120 Protesters Demand B64 Restoration in Bath Beach

[BrooklynBus]

Protesters in front of the depot (Photo: Allan Rosen)

 

 

"Last week, I had to conduct some business at the courts in Downtown Brooklyn. The trip going there using a bus and train, and two trains and a bus to return home, including the two minutes I spent at the court, took me less than 90 minutes. That was fabulous, but mass transit is often not that quick in New York City, especially when the bus you used to rely on no longer operates and you need to find alternatives.

Today, bus riders are still reeling from the effects of 36 bus routes eliminated in June 2010. Last month, Sheepshead Bites held a Transit Town Hall, primarily to ask for restoration of the B4 cut. Last Saturday was Bensonhurst’s turn.

 

Assemblyman Colton speaks to a reporter. Photo: Allan Rosen

 

 

Demonstrators gathered at Ulmer Park Depot, 25th Avenue near Cropsey Avenue, at 11:00 a.m. to protest the cutback of the B64 bus from Coney Island to 25th Avenue. The western terminus of the route is in Bay Ridge. The community last protested this service cut shortly after it occurred back in June 2010. Hopefully, this protest will be more successful. It had the support of Local 100 of the TWU, which promised to support restoration of all the 2010 service cuts. Approximately 50 of the demonstrators were Local 100 members. I previously wrote about the B64 just under a year ago and again when discussing the MTA’s evaluation of these service cuts last October.

 

http://www.sheepshea.../#disqus_thread

[NX Express]

Why did it take them so long to organize this?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A better question is why are so many of the worst run routes out of Ulmer Park??? The B4 ran horribly for years when out of Ulmer Park. It only got better when Jackie Gleason took over the line for a while. Seems like a lack of supervision as BrooklynBus pointed out is also an issue for several routes out of Ulmer Park.

[Shortline Bus]

Why did it take them so long to organize this?

 

 

Hey better late than never. Maybe they had the case of oversleeping aka Rip Van Winkle lol.

Seriously, I think Bensonhurst and Sheapshead Bay residents IMO did not take serious the June '10 Doomsday Cuts. And when they did occur, they thought their local political officals i.e City Council, State Assembly Members, etc. would "bail them out." I could be wrong as i no longer live in SW Brooklyn but my guess from reading articles on the story is the big factor in the case.

 

Again The "B4" Knapp Street terminal should have never lost 7-day service. Only late evenings i.e after 11pm Monday-Saturdays and after 10pm Sunday Nights shoud been cut. While rest of nite run between Sheapshead Bay Station and Bay Ridge. In worst case, the full time termnial should be Sheapshead Bay station and not in middle of nowhere in back of CI Hopstial.

 

Ditto for the "B64." Even with rush hour B82 Limited service, riders traveling between Stillwell Terminal and Bay Parkway (either by the station or Caser's Bay)i am sure waited for a while i.e sometimes as much as 20-30 minutes even during peak times w/ bus bunching.

assumed everyone would use either the or B82. Wrong. At very least the B64 should still serve Stillwell Terminal full time. The only B64 cut, if needed was maybe overnight service between 1-5am since it very light ridershipalong Bay Ridge Avenue. Also to increase ridership have the B64 if it returns running to CI, run on Cropsey to serve the Pathmark/Home Depot Shopping Center. Harway/Stillwell othen then school is open is dead rest of time.

 

Hopefully with near record ridership systemwide and economy taking baby steps to improving, the B4 and B64 cuts would be among the first restored, if and when the goes in that direction.

[BrooklynBus]

The doomsday cuts were not taken seriously because the public notice was insufficient and no one realized the severity of the cuts. Instead of having individual notices for neighborhoods or even one per borough, there was one notice for the entire city which said was merely entitled service changes on the following routes: followed by a list of bus route numbers in 12 point type. It was no different in format from temporary reroutes. They didn't even describe in detail the parts of the routes that were being eliminated.

 

The media also didn't help by only focusing on the student pass issue. Courier Life ran a full page article only after I sent them a letter asking why they were ignoring such an important story. Virtually all the press occurred after the changes, not before.

 

I don't see how running the B64 on Cropsey woud increase patronage. If someone coud use the B64 on Cropsey, they could also take the B82. They need it on Harway because the blocks from Cropsey to Harway are very long and the seniors can't walk to Cropsey for the B82.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

The doomsday cuts were not taken seriously because the public notice was insufficient and no one realized the severity of the cuts. Instead of having individual notices for neighborhoods or even one per borough, there was one notice for the entire city which said was merely entitled service changes on the following routes: followed by a list of bus route numbers in 12 point type. It was no different in format from temporary reroutes. They didn't even describe in detail the parts of the routes that were being eliminated.

