Express Bus Nonstop Segments?

[FamousNYLover]

I remember when it was date of public hearing at LGA Sheralton, I got on X51 Viking and you may know I met Forest Glen, but I he did not ride bus.

I remember this friendly B/O went longcut, via Queens-Midtown Tunnel to BQE to Grand Central Parkway, and exit to regular route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, you implied that I made a gross generalization about the UES. I didn't. The UES is filled with good people. The x90 though? It was a heaven of elitists.

 

My 'logic' had nothing to do with that. I didn't even use logic to recommend anything, you just made all of that up. I never implied the bus should have been cut due to the demographics of the ridership. I did say, however, that the M15 SBS (and in turn the 4/5/6) were all viable alternatives that these elitists of x90 would have to learn to use like the rest of us, and I stand by that.

 

I'm aware of how tough commuting is. Ever since I was a kid, I never went to a school less than 2 miles away from me. Today, I walk a mile to the train, take the train for 30 minutes, then walk another 1/2 mile to work. It is what it is. So when you, like me, are 'not even half awake,' you can walk a little too. And I'm sorry, but the fact that there is no transportation that goes literally from your doorstep to your work brings absolutely no sympathy from me. If you're that set on not walking an inch or even riding the bus, then by all means, get a car service or a taxi. I'm not particularly interested in working out all your transportation options, because clearly absolutely none are good enough for you.

 

 

I don't see what the type of riders that are on a form of transportation has to do with whether or not the service should exist and you are clearly stating that because the X90 had nothing but "snobs" on it according to you that it shouldn't exist. Just be real and stop beating around the bush and be honest. That's how you really feel, so come out and say it. Otherwise, there is no need to bring up what type of riders use the bus.

 

If the calls the M15SBS a true substitute for the X90, then they should extend it to where the X90 went which is the WFC and cut out more stops. Otherwise, it is not a substitute to the X90.

 

Also, crowding is most definitely a problem that they should address. Sure he has options, but they are mainly overcrowded. A slight detail that you forgot to include. I don't see why they can't have some M15SBSs start at say 86th street to alleviate crowding. Also extending the M15SBS to serve the WFC wouldn't take that long.

 

That's the same BS that they said about the X16. Take the S98 to the ferry. Well let's see. The X16 took about 40 minutes to get Downtown. The S98 to the ferry took about an hour on a good day and on bad days a good 1 1/2 or more.

[B35 via Church]

My 'logic' had nothing to do with that. I didn't even use logic to recommend anything, you just made all of that up. I never implied the bus should have been cut due to the demographics of the ridership.

That's how I read it too....

 

 

 

Oh, so just because someone lives in the Upper East Side automatically makes them a snob?

He never said nor implied that....

 

all the rhetoric you used in your reply to him, is nothin more than that being the card you want to continue to pull.... it's no different than blacks playing the race card whenever they feel a sense of inferiority.....

 

When it was mentioned in this thread that your fellow patrons (and your community board/poiltical representatives) done little to nothin to either help keep the x90 alive, or to put some serious pressure on the MTA to bring it back.... all you wanna do is come up with ways to have other express routes serve Yorkville....

 

How about focusing on bringing back the x90....

[Gorgor]

That's how I read it too....

 

 

 

 

He never said nor implied that....

 

all the rhetoric you used in your reply to him, is nothin more than that being the card you want to continue to pull.... it's no different than blacks playing the race card whenever they feel a sense of inferiority.....

 

When it was mentioned in this thread that your fellow patrons (and your community board/poiltical representatives) done little to nothin to either help keep the x90 alive, or to put some serious pressure on the MTA to bring it back.... all you wanna do is come up with ways to have other express routes serve Yorkville....

 

How about focusing on bringing back the x90....

 

What I was just trying to say is if a bus is in Manhattan anyways and needs to deadhead back to Brooklyn via the tunnel, why not just sent it up and become an X90? If the MTA actually thought out how they could increase revenue for a second rather than just care about cutting expenses then they could measure out the revenue from whatever BM route + X90 minus operating costs, and that combo might even make a profit.

