Town Hall Meeting on May 17th to Restore the B4

[BrooklynBus]

That's why I'd reroute the B44 over Avenue Z (and leave Plumb Beach served by the +SBS+) and have it serve the train station, and then reroute the B36 to Knapp Street. Emmons Avenue gets extra service, Avenue Z riders get more reliable service (since they don't have buses coming all the way from Coney Island, and aside from that, service would be more frequent than the B36 anyway), and you have your fast east-west route (B4) and the route to serve everybody going shopping (B36)

 

 

 

There are several problems with your proposal. Rerouting the B36 to Knapp deprives riders getting on at Ave W and Ave X of access to the Sheepshead Bay Station with one bus. People from near Ave Y would have one more block to walk to Avenue Z. Also, sending only the B44SBS to Knapp would require the installation of many more pre-payment kiosks adding to the costs. See my proposals Tuesday and Wednesday in Sheepshead Bites. The introduction appears today.

[checkmatechamp13]

Can't locate my map now, but why would you think those routes ran part-time? If it was because they are portrayed in a dashed line, that did not mean part-time service. Since only four colors were used instead of five, some routes used a dashed line to improve clarity on the map. That's all it meant. There was no refernce to service.

 

 

Makes sense.

 

There are several problems with your proposal. Rerouting the B36 to Knapp deprives riders getting on at Ave W and Ave X of access to the Sheepshead Bay Station with one bus. People from near Ave Y would have one more block to walk to Avenue Z. Also, sending only the B44SBS to Knapp would require the installation of many more pre-payment kiosks adding to the costs. See my proposals Tuesday and Wednesday in Sheepshead Bites. The introduction appears today.

 

 

You would just have to have one at Avenue Z, and one at Emmons. For the local stops, they could use the B4/B36 and take it to the +SBS+ (and yes, I agree that they should allow an extra transfer)

 

For those on Nostrand, they'd take the B44 local to the subway (like I said, I'd have it terminate somewhere else with more space, like CI Hospital).

[B35 via Church]

I understand your B44 loop and it is actually something I was thinking of myself. Southbound buses would operate via Nostrand, Shore Pkwy Service Rd South, Knapp, Emmons, and either Ocean and "Z" or just Sheepshead Bay Rd. Maybe even have it terminate at CI hospital since Sheepshead Bay station is not a good place to terminate a bus route, although it sounds like B35 does not want anything going anywhere near Sheepshead Bay station (I sorta do not blame him) unless it absolutely has to because of the narrow streets. Anyway the northbound buses would operate via "Z" and Ocean or just Sheepshead Bay Rd, and then Shore Pkwy Service Rd South, Knapp, Emmons, Nostrand, and head back up north.

 

But again this is getting into "super-routes," which B35 is not a fan of. I generally do not oppose so-called super-routes as vehemently as he does, but this particular B44 to Sheepshead Bay station is not quite up to par in my book because it duplicates the B4.

 

On the other hand it may not be a bad idea to incorporate the old B21 into the B44 by sending the B44 to Kingsborough Community College via Shore Pkwy/Knapp St/Emmons/West End/Oriental, southbound. Northbound via Oriental/West End/Emmons/Ocean/Shore Pkwy/Knapp/Emmons/Nostrand. Or the B44 could be sent to Brighton Beach Ave via the same Plumb Beach loop I described. These are all just possibilities; I am not 100% sure they should be carried out because they might lead to more reliability issues with the B44, even after SBS comes. I still think my preference is to just terminate the B44SBS at Knapp (Plumb Beach must be served by the SBS *any* way you cut it) and most likely terminate the B44 local at "X" or "Z", with "Z" being added as a SBS stop if and only if it does not cause SBS buses to miss more green signals than they would if "Z" were not a stop.