 

The media also didn't help by only focusing on the student pass issue. Courier Life ran a full page article only after I sent them a letter asking why they were ignoring such an important story. Virtually all the press occurred after the changes, not before.

 

I don't see how running the B64 on Cropsey woud increase patronage. If someone coud use the B64 on Cropsey, they could also take the B82. They need it on Harway because the blocks from Cropsey to Harway are very long and the seniors can't walk to Cropsey for the B82.

 

There were neighborhood specific notices, at least for me. In Co-op City there were signs at every stop showing the rerouting of buses that would lead to quicker rides in/out of section 5. I did not see anything about Queens or Brooklyn on those signs. I do believe there was a sign showing other Bronx cuts which didn't need to be diagrammed as they were losses of scheduled service instead of reroutes.

[checkmatechamp13]

Hopefully with near record ridership systemwide and economy taking baby steps to improving, the B4 and B64 cuts would be among the first restored, if and when the goes in that direction.

 

 

Ridership is actually declining on the bus system and has been doing so for years. The only reason overall ridership is up is because of the subway.

 

The media also didn't help by only focusing on the student pass issue. Courier Life ran a full page article only after I sent them a letter asking why they were ignoring such an important story. Virtually all the press occurred after the changes, not before.

 

 

I'm not sure about that. Out here in SI, I think the primary issue was the actual cuts. I think I was the only one who showed up to speak specifically about Student MetroCards, but other than that, it was just given a passing mention by elected officials, and a couple of other people mentioned it when they were done talking about whatever route they wanted saved.

 

I heard the Brooklyn hearing went on until 1AM or something. I'd have a hard time believing that most of it was due to people talking about Student MetroCards (which of course, I agree should've been saved)

 

I don't see how running the B64 on Cropsey woud increase patronage. If someone coud use the B64 on Cropsey, they could also take the B82. They need it on Harway because the blocks from Cropsey to Harway are very long and the seniors can't walk to Cropsey for the B82.

 

 

It wouldn't increase patronage, but I doubt it would decrease it. I don't think it's that much further to walk to Cropsey Avenue.

[BrooklynBus]

There were no neighborhood specific notices in Brooklyn. They did ones for Co-Op City because the rides in and out of section 5 became quicker. They were trying to publicize the positive aspects. They were not anxious to publicize the negative.

 

If running the B64 on Cropsey instead wouldn't increase patronage, why move it? Why not just leave it where it was?

 

I was at the Brooklyn hearing. About half the people talked about the routes, but just as many talked only about the student passes. Channel 11 was the only station that covered it and they only showed the student rumble when several were forceably removed by police. It ended around 11 PM not 1 AM, because many intended speakers went home because they couldn't wait three hours to speak. If you were one of the first ones to sign up, you still had to wait at least one hour because all the elected officials spoke first since they are too important to be kept waiting. Since it was supposed to be a "public hearing" that fact alone was very unfair. Someone even complained that many could not attend because the trip to the museum required two buses and a train and double fare for many.

[checkmatechamp13]

SMH at "too important to be kept waiting". Some of them couldn't even bother to show up, and their representative came, cut in front of everybody, and then went home.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There were no neighborhood specific notices in Brooklyn. They did ones for Co-Op City because the rides in and out of section 5 became quicker. They were trying to publicize the positive aspects. They were not anxious to publicize the negative.

 

If running the B64 on Cropsey instead wouldn't increase patronage, why move it? Why not just leave it where it was?

 

I was at the Brooklyn hearing. About half the people talked about the routes, but just as many talked only about the student passes. Channel 11 was the only station that covered it and they only showed the student rumble when several were forceably removed by police. It ended around 11 PM not 1 AM, because many intended speakers went home because they couldn't wait three hours to speak. If you were one of the first ones to sign up, you still had to wait at least one hour because all the elected officials spoke first since they are too important to be kept waiting. Since it was supposed to be a "public hearing" that fact alone was very unfair. Someone even complained that many could not attend because the trip to the museum required two buses and a train and double fare for many.

 

 

I would have to agree with you on a number of fronts. The time that the hearings were held was terrible. I had to leave my office early to attend and was on a SRO X10. At least they had shuttles running so you didn't have to schlepp to get to the auditorium of CSI where the they had the hearing.

 

I also agree that it was a hassle signing up. I had to wait in a long line to sign up to speak.

 

Finally I would also agree that folks weren't aware of how severe the cuts were. They're crying now, but they should've been making a stink beforehand. I think many folks really didn't believe that these cuts would happen because some of them are so vital to the communities that they serve and they have left communities quite altered and dead as a result. Not only are some communities not as vibrant, but they are suffering economically as well.