 

Just curious, but what do they do after an M98 finishes a run and there's no more scheduled ones in the opposite direction after that? Does it go all the way back to whatever depot it's out of or do they make it into an M1/2/3/4 or a crosstown before that?

[LRG]

What I was just trying to say is if a bus is in Manhattan anyways and needs to deadhead back to Brooklyn via the tunnel, why not just sent it up and become an X90? If the MTA actually thought out how they could increase revenue for a second rather than just care about cutting expenses then they could measure out the revenue from whatever BM route + X90 minus operating costs, and that combo might even make a profit.

 

Just curious, but what do they do after an M98 finishes a run and there's no more scheduled ones in the opposite direction after that? Does it go all the way back to whatever depot it's out of or do they make it into an M1/2/3/4 or a crosstown before that?

 

Here's what I would do...revive the X90 but reduce frequency to operate between 12-15 minutes at its busiest, rather than 10 minutes, make it start slightly later and end slightly earlier than it used to, and last but not least, give the line standard suburban-seated buses, provided that the MTA invests some money into sprucing up the older local buses and taking out the seats from the MCIs that are ready to be retired and putting them into the older fleet. A line like the X90 does not need MCIs, and that kinda contributed to its downfall in some way.

[Mysterious2train]

Maybe you could meet the halfway with your M17 idea

[checkmatechamp13]

I think X90 can become open-door run LTD stop on york then a few stops to make transfers with other express buses like 2nd at 57th for queens bound ones and 120th or something for all other BXM lines except 3 and 4 which no one likes. X90 should use the routing you suggested and go express from 63rd street to lower manhattan then interline with a BM rte like 1 or 3 at off peak at rush it stays put due to traffic. Nice ideas I like.

 

As Gorgor would say, how does making it into a limited save money for the MTA?

 

It's an unmarked bus. I also agree with you cutting the X90 was not a good idea on the MTA's part. To this day I don't know why they cut the X90.

 

As my Political Science professor would say, "It's all about the Benjamins, baby".

 

As my mother would say "It's because they can".

 

I agree that the X90 should be brought back because while you have alternatives they are not good ones. However, some of these folks have no alternatives because they don't even have a subway nearby and some areas even lack decent local bus service, so the express bus is their lifeline.

 

If that's the case, then just add some local service.

 

Lack of local service is no reason to add express service. The fact that they have a long, uncomfortable commute (by uncomfortable, I mean there's a transfer halfway through, or there is excessive crowding for a long period of time) is a reason to do so.

 

Cut the X90 back to running every 15-20 minutes and have it so that an express bus that's schedule to arrive at its terminus in Midtown should start its X90 run 30 minutes from then, so that there's room to make up time if there's any delays on the way. And if there's ever extreme delays and there's physically no express bus that can make a certain run then as a last resort change an M31 into an X90 and send it down. At least that wouldn't be as bad as missing a run.

 

Considering the frequencies of all of the BM buses, there's guaranteed to be a run that can make the trip, so there's no need to send an M31 down as an X90.

 

I see your point, though.

 

lol.... I don't see BM express bus riders buying that at all.

 

You're saying it's going to take 45 minutes just to travel 30 blocks from the UES down to East Midtown?

 

1)We still talkin about interlining express buses out of different divisions......

 

2) The fact that the x90 was eliminated is not our problem.... We aint open to sacrificing commuting time, or having even longer waits for buses, just to facilitate you guys..... So Deal with it.

 

1) Then just have them run out of the same division. The X25 didn't run anywhere near Brooklyn, but it was interlined with the X29 out of UP.

 

2) He's creating a very large time cushion. There's no way it'll take 45 minutes to deadhead down from 91st Street to 57th Street so the BM buses (or whatever he's going to use) have no chance of being delayed.

 

Riverdale Express Buses Schedule - Is there really a need to an express bus from Riverdale to Manhattan every 15 minutes off peak? And don't even give me that "oh well one goes to the West Side and the other the East Side" because every other neighborhood in the Bronx with an express bus only has one that goes down 5th Avenue, but what makes Riverdale so special that they need one going down 7th, 5th (rush hours only), and Lexington??