 

lmao.... the B44 from WBP to CI Hospital via av Z is the quintessential definition of what I coin/call a "superroute"... Having the B44 pan over to sheepshead subway would also qualify as a superroute - Since the idea is to cram the majority of the riders in the given area in question (sheepshead bay, in this case) onto the prevalent bus in the area, to a major destination in that same area, with that route already racking up mileage & having to take on other major destinations/xfer points along its current route.... a route isn't any less of a superroute if it parallels another route & it takes on the behavior I described in the prior statement.... I believe in having bus routes work together in a network.... When it comes to routes, I don't believe in the "all for one, and one for all" mentality.... There has to be some cutoff point....

 

Like I said in the chat/exchange we had yesterday, I find it funny that you have some folks that are okay w/ the removal of the LTD (soon to be SBS) 44 off NY av & onto rogers... but justify/side with a diversion of the route on the southern end towards sheepshead subway.... There's no consistency w/ the two thought processes.....

 

I know you're just throwing those suggestions in that last paragraph for discussion's sake, but the B44 to KCC just isn't warranted; it would make the route too wieldy.... even the B44 to sheepshead subway idea I despise makes more sense than that....

 

From what I'm gathering, I'm getting the sense that some may feel that there's too much service on the B44 to Knapp..... What I'm thinkin to myself is, are ppl. forgetting all the B44's that end at Av U. or Av X??? To me, what's being implied is that the B44 has too much LTD service, b/c those are the buses that travel the full distance (or, from flushing av to knapp st)....

[B35 via Church]

Reading posts and using the route are two different things... I've used the B4 for YEARS to and from Sheepshead Bay and to and from Bay Ridge as well. If they just had the damn buses come at the times they are scheduled there would be more ridership. I've said it a gazillion times... There was nothing wrong with the route aside from it being MIA and coming whenever it wanted. Furthermore, where else are B36 riders supposed to get off at aside from along Avenue Z in Sheepshead Bay??

lol @ the first sentence.... I'm sayin though.....

 

I gotta be honest..... This sudden fixation w/ wanting to move the B44 to sheepshead subway & tweaking everything else in the area to justify that is starting to bug me..... I just got through looking at BrooklynBus' recent blogpost (check it out if you haven't already).... Anyway, after I saw this on the blog:

 

"I developed a set of bus route proposals, including a few routing changes, some extensions, one new route, and elimination of another."

 

I just threw my hands up & continued to finish reading the thing.....

 

BrooklynIRT, you know what we spoke about yesterday..... Can I get a "I told you so" !!

 

 

For the love of God!!! You and the others with this bloody subway obsession! The B4 doesn't just serve subway riders in Sheepshead Bay. It serves folks going SHOPPING, going to the movies and so on. For example, there was a supermarket on Voorhies Avenue that it made a stop at and then you had stops along Sheepshead Bay Rd and Emmons, both of which are commercial areas. When the B4 was around businesses all along the B4 were doing better. Now you have vacant stores all over the place and vacant condos. Sheepshead Bay is suffering economically, which of course you could care less about because you're fixed on your idea of having the bus go straight, which is NOT necessary and would also make the commutes of others longer.

 

Folks would have to be stupid to purchase any sort of condo or anything down there with the lack of transportation. I seriously considered moving back to Sheepshead Bay but the lack of express bus service on the weekends and then no B4 made that decision easy. In sum, folks looking for or needing transportation go to where the transportation is and that is almost non-existent in Sheepshead Bay.

 

You & I both truly realize there is a definite void down there.... I'm talkin about more than just what's not shown on printed paper.... Just walking out & about around the area.... I don't ever wanna hear anyone say & believe that a bus route (local or express) in an urban community doesn't vitalize that community.....

 

 

....That's why I'd reroute the B44 over Avenue Z (and leave Plumb Beach served by the +SBS+) and have it serve the train station, and then reroute the B36 to Knapp Street. Emmons Avenue gets extra service, Avenue Z riders get more reliable service (since they don't have buses coming all the way from Coney Island, and aside from that, service would be more frequent than the B36 anyway), and you have your fast east-west route (B4) and the route to serve everybody going shopping (B36)

What I'm not understanding with your plan/conjecture/whatever you wanna call it, is, you'd rather bring back the B4 & have the B36 duplicate it in that part of sheepshead... But on the same token, knowing that the B36 is already "established" (meaning, it has good ridership, at the very least) along nostrand av (b/w av U & av Z I'm talkin about), you want to move that off that part of nostrand..... All for the sake of creating a superroute......

