Rail dumb, MTA! Platform at South Ferry station 1 inch too far from train

[KeystoneRegional]

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[metsfan]

I know this is a little off topic, but does anyone know why they didn't connect the new South Ferry station with the Lexington Line?

 

Because they don't need to, plus the technical obstacles are too many.

 

- A

[MTR Admiralty]

As a Staten Islander and a former T/O on the line, my opinion is that the current station is the better of the two.

 

Entrances - The current station location forces crowds from the ferry to separate before exiting the terminal - to the left, to the right. The new layout will cause this separation to happen inside fare control - that is everyone will need to use the same entrance to the station before going their separate ways. This is when everyone brings up "the new station has three entrances" routine. Let's look at these new entrances - the closest to the ferry is shared with the ; the middle entrance will be at the far side of a bus loop, causing people to watch for moving buses (or not, as the case may be); the third entrance is practically at Bowling Green, making it as useful as the fourth entrance at Stone St.

 

Depth of station - the current station is about 35 steps below street level. The new station, by necessity, is quite a bit deeper than that. Ever try running up from the platform? Expect an even harder run from the - and expect a small nightmare when both trains arrive right before a ferry departure and someone doesn't feel like running up the escalator(s).

 

ADA Access - Neither South Ferry nor Whitehall was on the list of stations to be made accessible. Upon opening of the new station complex, Whitehall still will not be accessible, but South Ferry will. And of course we all know Transit's record on operational elevators.

 

Rider Habits vs Terminal Operations - This promises to be the most fun. Right now, people run down the stairs to South Ferry (and Whitehall, too) and do anything possible to get on the train before the doors close. Current terminal operations for equipment on the goes like this: train arrives and dumps, C/R points at board and opens side doors, people get off. C/R closes down, dezones and leaves train. New C/R boards, opens train from new operating position, closes down when starting lights illuminate. Did you catch that "closes down" thing happening twice? As everyone tries to bull their way onto the just arrived train, the train already in the station will close down and leave, causing everyone to turn on the C/R in the station. It won't be pretty.

 

Gap fillers - Yeah, yeah, they're not safe, they break down and cause delays. And yet, I'm still not seeing any plans to rebuild Union Square, which is a much busier station, to remove the gap fillers there.

 

Speed - Current station is posted at 10 mph from 100 feet outside the station. Timers clear at 10 mph. New station is posted at 20, 10, 10 entering the station - what the timers will clear at remains to be seen. Just remember tat speed entering a station that ends with a bumping block is 10 mph and there is no terminal in the system that allows you to enter that fast anyhow.

-Three exits would allow for better flow in the event of an emergency.

-Look at how many people ride the ferry, look at how many people ride the 1. The platform is half the length of a normal platform and could not hold that much people. The new platform will allow for more dispersion and the ability to hold more passengers.

-Look at the current situation, IF in fact people miss the train, you think it is pretty? And it is pretty slow for the train to move out of the curve.

-There is also separation outside of fare control. And look, in the event where it pours, don't people want to head indoors ASAP? If there is nasty weather, do people want to run in the rain to the R and W station?

-Now... which is more easier to rebuild? South Ferry or Union Square? Yes, South Ferry has a lot of engineering difficulties itself. But look at the Lex station. There are 4 active tracks, 3 services and yeah...

[Alex L.]

-Three exits would allow for better flow in the event of an emergency.

 

And since we know that the current station has the capability of having two - since it did during the Ferry Terminal reconstruction... And will we be opening new exits at every other station with a single entrance?

 

 

Look at how many people ride the ferry, look at how many people ride the 1. The platform is half the length of a normal platform and could not hold that much people. The new platform will allow for more dispersion and the ability to hold more passengers.

 

Biggest Ferry holds 6000 people. During the AM rush, it is usually 3/4 full. The 1 gets somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 of that, so let's call it 1200 people. Of those 300 or so are not going to be on the first train that arrives in the station (they will either be on the train that leaves ahead of it or the one that arrives behind it). So we've got about 900 people to fit into half a train. A whole train holds 2000. Not a problem.

 

You really think they're going to disperse if a train is sitting there? Everybody will go through the first door they get to. In the PM, everyone will try to fit into the car where the closest stair to the ferry will be.

 

Look at the current situation, IF in fact people miss the train, you think it is pretty? And it is pretty slow for the train to move out of the curve.

 

Of course it's not pretty. People are asses. Every see Union Square with a delay in n/b express service during the morning rush? People fill the platform, the stairs, the upper mezzanine and sometime back up almost to the Broadway line - all the time fighting with the Transit workers put there for crowd control.

 

There is also separation outside of fare control. And look, in the event where it pours, don't people want to head indoors ASAP? If there is nasty weather, do people want to run in the rain to the R and W station?

 

Of course they want to be indoors when it rains - that's why the current entrance to the 1 is so nice - It's in the Ferry Terminal! But this is silly. Even with the new station, R/W riders will still be running in the rain, since the entrance will remain where it is - outside of the Terminal. The 12 foot wide covered walkway is not going to keep many people dry, especially when hundreds of them are running for the stairs.