 

I also don't understand why the unions over at Ulmer Park are saying that they're so behind the community in restoring the cuts when they were part of the reason why service was so poor for so many years on some lines. Do they not realize that drivers running hot or going MIA affected ridership?? Now yes, I know some buses were pulled by management, but that doesn't explain the overall poor reliability of buses on some routes.

 

 

Ridership is actually declining on the bus system and has been doing so for years. The only reason overall ridership is up is because of the subway.

 

Yes, this is no secret. Ridership has been declining for years because the has been providing atrocious service for years on some lines (as in unreliable service). Poor service = declining ridership.

 

You don't just cut service without trying to examine why ridership is declining if you really care about ridership on buses.

 

I'm not sure about that. Out here in SI, I think the primary issue was the actual cuts. I think I was the only one who showed up to speak specifically about Student MetroCards, but other than that, it was just given a passing mention by elected officials, and a couple of other people mentioned it when they were done talking about whatever route they wanted saved.

 

Well on Staten Island, buses were talked about more simply because Staten Island depends heavily on buses since there are no subways.

 

I heard the Brooklyn hearing went on until 1AM or something. I'd have a hard time believing that most of it was due to people talking about Student MetroCards (which of course, I agree should've been saved)

 

How could you have a hard time believing that most of it was due to people talking about Student MetroCards if you didn't attend or even watch the event? The Brooklyn hearing was about a series of issues... Yes folks were very vocal about bus service, but Student MetroCards were also discussed.

 

 

It wouldn't increase patronage, but I doubt it would decrease it. I don't think it's that much further to walk to Cropsey Avenue.

 

 

You're not a senior. It isn't that much further for you, but for others it is. A senior with a disability, which I see plenty of riding the buses would disagree.

[Acela Express]

Yes, this is no secret. Rideship has been declining for years because the has been providing atrocious service for years on some lines (as in unreliable service). Poor service = declining ridership.

 

I would love to see MTA release their real numbers aside from what they've publicly posted last month, because according to them it's only the number of folks PAYING, and with farebeating on the rise, who knows what the actual numbers are. It shows the B82 ridership has declined, which I highly doubt.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) I would have to agree with you on a number of fronts. The time that the hearings were held was terrible. I had to leave my office early to attend and was on a SRO X10. At least they had shuttles running so you didn't have to schlepp to get to the auditorium of CSI where the they had the hearing.

 

I also agree that it was a hassle signing up. I had to wait in a long line to sign up to speak.

 

2) Yes, this is no secret. Rideship has been declining for years because the has been providing atrocious service for years on some lines (as in unreliable service). Poor service = declining ridership.

 

You don't just cut service without trying to examine why ridership is declining if you really care about ridership on buses.

 

3) Well on Staten Island, buses were talked about more simply because Staten Island depends heavily on buses since there are no subways.

 

4) How could you have a hard time believing that most of it was due to people talking about Student MetroCards if you didn't attend or even watch the event? The Brooklyn hearing was about a series of issues... Yes folks were very vocal about bus service, but Student MetroCards were also discussed.

 

5) You're not a senior. It isn't that much further for you, but for others it is. A senior with a disability, which I see plenty of riding the buses would disagree.

 

 

1) There was nothing wrong with the timing. People assumed that you have to show up exactly when the hearing starts which definitely isn't the case. You could moze on in at whatever time you want and sign up to speak.

 

If they had started the hearing later, you would've had more people who wouldn't get a chance to speak. You know what time the hearing ended? 11:45PM. If you have to go to work the next day, you're not going to want to stay out until 12:45 or 1:45 just because some people couldn't make it in time, and so you wouldn't have a chance to make your voice heard.

 

As for signing up, you could do that in advance (online). I did that, but they lost my registration so I had to register again. I came in at 7:20, and I had something to do from 8:00 - 9:00 (on the campus), so I decided to stick around, and then I came back around 9:15, and at around 9:40, I got fed up and said "Look, I signed up in advance because I didn't want to stay here until the middle of the night to speak. It's not my fault the MTA lost my registration" and they put me in ASAP.

 

My point is that it was a PITA, but it wasn't because of the actual procedures (starting at 6PM and having everybody sign up to speak). It was because they didn't get out the word that there were ways around them.

 

2) Well, apparently it was a secret to him.

 

3) In the other boroughs, the cuts overall were worse, and yet it sounds like more people spoke about Student MetroCards in the other boroughs.

 

4) You're kidding me, right? I said I had a hard time believing that it was the case. I didn't say I knew it was the case. I could also say I have a hard time believing that we put a man on the moon. I wasn't on the moon when it happened, but I still have a hard time believing it (I do believe it. I'm just using it as an example.)

