the express bus, wait for it, walk from it and so on then clearly my commute in most cases will be shorter. That's the logic that I'm using.

lol... I was waitin for you to save face in mentioning it's the NW most part of the bronx.... but as long as you corrected yourself....

 

 

Anyway, you can stand by whatever you like.... but I'm still gonna call you out on this blatant bias you have...

 

So now the amount of express service a route has, dictates the avg. commuting time of a resident of a certain neighborhood that has exp. service? Is that what you're really conveying here..... The fact that City Island only has 2 runs each way, is in no way, shape, or form indicative of how (much shorter) their commute is.... All it proves is that they're not using express buses as a mode of their commute - and nothin more....

 

City Island express bus ridership being much less than that of Riverdale's, has nothin to do w/ how much shorter (or longer) their commutes are.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

you can stand by whatever you like.... but I'm still gonna call you out on this blatant bias you have...

 

So now the amount of express service a route has, dictates the avg. commuting time of a resident of a certain neighborhood that has exp. service? Is that what you're really conveying here..... The fact that City Island only has 2 runs each way, is in no way, shape, or form indicative of how (much shorter) their commute is.... All it proves is that they're not using express buses as a mode of their commute - and nothin more....

 

City Island express bus ridership being much less than that of Riverdale's, has nothin to do w/ how much shorter (or longer) their commutes are.....

 

Well the question is then why aren't they using their express buses? They obviously feel that their commutes can be shorter driving. And yes, I mean look at Staten Island. The folks on the South Shore get express bus service longer and they get more of it because they live further than us folks on the North Shore and have fewer transit options.

 

If the felt that their commutes were so long then they would provide more service to them. The consensus is clearly that they don't need it because there commutes are quicker driving overall.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well the question is then why aren't they using their express buses? They obviously feel that their commutes can be shorter driving. And yes, I mean look at Staten Island. The folks on the South Shore get express bus service longer and they get more of it because they live further than us folks on the North Shore and have fewer transit options.

 

If the felt that their commutes were so long then they would provide more service to them. The consensus is clearly that they don't need it because there commutes are quicker driving overall.

 

As you've mentioned before, they have the SIR, which can make their commutes shorter than those coming from the North Shore because they only have buses. Just because they're further out doesn't mean it's necessarily harder to reach Manhattan.

 

The reason why they don't have that much service is because there simply aren't a whole lot of people on the island, and therefore there isn't a lot of ridership there. They figure that the Bx29 connects to the and BxM7/BxM8 and that's enough.

 

The BxM7B had 70 riders a day, which is 17-18 riders per bus, and that's just from one neighborhood. The marginal costs of extending some more BxM8 trips there shouldn't be too much, but for one reason or another, they don't want to do it. Maybe they're just being cheap and figure the riders will transfer from the subway or other express routes so there's no point in spending extra money for extra trips there.

[B35 via Church]

Well the question is then why aren't they using their express buses? They obviously feel that their commutes can be shorter driving. And yes, I mean look at Staten Island. The folks on the South Shore get express bus service longer and they get more of it because they live further than us folks on the North Shore and have fewer transit options.

 

If the felt that their commutes were so long then they would provide more service to them. The consensus is clearly that they don't need it because there commutes are quicker driving overall.

 

Why aren't they using the 2 runs they have, who knows.... but for the life of me, I don't buy it's because their commutes are supposedly so short.....

 

Distance/long commuting times does not determine amount of service.....

I direct you to the x63, 64, 68, 19, & the 22.... Going by your logic, these routes should be running at headways equal to, or lower than that of riverdale..... including during off-peak times....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) The Bx29 actually sees decent usage, so I'm sure there are a decent number taking the bus to reach the or BxM7/BxM8, so they're not all driving.

 

Yeah, and again I never said all, so yet again you go putting words in my mouth. Do me a favor, and I'm asking again... If you're going to quote me, then please quote me correctly. :mad:

 

 

2) Then they can use another route instead of the BM buses. A more frequent route would be better because the impact of a missing bus would likely be less than on a low-frequency route if the dispatcher knew what he was doing.

 

For instance, if it interlined with the X17J (not saying they should use that, but let's use it as an example), the bus runs every 6 minutes at the height of rush hour. If a bus is missing, they should hold the next bus so that the spacing is even (instead of a 12 minute gap and then a 6 minute gap, you have 2 9 minute gaps in service).

 

Yeah, well either way the X17J is a terrible example. The service on that line is frequent enough for a reason and they really can't afford to go missing a bus. Like I said, there isn't much more to cut in terms of express buses during the week, so they need to just re-instate the X90 with the same hours, but less frequency and reduce it from there is there is still too much service.

 

3) The point is that Riverdale doesn't have the worst commute. If the BxM9 didn't exist, riders would have to drag themselves to the subway on the Bx8 or Bx40/42 and then take a long subway ride into Manhattan. The same for the BxM7.

 

But as you already admitted that they're not the only ones with the worst commutes (because you narrowed it down to say the western Bronx, and Riverdale's the only real neighborhood without access to subway service where the people would realistically consider taking the express bus), there's no point in discussing it further.

 

Yep and you just made the point that Riverdale is really the only neighborhood without subway service so there.

 

4) No way does the BxM3 exist for the purpose of serving Yonkers. That's like saying the X10 exists to serve Port Richmond (and demographically, both areas are similar). Yeah, it might serve a few people, but the main reason is because the depot is there. When I used it, me and my mother and brothers were the only ones on it while it was in Yonkers.

 

The BxM3 exists to serve eastern Riverdale, as well as Sedgwick Avenue to a certain extent.

 

Okay, so where did I say that it exists SOLELY for serving Yonkers? I said that is passes through Riverdale, so obviously it has more than one purpose. I have to spell everything out for you.

 

Why aren't they using the 2 runs they have, who knows.... but for the life of me, I don't buy it's because their commutes are supposedly so short.....

 

Distance/long commuting times does not determine amount of service.....

I direct you to the x63, 64, 68, 19, & the 22.... Going by your logic, these routes should be running at headways equal to, or lower than that of riverdale.....

