BrooklynBus Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share #101 Posted May 22, 2012 I personally find the current diversion that the B49 takes completely unnecessary. Before it went straight up Sheepshead Bay Rd and then around Avenue Z which accomplished the same purpose so why was it necessary to re-route that segment of the Northbound B49?? The MTA felt there were too many accients with buses going in two directions on Sheepshead Bay Road or there were too many conflicts at E 15 Street and accidents there so they changed the routes. I did not see their data. As usual we have to take the MTA's word for their decisions. 20 minutes indeed. I could have sworn I wrote that the B49 would no longer serve SB station if it looped via Nostrand to transfer to the B44 SBS. Maybe you did and maybe you didn't. It's not really important. I don't think you can just eliminate the diversion to Sheepshead Bay Station. You would be cutting the headway in half for people from Manhattan Beach to access a subway station. Also a few people take the bus southbound a few blocks to access the station. More important, you would be placing an extra load on the Brighton Beach Station and would have to add more B1 shuttles which cannot turn around until West 2nd Street and that costs money too. And how are 10 minutes being added if it follows the loop I described and makes no stops between E 14 or Ocean and Nostrand? Is there some traffic on Emmons or service road between Ocean and Nostrand that I do not know about? Most of the time there is little traffic, but of course there are exceptions. I don't think assuming 5 minutes from Ocean to Nostrand and five minutes back is assuming to much, even without stops. I think you have an unrealistic opinion of bus travel times when there are no stops. There are the traffic signals and speed limits and every time the bus will make a turn he will miss a signal. Even if it is 8 minutes and not 10, it is still too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted May 22, 2012 Share #102 Posted May 22, 2012 When Sen. Diane Savino was asked by a reporter why she voted to take away MTA funding when she was fighting for the return of express bus service, she quite honestly responded that she didn't realize at the time what she was voting for. At least she gave an honest answer. It's possible that Cymbrowitz and Colton fall into the same category but just wouldn't admit it. That of course does not excuse their actions. Of course it doesn't. We pay these people $79,500 per year plus $171 per diem to read bills before voting on them. I'm glad that Savino has the integrity to admit her mistakes, but I'm less concerned with the past than with the future. For better or for worse, the 2009 bill passed, and we've all seen the results. For those elected officials who realize that it was a mistake, what are they doing to solve the problem looking forward? How are they going to ensure that our transit system (and their transit system) is adequately and stably funded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 22, 2012 Share #103 Posted May 22, 2012 **Attention Readers--Important Announcement from BrooklynIRT** Those wishing to disprove my 'unrealistic' travel time estimates will have to show me some video or photo evidence or give me minute-by-minute, second-by-second, mile-by-mile (or fractions of miles), and/or bus stop-by-bus stop explanations to back up their estimates and/or disprove mine. Then we will be on the same page. In this case he who calls himself BrooklynBus is going to have to do that for the loop I described, which the B49 would do. And BrooklynBus, I could have sworn you yourself said on several occasions that the B49 should be routed away from SB station to make it easier on Ocean Ave thru riders. What were your other reasons again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share #104 Posted May 22, 2012 I would like to see half the B49s go straight without going to the station. I believe that was my B50 proposal on my website. But I don't think you can just remove all the buses. There woud just be too many going to Brighton Station. As it is you can have a hundred coming off the same train to get the B1. When I get a chance I'll try try driving the diversion at a leisurely pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 22, 2012 Share #105 Posted May 22, 2012 I am pleased to announce that Senator Golden's office has informed me that they too had representatives at the Town Hall meeting and will be joining Assemblymen Cymbrowitz and other representatives that were at the meeting in writing to the to push to restore some of the lost service in Southern Brooklyn. I have been in talks with their office about restoration of service to the B2, B31, B64 and X27 and X28, as well as the B4 and BM3 going back to May of 2011. The representative from Senator Golden's office did actually take down my complaints and took them back to Senator Golden's office, so in the meantime I will await the time in which a letter is officially drawn up and sent to the about these routes, as I was promised to receive a copy of the letter. I informed the representative from Senator Golden's office that I realize that immediate restoration was not possible and will take