Hound Posted March 29, 2014 Share #101 Posted March 29, 2014 Well, I'd rather not go there, but I fear they might put n22's back on 30 mins on Saturdays instead of every 20 mins. Maybe even 40 mins for Sunday. n35 may run to Westbury rush hours only (which would mean 100% LIRR for me, I aint dealing with that 22). I know the way they think, they see more than 1 route serving an area and they think it's too much service, their philosophy is to have everyone jam onto one route (such as the n6,etc). But it's backfired, riders don't want to put up with waiting longer for more crowded buses. and if they find they can make that same trip with LIRR, or a car is available, they will choose that option. What's left, well, we already know that! Of course what they SHOULD do is reduce n14 & n62 runs, and put the n21 back on rush hours only. Basically if they mess with the busy routes, I guarantee ridership will be down 25% over what it was the prior year. The n22 sucks and it's jammed enough, trying to force me on it and running less buses will just drive me to the LIRR. I've already pretty much worked out how to get most places I need to get to via LIRR, and if it comes to that, it's what I'm gonna do. Alot of the time it doesn't take that much longer, it's just a longer walk from home. Most places I travel to already have LIRR stations, even if I have to do via Jamaica I will do it before taking that n22 again. Of course NICE said service cuts are a "last resort". They also said the additions made recently would NOT be cut and that includes the Jones Beach service. Speaking of Jones Beach service-you won't believe what they're going to do with the N87. After Wantagh Sta. it will operate via Sunrise Hwy., servicing Freeport RR, before heading to Jones Beach. It would supposedly operate on 30 min. headways all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share #102 Posted March 29, 2014 Speaking of Jones Beach service-you won't believe what they're going to do with the N87. After Wantagh Sta. it will operate via Sunrise Hwy., servicing Freeport RR, before heading to Jones Beach. It would supposedly operate on 30 min. headways all day. If that is true, then what becomes of the n88? Is there just going to be one route now? What I would've done instead, was simply extend the n73 or n74 to Jones Beach with every other run. And perhaps extend some n4s to Jones Beach to provide a one seat ride from Queens to Jones Beach. Or extend the n43 to Jones Beach to provide a one seat ride from RF. Basically, what it sounds like is that they're combining the n87 & 88 into one route, to make it even more jammed. Looks like I won't be going to Jones Beach as much this summer if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 30, 2014 Share #103 Posted March 30, 2014 I know. But if NICE won't touch the n80/81 or the n73/74, what will they cut? Any predictions? Hmm well they could give segments of other lines to N73 to prop up usage. Reshape N80 to serve places people need to reach split N81 into 2 with a portion transferred to another line and the other to a more popular destination. They can cut N46,47&51 and reroute N55 to Roosevelt field via parts of N46&51. And have N48 go to merrick via N51 route. Extension of N6 to cover lost front street service bust out the Artics on N6. Well, I'd rather not go there, but I fear they might put n22's back on 30 mins on Saturdays instead of every 20 mins. Maybe even 40 mins for Sunday. n35 may run to Westbury rush hours only (which would mean 100% LIRR for me, I aint dealing with that 22). I know the way they think, they see more than 1 route serving an area and they think it's too much service, their philosophy is to have everyone jam onto one route (such as the n6,etc). But it's backfired, riders don't want to put up with waiting longer for more crowded buses. and if they find they can make that same trip with LIRR, or a car is available, they will choose that option. What's left, well, we already know that! Of course what they SHOULD do is reduce n14 & n62 runs, and put the n21 back on rush hours only. Basically if they mess with the busy routes, I guarantee ridership will be down 25% over what it was the prior year. The n22 sucks and it's jammed enough, trying to force me on it and running less buses will just drive me to the LIRR. I've already pretty much worked out how to get most places I need to get to via LIRR, and if it comes to that, it's what I'm gonna do. Alot of the time it doesn't take that much longer, it's just a longer walk from home. Most places I travel to already have LIRR stations, even if I have to do via Jamaica I will do it before taking that n22 again. Of course NICE said service cuts are a "last resort". They also said the additions made recently would NOT be cut and that includes the Jones Beach service. N62 can get merged with N40(peak hours) & N4x trips. N14 can merge with N17. 2 other mergers can increase ridership and cut costs I can pm you about em as I am not sure which ones. But after observation of traffic patterns I may have found a better method to deal with N6 crowding but I have a question how unreliable is N22? It was mostly on time every time I tried to use it and even helped me catch LIRR trains at Westbury or Carle place when ever I am in a pinch. Maybe N22 wasn't designed to carry patrons from queens all the way to Westbury and hicksville but perform the tasks of several routes as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share #104 Posted March 30, 2014 Hmm well they could give segments of other lines to N73 to prop up usage. Reshape N80 to serve places people need to reach split N81 into 2 with a portion transferred to another line and the other to a more popular destination. They can cut N46,47&51 and reroute N55 to Roosevelt field via parts of N46&51. And have N48 go to merrick via N51 route. Extension of N6 to cover lost front street service bust out the Artics on N6. N62 can get merged with N40(peak hours) & N4x trips. N14 can merge with N17. 