 

The X1 in Staten Island only runs every hour after 5:00, and they don't even have the ability to do a subway + bus combo.

 

The reason is because a private company originally ran the service, and apparently there was enough demand for 2 services. Then again, the service might not have been as frequent under the private company.

 

And X1 riders do have the ability to do a bus-subway commute: The S79-. Obviously, it's not a realistic option, but technically it is possible.

 

As for Riverdale, they fight for their express bus service and they have the longest commutes out of anyone in the Bronx, as they are in the most northern portion of the borough. You should go to Riverdale and see the amount of co-ops and condos. Money talks, as some of these folks move there from Manhattan; some from your neck of the woods... The folks up there have long commutes (from personal experience), and they do indeed use their express buses, as they can afford them. As a future Riverdale resident, I fully support all express bus service that we have and yes we do need all of it.

 

 

What are you talking about? City Island residents have much longer commutes (and they don't even have full-time express service), as does Throgs Neck. The runtime of all routes going to the northern Bronx is more or less the same (1 hour) as the time for Riverdale riders.

 

I understand where some of the ideas in this thread are coming from but they don't seem practical. What upper east residents need to do is go back to fighting the MTA tooth and nail (this time). They need to propose an idea like this:

 

• Bring back the full X90 service.

• Have it run from 6:45 to 8:15AM

• And 4:30 to 6:00 PM

• Have it run with 20 min. head ways in the AM hours with the last bus coming 10 minutes earlier.

• The P.M runs would have 15min headways.

 

 

 

That's what Gorgor's pretty much proposing, except that he wants the MTA to save even more money by interlining.

 

If you think about it, the MTA could actually make money by restoring the X90 and they still don't want to do it.

 

Where did I say that? I'll tell you the truth though, the ridership base of the x90 was a group of elitist snobs, and you've made it clear through your comments that you are precisely one of them. So no, I don't play off stereotypes, I just call it like I see it, and you just make it easy.

 

 

So what? There are plenty of elitist snobs on other express routes and even some local routes. The fact is that this would cost the MTA very little money, or even generate revenue and they still don't want to do it.

 

And walking is a lot harder than it seems when it's 7 in the morning and you're not even half awake

 

I can definitely attest to that (unfortunately, I have no other option)

 

Here's what I would do...revive the X90 but reduce frequency to operate between 12-15 minutes at its busiest, rather than 10 minutes, make it start slightly later and end slightly earlier than it used to, and last but not least, give the line standard suburban-seated buses, provided that the MTA invests some money into sprucing up the older local buses and taking out the seats from the MCIs that are ready to be retired and putting them into the older fleet. A line like the X90 does not need MCIs, and that kinda contributed to its downfall in some way.

 

I don't see how MCIs contributed to its downfall. If it's interlined with another route, the costs will go down more than if they replaced the fleet with suburban buses.

[Gorgor]

Here's what I would do...revive the X90 but reduce frequency to operate between 12-15 minutes at its busiest, rather than 10 minutes, make it start slightly later and end slightly earlier than it used to, and last but not least, give the line standard suburban-seated buses, provided that the MTA invests some money into sprucing up the older local buses and taking out the seats from the MCIs that are ready to be retired and putting them into the older fleet. A line like the X90 does not need MCIs, and that kinda contributed to its downfall in some way.

 

Exactly! Service was way too frequent on it and I'd assume that the later buses carried barely any passengers... who works on Wall Street and is allowed to get in after 10:30?? I also noticed that it was much faster unloading with the standard suburban buses as opposed to the MCIs. It feels so long ago since I've rode in one of those suburban buses, but they had a back door right? They also felt like they had much better acceleration.

 

Maybe you could meet the halfway with your M17 idea

 

Haha that was one of those wacky ideas, but they'd need to use suburban seating because that would be the bumpiest ride ever going down the FDR at 40mph. Even if they just extended the M15 SBS to the WFC then I might take that home instead if it's really late sometimes, plus it would provide a connection between the WTF/Battery Park City and Water Street (I guess sort of like the old M9).