 

Case you don't see what I'm getting at, I'll simplify....

 

Within Sheepshead bay, do you really believe that there are more riders that took the B4 from knapp/voorhies, over that of those that take the B36 from neck rd (screw it, av U)/nostrand? It makes more sense for an agency to have a route supplement another due to the (high) amt. of riders on the complementary route....

 

...over having a route supplement another b/w the complementary route has poor service !

[checkmatechamp13]

From what I'm gathering, I'm getting the sense that some may feel that there's too much service on the B44 to Knapp..... What I'm thinkin to myself is, are ppl. forgetting all the B44's that end at Av U. or Av X??? To me, what's being implied is that the B44 has too much LTD service, b/c those are the buses that travel the full distance (or, from flushing av to knapp st)....

 

 

When the B44 gets +SBS+, I'm pretty sure the plan is for all the locals to go to Knapp Street.

[B35 via Church]

When the B44 gets +SBS+, I'm pretty sure the plan is for all the locals to go to Knapp Street.

 

....then the complaint will still be too many B44's going to Knapp.

 

What's the difference?

[checkmatechamp13]

....then the complaint will still be too many B44's going to Knapp.

 

What's the difference?

 

 

That's what we're trying to solve. Route the locals away from Knapp and have them serve another destination (in this case, the subway station)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You & I both truly realize there is a definite void down there.... I'm talkin about more than just what's not shown on printed paper.... Just walking out & about around the area.... I don't ever wanna hear anyone say & believe that a bus route (local or express) in an urban community doesn't vitalize that community.....

 

 

No question about it... You don't see many folks eating out anymore, or shopping for that matter because they need a car to get down there now in some cases. I mean when I go down there now, it is in the barber and right back out. I used to spend easily $50.00 down there everytime I went to the barber which was once or twice a month (and the $50.00 is in additional to what I spend at the barber), so that means no more shopping at Stop & Shop or eating out down there since I have to run back to the BM3 now. Not only that but anything along the bay, I've got to walk to now since there is no B4 near by. My barber confirmed my suspicions and said that businesses all along Emmons Avenue are struggling terribly, not just with the recession but with the lack of transportation now folks have to alter their commutes, as well as where they shop at. Hell I used to do the same thing in the city. I avoided the Upper West Side for a while because of the lack of the M104 to the East Side and the crappy M5 service, but now with me moving to Riverdale, I have the BxM2 so now I am on the Upper West Side more patronizing businesses.

 

I remember how that whole area along Emmons Avenue was revitalized and now... Totally dead... Not only that but even if you have a car now you have to put up with the ridiculous traffic down along Emmons and of course parking has become even worse than it was before, so even with a car it can be a turnoff to do anything down there.

[B35 via Church]

That's what we're trying to solve. Route the locals away from Knapp and have them serve another destination (in this case, the subway station)

The difference is none; that's what.

Whether you have too many LTD's or too many locals, the simple notion that's being portrayed is there are too many B44's down there... Period.

 

I know what you B44 to sheepshead subway supporters are tryna accomplish/solve...

I'm questioning the relevance of it, as it pertains to reviving the B4, and giving that affected area adequate service....

[BrooklynIRT]

People from near Ave Y would have one more block to walk to Avenue Z. Also, sending only the B44SBS to Knapp would require the installation of many more pre-payment kiosks adding to the costs.

 

Wrong, unless B44 riders have a hissy fit about walking a maximum of 5 minutes to a bus stop in Plumb Beach. I explained this to you before Allan. Did you not catch wind of what is going on with the B44 SBS at its north end?

[BrooklynIRT]

Like I said in the chat/exchange we had yesterday, I find it funny that you have some folks that are okay w/ the removal of the LTD (soon to be SBS) 44 off NY av & onto rogers... but justify/side with a diversion of the route on the southern end towards sheepshead subway.... There's no consistency w/ the two thought processes.....