time, but it is my belief that we passengers have to be persistent in getting our service back and I am determined to get some of the BM3 Saturday service to Manhattan restored if not all of it and weekday service as well if possible. I will continue to be in talks with Senator Golden as are many residents of Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights about restoration of the X27 and X28 on the weekends as well. Both communities have been very vocal about that lost service to Senator Golden and we have faith that he'll find a way to get our express bus service back. As for the B4, I am not exactly sure what to expect, but I believe that the will restore some sort of service outside of rush hours to Sheepshead Bay. The goal is to get full restoration of the B4, so we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 22, 2012 Share #106 Posted May 22, 2012 I would like to see half the B49s go straight without going to the station. I believe that was my B50 proposal on my website. But I don't think you can just remove all the buses. There woud just be too many going to Brighton Station. As it is you can have a hundred coming off the same train to get the B1. When I get a chance I'll try try driving the diversion at a leisurely pace. People going to the subway can also take the B49 to E 14/Shore Pkwy and walk over the bridge to the Voorhies Ave entrance if the B49 goes up E 14 and then down the service road. If people want to get off the subway and take the B49 to Manhattan Beach then the south bound buses can operate via Ocean-Shore-Nostrand-Emmons-E 14-Shore-E 15-Emmons-West End to KCC. Again they would have to use the pedestrian bridge. You have to drive at a minimum speed of 25 mph along the diversion if you are going to record it, unless traffic/road conditions inhibit you. I do not expect you to go over 30 because I would not either and do not condone it. I should be able to figure out your average speed based on the time and distance you travel. Try to do it when traffic is or might be at its worst (rush hour). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 22, 2012 Share #107 Posted May 22, 2012 On the other hand they could just make a Ocean Ave SBS and/or a pedestrian bridge over the bay from KCC (or next to KCC) to Emmons to make it easier to get to the B44 SBS (running on Emmons, following the same route as the current B44) and this whole discussion about access to KCC would be moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 22, 2012 Share #108 Posted May 22, 2012 On the other hand they could just make a Ocean Ave SBS and/or a pedestrian bridge over the bay from KCC (or next to KCC) to Emmons to make it easier to get to the B44 SBS (running on Emmons, following the same route as the current B44) and this whole discussion about access to KCC would be moot. I have a feeling Manhattan Beach residents would oppose that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 22, 2012 Share #109 Posted May 22, 2012 I second that... Manhattan Beach folks have enough to deal with with the B49 and B1 in their area. Folks move down there to escape traffic and such not to have more of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted May 22, 2012 Share #110 Posted May 22, 2012 I am pleased to announce that Senator Golden's office has informed me that they too had representatives at the Town Hall meeting and will be joining Assemblymen Cymbrowitz and other representatives that were at the meeting in writing to the to push to restore some of the lost service in Southern Brooklyn. Rats, as I started reading that, I thought you were going to say that Golden and Cymbrowitz had found an ample, reliable source of funding for transit. It's a stable funding source that the MTA needs, not a letter. I have been in talks with their office about restoration of service to the B2, B31, B64 and X27 and X28, as well as the B4 and BM3 going back to May of 2011. The only cut to the X27 and X28 was on weekends, when the direct operating cost per rider was $8.71 and $15.47, respectively. I'd suggest that the funds that could be used to restore the X27 and X28 on weekends - should they become available - be instead used somewhere that they would be of greater benefit to more potential riders. (It's not like X27 or X28 riders are stranded on weekends - X27 riders can use the B16, B4, B9, or B64 to connect to the R train, and X28 riders can walk or use the B82, B3, B6, or B8 to connect to the D train.) Restoring those lightly used, inefficient services would do a disservice to bus and subway riders who would be missing out on potential service improvements elsewhere. I've asked you twice already about the BM3. When you used to ride it on Saturday afternoons before the span was cut back, how crowded were the 57-seat buses? Did they typically carry 50 riders? 40? 