 

Well the X63, X64 and X68 are simple... The ridership on those lines has been falling. As for the X19 and the X22, it's called park-and-ride. Besides the X19 is just a variant of the X17 anyway. Most folks drive to the X22 anyway from Tottenville, so the thinking is to have X1s run to the Transit Center and they can be picked up or drive from there.

 

As you've mentioned before, they have the SIR, which can make their commutes shorter than those coming from the North Shore because they only have buses. Just because they're further out doesn't mean it's necessarily harder to reach Manhattan.

 

Let's see... A friend of mine lives in Tottenville and she recently started working in Midtown near me. She used to work in Downtown Brooklyn and would take the SIR to the ferry to the subway. Her commute was about 1:30. Her commute would be almost 2 hours taking the SIR to the ferry to the subway, so let's see... Three modes of transportation and about a 2 hour commute each way... Yeah that's not hard at all.

 

The reason why they don't have that much service is because there simply aren't a whole lot of people on the island, and therefore there isn't a lot of ridership there. They figure that the Bx29 connects to the and BxM7/BxM8 and that's enough.

 

Well then they shouldn't bother sending any runs out there at all. The few rides that they send out there a day is an insult. I mean why would I even bother to deal with the express bus when it has that few runs? It's pointless. The folks don't bother because there isn't enough service, so they just stick with the modes of transportation that they have. The amount of transportation that you provide for a line, the fewer the amount of people will be that will use it.

 

The BxM7B had 70 riders a day, which is 17-18 riders per bus, and that's just from one neighborhood. The marginal costs of extending some more BxM8 trips there shouldn't be too much, but for one reason or another, they don't want to do it. Maybe they're just being cheap and figure the riders will transfer from the subway or other express routes so there's no point in spending extra money for extra trips there.

 

Yeah, well that's exactly what it is. I mean the way I see it those few trips that they provide is just them showing face to pretend that they're trying to provide service out there and then they have the nerve to sit there and say that they need to renumber the route to the BxM8 to make it more visible for folks in City Island? Please. It's too late now and now even if they did provide more service, unless it was significantly more frequent, I doubt it would make any difference.

[B35 via Church]

The folks on the South Shore get express bus service longer and they get more of it because they live further than us folks on the North Shore and have fewer transit options.

 

Well the X63, X64 and X68 are simple... The ridership on those lines have been falling. As for the X19 and the X22, it's called park-and-ride. Besides the X19 is just a variant of the X17 anyway. Most folks drive to the X22 anyway from Tottenville, so the thinking is to have X1s run to the Transit Center and they can be picked up or drive from there.

 

You're not being consistent here....

 

In one instance, you're tellin me that S. Shore gets more service than N. shore riders b/c they live further down the island & what not.... and in the next, S. Shore doesn't get as much service than [Riverdale (for example)] due to park & rides....

-----

 

As far as the x63/4/8, yes ridership has declined, but those routes never had real low headways... I don't want to mention his name, but a particular SE Queens resident that no longer posts here can tell you all about that....

 

 

Well then they shouldn't bother sending any runs out there at all. The few rides that they send out there a day is an insult. I mean why would I even bother to deal with the express bus when it has that few runs? It's pointless. The folks don't bother because there isn't enough service, so they just stick with the modes of transportation that they have. The amount of transportation that you provide for a line, the fewer the amount of people will be that will use it.

Exactly... which has nothin to do w/ their commuting time.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're not being consistent here....

 

In one instance, you're tellin me that S. Shore gets more service than N. shore riders b/c they live further down the island & what not.... and in the next, S. Shore doesn't get as much service than [Riverdale (for example)] due to park & rides....

 

Yes, it's been long known that the South Shore's transportation has not kept up with the population boom down there and while Riverdale is suburban, the South Shore is far more suburban. Also, I get the feeling that because the commutes for folks on the South Shore as much longer than those in Riverdale that they don't want to provide any more service than they have to. Let's remember that Bus gets money from the city. The X1 isn't part of Bus, but rather NYCT, as are the X63, X64, X68, X19 and X22.

 

 

Exactly... which has nothin to do w/ their commuting time.

 

In a way it does because their dependence on the express bus at least on City Island is pretty much non-existent, so you can't even compare their commute using the express bus, which was really what I was getting at. If they had sufficient express bus service from City Island, then you could compare their commutes to other far out places in the Bronx with express bus service.

[B35 via Church]

Yes, it's been long known that the South Shore's transportation has not kept up with the population boom down there and while Riverdale is suburban, the South Shore is far more suburban. Also, I get the feeling that because the commutes for folks on the South Shore as much longer than those in Riverdale that they don't want to provide any more service than they have to. Let's remember that Bus gets money from the city. The X1 isn't part of Bus, but rather NYCT, as are the X63, X64, X68, X19 and X22.

You don't have to try & convince me that S. Shore needs more service; I'm not disputing that... The MTA being cheap asses is far more a factor as to why service levels aren't as adequate down in those parts, as opposed to this notion that *the shorter/the longer the distance/commute times, the less service/more service they provide*....

 

 

 

In a way it does because their dependence on the express bus at least on City Island is pretty much non-existent, so you can't even compare their commute using the express bus, which was really what I was getting at.

 

If they had sufficient express bus service from City Island, then you could compare their commutes to other far out places in the Bronx with express bus service.

The distances b/w Riverdale & midtown Manhattan.... and b/w City Island & midtown Manhattan are not variable.... they don't change according to how much bus service one gets over the other.... City Island isn't any less further from manhattan b/c the people are not taking public transportation (in the form of an exp. bus) in any significant numbers.....

 

The second half of your statement is just not true.... All I need is one Riverdalian on a BxM1/2, one Wakefielder on a BxM11, one Baychesterian (lol) on a BxM10, one City Islander on a BxM8, etc. to compare their commutes..... I don't need to know the routes respective service levels in order to determine that.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You don't have to try & convince me that S. Shore needs more service; I'm not disputing that... The MTA being cheap asses is far more a factor as to why service levels aren't as adequate down in those parts, as opposed to this notion that *the shorter/the longer the distance/commute times, the less service/more service they provide*....