 

I know the NY/Rogers Ave thing is a weird subject; my opinion remains that the B49 should go up New York and Rogers should just have SBS making only the stops they currently plan to have it make, but no local service on Rogers. This would probably not be a permanent solution though. Anyway...

 

The difference is none; that's what. Whether you have too many LTD's or too many locals, the simple notion that's being portrayed is there are too many B44's down there... Period.

 

Well the way I look at it is that the B44 SBS down there by itself is good (again, hopefully nobody has a hissy fit about walking a maximum of 5 minutes to a bus stop in Plumb Beach, because the last thing I want is for it to make a bunch more stops), B44 local down there by itself is no good. The B44 SBS will not be too much more frequent than the B44 LT on paper, but for both the SBS and local to go down there might be too much service. I am trying to account for what Allan was saying about how Plumb Beach should not get such frequent B44 service, presumably after SBS begins.

 

If he is saying that both the B44 local and SBS should not go there (like it has to be one or the other), then I could see that. If he is saying that the SBS should not go there without the local, then I am in disagreement. Again, they do not 'have' to add more SBS stops except maybe at "Z". It takes 5 bloody minutes at most to walk to a SBS stop from anywhere in Plumb Beach and as I said before they are going to have all the locals terminate at Flushing Ave on the north end (with SBSs continuing to the bridge), so I do not follow this notion that a SBS stop would be needed at Coyle, let alone every local stop south of the southern terminal of the local. And, they could just send half the B44 locals to Plumb Beach if people there want the B44 local service so badly.

[Threxx]

I have already said that a new route should be created on NY Avenue & Marcy, which should have been there since the beginning...

[BrooklynBus]

You are not understanding me. I was talking about B36 riders in the first sentence. Or do you believe people should not have any choice in which subway they want to use.

 

And that 5 minute walk for you may be a 15 minute walk for an elderly person. Why should B44 riders not have stops at Avenue Y, Z, Voorhies, Shore Parkway North Service Road, and Coyle Street just so the MTA could save money. Read about my proposal on Wednesday.

[B35 via Church]

Well the way I look at it is that the B44 SBS down there by itself is good (again, hopefully nobody has a hissy fit about walking a maximum of 5 minutes to a bus stop in Plumb Beach, because the last thing I want is for it to make a bunch more stops), B44 local down there by itself is no good. The B44 SBS will not be too much more frequent than the B44 LT on paper, but for both the SBS and local to go down there might be too much service. I am trying to account for what Allan was saying about how Plumb Beach should not get such frequent B44 service, presumably after SBS begins.

 

If he is saying that both the B44 local and SBS should not go there (like it has to be one or the other), then I could see that. If he is saying that the SBS should not go there without the local, then I am in disagreement. Again, they do not 'have' to add more SBS stops except maybe at "Z". It takes 5 bloody minutes at most to walk to a SBS stop from anywhere in Plumb Beach and as I said before they are going to have all the locals terminate at Flushing Ave on the north end (with SBSs continuing to the bridge), so I do not follow this notion that a SBS stop would be needed at Coyle, let alone every local stop south of the southern terminal of the local. And, they could just send half the B44 locals to Plumb Beach if people there want the B44 local service so badly.

 

I'll try to tie this to the focal point of this thread.....

 

What's being talked about as far as B44 service distribution goes, is one reason why I'm against SBS on the B44 in its totality.... Since they're gonna have artics on the thing, having artics as well as locals terminating down by knapp/shore pkwy serv rd. (some buses actually currently layover on knapp) poses a problem.... This is why the consensus here is one of, send "these" B44's here & send "those" B44's there.... This wouldn't be a problem if SBS weren't coming on the B44.... 40' buses obviously takes up less space than a 60' artic..... and with the rate 44 LTD's currently come at, we're talking about a lot of buses.....

 

Even if they do cut some miniscule amt. of service on the SBS' to try to rectify that problem (which is still a negative because it'd be... less service than what was prior), matters are still being made worse, for the benefits/positives SBS will end up providing.... Yet again with the MTA creating more problems than they're solving......