30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 22, 2012 Share #111 Posted May 22, 2012 I have a feeling Manhattan Beach residents would oppose that. The bridge or the SBS to KCC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 22, 2012 Share #112 Posted May 22, 2012 The bridge or the SBS to KCC? The bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knice1187 Posted May 23, 2012 Share #113 Posted May 23, 2012 I am pleased to announce that Senator Golden's office has informed me that they too had representatives at the Town Hall meeting and will be joining Assemblymen Cymbrowitz and other representatives that were at the meeting in writing to the to push to restore some of the lost service in Southern Brooklyn. I have been in talks with their office about restoration of service to the B2, B31, B64 and X27 and X28, as well as the B4 and BM3 going back to May of 2011. The representative from Senator Golden's office did actually take down my complaints and took them back to Senator Golden's office, so in the meantime I will await the time in which a letter is officially drawn up and sent to the about these routes, as I was promised to receive a copy of the letter. I informed the representative from Senator Golden's office that I realize that immediate restoration was not possible and will take time, but it is my belief that we passengers have to be persistent in getting our service back and I am determined to get some of the BM3 Saturday service to Manhattan restored if not all of it and weekday service as well if possible. I will continue to be in talks with Senator Golden as are many residents of Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights about restoration of the X27 and X28 on the weekends as well. Both communities have been very vocal about that lost service to Senator Golden and we have faith that he'll find a way to get our express bus service back. As for the B4, I am not exactly sure what to expect, but I believe that the will restore some sort of service outside of rush hours to Sheepshead Bay. The goal is to get full restoration of the B4, so we shall see. Good luck with trying to get them to restore service on the b2 and the b31. the hawk on the b31 is never coming back because you were lucky if you picked up 10 people. The b2 also didnt carry enough people on the weekend to justify service especially when you have the option of taking the b100 to the b9 or b41 or people could take the b31 to the b3 if the want to get to kings plaza. In my opinion those were two of the best cuts the mta actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 23, 2012 Share #114 Posted May 23, 2012 Good luck with trying to get them to restore service on the b2 and the b31. the hawk on the b31 is never coming back because you were lucky if you picked up 10 people. The b2 also didnt carry enough people on the weekend to justify service especially when you have the option of taking the b100 to the b9 or b41 or people could take the b31 to the b3 if the want to get to kings plaza. In my opinion those were two of the best cuts the mta actually did. Plus, for the B31, they said that it fell below the 45-rider threshold required to keep overnight service. There's no way you're going to convince the MTA to restore that, especially since from what everybody else has said, the few people who used it were along Avenue R. Plus, the B3 is about a mile away from the furthest point south in Gerritsen Beach, which isn't the worst thing in the world for overnight service (I mean, when I walk to the S46, I have to walk about 0.8 miles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 23, 2012 Share #115 Posted May 23, 2012 Good luck with trying to get them to restore service on the b2 and the b31. the hawk on the b31 is never coming back because you were lucky if you picked up 10 people. The b2 also didnt carry enough people on the weekend to justify service especially when you have the option of taking the b100 to the b9 or b41 or people could take the b31 to the b3 if the want to get to kings plaza. In my opinion those were two of the best cuts the mta actually did. Well 10 people or not, you don't leave an entire community without any transportation. You drive a bus so what do you care if folks are stranded? You get your pay check just the same. It is unacceptable and those people left stranded. Furthermore, having to make 2 connections for folks in Marine Park is not sitting well with them and I agree. The B2 can be made to run every 30 minutes on the weekends with short hours. Plus, for the B31, they said that it fell below the 45-rider threshold required to keep overnight service. There's no way you're going to convince the MTA to restore that, especially since from what everybody else has said, the few people who used it were along Avenue R. Plus, the B3 is about a mile away from the furthest point south in Gerritsen Beach, which isn't the worst thing in the world for overnight service (I mean, when I walk to the S46, I have to walk about 0.8 miles) You are so full of BS that it's not even funny. Here you are with plenty of service along Richmond Avenue and you're sitting here trying to convince folks to have a commuter bus like the S89 extended for the sole reason that you want more buses to be crowded even though it could inconvenience the main base of riders that it was created for and you've got the nerve to talk about what isn't so bad... Your community has plenty of bus service and don't go telling me about how far you have to walk because Staten Island is far more suburban than Brooklyn, so spare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knice1187 Posted May 23, 2012 Share #116 Posted May 23, 