2 other mergers can increase ridership and cut costs I can pm you about em as I am not sure which ones. But after observation of traffic patterns I may have found a better method to deal with N6 crowding but I have a question how unreliable is N22? It was mostly on time every time I tried to use it and even helped me catch LIRR trains at Westbury or Carle place when ever I am in a pinch. Maybe N22 wasn't designed to carry patrons from queens all the way to Westbury and hicksville but perform the tasks of several routes as one. In Westbury the n22 is usually anywhere from 10-30 minutes late. It's usually the worst on weekdays. Sometimes in the early evening they can be over 30 minutes late and often bunched. Not sure exactly where they're getting delayed, but they ran on time more often when was running things, not perfect, but usually not more than 10 minutes late. Nowadays you're lucky if the n22 is 10 minutes late or less in Westbury! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 30, 2014 Share #105 Posted March 30, 2014 In Westbury the n22 is usually anywhere from 10-30 minutes late. It's usually the worst on weekdays. Sometimes in the early evening they can be over 30 minutes late and often bunched. Not sure exactly where they're getting delayed, but they ran on time more often when was running things, not perfect, but usually not more than 10 minutes late. Nowadays you're lucky if the n22 is 10 minutes late or less in Westbury! If N22 is so late in Westbury then maybe it's time to drop Westbury from the N22 and give it to another route. With x trips not being fazed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted March 30, 2014 Share #106 Posted March 30, 2014 But after observation of traffic patterns I may have found a better method to deal with N6 crowding ... It's not always NICE's fault, sometimes delays and bunching on the will make the N6 jammed eastbound. But, sometimes early buses , missed connections and buses passing stops when they're not really full causes crowding for the next bus westbournd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted March 30, 2014 Share #107 Posted March 30, 2014 Updated interlining grid: Weekday Saturday Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RtrainBlues Posted March 30, 2014 Share #108 Posted March 30, 2014 The N87 change makes total sense. When you have a crush-loaded N88 (so that you can't fit any more passengers on the bus) and maybe 2 or 3 people on the entire N87, it makes perfect sense to reroute the N87 to take additional passengers to Freeport. When I'm waiting at Jones Beach, everyone passes up the N87 since nobody wants to go there, then everyone gets on the N88 to Freeport. This is called MASS transit so you have to go where the MASSES of people want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 30, 2014 Share #109 Posted March 30, 2014 The N87 change makes total sense. When you have a crush-loaded N88 (so that you can't fit any more passengers on the bus) and maybe 2 or 3 people on the entire N87, it makes perfect sense to reroute the N87 to take additional passengers to Freeport. When I'm waiting at Jones Beach, everyone passes up the N87 since nobody wants to go there, then everyone gets on the N88 to Freeport. This is called MASS transit so you have to go where the MASSES of people want to go. Yeah, the N87 will be additional service for now.... It's gonna come to a point where the N87 is gonna be phased into the N88 (meaning, no more direct service to JB north of Freeport)..... More service to the N88; don't really need buses emanating from Hicksville down to JB anyway... If N22 is so late in Westbury then maybe it's time to drop Westbury from the N22 and give it to another route. With x trips not being fazed I understand Pinepower exaggerates at times, but having 22's not serve Westbury is just plain stupid..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share #110 Posted March 30, 2014 The N87 change makes total sense. When you have a crush-loaded N88 (so that you can't fit any more passengers on the bus) and maybe 2 or 3 people on the entire N87, it makes perfect sense to reroute the N87 to take additional passengers to Freeport. When I'm waiting at Jones Beach, everyone passes up the N87 since nobody wants to go there, then everyone gets on the N88 to Freeport. This is called MASS transit so you have to go where the MASSES of people want to go. The n87 used to get a good amt of people prior to the eliminating it, but last year it was pretty sparse. As long as it's not the only route to Jones Beach serving Freeport, and the n88 or it's variant are still running, then it's probably a good idea and will result in increased service for this busy corridor between Freeport & JB. This also provides a pretty neat crosstown connection between Freeport & Hicksville. The question is, will it also be making stops along Sunrise Highway in Bellmore & Merrick and get some additional ridership there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 30, 2014 Share #111 Posted March 30, 2014 n24: Weekday n24 5:36am and 6:19am trips from East Meadow-90 Merrick Av to Jamaica Bus Terminal will be discontinued. These trips will originate at Roosevelt Field at 5:49am and 6:32am. Now this is smart.... Who the heck is coming from Reckson Building & 60 charles lindbergh around that time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted March 31, 