 

Yes, but that is indeed part of the reason. It is cheaper to provide X1s and have them run to the ETC than having them or another bus run down to Tottenville. If you think about it they did everything possible to reduce ridership on the X1. They added another X2 to push Midtown riders to that bus (which is a shorter run (New Dorp to Midtown)). They slashed the amount of X1s and have more X1s running short turn. All of those things are not just because.

 

The distances b/w Riverdale & midtown Manhattan.... and b/w City Island & midtown Manhattan are not variable.... they don't change according to how much bus service one gets over the other.... City Island isn't any less further from manhattan b/c the people are not taking public transportation (in the form of an exp. bus) in any significant numbers.....

 

The second half of your statement is just not true.... All I need is one Riverdalian on a BxM1/2, one Wakefielder on a BxM11, one Baychesterian (lol) on a BxM10, one City Islander on a BxM8, etc. to compare their commutes..... I don't need to know the routes respective service levels in order to determine that.....

 

And that's exactly my point... How can one determine the commute when they have so few runs and so few people using it from City Island??

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Yeah, and again I never said all, so yet again you go putting words in my mouth. Do me a favor, and I'm asking again... If you're going to quote me, then please quote me correctly. :mad:

 

2) Yeah, well either way the X17J is a terrible example. The service on that line is frequent enough for a reason and they really can't afford to go missing a bus. Like I said, there isn't much more to cut in terms of express buses during the week, so they need to just re-instate the X90 with the same hours, but less frequency and reduce it from there is there is still too much service.

 

3) Yep and you just made the point that Riverdale is really the only neighborhood without subway service so there.

 

4) Okay, so where did I say that it exists SOLELY for serving Yonkers? I said that is passes through Riverdale, so obviously it has more than one purpose. I have to spell everything out for you.

 

5) Well the X63, X64 and X68 are simple... The ridership on those lines have been falling. As for the X19 and the X22, it's called park-and-ride. Besides the X19 is just a variant of the X17 anyway. Most folks drive to the X22 anyway from Tottenville, so the thinking is to have X1s run to the Transit Center and they can be picked up or drive from there.

 

6) Let's see... A friend of mine lives in Tottenville and she recently started working in Midtown near me. She used to work in Downtown Brooklyn and would take the SIR to the ferry to the subway. Her commute was about 1:30. Her commute would be almost 2 hours taking the SIR to the ferry to the subway, so let's see... Three modes of transportation and about a 2 hour commute each way... Yeah that's not hard at all.

 

7) Well then they shouldn't bother sending any runs out there at all. The few rides that they send out there a day is an insult. I mean why would I even bother to deal with the express bus when it has that few runs? It's pointless. The folks don't bother because there isn't enough service, so they just stick with the modes of transportation that they have. The amount of transportation that you provide for a line, the fewer the amount of people will be that will use it.

 

8) Yeah, well that's exactly what it is. I mean the way I see it those few trips that they provide is just them showing face to pretend that they're trying to provide service out there and then they have the nerve to sit there and say that they need to renumber the route to the BxM8 to make it more visible for folks in City Island? Please. It's too late now and now even if they did provide more service, unless it was significantly more frequent, I doubt it would make any difference.

 

1) You said "This means that they use their cars and not public transportation. Of course some do, but the majority don't which automatically makes their commutes shorter overally."

 

So let me rephrase that. The majority of City Island residents are using public transportation to reach Manhattan, not their cars like you're saying.

 

2) Well, you know me. If there is a way they can cut costs without severely affecting the passengers, I'm all for it. In my opinion, interlining isn't going to have a drastic effect on the riders of that line.

 

Plus, here's another way they can do it so it doesn't impact the riders too badly. If the bus comes late, they can hold another bus for an extra few minutes, and when that late bus manages to come down, it can skip some stops to get back on schedule.

 

Say you have a bus that still managed to run a few minutes late despite having the 45 minute cushion. You hold the next X17J for a couple of more minutes so it can get a few more riders to prevent the next bus from becoming overcrowded. In the meantime, you send the late bus down a faster route (say, have it take a side street to 5th Avenue and then send it down from there).

 

So the bus that was held would be carrying riders from the stops along 57th Street, plus, say 54th Street and 46th Street. By that time, the late bus would've caught up to it, and it would take the people along 42nd Street (since the bus that was held would probably have close to a seated load by that point)

 

3) I said out of the Western Bronx neighborhoods. There are plenty of areas in the other portions of The Bronx without subway service (I just listed them. Co-Op City, Throgs Neck, Woodlawn, etc).

 

You said they don't get the frequent express service that Riverdale does because their commutes aren't as long. That's not true.

 

If you want to compare Riverdale's commutes with those of other Western Bronx neighborhoods, then yes, it's true that they probably have the longest commutes, but what would be the point in that comparison? Riverdale is pretty much the only neighborhood with any express service (aside from the areas along the BxM3)

 

4) You said "It's mainly for the folks in Yonkers". That implies that the primary users are people living in Yonkers. That's not true. That's like saying most of the X10 riders are coming from Port Richmond.

 

If the depot wasn't in Yonkers, I doubt the BxM3 would serve it.

 

5) So why don't any of those areas have (or ever had) express bus service comparable to that of Riverdale off-peak? (Because during rush hour the frequencies on the X19 and X22 are comparable to those in Riverdale, but they have no off-peak service at all).

 

6) Did I say it wasn't a long commute? No I didn't. I said it wasn't longer than the commute from the North Shore.

 

Mariners' Harbor is 5 miles from St. George. Tottenville is 14 miles from St. George. During rush hour, it's more or less 30 minutes to reach St. George from either neighborhood. If you want another comparison, try New Dorp vs. West Brighton.

 

Maybe if she lived near the S53, her commute would've been slightly shorter because she could've gone through Bay Ridge instead of going through Manhattan, but the point is that in general, the commute times from the North Shore and South Shore are comparable.

 

7) I wouldn't go that far. If you time yourself for the trip, it isn't that bad.