 

5) Like I said, if that's the case, then we should be running buses down every street in the city. There are seniors all over the 5 boroughs (and don't say it's just on SI) that have to walk further than that to reach the bus.

 

In any case, it doesn't make a difference because I wasn't advocating for the route to be moved anyway. I was just disputing that one point.

 

I would love to see MTA release their real numbers aside from what they've publicly posted last month, because according to them it's only the number of folks PAYING, and with farebeating on the rise, who knows what the actual numbers are. It shows the B82 ridership has declined, which I highly doubt.

 

 

Back when they released the numbers when they did the hearings, they said that B82 ridership was down 3.1% from the previous year (and they were including farebeaters in that as well), so it's not completely out of the question that it could've declined 1.5% the way they said it did. In any case, it's only a small decline either way, but it'll give you a general idea of the ridership on the route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I would love to see MTA release their real numbers aside from what they've publicly posted last month, because according to them it's only the number of folks PAYING, and with farebeating on the rise, who knows what the actual numbers are. It shows the B82 ridership has declined, which I highly doubt.

 

 

Yeah, that is quite interesting indeed. Suddenly all of the routes across the city with the exception of the super routes are doing so poorly.

 

 

1) There was nothing wrong with the timing. People assumed that you have to show up exactly when the hearing starts which definitely isn't the case. You could moze on in at whatever time you want and sign up to speak.

 

Uh excuse me, unlike you, some of us have full time jobs, and yes, for those who couldn't leave work early it was a problem. I left my office at 16:00 that day. Normally I don't leave the office sometimes until 20:00, so speak for yourself. My normal time to leave is at 18:00 which is when many folks leave the office.

 

If they had started the hearing later, you would've had more people who wouldn't get a chance to speak. You know what time the hearing ended? 11:45PM. If you have to go to work the next day, you're not going to want to stay out until 12:45 or 1:45 just because some people couldn't make it in time, and so you wouldn't have a chance to make your voice heard.

 

Oh please... Load of crappola... I got to speak and when I was done I left. No one has to stay there the entire time.

 

As for signing up, you could do that in advance (online). I did that, but they lost my registration so I had to register again. I came in at 7:20, and I had something to do from 8:00 - 9:00 (on the campus), so I decided to stick around, and then I came back around 9:15, and at around 9:40, I got fed up and said "Look, I signed up in advance because I didn't want to stay here until the middle of the night to speak. It's not my fault the MTA lost my registration" and they put me in ASAP.

 

My point is that it was a PITA, but it wasn't because of the actual procedures (starting at 6PM and having everybody sign up to speak). It was because they didn't get out the word that there were ways around them.

 

You just proved my point. Signing up was a hassle because it was disorganized. If folks signed up online and then were forced to stand on line and sign up again, then that's a hassle.

 

3) In the other boroughs, the cuts overall were worse, and yet it sounds like more people spoke about Student MetroCards in the other boroughs.

 

Well who's fault is that? I mean you guys should've turned out more. I mean hell I'm not going to talk about Student MetroCards when I'm concerned about my express bus service being cut.

 

4) You're kidding me, right? I said I had a hard time believing that it was the case. I didn't say I knew it was the case. I could also say I have a hard time believing that we put a man on the moon. I wasn't on the moon when it happened, but I still have a hard time believing it (I do believe it. I'm just using it as an example.)

 

You have a hard time believing anything is the case unless you say it.

 

5) Like I said, if that's the case, then we should be running buses down every street in the city. There are seniors all over the 5 boroughs (and don't say it's just on SI) that have to walk further than that to reach the bus.

 

In any case, it doesn't make a difference because I wasn't advocating for the route to be moved anyway. I was just disputing that one point.

 

Yet again, you come up with that line. We're not talking about running buses down every street in the city. We're saying that the B64 should be put back where it was because of the fact that the line serves a lot of seniors who have difficulty walking. Obviously they have to walk already, but the point is not to make their commute even longer and more difficult than it already is. You're young so it is easy for you to say that having to walk a few more blocks isn't a big deal. When you're crippled and old it's a different story. Every block makes a difference and if you already have a hard time getting to the bus as it is, moving it further away certainly doesn't help.

[BrooklynBus]

You don't even have to be old and crippled. I had sciatica a few times for three months at a time and every step can be torture. I would have trouble just walking 600 feet to a bus stop. And what about someone who is young and temporarily on crutches? People who take buses where a subway is also an option, do not do it for speed. They are more concerned with comfort, I.e. not standing, steps, and walking to and from the bus. The system needs to be sensitive to those concerns.