2012 Well 10 people or not, you don't leave an entire community without any transportation. You drive a bus so what do you care if folks are stranded? You get your pay check just the same. It is unacceptable and those people left stranded. Furthermore, having to make 2 connections for folks in Marine Park is not sitting well with them and I agree. The B2 can be made to run every 30 minutes on the weekends with short hours. what the hell do you mean what do I care if folks are stranded cause I drive a bus? I worked the last run on the b31 after they did the cuts and many other lines that dont have over night service and I would always leave late my lats couple trips to make sure I didnt leave anyone behind so dont give me none of that bs, you never stepped foot on my bus to see how I operate. Since those people were not using the service why waste money to keep providing it if eventually when things get better restore service else where like on the b45 where i think it was forty something people per night used the bus on average but it still got cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share #117 Posted May 23, 2012 On the other hand they could just make a Ocean Ave SBS and/or a pedestrian bridge over the bay from KCC (or next to KCC) to Emmons to make it easier to get to the B44 SBS (running on Emmons, following the same route as the current B44) and this whole discussion about access to KCC would be moot. A bridge will never happen. The Manhattan Beach community couldn't care less about making things easier for the College students. People going to the subway can also take the B49 to E 14/Shore Pkwy and walk over the bridge to the Voorhies Ave entrance if the B49 goes up E 14 and then down the service road. If people want to get off the subway and take the B49 to Manhattan Beach then the south bound buses can operate via Ocean-Shore-Nostrand-Emmons-E 14-Shore-E 15-Emmons-West End to KCC. Again they would have to use the pedestrian bridge. No one from Manhattan Beach will use that bridge. Few residents of Manhattan Beach even use the buses. You could probably get away with eliminating the B49 from stopping at the station with little protest. But if you try to add a route even if it is the B44 SBS for a few trips at 8 and at 3, you can expect a loud outcry. They do not want more buses or another route in Manhattan Beach. They don't give a damn about the college kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 23, 2012 Share #118 Posted May 23, 2012 You are so full of BS that it's not even funny. Here you are with plenty of service along Richmond Avenue and you're sitting here trying to convince folks to have a commuter bus like the S89 extended for the sole reason that you want more buses to be crowded even though it could inconvenience the main base of riders that it was created for and you've got the nerve to talk about what isn't so bad... Your community has plenty of bus service and don't go telling me about how far you have to walk because Staten Island is far more suburban than Brooklyn, so spare me. When the hell did I ask for it to be extended????? And yes, having empty S89s and crowded S44s & S59s for no reason is perfect, right? And a mile walk is a mile walk. It doesn't matter where it is. The fact of the matter is that I have a longer walk to reach the bus than anybody in Gerritsen Beach, just for the closest bus. If I'm going to Mariners' Harbor or something (which is often) and need the S46, then I'm walking just as far as those overnight B31 riders, so cut the crap. what the hell do you mean what do I care if folks are stranded cause I drive a bus? I worked the last run on the b31 after they did the cuts and many other lines that dont have over night service and I would always leave late my lats couple trips to make sure I didnt leave anyone behind so dont give me none of that bs, you never stepped foot on my bus to see how I operate. Since those people were not using the service why waste money to keep providing it if eventually when things get better restore service else where like on the b45 where i think it was forty something people per night used the bus on average but it still got cut. It was only a couple of more people than the B31: 41 people vs. 36 people (at least according to their counts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 23, 2012 Share #119 Posted May 23, 2012 So BrooklynBus, at which stops do bunches of subway-bound B49 riders south of SB station board the B49, other than KCC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 23, 2012 Share #120 Posted May 23, 2012 The Manhattan Beach community couldn't care less about making things easier for the College students. Few residents of Manhattan Beach even use the buses...... ....They do not want more buses or another route in Manhattan Beach. They don't give a damn about the college kids. Gotta agree with this..... Y'all want the spooks out of your neigborhood as quick as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share #121 Posted May 23, 2012 Brooklyn IRT: Don't understand your question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 23, 2012 Share #122 Posted May 23, 2012 First you said the B49 should not be diverted from SB station because the B1 already gets