 

.....and oh, I didn't hear ANYONE bringing up about there's too much B44 service to knapp st before this discussion..... it's a convenient excuse to justify sending 44's to the subway; to me, that's all it is.....

 

It truly is funny to hear this too much service complaint on the 44 down in that area, when the B4 doesn't get near as much there anymore..... Talk about sweeping problems under the rug; this is not about the 44 - and it has ufck all to do w/ the crummy service on the B4..... Man, the vibe I'm getting from this thread/discussion is one of - To hell with the B4, to hell with analyzing & trying to come up w/ solutions to the B36's problems (which is where all this B44 talk arised from), and let's focus on enhancing the B44/44 SBS when that comes.....

 

My solution is a simple one.... talkin about in Sheepshead, revert the B4 full time (none of this part time garbage); matter fact, INcrease rush hour headways on top of it..... leave the B36 routing alone, and leave B44's right there down @ knapp.... I don't think SBS should've ever been introduced, but since it has.... You know what, Let the MTA (try to) fix the mess it created by wanting to have SBS service on the 44 - While leaving buses at knapp st. No excuses....

 

Can't no one justify the exacerbation of mixing & matching & creating other routes to suffice for something such as solely reverting the B4 & leaving everything else the hell alone..... You don't get pats on the back for creating & solving your own jigsaw puzzle (borrowing Brooklyn Bus' terminology) When the simplest solution.... get this...

 

....Didn't require a jigsaw puzzle to Begin with.

[Threxx]

You are not understanding me. I was talking about B36 riders in the first sentence. Or do you believe people should not have any choice in which subway they want to use.

 

And that 5 minute walk for you may be a 15 minute walk for an elderly person. Why should B44 riders not have stops at Avenue Y, Z, Voorhies, Shore Parkway North Service Road, and Coyle Street just so the MTA could save money. Read about my proposal on Wednesday.

 

 

There is a local bus for a reason...

[BrooklynIRT]

Or do you believe people should not have any choice in which subway they want to use.

 

No, I believe they should have a choice. But you have to explain what you are asking me because I do not follow you on this one.

 

And that 5 minute walk for you may be a 15 minute walk for an elderly person. Why should B44 riders not have stops at Avenue Y, Z, Voorhies, Shore Parkway North Service Road, and Coyle Street just so the MTA could save money.

 

Mamma mia, who said that just because they are saving money does not mean that people can actually benefit from some of the things they do? I was not looking at the MTA saving money. I was looking at the fact that you would be turning a 14- to 16-minute trip on the B44 SBS from Knapp St to Flatbush Ave (I am looking primarily at subway transfers here) into a 20+ minute trip (which is what it is now), making it a lot less effective by adding all these extra stops. It needs an additional stop nowhere except perhaps at "Z", whether you send all the locals to Knapp, half the locals to Knapp, or no locals to Knapp.

 

It is unwarranted for the SBS and if your concern (which is probably valid) is the fact that sending every local B44 and every SBS B44 to Plumb Beach is too much service, then if people have such a problem with walking they can just send half the locals there. Local B44s operate every 10 minutes right now, so Plumb Beach would get a B44 local every 20 minutes or so. The other locals would end at "X" or "Z". Hardly anybody who is trying to get to work or school as quickly as possible needs a B44 bus that stops every 2-3 blocks; they need a B44 SBS so they can get to the IRT or Brooklyn College or wherever as quickly as possible.

 

B35, I was looking more at the B44 ridership in Plumb Beach than at the terminal capacity there. They could also have the B44 locals that go to Plumb Beach terminate with the B4 at Voorhies or something along those lines if capacity is an issue. There is enough room for two Artics on the service road from the last parking space to the corner of Brigham/service road. A third Artic could go in the first stop. I mean if the schedules are written accurately they should never have more than three SBS buses at the end. I am not sure how much recovery time most B44 LT runs get at Knapp, but with SBS they should not need more than 10 minutes. By the time the third bus comes in, the first one should be in the stop with the doors open and ready to leave in one minute.