 

Plus, I'm sure some people show up and say "If the Bx29 comes first, I'll take that and catch the BxM8, but if the BxM8 comes, it'll be easier and I'll just hop right on it"

 

8) So you're defeating your own argument. The MTA says "Yeah, their commutes are long, but we're only going to provide them with a few runs of express service".

 

In a way it does because their dependence on the express bus at least on City Island is pretty much non-existent, so you can't even compare their commute using the express bus, which was really what I was getting at. If they had sufficient express bus service from City Island, then you could compare their commutes to other far out places in the Bronx with express bus service.

 

The point is that once on the bus, the commute time is comparable (maybe even a little bit longer from City Island). It doesn't matter how often the bus runs. As B35 said, get somebody from Wakefield, Eastchester, and Co-Op City and compare their commute to Riverdale, and they'll be roughly the same.

 

1) Yes, but that is indeed part of the reason. It is cheaper to provide X1s and have them run to the ETC than having them or another bus run down to Tottenville. If you think about it they did everything possible to reduce ridership on the X1. They added another X2 to push Midtown riders to that bus (which is a shorter run (New Dorp to Midtown)). They slashed the amount of X1s and have more X1s running short turn. All of those things are not just because.

 

2) And that's exactly my point... How can one determine the commute when they have so few runs and so few people using it from City Island??

 

1) But the overall amount of service they're providing is less on the X1 (and variants) than on the Riverdale routes.

 

2) Compare the commute of the average City Island rider to the commute of the average Riverdale rider. The point is that the commutes are the same, even if the frequency of the express bus isn't.

[B35 via Church]

Yes, but that is indeed part of the reason. It is cheaper to provide X1s and have them run to the ETC than having them or another bus run down to Tottenville. If you think about it they did everything possible to reduce ridership on the X1. They added another X2 to push Midtown riders to that bus (which is a shorter run (New Dorp to Midtown)). They slashed the amount of X1s and have more X1s running short turn. All of those things are not just because.

 

Yeah none of that is just because, and I'm not disputing this.....

 

As a matter of fact, what does that particular situation w/ the hylan routes have to do w/ this particular discussion.....

They truncated x1 runs to cut down on costs; it had squat to do w/ riders commuting times.....

 

 

 

And that's exactly my point... How can one determine the commute when they have so few runs and so few people using it from City Island??

It's the exact opposite of your point....

 

You're puttin it out there that ya need to know the service levels of these routes to compare commuting times of riders on differing routes.....

[qjtransitmaster]

Why aren't they using the 2 runs they have, who knows.... but for the life of me, I don't buy it's because their commutes are supposedly so short.....

 

Distance/long commuting times does not determine amount of service.....

I direct you to the x63, 64, 68, 19, & the 22.... Going by your logic, these routes should be running at headways equal to, or lower than that of riverdale..... including during off-peak times....

 

yes you are right however you fail to mention that unlike SI's X19 and X22 the SE queens lines have faster alternatives at least the X63 and X64 have faster alternatives such as the LIRR. Most off peak ridership to SE queens especially weekends will definately go to the LIRR the cityticket makes it cheaper than express bus so those lines have no chance of attracting weekend ridership. During the off peak times ppl will always choose LIRR over those buses. X68 has at off peak times so the X68 can't attract off peak riders at all you can forget about weekend service. There is zero demand for weekend express service to SE queens the LIRR city ticket you have to thank for that. I agree with your point however. But in SI via 8 is right that service needs to be enhanced as unlike SE queens the X22 and X19 have zero alternatives that are competitive time wise.

[checkmatechamp13]

Plus, here's another way they can do it so it doesn't impact the riders too badly. If the bus comes late, they can hold another bus for an extra few minutes, and when that late bus manages to come down, it can skip some stops to get back on schedule.

 

Say you have a bus that still managed to run a few minutes late despite having the 45 minute cushion. You hold the next X17J for a couple of more minutes so it can get a few more riders to prevent the next bus from becoming overcrowded. In the meantime, you send the late bus down a faster route (say, have it take a side street to 5th Avenue and then send it down from there).

 

So the bus that was held would be carrying riders from the stops along 57th Street, plus, say 54th Street and 46th Street. By that time, the late bus would've caught up to it, and it would take the people along 42nd Street (since the bus that was held would probably have close to a seated load by that point)

 

 

And to add onto the post, if a driver really thought he was going to be delayed, he could make his way to 57th Street/1st Avenue for the connection to the M15 and M31, so passengers could go the last few blocks up the UES, and the B/O would be able to start their next run back to the outer boroughs.

 

Again, this would only apply if the B/O was really running late.

 

yes you are right however you fail to mention that unlike SI's X19 and X22 the SE queens lines have faster alternatives at least the X63 and X64 have faster alternatives such as the LIRR. Most off peak ridership to SE queens especially weekends will definately go to the LIRR the cityticket makes it cheaper than express bus so those lines have no chance of attracting weekend ridership. During the off peak times ppl will always choose LIRR over those buses. X68 has at off peak times so the X68 can't attract off peak riders at all you can forget about weekend service. There is zero demand for weekend express service to SE queens the LIRR city ticket you have to thank for that. I agree with your point however. But in SI via 8 is right that service needs to be enhanced as unlike SE queens the X22 and X19 have zero alternatives that are competitive time wise.

 

He didn't bring it up because it's not relevant (especially the part about off-peak service). The point is that those riders have long commutes because they're far out.

 

Not to mention the fact that for a lot of riders, the LIRR might not have even been much faster. If they work on the East Side, they have to get all the way over to Penn Station (and we all know how hard it can be to travel crosstown) and then wait for a train that stops in their neighborhood, because not all LIRR trains make local stops.

 

The x25 having been interlined w/ the x29, with those physical buses having came from UP, yielded no complaints b/c the x25 did not have a solid riderbase... the x90 did.....

 

x25 was a (antiquated, IMO) commuter route (RR/subway to commercial areas)....

x90 actually served a specific group of residents (residents to commercial areas... like every other express route).....

 

So, ya can't really compare the x25 to the x90 in this particular discussion.....