[checkmatechamp13]

Haha that was one of those wacky ideas, but they'd need to use suburban seating because that would be the bumpiest ride ever going down the FDR at 40mph. Even if they just extended the M15 SBS to the WFC then I might take that home instead if it's really late sometimes, plus it would provide a connection between the WTF/Battery Park City and Water Street (I guess sort of like the old M9).

 

That's a good point. If every other M15 (either local or +SBS+) were extended to the WFC during rush hours, it would definitely help. I'm sure there are some SI riders coming from the ferry who could also benefit from better service to Battery Park City.

 

But as I've said above, the X90 could've made money if it were interlined with another route. Even with all of the deadheading and too-frequent service, it still was barely over $8 per passenger to operate.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[DanTheTransitMan]

Could you guys enlighten me on how X90 riders were elitist?

[B35 via Church]

What I was just trying to say is if a bus is in Manhattan anyways and needs to deadhead back to Brooklyn via the tunnel, why not just sent it up and become an X90? If the MTA actually thought out how they could increase revenue for a second rather than just care about cutting expenses then they could measure out the revenue from whatever BM route + X90 minus operating costs, and that combo might even make a profit.

 

Just curious, but what do they do after an M98 finishes a run and there's no more scheduled ones in the opposite direction after that? Does it go all the way back to whatever depot it's out of or do they make it into an M1/2/3/4 or a crosstown before that?

increasing revenue?

 

Last time I checked, the MTA was a public agency.... They should stop tinkering with bus service across the board (by that I mean, across the 5 boroughs) while looking for ways to cut costs... The MTA isn't exactly a monopoly per se, but when it comes to public transportation, the millions of people in this city WILL flock to the MTA.... Increasing revenue is not the issue, fam.... They are not broke as they claim... The only thing I'm concerned about them "increasing" is the linings of their frickin pockets....

 

...and by having routes interlining with each other, you are supporting that very thing, whether you see it or not, whether you care or not.... all because they cut the x90....

 

Really dude.... really ??

 

Looking for shortcuts isn't gonna bring the route back.... x90 needs to be revived, it needs to be its own route, and it should run out of a manhattan based depot (as to not further piss you guys off).... We get it, it was an unjust cut....

 

 

 

As for the 2nd part of your post... I've never heard of (or seen) M98's turning into M4's @ Cabrini blvd, nor into any other route down there by hunter college.... M98 is out of Quill btw.....

 

 

 

 

 

1) Then just have them run out of the same division. The X25 didn't run anywhere near Brooklyn, but it was interlined with the X29 out of UP.

 

2) He's creating a very large time cushion. There's no way it'll take 45 minutes to deadhead down from 91st Street to 57th Street so the BM buses (or whatever he's going to use) have no chance of being delayed.

 

1) Yeah, but the x25 ran out of Ulmer Park though... the way you make that point, it's as if you're conveying that the x25 came out of a totally separate depot....

 

The x25 having been interlined w/ the x29, with those physical buses having came from UP, yielded no complaints b/c the x25 did not have a solid riderbase... the x90 did.....

 

x25 was a (antiquated, IMO) commuter route (RR/subway to commercial areas)....

x90 actually served a specific group of residents (residents to commercial areas... like every other express route).....

 

So, ya can't really compare the x25 to the x90 in this particular discussion.....

 

 

2) I don't care how large a time gap it'd be..... That doesn't mean you start interlining service all over the place.... There are more than enough band-aid solutions taking place with the MTA, as far as surface transit is concerned.....

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Gorgor]

Could you guys enlighten me on how X90 riders were elitist?

 

Because we were able to afford an extra $3.25 each way instead of taking the subway. Even though we live in Manhattan our nearest subway station is about 3/4 of a mile away. So yes, because we felt that it wasn't worth it to walk that much one way just to save $3.25 we are considered elitists who should all burn in hell.