2014 Share #112 Posted March 31, 2014 Updated interlining grid: Weekday Saturday Sunday I think the 2nd line on the weekday PDF has a typo. I think it's supposed to be the N1 from Jamaica to Green Acres. But now I see what's going on, they ended reverse peak trips on the N1 so they can interline the hell out of it, haha. Interesting observations: Weekday: -Page 37, N25 to Lynbrook deadheads to Jamaica to become a N1 -P49. N1 Hewlett to Elmont, Deadhead to Jamaica, N1 Jamaica to Hewlett, deadhead to Far Rockaway, N33 to long beach. (I just realized I can put the block number instead of page number) -Block 892686: N1 and n4 interline. -Block 892665 N1 and N17 interline. Sat: block 891283: n36 -n41- n72 Sun: Block: 890861: n24 to Roosevelt Field deadheads to Hicksville to become N22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted March 31, 2014 Share #113 Posted March 31, 2014 I think the 2nd line on the weekday PDF has a typo. I think it's supposed to be the N1 from Jamaica to Green Acres. Yes, it's a typo, but on NICE's part (it has n1 stops). The trip planning software is going to get confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share #114 Posted March 31, 2014 I think the 2nd line on the weekday PDF has a typo. I think it's supposed to be the N1 from Jamaica to Green Acres. But now I see what's going on, they ended reverse peak trips on the N1 so they can interline the hell out of it, haha. Interesting observations: Weekday: -Page 37, N25 to Lynbrook deadheads to Jamaica to become a N1 -P49. N1 Hewlett to Elmont, Deadhead to Jamaica, N1 Jamaica to Hewlett, deadhead to Far Rockaway, N33 to long beach. (I just realized I can put the block number instead of page number) -Block 892686: N1 and n4 interline. -Block 892665 N1 and N17 interline. Sat: block 891283: n36 -n41- n72 Sun: Block: 890861: n24 to Roosevelt Field deadheads to Hicksville to become N22. So much deadheading, I can't see how that's efficient running buses all over the place with no revenue (passengers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theorem Ox Posted April 2, 2014 Share #115 Posted April 2, 2014 So much deadheading, I can't see how that's efficient running buses all over the place with no revenue (passengers). Indeed. What appears to be NICE's take on deadheading buses: The buses will be able to get to the origin point of a route faster and depart close to on time there because it will not picking up revenue passengers along the way. What will likely be the case on deadheading buses in practice: Buses are still subject to the same road congestion and poor stoplight timings as they would if they were in revenue service. Many of NICE's routes that serve the western half of Nassau have at least one origin point that can only be accessed via roads that can get heavily congested (with few to no alternative practical routes to get there). Their thoughts may hold true in the earlier part of rush hour, but will be wishful thinking at best in the thick of rush hour. In the case of the N1, the dwell time for passenger pick-ups and drop-offs were often trivial in most of the time I've ridden that route from Merrick Rd. to 179 in the PM Rush. The argument they made for discontinuing revenue reverse peak service is the very same argument I'd make to advocate continued service there. Why not make a few more passengers happy and take in an extra few bucks when deadheading will not save all that much time and gas to begin with? Must be that famous NICE (Never Intended Contention [for] Excellence) logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 4, 2014 Share #116 Posted April 4, 2014 Deadheading, interlining, and spaghetti runs can be excellent ways to save money if done properly, that is, generated by good software and carefully verified by an experienced planner. Done wrong it can very easily create the illusion of efficiency, as said above. I doubt NICE has either the expensive software or the scheduling talent to perform such an optimization. That said, deadheading along a route just to avoid dwell time should be avoided wherever possible, since whatever little time it creates is so unreliable. Also there's the revenue issue, but if NICE is so cut-throat on layovers that 5-8min spent picking up passengers means adding a whole extra bus and driver, it may not be worth the extra revenue. It could also be a matter of county billing, as if I remember NICE is paid by REVENUE hour so cutting revenue hours means cutting county expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 6, 2014 Share #117 Posted April 6, 2014 So much deadheading, I can't see how that's efficient running buses all over the place with no revenue (passengers). That's because it isn't efficient, the way it's currently handled.... Then again, it may not entirely be their fault; there are only 3 (2 if you don't count the paratransit facility) garages for the whole county.... Then again (lol), before SI came out w/ Charleston & Meredith (when they only had yukon & castleton), I don't remember buses DH-ing all over the place in SI, like they did/do in Nassau.... So yeah, I'm chalking it up to poor planning.... Deadheading, interlining, and spaghetti runs.... Aren't interlining & "spaghetti runs" the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 6, 2014 Share #118 Posted April 6, 2014 Aren't interlining & "spaghetti runs" the same thing? Sometimes we say they are, but technically they're not. Interlining = All trips of one route go to another. (n25<->n58 on weekends) "Spaghetti runs" = Individual trips are threaded together. ("Hooked trips" is the formal term) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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