[Shortline Bus]

You don't even have to be old and crippled. I had sciatica a few times for three months at a time and every step can be torture. I would have trouble just walking 600 feet to a bus stop. And what about someone who is young and temporarily on crutches? People who take buses where a subway is also an option, do not do it for speed. They are more concerned with comfort, I.e. not standing, steps, and walking to and from the bus. The system needs to be sensitive to those concerns.

 

 

 

Allan and others ideally the "B64" should return it's pre June 2010 Stillwell terminal routing via Harway and Stillwell. I only suggested Cropsey as an alternative plan if it meant ridership would increase enough to warrant restoring service between Coney Island and 25th/Cropsey in Bensonhurst,

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You don't even have to be old and crippled. I had sciatica a few times for three months at a time and every step can be torture. I would have trouble just walking 600 feet to a bus stop. And what about someone who is young and temporarily on crutches? People who take buses where a subway is also an option, do not do it for speed. They are more concerned with comfort, I.e. not standing, steps, and walking to and from the bus. The system needs to be sensitive to those concerns.

 

 

Exactly. His remark is rather selfish and self centered around what "works" for him and how he can walk so far and yada yada yada. Anytime this issue is brought up, he starts talking about how we should run buses down every block, which is not what is being suggested at all. Now that you mention it, there was a young lady at the Town Hall Meeting that was talking about how difficult it was for her when she was on crutches with an injury because of the cut back to the B64 and how she had to take 3 or 4 buses because of the truncation of the route.

 

 

Allan and others ideally the "B64" should return it's pre June 2010 Stillwell terminal routing via Harway and Stillwell. I only suggested Cropsey as an alternative plan if it meant ridership would increase enough to warrant restoring service between Coney Island and 25th/Cropsey in Bensonhurst,

 

 

That's the thing though. I don't see how the ridership wasn't there to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, the truncation of the route is nothing more than an attempt to kill the route entirely.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Yeah, that is quite interesting indeed. Suddenly all of the routes across the city with the exception of the super routes are doing so poorly.

 

2) Uh excuse me, unlike you, some of us have full time jobs, and yes, for those who couldn't leave work early it was a problem. I left my office at 16:00 that day. Normally I don't leave the office sometimes until 20:00, so speak for yourself. My normal time to leave is at 18:00 which is when many folks leave the office.

 

3) Oh please... Load of crappola... I got to speak and when I was done I left. No one has to stay there the entire time.

 

4) You just proved my point. Signing up was a hassle because it was disorganized. If folks signed up online and then were forced to stand on line and sign up again, then that's a hassle.

 

5) Well who's fault is that? I mean you guys should've turned out more. I mean hell I'm not going to talk about Student MetroCards when I'm concerned about my express bus service being cut.

 

6) You have a hard time believing anything is the case unless you say it.

 

7) Yet again, you come up with that line. We're not talking about running buses down every street in the city. We're saying that the B64 should be put back where it was because of the fact that the line serves a lot of seniors who have difficulty walking. Obviously they have to walk already, but the point is not to make their commute even longer and more difficult than it already is. You're young so it is easy for you to say that having to walk a few more blocks isn't a big deal. When you're crippled and old it's a different story. Every block makes a difference and if you already have a hard time getting to the bus as it is, moving it further away certainly doesn't help.

 

 

1) Who said anything about routes doing poorly? Even if ridership did go down as much as the MTA said, the B82 still has very high ridership and is very cost-efficient.

 

2) Are you blind????? I said YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO LEAVE WORK EARLY. If you left at 18:00, which was your normal time, you would've gotten there at 19:30 or 20:00 at the latest and there would've been no problems. You chose to arrive at the meeting on time, and if you lost wages because of that, that's on you.

 

3) Uh, yeah if you didn't get to speak, you'll have to stay until the end of the meeting to get a chance to speak.

 

4) Alright, then it was a hassle.

 

5) BrooklynBus said that there were a bunch of people talking about Student MetroCards at the Brooklyn hearing, and you agreed with him. Aside from that, there were protests and all that, so we got our point across. The last I checked, I've had a Student MetroCard for the past year, so obviously they weren't cut, now were they?

 

6) Yeah, OK.

 

7) Once again, was I asking for them to reroute the route? No, I wasn't. I was asking them to bring it back exactly the way it was. It's just that one of the reasons wasn't seniors being able to walk it. Who the hell cares what the reason is? The point is I want it brought back the way it was.

 

Exactly. His remark is rather selfish and self centered around what "works" for him and how he can walk so far and yada yada yada. Anytime this issue is brought up, he starts talking about how we should run buses down every block, which is not what is being suggested at all. Now that you mention it, there was a young lady at the Town Hall Meeting that was talking about how difficult it was for her when she was on crutches with an injury because of the cut back to the B64 and how she had to take 3 or 4 buses because of the truncation of the route.