 

Most X27/X37 riders live closer to the train than we live to the train, and to get to Wall Street we have to transfer to a , and then it's another 1/2 mile walk if you're going to the World Financial Center like I am.

 

So I am considered an elitist because I'd rather spend $5.50 and have literally no walking instead of paying $2.25 and walking 1.25 miles.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Earlier when I was at Woodhaven, I saw a QM6 towards midtown go straight on Queens Blvd without turning onto the LIE. There were people in that bus I can tell you

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Gorgor]

No, you're considered an elitist because you just made that idiotic post, to go in your library of foot in mouth comments. Really? The rest of us "couldn't afford" the x90? It was cause we were all cheap ba$tards who couldn't find an extra $3.25 in nickels, yeah? That must of been it.

 

Where did I say that? And what's with your beef with Upper East Siders... I can clearly see you already have an extremely huge bias and I'd like to know why. The way you're talking makes it seem like we were taking this extremely overpriced expensive service, but that's what thousands of Staten Islanders do every single day and don't think of it anything like that. They just think of it as the price they need to pay for transportation, as I got used to paying $11 a day for transportation and wouldn't even think of it.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Gorgor]

You said, and I quote, "Because we were able to afford an extra $3.25 each way ... we are considered elitists." And I'm telling you that you know what, all of us can afford that extra $3.25 so before you go thinking that you x90 riders were more financially empowered than the rest of us you can hold that right there. It wasn't a matter of affording, it was a matter of choice. Not enough of you made that choice, and so you have no x90 any more. Simple as that. My beef is with types like you who won't drop that single bus, and maybe ridiculous claims that you were the only ones who could afford it.

 

By afford I also mean that we're willing to pay that much for such a service. So you're saying that anyone who uses the word afford is an elitist? I can afford to buy a bottle of coke for $3 in Central Park, does that make me an elitist also? I can also afford to spend $15 on Japanese food for lunch, am I an elitist because of that also?

 

You may want to check the definition of elitist. I don't look down on those who take the subway, nor do I feel any higher up because I took a bus. Maybe when it would rain I'd be thinking "hehe I don't have to make the 1/2 mile+ walk to the subway like those who don't work downtown."

 

Or is your definition of elitist anyone who pays more than they need to for a service that they can get for cheaper? If that's your case then how about you go tell that to all the people who line up at 79th and York for a 15 minute cab ride down to Wall Street for $6, or those who take those unmarked vans from 85th? Are they elitists because they pay $3.75 more for something that takes literally 1/3 the amount of time? No, they're just being smart because to them time is money, and an extra 30 minutes isn't worth saying $3.75 over, just like saving over a mile of walking was worth $3.25 extra for me.

 

 

And please, when you make your next post clearly state what your definition of an elitist is at the beginning of your post.

[qjtransitmaster]

LORD what have I started???? Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut about X90. Ohh and gorgor I found out that it's impossible to interline X90 with a BM rte outside rush hour due to route structure. Only downtown rush trips can interline (sort of) as a side effect service becomes bidirectional. BM riders will be largely unaffected as NOT all runs will do that only 3 or 4 to test feasibility. The only reason why BXM18 with X90 may work as it will decrease travel time for riverdale folk heading downtown since the line will use FDR and bypass 5th ave gridlock And will be able to travel at highway speeds from 63rd southward. Plus since the line will have stops in the upper 120s at 3rd and 2nd aves Other BXM riders maintain their connections while facing the possibility of a faster trip and a new ridership group may materialize as a result. Maybe some BX ppl work in yorkville this will benefit em. Due to side effect Brooklyn ppl can benefit as effect of interlining who knows maybe ppl work there and live in bk. If BXM18 won't work then let X90 stay in manhattan at upper 120s to have connection with BXM lines.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You and Gorgor are waiting for me to say that so you can jump on me, but the reality is I've said nothing over the sort. The reality is, the ridership of the x90 were a group of elitists and that's part of the reason they won't accept the SBS as an alternative, because they won't take anything less than an express bus.