 

Although you are correct in that the capacity and curb space issues need to be addressed.

[Interested Rider]

I am washing my hands of this thread and let the rest of the members of the forum help him with the B/4. We would have been better off leaving the B/21 Brighton Beach Avenue route alone with its 12 -15 minute headways during the day.and operated from 4 AM - 2 AM every day. Most importantly, it was reliable and ran on schedule.

[B35 via Church]

B35, I was looking more at the B44 ridership in Plumb Beach than at the terminal capacity there. They could also have the B44 locals that go to Plumb Beach terminate with the B4 at Voorhies or something along those lines if capacity is an issue. There is enough room for two Artics on the service road from the last parking space to the corner of Brigham/service road. A third Artic could go in the first stop. I mean if the schedules are written accurately they should never have more than three SBS buses at the end. I am not sure how much recovery time most B44 LT runs get at Knapp, but with SBS they should not need more than 10 minutes. By the time the third bus comes in, the first one should be in the stop with the doors open and ready to leave in one minute.

 

Although you are correct in that the capacity and curb space issues need to be addressed.

I realize you can fit two artics along where it terminates; I've seen as many as 4 buses (well, this was back when the 44 was all RTS, but, no difference, still a 40' bus) lined up over there..... What I was sayin is, there's no room for the artics and the locals... hence, the suggestion (by others) to send some buses to the subway.....

 

I think you just may have stumbled onto something there.... Instead of diverting 44's to sheepshead subway, they could extend the locals up along shore pkwy serv. rd north (like the BM3 does) to terminate where the B4 does over by that 7-11..... as long as the 44 stays serving that "side" of sheepshead (east of nostrand av; around knapp st, etc).... that would result in zero service coverage loss on the 44 & no mixing & matching whatsoever.... So my basic premise is, w/i sheepshead, the B44 serves areas east of nostrand down there.... and leave the B4 & the B36 to serve areas west of nostrand.... That way, those folks have their choice of the IRT (B44) or the BMT (B4) - just like nostrand av riders have; IRT (B44) & BMT (B36)......

 

My fault if you felt all of that last post was aimed at you (matter fact, most of it wasn't)......

[Future ENY OP]

Still reading this post, and somethings don't make sense to me.

 

B44 to Sheepshead Bay Train Station (ELIMINATE THAT).. Not happening. I don't see it happening, and even with the implementation of +SBS44+ the locals would either stand at Avenue U or Avenue X or Knapp Street. Nostrand is a East-West route.

So, please let's take out the notion of having the 44 going to train station to Sheepshead. Route is already long enough. No need to extend it even longer.

 

Plain and simple: B4 needs to return FULL TIME exclusively, and the 36 needs to be improved to serve the area.

[B35 via Church]

Still reading this post, and somethings don't make sense to me.

 

B44 to Sheepshead Bay Train Station (ELIMINATE THAT).. Not happening. I don't see it happening, and even with the implementation of +SBS44+ the locals would either stand at Avenue U or Avenue X or Knapp Street. Nostrand is a East-West route.

So, please let's take out the notion of having the 44 going to train station to Sheepshead. Route is already long enough. No need to extend it even longer.

 

Plain and simple: B4 needs to return FULL TIME exclusively, and the 36 needs to be improved to serve the area.

 

Yeah, that's what I've been sayin for the past couple posts now.....

[BrooklynBus]

I am washing my hands of this thread and let the rest of the members of the forum help him with the B/4. We would have been better off leaving the B/21 Brighton Beach Avenue route alone with its 12 -15 minute headways during the day.and operated from 4 AM - 2 AM every day. Most importantly, it was reliable and ran on schedule.

 

The thing is the B21 would never be running at those headways if it operated today. With all the MTA service cuts over the years, by 1985, headways would have been cut to 20 minutes so fewer passengers would have been using it. By 1995, weekend service would have been discontinued with the service span cut to midnight. By 2000, it would have just been a shuttle from Ocean Parkway to Kingsborough College and the old B1 from 25th Avenue to the College would have been eliminated entirely. We never would have gotten the B1 from Brighton Beach to Bay Ridge. That trip could only have been made by taking the Brighton Line to Pacific Street and the R train. So how would we have been better off?