 

 

It doesn't just "work" for me. It works all across the city. The distance between Ocean Avenue & Nostrand Avenue is 1/2 mile. The distance between Harway Avenue & Cropsey Avenue is 1/4 mile at the widest point.

 

Like I said, it's a moot point because I didn't want it rerouted anyway. I wanted it put back the way it was. Who the hell cares what my reason for wanting it is?

[BrooklynBus]

 

That's the thing though. I don't see how the ridership wasn't there to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, the truncation of the route is nothing more than an attempt to kill the route entirely.

 

 

Okay, it was around 1975, but when i did my B64 origin destination survey for the Department of City Planning, at 9 AM and at 3 PM there were busloads full transferring between the B64 and the B74. The B64 had a full load leaving Coney Island at that time with school students going from Coney Island to Dewey and Lafayette High Schools. I'm not sure how much has changed since, but even if they decided to truncate the route I don't see how they couldn't add some school specials. Someone stated at the protest that there are now a thousand kids walking from the B82 to Dewey which they didn't have to do before.

 

They still run the B36 pre-1978 route once a day from Coney Island along Neptune to Bay Academy at East 14th Street at 9 AM and 3PM. It may only be running just because the Operations Planning may not realize it still runs. In 2004, I had a discussion with the then head of bus service planning and he was arguing with me that they no longer run that bus. They still do! I actually saw it a few weeks ago at 2:55 PM and the sign is still up in front of the school. It is yellow with black letters and is called B36. There even is a guide a ride for the one trip. Since the B4 was discontinued on Neptune, it now runs non-stop from Ocean Parkway to the school along Neptune.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) Who said anything about routes doing poorly? Even if ridership did go down as much as the MTA said, the B82 still has very high ridership and is very cost-efficient.

 

Do you see your name quoted in my comment??

 

2) Are you blind????? I said YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO LEAVE WORK EARLY. If you left at 18:00, which was your normal time, you would've gotten there at 19:30 or 20:00 at the latest and there would've been no problems. You chose to arrive at the meeting on time, and if you lost wages because of that, that's on you.

 

You are amazing. Who are you to dictate what works and doesn't work with other people's schedule?? I know what time I left and I left the office at the time I did because I wanted to be there when the hearing started because I wanted to say my piece and leave at a reasonable hour so that I could go home and tend to other things that I had to do. Meetings like those tend to die down after a while so it is better to come at the beginning and then leave once you've had enough.

 

 

5) BrooklynBus said that there were a bunch of people talking about Student MetroCards at the Brooklyn hearing, and you agreed with him. Aside from that, there were protests and all that, so we got our point across. The last I checked, I've had a Student MetroCard for the past year, so obviously they weren't cut, now were they?

 

Listen, you brought up the fact about how there weren't many people at the SI hearing talking about Student MetroCards and I replied that "Who's fault is that?", so I don't know what you even brought it up for. Like I said, if students on Staten Island were so concerned about their MetroCards then they would've came to the hearing in larger numbers. That was the point. Then you go bringing up what happened at the Brooklyn hearing.

 

7) Once again, was I asking for them to reroute the route? No, I wasn't. I was asking them to bring it back exactly the way it was. It's just that one of the reasons wasn't seniors being able to walk it. Who the hell cares what the reason is? The point is I want it brought back the way it was.

 

Fine, but stop bringing up this nonsense, exaggerating about folks wanting buses running down every street when we talk about how bus service isn't convenient. Not everyone lives in checkmate's world.

 

It doesn't just "work" for me. It works all across the city. The distance between Ocean Avenue & Nostrand Avenue is 1/2 mile. The distance between Harway Avenue & Cropsey Avenue is 1/4 mile at the widest point.

 

 

No, you're confusing a guideline as something that supposedly "works" because the believes that it works across the city. That doesn't mean that it automatically "works".

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Do you see your name quoted in my comment??

 

2) You are amazing. Who are you to dictate what works and doesn't work with other people's schedule?? I know what time I left and I left the office at the time I did because I wanted to be there when the hearing started because I wanted to say my piece and leave at a reasonable hour so that I could go home and tend to other things that I had to do. Meetings like those tend to die down after a while so it is better to come at the beginning and then leave once you've had enough.

 

3) Listen, you brought up the fact about how there weren't many people at the SI hearing talking about Student MetroCards and I replied that "Who's fault is that?", so I don't know what you even brought it up for. Like I said, if students on Staten Island were so concerned about their MetroCards then they would've came to the hearing in larger numbers. That was the point. Then you go bringing up what happened at the Brooklyn hearing.