hammered at Brighton Beach (BB) station. Then you said if the B49 were diverted from SB station there would be little protest. I was trying to put the two statements together. After thinking it over I now assume that you meant there would be little protest from Manhattan Beach (MB) residents if the B49 were diverted from SB station, and that the B1 currently gets hammered by KCC students at BB station. I find this obvious though. Just documenting my train of thought. You also said most MB residents barely use the buses and nobody from MB would use the bridge over the Belt Pkwy to reach SB station. But KCC students would use the Belt Pkwy bridge, provided MTA had proper signage and notification indicating that the B49 stops right there by Shore Pkwy/E 14. The B49 buses would probably spend less time going out of their way than they currently do if they followed my diversion and in the process would serve both KCC students going to/from the subway and students going to/from the B44 [sBS], as well as any other persons willing to use the Belt Pkwy bridge to get to/from the subway and any others who want the B44 [sBS]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 23, 2012 Share #123 Posted May 23, 2012 I asked you this on Sheepshead Bites, but you didn't reply there: How crowded were those late afternoon and early evening BM3's? Out of the 57 seats on each bus, how many were typically occupied? 50? 40? 30? And just so you know, the Q has had only minor weekend service changes the month or two. This weekend, northbound trains are bypassing Neck and U. Otherwise, service is normal. During the week they get good usage overall. On Saturdays they can get good usage as well. They had weekend numbers for the BM3 and they weren't terrible by any means. I see no point in having buses deadhead to the city not picking up anyone when they are making return trips back to Sheepshead Bay, so there is no point in cutting service down to 15:20 on Saturday afternoons. As for the train after months of inconvenience with station rehabs, it is unacceptable to still have trains bypassing these stations, further inconveniencing passengers. They should've done track work with the rehab of these stations simultaneously... Utterly ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lance Posted May 23, 2012 Share #124 Posted May 23, 2012 I don't believe it was possible to rehab both the stations and the tracks at the same time. If I recall correctly, the temp platforms were on the tracks that are now being fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 23, 2012 Share #125 Posted May 23, 2012 The only cut to the X27 and X28 was on weekends, when the direct operating cost per rider was $8.71 and $15.47, respectively. I'd suggest that the funds that could be used to restore the X27 and X28 on weekends - should they become available - be instead used somewhere that they would be of greater benefit to more potential riders. (It's not like X27 or X28 riders are stranded on weekends - X27 riders can use the B16, B4, B9, or B64 to connect to the R train, and X28 riders can walk or use the B82, B3, B6, or B8 to connect to the D train.) Restoring those lightly used, inefficient services would do a disservice to bus and subway riders who would be missing out on potential service improvements elsewhere. I've asked you twice already about the BM3. When you used to ride it on Saturday afternoons before the span was cut back, how crowded were the 57-seat buses? Did they typically carry 50 riders? 40? 30? The X28 I can agree with you, but the X27 was actually pretty efficient. If you think about it, the farebox recovery ratio is around 50% or so (the average fare paid on the weekends for express buses was $3.99, according to the MTA. Of course, they didn't break it down by express bus route, but it's in the ballpark of 50%) You could argue that the X27 riders are receiving a $4-$5 subsidy, but percentage-wise, it's not too bad. For the BM3, you know the website capntransit.blogspot.com? Well, he made a spreadsheet of the data the MTA released (good thing, too, because the link to the data is now broken). Here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdHd4QkhLRF92cURWNWdSbzNfSjJwWWc&hl=en#gid=1 The BM3 got about 7 riders per trip back when the cuts were being proposed and had a cost of $18.92 per passenger (not no, VG8, I'm not taking the stats as the Gospel. Only as a guide.) The thing is that the city supposedly has a blank check agreement, but apparently that's coming to an end or else they wouldn't have bothered to make any cuts. In any case, the X28 performed better than any of the BM routes on the weekends (and that's including the presumably less efficient Sunday service) Personally, what I would do is bring back weekend service on the X27 (maybe reduce it hourly headways) and I'd eliminate Saturday service on the BM2, BM3, & BM4, and use the resources to beef up the BM1 to run on Sundays and also run every 30 minutes, to provide eastern Brooklyn with one good express route. Personally, I'd run some kind of local bus along Avenue K, but it looks like BM1 riders would still have the hardest time reaching the subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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