 

 

Now... which is more easier to rebuild? South Ferry or Union Square? Yes, South Ferry has a lot of engineering difficulties itself. But look at the Lex station. There are 4 active tracks, 3 services and yeah...

 

Sorry - if they can rebuild 72/B'way to make the platform wider and rebuild South Ferry because gap fillers are dangerous, then Union Square shouldn't be a problem.

[MTR Admiralty]

And since we know that the current station has the capability of having two - since it did during the Ferry Terminal reconstruction... And will we be opening new exits at every other station with a single entrance?

 

Biggest Ferry holds 6000 people. During the AM rush, it is usually 3/4 full. The 1 gets somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 of that, so let's call it 1200 people. Of those 300 or so are not going to be on the first train that arrives in the station (they will either be on the train that leaves ahead of it or the one that arrives behind it). So we've got about 900 people to fit into half a train. A whole train holds 2000. Not a problem.

 

You really think they're going to disperse if a train is sitting there? Everybody will go through the first door they get to. In the PM, everyone will try to fit into the car where the closest stair to the ferry will be.

 

Of course it's not pretty. People are asses. Every see Union Square with a delay in n/b express service during the morning rush? People fill the platform, the stairs, the upper mezzanine and sometime back up almost to the Broadway line - all the time fighting with the Transit workers put there for crowd control.

 

Of course they want to be indoors when it rains - that's why the current entrance to the 1 is so nice - It's in the Ferry Terminal! But this is silly. Even with the new station, R/W riders will still be running in the rain, since the entrance will remain where it is - outside of the Terminal. The 12 foot wide covered walkway is not going to keep many people dry, especially when hundreds of them are running for the stairs.

 

Sorry - if they can rebuild 72/B'way to make the platform wider and rebuild South Ferry because gap fillers are dangerous, then Union Square shouldn't be a problem.

 

You know something? The new station hasn't opened yet. So I don't see your arguments effective unless there is a comparison by the public to see which is better. Sure the station is deeper. Sure it has no entrance inside the terminal, sure it can't really do much to increase the frequency. However, trains do not have to utilise that sharp curve which could only hold one train. This stub end station can hold two trains. Train crews may want a station where they could stop longer after a run.

Cynical people condemn every project that the MTA embarks on. While it may not be a worthy investment, this project proves to me and to a lot of people that the MTA is ACTUALLY doing something. The money actually goes somewhere other than fattening certain people's wallets. We are in the 21st Century and as we are speaking, many cities and systems around the world are overtaking us in subway construction and also technology. We haven't had a single new station since the 1980's. Regardless of what way it is, it is time to move on.

[Trainmaster5]

And since we know that the current station has the capability of having two - since it did during the Ferry Terminal reconstruction... And will we be opening new exits at every other station with a single entrance?

 

 

 

 

Biggest Ferry holds 6000 people. During the AM rush, it is usually 3/4 full. The 1 gets somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 of that, so let's call it 1200 people. Of those 300 or so are not going to be on the first train that arrives in the station (they will either be on the train that leaves ahead of it or the one that arrives behind it). So we've got about 900 people to fit into half a train. A whole train holds 2000. Not a problem.

 

You really think they're going to disperse if a train is sitting there? Everybody will go through the first door they get to. In the PM, everyone will try to fit into the car where the closest stair to the ferry will be.

 

 

 

Of course it's not pretty. People are asses. Every see Union Square with a delay in n/b express service during the morning rush? People fill the platform, the stairs, the upper mezzanine and sometime back up almost to the Broadway line - all the time fighting with the Transit workers put there for crowd control.

 

 

 

Of course they want to be indoors when it rains - that's why the current entrance to the 1 is so nice - It's in the Ferry Terminal! But this is silly. Even with the new station, R/W riders will still be running in the rain, since the entrance will remain where it is - outside of the Terminal. The 12 foot wide covered walkway is not going to keep many people dry, especially when hundreds of them are running for the stairs.

 

 

 

 

Sorry - if they can rebuild 72/B'way to make the platform wider and rebuild South Ferry because gap fillers are dangerous, then Union Square shouldn't be a problem.

 

The 14th St-Union Square IRT station was extended once to allow for 10 car trains, in the process eliminating the 18th St station. Southbound it doesn't appear feasible to extend the platform in either direction to get enough room to eliminate the gap fillers. It WAS done at Brooklyn Bridge years ago by extending the platforms at the north end of the station but the configuration at 14th St-Union Square is a tougher nut to crack.

[MTR Admiralty]

I know this is a little off topic, but does anyone know why they didn't connect the new South Ferry station with the Lexington Line?

 

Bowling Green?

The Battery Park entrance of the new station is actually around 50 feet from the Bowling Green station on State Street (the old style kiosk), but I am not sure if they are going to connect them.