[B35 via Church]

The thing is the B21 would never be running at those headways if it operated today. With all the MTA service cuts over the years, by 1985, headways would have been cut to 20 minutes so fewer passengers would have been using it. By 1995, weekend service would have been discontinued with the service span cut to midnight. By 2000, it would have just been a shuttle from Ocean Parkway to Kingsborough College and the old B1 from 25th Avenue to the College would have been eliminated entirely. We never would have gotten the B1 from Brighton Beach to Bay Ridge. That trip could only have been made by taking the Brighton Line to Pacific Street and the R train. So how would we have been better off?

 

Yeah, I just left that one alone....The B21 (a route basically going from KCC to Sheepshead bay via Brighton Beach, for the younger folk reading this) would not have been practical, considering ppl's current ridership habits/commutes..... No way would we have been better off w/ a route like that in the network....

 

things are better explained with a picture....

[checkmatechamp13]

You are not understanding me. I was talking about B36 riders in the first sentence. Or do you believe people should not have any choice in which subway they want to use.

 

And that 5 minute walk for you may be a 15 minute walk for an elderly person. Why should B44 riders not have stops at Avenue Y, Z, Voorhies, Shore Parkway North Service Road, and Coyle Street just so the MTA could save money. Read about my proposal on Wednesday.

 

That's why I said the locals should go to the station, to replace the B36 going there.

 

.....and oh, I didn't hear ANYONE bringing up about there's too much B44 service to knapp st before this discussion..... it's a convenient excuse to justify sending 44's to the subway; to me, that's all it is.....

 

Because as of now, there aren't as many locals going down to Knapp Street. With +SBS+, the plan is to send them all down there.

 

The thing is the B21 would never be running at those headways if it operated today. With all the MTA service cuts over the years, by 1985, headways would have been cut to 20 minutes so fewer passengers would have been using it. By 1995, weekend service would have been discontinued with the service span cut to midnight. By 2000, it would have just been a shuttle from Ocean Parkway to Kingsborough College and the old B1 from 25th Avenue to the College would have been eliminated entirely. We never would have gotten the B1 from Brighton Beach to Bay Ridge. That trip could only have been made by taking the Brighton Line to Pacific Street and the R train. So how would we have been better off?

 

When I lived in Brighton Beach, I thought the best way would be to take the to the to the . You may have to make an extra transfer, but you avoid going through all of Brooklyn.

 

In any case, I see your point.

[B35 via Church]

Because as of now, there aren't as many locals going down to Knapp Street. With +SBS+, the plan is to send them all down there.

 

Nah nah nah, don't even try it...... the complaint was that there's too much current B44 service down at knapp street....

Not what would happen when SBS arrives....

 

No one was up here talking about diverting 44's to sheepshead subway b/c there was supposedly too much service to knapp, before SBS was introduced... Now that SBS is about to arrive, oh there's too much service down there..... they should send some 44's to the subway.....

 

give me a break.....

[Future ENY OP]

When +SBS44+ gets introduced, the local service will be the same (SIMILAR to M15) . Buses to end on Avenue U, Avenue X and or Knapp Street. IF you are going to tell me that the B44 will travel from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Sheepshead Bay train station that would be insane. The route is already long enough and it ends at Emmons (Late Nite service), and Knapp Street (All day till 1AM).

 

For the it's plainly simple, it needs to the B4 to return back FULL TIME and exclusively, increase the headways on the B36. Create a shuttle bwn Sheepshead Bay to KCC, increase headways during AM and PM rush-hours on the B49 bwn KCC-Sheepshead Bay (for students).

 

What I gather here is that sheepshead riders are really ungrateful, and yes bus service was severely lost during the 2010 cuts but it doesn't mean to divert a East-West route like the B44 to satisfy the lost of service.