 

You've already said it repeatedly, and the fact that they are snobs according to you has nothing to do with whether or not the X90 should run. It was the that said that the M15SBS was the replacement of the X90, therefore the M15SBS should run to the WFC, otherwise it is not a true replacement.

 

 

We have crowding because people like you vote for Republican politicians (GIULIANI) who cut the budget to the point where service only breaks even if the bus is crushloaded. You can't vote these jerks into office, watch them slash the funding, and then criticize the MTA for not having impeccable service with non-crowded buses. A slight detail you forgot to include.

 

I didn't include it because I've never voted for Giuliani so you can go sit down with that nonsense, and for the record I'm an Independent. You know you are something. We are talking about a friggin route, and you have to go into class and political affiliation, which have nothing to do with whether or not the route should exist. The existence of the route should be determined on demand and ridership and there is enough ridership to keep the route, period. All of the other BS that you're including is immaterial. Since you want to talk about politicians, the Democrats haven't done much better in terms of keeping funding for transit so spare me with that crappola and go look in your own backyard before you go trying to throw stones.

 

You just have an issue with the X90 because you have an issue with affluent people and you can try to justify your rhetoric however you please, but I see right through it. Otherwise, there would be no need for you to bring up class and politics when talking about a bus route.

 

 

And no, it does not need to directly replicate the x90, because it needs to serve a greater base of people. As the riders of the x90 proved, they weren't willing enough to step up and keep their bus, so they now have a service which applies to them and a larger group of people, allowing the MTA to avoid huge losses.

 

For your information, the WFC has a good base of folks that need the service, so I don't know where you're coming up with that from. I know because I do use bus service over there. You just want to come up with anything to spite these people because they're of an upperclass and I'm going to call you out on it. People are allowed to be snobs if they so please. It's called "freedom". That does not justify what type of the service they should get, whether you like it or not. That's like saying certain folks shouldn't get service because they're poor and I know you wouldn't support that, so cut the crap already because you're doing the exact same thing and you think you can get away with it because these people are affluent.

 

 

So what? So nothing. I'm just saying, that's who rode that bus and that's why they won't accept the SBS as an alternative. And generate revenue? Not so much.

 

Yeah, so what... They won't accept it as an alternative because it isn't an alternative. The fact of the matter is unless the M15SBS is as fast as the X90 (which it isn't) and goes where the X90 went (which it doesn't), it isn't an alternative.

 

You're saying it's going to take 45 minutes just to travel 30 blocks from the UES down to East Midtown?

 

Oh stop putting words in my mouth. You quote what I said which says nothing what you're asking, so re-read what you quoted and that should answer your question. Since it isn't clear, I said that BM riders won't accept that set up period. Now let's leave it at that and stop adding things that I didn't say. The point is they don't want their buses interlined under NO circumstance, period.

 

What are you talking about? City Island residents have much longer commutes (and they don't even have full-time express service), as does Throgs Neck. The runtime of all routes going to the northern Bronx is more or less the same (1 hour) as the time for Riverdale riders.

 

What are you talking about? They don't have their own designated express bus. Second, Riverdale is the far most northern point of the Bronx, so based on that and the fact that City Island doesn't have their own designated express bus line, Riverdale has the furthest commute.

 

 

I don't see how MCIs contributed to its downfall. If it's interlined with another route, the costs will go down more than if they replaced the fleet with suburban buses.

 

I don't either. This is just pure ignorance. It's been discussed over and over again that MCIs do not have uber maintenance costs and are fuel efficient, but some folks refuse to accept that. If the costs of MCIs are so high, then the question would be why did the move towards commuter buses to begin with?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LORD what have I started???? Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut about X90. Ohh and gorgor I found out that it's impossible to interline X90 with a BM rte outside rush hour due to route structure. Only downtown rush trips can interline (sort of) as a side effect service becomes bidirectional. BM riders will be largely unaffected as NOT all runs will do that only 3 or 4 to test feasibility. The only reason why BXM18 with X90 may work as it will decrease travel time for riverdale folk heading downtown since the line will use FDR and bypass 5th ave gridlock And will be able to travel at highway speeds from 63rd southward. Plus since the line will have stops in the upper 120s at 3rd and 2nd aves Other BXM riders maintain their connections while facing the possibility of a faster trip and a new ridership group may materialize as a result. Maybe some BX ppl work in yorkville this will benefit em. Due to side effect Brooklyn ppl can benefit as effect of interlining who knows maybe ppl work there and live in bk. If BXM18 won't work then let X90 stay in manhattan at upper 120s to have connection with BXM lines.