 

 

Personally, I think the X25 could've gotten more ridership if it ran more frequently. Looking back, I think the MTA tried to kill that route over the years.

 

I can't find it now, but I have a map from 1993, and the X25 had a longer span (3 hours in each direction rather than an hour and a half before it was cut), and it ran every 15 minutes, rather than every 30 minutes. Running the better frequency wouldn't have cost much extra because those buses were deadheading anyway.

 

As a result of reducing the frequencies, ridership probably declined. Plus, if a person shows up and sees nobody waiting, they don't know if it's because they just missed the bus or if nobody's riding, so they'll just take a taxi or subway.

[Gorgor]

And to add onto the post, if a driver really thought he was going to be delayed, he could make his way to 57th Street/1st Avenue for the connection to the M15 and M31, so passengers could go the last few blocks up the UES, and the B/O would be able to start their next run back to the outer boroughs.

 

Again, this would only apply if the B/O was really running late.

 

 

 

He didn't bring it up because it's not relevant (especially the part about off-peak service). The point is that those riders have long commutes because they're far out.

 

Not to mention the fact that for a lot of riders, the LIRR might not have even been much faster. If they work on the East Side, they have to get all the way over to Penn Station (and we all know how hard it can be to travel crosstown) and then wait for a train that stops in their neighborhood, because not all LIRR trains make local stops.

 

 

 

Personally, I think the X25 could've gotten more ridership if it ran more frequently. Looking back, I think the MTA tried to kill that route over the years.

 

I can't find it now, but I have a map from 1993, and the X25 had a longer span (3 hours in each direction rather than an hour and a half before it was cut), and it ran every 15 minutes, rather than every 30 minutes. Running the better frequency wouldn't have cost much extra because those buses were deadheading anyway.

 

As a result of reducing the frequencies, ridership probably declined. Plus, if a person shows up and sees nobody waiting, they don't know if it's because they just missed the bus or if nobody's riding, so they'll just take a taxi or subway.

 

Yeah, most of the time reducing the amount of service by making the time between buses greater will have the opposite effect. If a bus runs every 30 minutes then it's worth it to just stay in Grand Central Terminal and get a train down rather than go out and pray that a bus is there.

 

Also in general, if the MTA keeps reducing frequency on bus routes then people will find alternatives. Takes for example the M31: It only runs once every 10 minutes during the day so you'll see a lot of people at the bus stops along York trying to hail a cab because there's no bus in sight.

 

Same thing with crosstown buses in the PM rush going East from the Lexington Avenue subway. They used to come every 2-3 minutes but now it's cut back to 5+ so, especially when it's raining or absolutely freezing, you'll see a short line of people trying to hail cabs at the corner.

 

I remember after 9/11 when both the X90 and X92 went down Water Street (I was around there then - not by the WFC like now), and I could just walk to the corner and an X90/X92 would show up within a few minutes. You didn't even need to time yourself with any specific bus because they came so frequently, and every bus that I was ever on always was at least half full in the morning, and in the PM rush if it was raining really hard they could get close to full.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Personally, I think the X25 could've gotten more ridership if it ran more frequently. Looking back, I think the MTA tried to kill that route over the years.

 

I can't find it now, but I have a map from 1993, and the X25 had a longer span (3 hours in each direction rather than an hour and a half before it was cut), and it ran every 15 minutes, rather than every 30 minutes. Running the better frequency wouldn't have cost much extra because those buses were deadheading anyway.

 

As a result of reducing the frequencies, ridership probably declined. Plus, if a person shows up and sees nobody waiting, they don't know if it's because they just missed the bus or if nobody's riding, so they'll just take a taxi or subway.

 

 

If I recall correctly, my understanding is that the X25 became doomed once 9/11 happened. After that ridership started to decline which made sense. Back at that time we had two offices here in NYC. One Downtown near Deutsche Bank, which was a major client Downtown and then an office in Midtown. The Deutsche Bank building was hit hard and forced Deutsche Bank to move elsewhere, as many companies did, leaving Downtown quite vacant. Some of our clients have moved down there, but that took years to happen, and of course by now we know that the X25 is gone. The recession pretty much solidified things. When I used the X25 back in 2008, it did get decent usage (at least that run going to Grand Central), but still. It was seen as a bus that mainly the affluent could afford, esp. after 9/11.

 

Yeah none of that is just because, and I'm not disputing this.....

 

As a matter of fact, what does that particular situation w/ the hylan routes have to do w/ this particular discussion.....

They truncated x1 runs to cut down on costs; it had squat to do w/ riders commuting times.....

 

Yes it does. Longer commuting times mean higher costs for the , hence why I brought up the X1 as an example. You asked me about routes like the X63, X64, etc. that are far out and why they have little service and part of it has to do with the costs to run those routes. The longer the commute the higher the cost. That was the point I was making and plus the fact that those lines are run by NYCTA and not Bus, which the city gives money for.

 

 

 

It's the exact opposite of your point....

 

You're puttin it out there that ya need to know the service levels of these routes to compare commuting times of riders on differing routes.....

 

Well yeah, I'd like to know how you can really gage how long one's commute is when you only have a few runs out of City Island? Commuting times can most certainly vary based on the time of day, so to base one's commute on one or two runs can be quite deceiving. That's my point and I don't see how you can deny that. That's like taking one express bus run that takes 40 minutes and basing that one run and all of the runs on the line for the entire day.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah, most of the time reducing the amount of service by making the time between buses greater will have the opposite effect. If a bus runs every 30 minutes then it's worth it to just stay in Grand Central Terminal and get a train down rather than go out and pray that a bus is there.

 

Also in general, if the MTA keeps reducing frequency on bus routes then people will find alternatives. Takes for example the M31: It only runs once every 10 minutes during the day so you'll see a lot of people at the bus stops along York trying to hail a cab because there's no bus in sight.

 

Same thing with crosstown buses in the PM rush going East from the Lexington Avenue subway. They used to come every 2-3 minutes but now it's cut back to 5+ so, especially when it's raining or absolutely freezing, you'll see a short line of people trying to hail cabs at the corner.

