m7zanr160s Posted March 23, 2016 Share #1 Posted March 23, 2016 Why aren't trains allowed to stop half-way in a station when there is a red signal in the middle? And what's the point of adding (or having) signals that allow operators to close in on trains leaving the station if they can't enter until it clears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacemak3r Posted March 23, 2016 Share #2 Posted March 23, 2016 What do you mean in the first question? Because I had a few occasions where my train "stops" in the middle before moving again to completely stop at a station. (ie. red signal in the middle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted March 23, 2016 Share #3 Posted March 23, 2016 He is referring to the (anecdotal) rule that a train must not stop in a station unless it can platform all cars and take on customers. Which has an interpretation that you cannot enter the station until the other train leaves, which has the effect of minimizing the us of ST signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itmaybeokay Posted March 23, 2016 Share #4 Posted March 23, 2016 Is it an anecdotal rule? I'm pretty sure it's just a regular rule. I've never seen a train enter the station when there's a red signal mid-platform. As I understand it, the reason for the rule is so that the train isn't stopped part in the station part in the tunnel, and an inattentive c/r, seeing the train stopped and station outside, might open the doors. Yes - they are supposed to point to the CR Indication Board to ensure that doesn't happen, but still. I can't find my more recent rules - but it's definitely a written rule even in the 1919 BMT rulebook :-D. I think the other reason is so that, if the train is stopped at the red for a while, people don't try to disembark through the storm doors and out between the cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted March 23, 2016 Share #5 Posted March 23, 2016 The rule exists so that: -Passengers will not attempt to exit the train early. -When the train begins moving again, the passengers will not panic, thinking the station is being bypassed, and pull the emergency brake. -There is less chance of the doors being opened with cars outside the station (since these rules were created before enablers, and since there is still equipment that doesn't have them) Station time signals have nothing to do with this, however. A train can enter a station where signals are red in the station, provided they are set to clear on station time. This happens all the time, and there are numerous locations where this is possible, probably the most noticeable being on 3 track at Queens Plaza where in addition to the ST signals there is also a blind trip, and trains can still come in. The caveat is the Train Operator or Motorman must be certain the signals are on station time to enter a station this way, so as the saying goes, "when in doubt, stay out." Station time is incredibly useful in practice (especially to keep trains moving behind a train that is stopped in a station), and without it, there would be much more congestion and lateness in the system than there is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itmaybeokay Posted March 23, 2016 Share #6 Posted March 23, 2016 Station time signals have nothing to do with this, however. A train can enter a station where signals are red in the station, provided they are set to clear on station time. This happens all the time, and there are numerous locations where this is possible, probably the most noticeable being on 3 track at Queens Plaza where in addition to the ST signals there is also a blind trip, and trains can still come in. Meanwhile, on 2 track they have wheel detectors that I guess just aren't a thing, considering how many times I've been on an R train held outside the station while an M train crosses from D4 at the other end of the station. That kind of defeats the purpose in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted March 24, 2016 Share #7 Posted March 24, 2016 Interesting, one wonders how the rule was applied in the days when some Station Time signals were not so obvious. Not so anecdotal anymore now that I have seen a clear explanation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted March 27, 2016 Share #8 Posted March 27, 2016 What are station time timers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted March 27, 2016 Share #9 Posted March 27, 2016 Signals that make you slow down when a train is ahead, allowing you to get closer safely, but clearing at a slow speed. (Where Grade Time is the same thing, but for a grade r curve that needs a slower speed, when there is no train ahead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted March 28, 2016 Share #10 Posted March 28, 2016 Signals that make you slow down when a train is ahead, allowing you to get closer safely, but clearing at a slow speed. (Where Grade Time is the same thing, but for a grade r curve that needs a slower speed, when there is no train ahead). Thanks! Do all stations have station time timers, or is there some logic dictating which stations have them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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