 

How is moving the BxM18 off of 5th Avenue supposed to help folks in Riverdale when many of them work on and around 5th Avenue??? If the BxM18 wasn't feasible running down 5th Avenue then it would've been moved a long time ago. Moving the BxM18 would force me to have to take the BxM1 or BxM2 or walk further over to the BxM3 which makes far more stops up in the Bronx and would make my commute longer, not shorter. Just because a bus gets stuck in traffic occasionally doesn't mean that it automatically needs to be re-routed. For your information, we give ourselves extra time for delays for that reason. Delays happen and they happen on the subway, MetroNorth, the LIRR and so on. I guess we should build new subway and commuter tracks because trains are delayed. Very logical idea.

 

By afford I also mean that we're willing to pay that much for such a service. So you're saying that anyone who uses the word afford is an elitist? I can afford to buy a bottle of coke for $3 in Central Park, does that make me an elitist also? I can also afford to spend $15 on Japanese food for lunch, am I an elitist because of that also?

 

You may want to check the definition of elitist. I don't look down on those who take the subway, nor do I feel any higher up because I took a bus. Maybe when it would rain I'd be thinking "hehe I don't have to make the 1/2 mile+ walk to the subway like those who don't work downtown."

 

Or is your definition of elitist anyone who pays more than they need to for a service that they can get for cheaper? If that's your case then how about you go tell that to all the people who line up at 79th and York for a 15 minute cab ride down to Wall Street for $6, or those who take those unmarked vans from 85th? Are they elitists because they pay $3.75 more for something that takes literally 1/3 the amount of time? No, they're just being smart because to them time is money, and an extra 30 minutes isn't worth saying $3.75 over, just like saving over a mile of walking was worth $3.25 extra for me.

 

 

And please, when you make your next post clearly state what your definition of an elitist is at the beginning of your post.

 

And even if you were an elitist, it still has nothing to do with providing service. Hell I'm sure that there are elitists that ride the subways too, so why don't we remove their service since they're elitists. I mean really, totally ridiculous.

[Gorgor]

And even if you were an elitist, it still has nothing to do with providing service. Hell I'm sure that there are elitists that ride the subways too, so why don't we remove their service since they're elitists. I mean really, totally ridiculous.

 

Yes, exactly what I've been trying to say also. If anything it would mean we'd be willing to pay anything within reason for any service to separate ourselves from the general public on the subway.

[B35 via Church]

What are you talking about? City Island residents have much longer commutes (and they don't even have full-time express service), as does Throgs Neck. The runtime of all routes going to the northern Bronx is more or less the same (1 hour) as the time for Riverdale riders.

 

yeh, it is a PITA to get to city island.... I'll also agree that Riverdalians commutes (on the exp. bus, I'm referring to) is no worse than that of the other north-south Bx expresses.... In sayin that though, Throgs Neck is on par w/ that of Riverdale also.....

 

 

What are you talking about? They don't have their own designated express bus. Second, Riverdale is the far most northern point of the Bronx, so based on that and the fact that City Island doesn't have their own designated express bus line, Riverdale has the furthest commute.

 

You've been bigging up Riverdale way too hard as of late.... and as much as people may disagree with you in other discussions, at least your posts were logical....

 

This one here though, the logic is flawed.....

Riverdale has the furthest commute b/c it's the most northern point of the bronx (which isn't true, but I'll let that slide for a minute), and b/c city islanders don't have their own designated express bus ???

[checkmatechamp13]

1) LORD what have I started????

 

2) Ohh and gorgor I found out that it's impossible to interline X90 with a BM rte outside rush hour due to route structure. Only downtown rush trips can interline (sort of) as a side effect service becomes bidirectional.