 

I remember after 9/11 when both the X90 and X92 went down Water Street (I was around there then - not by the WFC like now), and I could just walk to the corner and an X90/X92 would show up within a few minutes. You didn't even need to time yourself with any specific bus because they came so frequently, and every bus that I was ever on always was at least half full in the morning, and in the PM rush if it was raining really hard they could get close to full.

 

5 minute headways and you're complaining? Geez, I wish I were in that position. Maybe I would be if the S44 and S59 didn't bunch together like they do now.

 

The MTA would be wise to boost the frequency of the M31. If those people aren't transferring to any other route, that's revenue the MTA's losing. For the crosstown routes, they might not be losing revenue from the people at the subway (since they have a transfer), but I'm sure there are people going crosstown who hail cabs instead of waiting for the crosstown bus because of the poor frequencies.

 

Reducing the frequency of the X90 might cause a slight drop in ridership, but I can't see it being too profound because the riders feel that the alternatives aren't good (like you said, the subway and M15 don't serve the WFC and take longer), whereas the same wasn't true for the X25 (the subway was right there and the headways were worse than the X90's would be if the service levels were cut in half). I guess some riders would still be lost to the taxis, but I guess there's not much you can do about that.

 

1) If I recall correctly, my understanding is that the X25 became doomed once 9/11 happened. After that ridership started to decline which made sense. Back at that time we had two offices here in NYC. One Downtown near Deutsche Bank, which was a major client Downtown and then an office in Midtown. The Deutsche Bank building was hit hard and forced Deutsche Bank to move elsewhere, as many companies did, leaving Downtown quite vacant. Some of our clients have moved down there, but that took years to happen, and of course by now we know that the X25 is gone. The recession pretty much solidified things. When I used the X25 back in 2008, it did get decent usage (at least that run going to Grand Central), but still. It was seen as a bus that mainly the affluent could afford, esp. after 9/11.

 

2) Yes it does. Longer commuting times mean higher costs for the , hence why I brought up the X1 as an example. You asked me about routes like the X63, X64, etc. that are far out and why they have little service and part of it has to do with the costs to run those routes. The longer the commute the higher the cost. That was the point I was making and plus the fact that those lines are run by NYCTA and not Bus, which the city gives money for.

 

3) Well yeah, I'd like to know how you can really gage how long one's commute is when you only have a few runs out of City Island? Commuting times can most certainly vary based on the time of day, so to base one's commute on one or two runs can be quite deceiving. That's my point and I don't see how you can deny that. That's like taking one express bus run that takes 40 minutes and basing that one run and all of the runs on the line for the entire day.

 

1) You have a point there, but the MTA could've still saved it if it really wanted to. Like Gorgor and I have said, the subway is right in Grand Central, and while it's more crowded, it's less risky (as far as getting to your destination on time goes) than waiting for a bus that runs every 30 minutes. If they ran it every 15 minutes (using buses that were deadheading back to Brooklyn anyway), they might've been able to maintain a better ridership base.

 

But as BrooklynBus keeps saying, the MTA doesn't care about maintaining its ridership base.

 

2) You could have a route with a relatively low operating cost that goes out further, if it has very high ridership. The X22 goes out much further than the SE Queens routes and yet it has a lower cost per passenger than the X63 and X64.

 

And the MTA is may be more generous with the MTA Bus routes than the NYCT ones, but for the most part it doesn't go overboard (I mean, it's kept some routes that I feel should've been eliminated due to cost, but it doesn't run excessive amounts of service on them). I mean, the QM3, QM16, QM17, and QM18 have very little service on them (those aren't the ones I think should be eliminated)

 

3) I don't see how it's going to really make a difference. During rush hour, all buses get stuck in a certain amount of traffic, whether they're going out to City Island or Riverdale, so the travel time would still be comparable.

 

The travel time to City Island on the 2 runs that go there is 75 minutes. The travel time to Riverdale is around 65-70 minutes during rush hour. If they're comparable during rush hour, the travel time should be comparable off-peak.

[qjtransitmaster]

5 minute headways and you're complaining? Geez, I wish I were in that position. Maybe I would be if the S44 and S59 didn't bunch together like they do now.

 

The MTA would be wise to boost the frequency of the M31. If those people aren't transferring to any other route, that's revenue the MTA's losing. For the crosstown routes, they might not be losing revenue from the people at the subway (since they have a transfer), but I'm sure there are people going crosstown who hail cabs instead of waiting for the crosstown bus because of the poor frequencies.

 

Reducing the frequency of the X90 might cause a slight drop in ridership, but I can't see it being too profound because the riders feel that the alternatives aren't good (like you said, the subway and M15 don't serve the WFC and take longer), whereas the same wasn't true for the X25 (the subway was right there and the headways were worse than the X90's would be if the service levels were cut in half). I guess some riders would still be lost to the taxis, but I guess there's not much you can do about that.

 

 

 

1) You have a point there, but the MTA could've still saved it if it really wanted to. Like Gorgor and I have said, the subway is right in Grand Central, and while it's more crowded, it's less risky (as far as getting to your destination on time goes) than waiting for a bus that runs every 30 minutes. If they ran it every 15 minutes (using buses that were deadheading back to Brooklyn anyway), they might've been able to maintain a better ridership base.

 

But as BrooklynBus keeps saying, the MTA doesn't care about maintaining its ridership base.

 

2) You could have a route with a relatively low operating cost that goes out further, if it has very high ridership. The X22 goes out much further than the SE Queens routes and yet it has a lower cost per passenger than the X63 and X64.

 

And the MTA is may be more generous with the MTA Bus routes than the NYCT ones, but for the most part it doesn't go overboard (I mean, it's kept some routes that I feel should've been eliminated due to cost, but it doesn't run excessive amounts of service on them). I mean, the QM3, QM16, QM17, and QM18 have very little service on them (those aren't the ones I think should be eliminated)

 

3) I don't see how it's going to really make a difference. During rush hour, all buses get stuck in a certain amount of traffic, whether they're going out to City Island or Riverdale, so the travel time would still be comparable.