 

4) Fine, but stop bringing up this nonsense, exaggerating about folks wanting buses running down every street when we talk about how bus service isn't convenient. Not everyone lives in checkmate's world.

 

5) No, you're confusing a guideline as something that supposedly "works" because the believes that it works across the city. That doesn't mean that it automatically "works".

 

 

1) No, but the comment was just wrong. You said all the non-super routes are supposedly performing poorly and I'm pointing out that it's not the case.

 

2) Yeah, and it's alright for people to stay past midnight, right? Talk about dictating other people's schedules. If it started later, it would end later, and that means that either people would've wasted their time showing up because they wouldn't have a chance to speak, or they would've had to stay later if they did want a chance to speak.

 

3) Yeah, because what happened at the Brooklyn hearing was what we were discussing. All I said was that Student MetroCards weren't the largest issue at the SI meeting, and I assumed it was that way at the Brooklyn meeting. Then you're the one coming in about "Who's fault was that?". Who the hell cares? It's over. We kept our Student MetroCards and SI students just didn't happen to play a large role in the process. Apparently students from Brooklyn played a big role and it's good that we made our voice heard and got to keep them.

 

4) No, because in most cases, if we were to bring the buses closer, that's exactly what we'd be doing. The major streets tend to be spaced 1/2 mile apart, and if the buses are closer than that, there's usually a good reason (i.e. hills). Since the buses are so inconvenient, tell me where you would put a bus between the Glenwood Road & Avenue D? Or between Jewett Avenue & Manor Road (and don't start talking to me about weekend service because that's not what we're discussing. I agreed that they should have weekend service.) Those streets are 1/2 mile apart, and nobody seems to be complaining. If you put a bus down between those streets, it would meander like there's no tomorrow down a bunch of little side streets.

 

5) Transit agencies across the country use that guideline. Not to mention the stuff I mentioned above.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) No, but the comment was just wrong. You said all the non-super routes are supposedly performing poorly and I'm pointing out that it's not the case.

 

No it isn't wrong because that seems to be what the is trying to allude.

 

2) Yeah, and it's alright for people to stay past midnight, right? Talk about dictating other people's schedules. If it started later, it would end later, and that means that either people would've wasted their time showing up because they wouldn't have a chance to speak, or they would've had to stay later if they did want a chance to speak.

 

When you start working professionally then you can talk about dictating schedules. The majority of the folks going to these hearings are WORKING folks and many of them on Staten Island could not attend because of the time that it started. Simple as that. I know because I had folks on the express bus thanking me for speaking up about the X16 since they couldn't go themselves. We're the ones who pay the majority of the taxes. The least they can do is be more considerate instead of having it so early.

 

3) Yeah, because what happened at the Brooklyn hearing was what we were discussing. All I said was that Student MetroCards weren't the largest issue at the SI meeting, and I assumed it was that way at the Brooklyn meeting. Then you're the one coming in about "Who's fault was that?". Who the hell cares? It's over. We kept our Student MetroCards and SI students just didn't happen to play a large role in the process. Apparently students from Brooklyn played a big role and it's good that we made our voice heard and got to keep them.

 

Then why bring it up then in the first place if it isn't a big deal or so bloody irrelevant as you're claiming now??

 

4) No, because in most cases, if we were to bring the buses closer, that's exactly what we'd be doing. The major streets tend to be spaced 1/2 mile apart, and if the buses are closer than that, there's usually a good reason (i.e. hills). Since the buses are so inconvenient, tell me where you would put a bus between the Glenwood Road & Avenue D? Or between Jewett Avenue & Manor Road (and don't start talking to me about weekend service because that's not what we're discussing. I agreed that they should have weekend service.) Those streets are 1/2 mile apart, and nobody seems to be complaining. If you put a bus down between those streets, it would meander like there's no tomorrow down a bunch of little side streets.

 

Who cares about that? We were talking about the B64 and how moving it to Cropsey would make it more inconvenient for many of its passengers. Then you come along talking about it wouldn't be that big of a deal in terms of walking and how we have guidelines all across the city. That's what the conversation was about, not this crappola above. If you really want to go by guidelines for everything, Staten Island wouldn't get some of the service that it does now.

 

5) Transit agencies across the country use that guideline. Not to mention the stuff I mentioned above.

 

 

And that still doesn't mean that it works. Guidelines are revised all the time for that very reason because there are always exceptions to the rule.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) When you start working professionally then you can talk about dictating schedules. The majority of the folks going to these hearings are WORKING folks and many of them on Staten Island could not attend because of the time that it started. Simple as that. I know because I had folks on the express bus thanking me for speaking up about the X16 since they couldn't go themselves. We're the ones who pay the majority of the taxes. The least they can do is be more considerate instead of having it so early.