 

3) The only reason why BXM18 with X90 may work as it will decrease travel time for riverdale folk heading downtown since the line will use FDR and bypass 5th ave gridlock And will be able to travel at highway speeds from 63rd southward.

 

1) He's had this idea before. You didn't start anything.

 

2) I didn't realize the X90 ever operated outside of rush hours anyway.

 

3) You have a point there except that the BxM18 might already be full with people from Riverdale, and also if you move it away from 5th Avenue, you're making it harder for people from the other Bronx express routes to get to Lower Manhattan (since they can no longer transfer at 23rd Street, unless the transfer point is moved further north, but then you might have people who are afraid to transfer in that neighborhood)

 

1) For your information, the WFC has a good base of folks that need the service, so I don't know where you're coming up with that from.

 

2) Oh stop putting words in my mouth. You quote what I said which says nothing what you're asking, so re-read what you quoted and that should answer your question. Since it isn't clear, I said that BM riders won't accept that set up period. Now let's leave it at that and stop adding things that I didn't say. The point is they don't want their buses interlined under NO circumstance, period.

 

3) What are you talking about? They don't have their own designated express bus. Second, Riverdale is the far most northern point of the Bronx, so based on that and the fact that City Island doesn't have their own designated express bus line, Riverdale has the furthest commute.

 

 

1) If they had advertised it more, they probably would've gotten more riders. I'm sure there were many people along York Avenue who worked in Lower Manhattan who would've been willing to take the bus if they knew about it.

 

But like me and Gorgor have said, if they had cut the service levels in half, the cost to operate it would've been close to nothing (and that's without interlining it or anything). The X90 cost something like $8.13 per passenger to operate before it was eliminated, so if you cut the cost in half, it comes pretty close to making money (and it might even make money because the riders might not make any transfers like riders from other lines so)

 

2) You said "They're not going to buy that", which was in response to Gorgor saying that he would put in a large time cushion to prevent the buses from being delayed.

 

And how do you know that BM riders care about interlining? As long as their bus shows up on or close to schedule, they don't care whether it was interlined or not.

 

In any case, BM buses are MTA Bus and the X90 was NYCT, so it would have to be another route in the area (like an SI route or the X37/X38)

 

3) It is not the neighborhood in The Bronx that is the furthest north. Wakefield is, and Woodlawn and Eastchester are also pretty far north. The travel times from all of these neighborhoods to Midtown area around an hour, so Riverdale's commute times are the same as those in Wakefield, Woodlawn, and Eastchester.

 

Plus, you have to consider the commute times if there was no express bus service. Again, the travel time from all neighborhoods is more or less the same as Riverdale's. Woodlawn riders have to take a bus to reach the , and Wakefield riders have to deal with the slow train. Sure they can take Metro-North, but then again so can Riverdale riders.

 

How is moving the BxM18 off of 5th Avenue supposed to help folks in Riverdale when many of them work on and around 5th Avenue??? If the BxM18 wasn't feasible running down 5th Avenue then it would've been moved a long time ago. Moving the BxM18 would force me to have to take the BxM1 or BxM2 or walk further over to the BxM3 which makes far more stops up in the Bronx and would make my commute longer, not shorter. Just because a bus gets stuck in traffic occasionally doesn't mean that it automatically needs to be re-routed. For your information, we give ourselves extra time for delays for that reason. Delays happen and they happen on the subway, MetroNorth, the LIRR and so on. I guess we should build new subway and commuter tracks because trains are delayed. Very logical idea.

 

 

The BxM18 exists to serve Downtown riders, not riders along 5th Avenue. That's what the BxM1 and BxM3 are for (the BxM1 is only a couple of blocks away on Lexington Avenue).

 

And actually, extra tracks are being built with part of the reason being that trains are delayed. Look at the Main Line and Ronkonkoma Branches of the LIRR, and the ARC project for NJ Transit. Of course, part of the reason is plain capacity, but the fact that the tunnels are jammed to capacity definitely contributes to delays.