 

The travel time to City Island on the 2 runs that go there is 75 minutes. The travel time to Riverdale is around 65-70 minutes during rush hour. If they're comparable during rush hour, the travel time should be comparable off-peak.

 

QM16/17 have ridership cause we all know how much of an the can be especially at rush hour. The QM3 there is just no excuse it's pure waste of resources.

[Gorgor]

5 minute headways and you're complaining? Geez, I wish I were in that position. Maybe I would be if the S44 and S59 didn't bunch together like they do now.

 

The MTA would be wise to boost the frequency of the M31. If those people aren't transferring to any other route, that's revenue the MTA's losing. For the crosstown routes, they might not be losing revenue from the people at the subway (since they have a transfer), but I'm sure there are people going crosstown who hail cabs instead of waiting for the crosstown bus because of the poor frequencies.

 

Reducing the frequency of the X90 might cause a slight drop in ridership, but I can't see it being too profound because the riders feel that the alternatives aren't good (like you said, the subway and M15 don't serve the WFC and take longer), whereas the same wasn't true for the X25 (the subway was right there and the headways were worse than the X90's would be if the service levels were cut in half). I guess some riders would still be lost to the taxis, but I guess there's not much you can do about that.

 

I'm not complaining about the 5 minute headways, I'm just saying that for some people who live on York and East End (usually I see it in a group of 2 or more people) they'll just take a cab if the bus isn't already there because it'll only take 5 minutes in a cab at most rather than 15 minutes with the bus including waiting times. The only time I ever take a cab for that is if it's raining or if I'm just so tired.

 

If X90 frequencies were reduced too much (for example running every 20+ minutes) then riders at some of the big stops, such as 79th and 86th, would just take a group ride taxi or unmarked van respectively, which both can get to Wall Street before the bus even gets on the FDR. But if they ran every 15 minutes then the MTA might break even or even profit if done correctly.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm not complaining about the 5 minute headways, I'm just saying that for some people who live on York and East End (usually I see it in a group of 2 or more people) they'll just take a cab if the bus isn't already there because it'll only take 5 minutes in a cab at most rather than 15 minutes with the bus including waiting times. The only time I ever take a cab for that is if it's raining or if I'm just so tired.

 

If X90 frequencies were reduced too much (for example running every 20+ minutes) then riders at some of the big stops, such as 79th and 86th, would just take a group ride taxi or unmarked van respectively, which both can get to Wall Street before the bus even gets on the FDR. But if they ran every 15 minutes then the MTA might break even or even profit if done correctly.

 

True the line could have been tweaked to let ridership rise to it's full potential. One move extend it to 125th metro-north to time with BXM lines for people bound for yorkville as that can increase ridership on those lines and X90. In addition running bidirectional could have created a new travel market alltogether for people from SI and Brooklyn now have a timed connection with X90 and don't forget NJ people to reach upper west side and york ave hospitals and worksites this can influence ridership on many BM lines and can increase ridership considerably on those BM and SI lines while increasing X90's ridership as well at the same time.

[checkmatechamp13]

QM16/17 have ridership cause we all know how much of an the can be especially at rush hour. The QM3 there is just no excuse it's pure waste of resources.

 

They have ridership, but they still have low frequencies.

 

I'm not complaining about the 5 minute headways, I'm just saying that for some people who live on York and East End (usually I see it in a group of 2 or more people) they'll just take a cab if the bus isn't already there because it'll only take 5 minutes in a cab at most rather than 15 minutes with the bus including waiting times. The only time I ever take a cab for that is if it's raining or if I'm just so tired.

 

If X90 frequencies were reduced too much (for example running every 20+ minutes) then riders at some of the big stops, such as 79th and 86th, would just take a group ride taxi or unmarked van respectively, which both can get to Wall Street before the bus even gets on the FDR. But if they ran every 15 minutes then the MTA might break even or even profit if done correctly.

 

Relax, I'm just kidding about the 5 minute headways.

 

As far as the X90 goes, you have a point. I wonder if better advertising of the route can help build ridership and make it so that the headways don't have to be reduced. I mean, I think the problem with a lot of express routes is that people don't know about them. I find it strange that a route serving an area as dense as the UES wasn't completely full, even if the headways were low. I mean, you'd think more people would look to avoid the crowding on the Lexington Avenue Line.

 

I mean, with the right advertising and interlining, the X90 could become a potential moneymaker for the MTA.

 

True the line could have been tweaked to let ridership rise to it's full potential. One move extend it to 125th metro-north to time with BXM lines for people bound for yorkville as that can increase ridership on those lines and X90. In addition running bidirectional could have created a new travel market alltogether for people from SI and Brooklyn now have a timed connection with X90 and don't forget NJ people to reach upper west side and york ave hospitals and worksites this can influence ridership on many BM lines and can increase ridership considerably on those BM and SI lines while increasing X90's ridership as well at the same time.

 

You can't time it with SI routes. There are too many and they run too frequently to do that.

 

But in any case, that might not be a bad idea. I remember bringing a relative to a hospital on the UES (on multiple occasions), and it would've helped if the X90 had reverse-peak service (though most of the time, we took the X17J to the M31, but at least we would've had the option of going through Lower Manhattan).

 

Obviously, we were only 2 people and we don't have to make that trip anymore, but I'm sure there are SI residents who work at those hospitals, or maybe just East Midtown. I remember one of the workers who said she commuted to somewhere around Church Avenue in Brooklyn and she took the M31 to the ( and sometimes took the B35 home. If she's going to pay 2 fares, she might as well buy an Express Bus Plus MetroCard and take the X90 to a BM bus and then take the B35 from there.

 

I don't think ridership would increase considerably on the SI and BM lines, but it would provide a good use for some express buses coming from The Bronx and Queens that would otherwise deadhead.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) You have a point there, but the MTA could've still saved it if it really wanted to. Like Gorgor and I have said, the subway is right in Grand Central, and while it's more crowded, it's less risky (as far as getting to your destination on time goes) than waiting for a bus that runs every 30 minutes. If they ran it every 15 minutes (using buses that were deadheading back to Brooklyn anyway), they might've been able to maintain a better ridership base.