 

2) Then why bring it up then in the first place if it isn't a big deal or so bloody irrelevant as you're claiming now??

 

3) Who cares about that? We were talking about the B64 and how moving it to Cropsey would make it more inconvenient for many of its passengers. Then you come along talking about it wouldn't be that big of a deal in terms of walking and how we have guidelines all across the city. That's what the conversation was about, not this crappola above. If you really want to go by guidelines for everything, Staten Island wouldn't get some of the service that it does now.

 

4) And that still doesn't mean that it works. Guidelines are revised all the time for that very reason because there are always exceptions to the rule.

 

 

1) Yeah, because they thought they had to be there as soon as the meeting started, which wasn't the case. If you don't want to leave work early, then just come at 8PM or 9PM or whenever you can make it. Problem solved.

 

2) Because it's relevant to the Brooklyn hearing. Didn't you read a word of what I said? I thought the Brooklyn hearing was the same, so that's why I brought up what happened at the SI hearing.

 

3) I already said that it should be kept the way it is. You even admitted that I said it. Who the hell cares why I think it should be left alone? All I'm saying is that the extra block of walking isn't one of the reasons.

 

And SI wouldn't get the service it does. Yeah, OK. We're beyond the guidelines in many cases. I wouldn't be asking for better east-west service if we were within the guidelines, now would I?

 

4) Name one case where the routes follow the guidelines (So don't being up areas like the South Shore) and yet people are extremely inconvenienced in terms of being able to access the route in the first place. (Not talking about the frequency of the route or the connectivity. Strictly in terms of access.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) Yeah, because they thought they had to be there as soon as the meeting started, which wasn't the case. If you don't want to leave work early, then just come at 8PM or 9PM or whenever you can make it. Problem solved.

 

Well even so that's when most of the important crappola happens anyway so naturally they would want to be there then.

 

2) Because it's relevant to the Brooklyn hearing. Didn't you read a word of what I said? I thought the Brooklyn hearing was the same, so that's why I brought up what happened at the SI hearing.

 

Well it wasn't, so now we can drop this convo already.

 

3) I already said that it should be kept the way it is. You even admitted that I said it. Who the hell cares why I think it should be left alone? All I'm saying is that the extra block of walking isn't one of the reasons.

 

Oh now who in the hell cares suddenly...

 

And SI wouldn't get the service it does. Yeah, OK. We're beyond the guidelines in many cases. I wouldn't be asking for better east-west service if we were within the guidelines, now would I?

 

4) Name one case where the routes follow the guidelines (So don't being up areas like the South Shore) and yet people are extremely inconvenienced in terms of being able to access the route in the first place. (Not talking about the frequency of the route or the connectivity. Strictly in terms of access.)

 

 

Well let's see... No North-South service from Forest & Broadway all the way until Forest & Decker on weekends for starters... Tell me how someone who lives along Manor Avenue would have "easy access" to bus service on the weekend if they wanted to go from West Brighton to Eltingville?? I rest my case.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Well even so that's when most of the important crappola happens anyway so naturally they would want to be there then.

 

2) Well it wasn't, so now we can drop this convo already.

 

3) Oh now who in the hell cares suddenly...

 

4) Well let's see... No North-South service from Forest & Broadway all the way until Forest & Decker on weekends for starters... Tell me how someone who lives along Manor Avenue would have "easy access" to bus service on the weekend if they wanted to go from West Brighton to Eltingville?? I rest my case.

 

 

1) What would they have missed? A bunch of politicians cutting in front of their constituents and acting like big shots? And in some cases, it wasn't even the politician speaking themselves.

 

If they really wanted to see the whole meeting, they could've just ordered a transcript and a video recording of it.

 

2) Yeah, says the one who was constantly harping on it in the first place.

 

3) Yeah, that was my position originally. Look for yourself.

 

4) Uh, that violates the guidelines, smart one. Is there a north-south route within 1/2 mile for those people? Didn't think so.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) What would they have missed? A bunch of politicians cutting in front of their constituents and acting like big shots? And in some cases, it wasn't even the politician speaking themselves.

 

Oh boy... I wonder if they'll still be "big shots" when you want their help. The only big shot was McMahon and we voted him out. I made sure I went and voted to ensure that he was ousted.

 

If they really wanted to see the whole meeting, they could've just ordered a transcript and a video recording of it.

 

Sorry, but no one is into the like that except for you...

 

4) Uh, that violates the guidelines, smart one. Is there a north-south route within 1/2 mile for those people? Didn't think so.

 

 

You said convenient... Tell me how one would conveniently get from West Brighton to Eltingville "conveniently" on the weekends if they live near Manor Road and Forest Avenue. Didn't think so.