 

But as BrooklynBus keeps saying, the MTA doesn't care about maintaining its ridership base.

 

I don't know about the X25. The ridership was questionable at times, so I can see why it was cut.

 

2) You could have a route with a relatively low operating cost that goes out further, if it has very high ridership. The X22 goes out much further than the SE Queens routes and yet it has a lower cost per passenger than the X63 and X64.

 

Well then explain the X1... :confused: Here's a route with the highest ridership in the system and the looked for every way possible to force folks off of it. I'd personally like to know why the operating costs for that line are so high with such high ridership? I have to say that many people including myself were pissed with their original proposals for the X1 and the X9. The plan was originally to eliminate both the X6 and X9, with a big cut back in X1s. I do use both the X1 and X9 from Midtown, so my commute would've affected. :mad:

 

3) I don't see how it's going to really make a difference. During rush hour, all buses get stuck in a certain amount of traffic, whether they're going out to City Island or Riverdale, so the travel time would still be comparable.

 

The travel time to City Island on the 2 runs that go there is 75 minutes. The travel time to Riverdale is around 65-70 minutes during rush hour. If they're comparable during rush hour, the travel time should be comparable off-peak.

 

 

Oh please... There's only one of those runs that really qualify as a run during the heart of rush hour. The others are earlier or before the heart of rush hour, so I don't see how you can use those 4 runs as any real indication of how long it actually takes just by looking at a friggin' schedule. Let's remember how the comes up with those schedules to begin with.

 

I remember after 9/11 when both the X90 and X92 went down Water Street (I was around there then - not by the WFC like now), and I could just walk to the corner and an X90/X92 would show up within a few minutes. You didn't even need to time yourself with any specific bus because they came so frequently, and every bus that I was ever on always was at least half full in the morning, and in the PM rush if it was raining really hard they could get close to full.

 

Well now someone is showing their age... I was in college at that time... Anywho, I'm curious as to why the X92 was discontinued?? :confused:

[qjtransitmaster]

They have ridership, but they still have low frequencies.

 

 

 

Relax, I'm just kidding about the 5 minute headways.

 

As far as the X90 goes, you have a point. I wonder if better advertising of the route can help build ridership and make it so that the headways don't have to be reduced. I mean, I think the problem with a lot of express routes is that people don't know about them. I find it strange that a route serving an area as dense as the UES wasn't completely full, even if the headways were low. I mean, you'd think more people would look to avoid the crowding on the Lexington Avenue Line.

 

I mean, with the right advertising and interlining, the X90 could become a potential moneymaker for the MTA.

 

 

 

You can't time it with SI routes. There are too many and they run too frequently to do that.

 

But in any case, that might not be a bad idea. I remember bringing a relative to a hospital on the UES (on multiple occasions), and it would've helped if the X90 had reverse-peak service (though most of the time, we took the X17J to the M31, but at least we would've had the option of going through Lower Manhattan).

 

Obviously, we were only 2 people and we don't have to make that trip anymore, but I'm sure there are SI residents who work at those hospitals, or maybe just East Midtown. I remember one of the workers who said she commuted to somewhere around Church Avenue in Brooklyn and she took the M31 to the ( and sometimes took the B35 home. If she's going to pay 2 fares, she might as well buy an Express Bus Plus MetroCard and take the X90 to a BM bus and then take the B35 from there.

 

I don't think ridership would increase considerably on the SI and BM lines, but it would provide a good use for some express buses coming from The Bronx and Queens that would otherwise deadhead.

 

True however reverse X90 would gather it's riders from several BM lines and SI lines also it will time at some locations with QM lines further increasing ridership.

 

The lines MTA should tweak and restore are B39 tweak it into an LGA line over BQE with bus lane protection similar to gowanas HOV setup.

 

Restore X90 and tweak it's routing to maximize connections and ridership basically it would link with most QM lines and BXM lines and BM and SI express routes some others may be influenced by X90's new routing.

It would gain a special ability to also connect to many out of state wall street buses as well. This can maximize ridership on so many other lines and X90 itself it would influence ridership on almost all express lines if done right.

 

 

B24 however separate it's segments merge one of em the other BQE branch turns into an HOV line to atlantic terminal test reliability if the bus can be consistant then we will have err well a SBS on steroids. Weekend service may return.

 

 

Merge S42 with S54's manor rd segment will force weekend service back. S54/57 to NJ will force weekend service back while disposing of S66.

 

 

B2 to SI is extreme and basically requires the MTA to have BALLZ. If done right it can work but if done wrong it will fail hard. The B2 idea was influenced from other members on this board that was where I got that idea. Restore BM service reductions except BM4.

 

Did I simplify my post enough for you? Did I or do I have to type it slowly and in bold for you to get it for those who can't read?

 

Getting real tired of people who can't understand what I post it's getting irritating If this isn't easy to read then I don't know what is.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

True however reverse X90 would gather it's riders from several BM lines and SI lines also it will time at some locations with QM lines further increasing ridership.

 

The lines MTA should tweak and restore are B39 tweak it into an LGA line over BQE with bus lane protection similar to gowanas HOV setup. Restore X90 and tweak it's routing to maximize connections and ridership basically it would link with most QM lines and BXM lines and BM and SI express routes some others may be influenced by X90's new routing.

It would gain a special ability to also connect to many out of state wall street buses as well. This can maximize ridership on so many other lines and X90 itself. B24 however separate it's segments merge one of em the other BQE brance turns into an HOV line to atlantic terminal test reliability if bus can be consistant then we will have a well SBS on steroids. Weekend service may return.

 

 

Merge S42 with S54's manor rd segment will force weekend service back. S54/57 to NJ will force weekend service back while disposing of S66. B2 to SI is extreme and basically requires the MTA to have BALLZ. If done right it can work but if done wrong it will fail hard. The B2 idea was influenced from other members on this board that was where I got that idea. Restore BM service reductions except BM4.

 

LMAO... I don't even words for this post. :confused: