TheSubwayStation

Does anybody know when the June MDBF will be released?

Okay . Just the combination of "the" and "seriouse" got me confused...

English, please?

The thing is, he always acts like he knows what he's talking about, but he's only sometimes accurate. Remember, this is the guy who said that R160s were coming to the line and the MTA wanted to retire the R68s. Maybe he's right this time, but that doesn't mean that I'm taking his word for it.

What do you see on the line? Laid up R32s?

Bedford Park Blvd - 2 Av 205 St - 2 Av Coney Island - Court St, local in Brooklyn via Manhattan Bridge riders needing Lower Manhattan are advised to transfer to the at Canal St

NEXT: trains can't cross the river using the 59 St and 53 St tunnels.

I see what you mean...What I mean by "going by personal experiences" goes back to the issue that bus proposal debates seem to be mainly about riders and what benefits them. People use their personal experiences to determine ridership patterns. On the other hand, with subway proposals (as I said), there is more to think about besides what's going to generate ridership. In the SAS thread, for example, I made a proposal to send the train to Brooklyn via Nassau St. This may sound crazy and "foamerish", but I considered sending the to 145 St. I didn't suggest it simply because I thought riders wanted 6 Av service, but because I didn't think there was room for the and on Nassau St without causing delays. I guess this is what we've just talked about, how there are limitations to subway proposals which present an extra challenge, changing the direction of the discussion.

This is a big part of what I was trying to say. With bus proposals, it feels like almost everything is based on people's personal experiences.

I see what you mean. I understand that you didn't mean to start a bus vs. subway argument. I do think that some of the SAS ideas actually did belong in that thread; just because the plan is set in stone doesn't mean that people can't say what they think the plan should have been. Some people had practical ideas that didn't include expensive fantasies. Yes, it's annoying when people say, "Just build a new tunnel to x location", but I don't think that's such a big problem because fantasy foam is basically the "common enemy" of NYCTF . As I was saying, with a few exceptions, not that many people dare to say anything foamerish because they know they will get bashed a LOT. I think the problem of fantasy foaming is a little bit exaggerated, as there always will be a few people with bad ideas, but it's pretty much understood that they don't know what they're talking about.

I understand what you mean. I wasn't trying to say that busfans are more argumentative people, but rather that the topic of bus proposals can lead to boring arguments. That's a good point that I hadn't really thought of. Or, as I was trying to say, most people don't even bother to post "foamerish" subway proposals because they're considered so obviously ridiculous. My post was definitely not directed at you, and I didn't mean to imply that people were argumentative simply because they're busfans. I guess this leads back to my general lack of bus knowledge, since I'm realizing that my judgements of bus proposal threads were based on much less experience than your judgements for example, since you actually follow the threads . Part of my frustration with bus proposal threads probably just comes from the fact that I'm a subway fan, and when I'm bored and looking for new content, and the only stuff that comes up is bus proposals, I can't find anything interesting to read . As I said, I realize that I'm quite biased...

I guess you're right that I'm a little bit ignorant about this topic, because I'm not very knowledgeable about bus routes. Maybe that means that I shouldn't even be commenting on this matter, but I still think some of my points were valid. I wasn't trying to say that busfans think they're experts and railfans don't. There are both busfans and railfans who think they're ridership experts, but my point was that most subway proposals are simply unfeasible, so fewer ridership arguments start. As far as subway proposals being easily ignored, I hope you understand what I mean: if someone were to suggest building a whole new tunnel and creating the (P) train for example, nobody would take it seriously. But with buses, you can create a whole new route without building a new tunnel, so many more proposals have to be taken seriously. My point is definitely not that busfans are foamers more often than railfans. Rather, I was trying to say that busfans have more freedom to propose their fantasy ideas without immediately being rejected as ridiculous. True. Well, this started when Trainmaster5 suggested that the subway section generally contains more fantasy foam. My point was that the subway section is less friendly to foaming because there are more limitations on what people can propose. I'm not trying to start a bus vs. subway war, but I just personally prefer the subway discussion so I expressed my opinions on it. I'm not pretending to be unbiased.

I don't know either, actually, but E-cam is a particular model of controller built by Adtranz.

What's with the propulsion on this R62A? (Video by Caitsith810) It seems to have gone through SMS, and had some work done on the motors. The Kawasaki R62s also sound a little more high-pitched after going through SMS; maybe because E-CAM controllers were installed (I think). I wonder what they changed about the R62A motors, though, since they already had E-CAM.

Here's my opinion on the matter (and part of why I prefer subway proposals): With the subway, there's a very limited amount of reasonable proposals that people can come up with, since there's a limited number of tracks and tunnels. That's why you get plenty of crazy and far-fetched subway proposals, but they're obviously impractical and can be fairly easily ignored. And, coming up with subway proposals gives you boundaries and challenges to solve, e.g. making sure there aren't too many trains on one track. WIth buses, though, you can theoretically put a bus on almost any street. So, naturally, someone's going to suggest it. In addition, unlike with the subway, it's harder to argue against proposals because there are fewer boundaries. Almost everything seems to get into an argument about what riders want, not what is feasible, since almost any route is feasible. Busfans (and railfans, for that matter) always seem to think they are experts on ridership, and there's hardly anything more pointless than a "Riders want this!" "No, riders want that!" debate.

Well, at least there are fewer subway proposal threads. The subway proposals are more ridiculous, but the bus proposals NEVER end.

Wow, the grammar in the MTA's service changes is getting worse and worse...

Thanks, although I'm trying to find slightly more recent footage.

Can anybody find any 1990s NYC subway footage aside from Trainluvr, Transitviews, and Yolticat's videos (which I've already watched)?

Doesn't that seem like a little too much service, though?

As NX Express said, this is a public forum, which your standards don't always apply to. We as members don't always get to decide who deserves respect and who doesn't.

As a certain person would say, "All you can say is word."

He's not thinking about the "people". That's my point... You know, Threxx, there's a certain level of respect that people should be given on the forums whether they seem to deserve it or not. Dare I said it, if you kept that in mind, you'd get into fewer arguments here...

I don't know exactly why, but the builders of the Fulton St line decided to put the express and local tracks on separate levels at Nostrand Av. Originally, Nostrand Av was planned to be a local stop, so there would be no inconvenience to riders.

I think Wallyhorse sees this "puzzle" differently...He thinks the point is to run service as efficiently as possible (from an operations standpoint), not as logically as possible (from a rider's standpoint). That's why he'll say things that make sense from an operations standpoint, e.g. "Extend the to Brooklyn to serve riders", but that will confuse the hell out of riders. It's not that he's a foamer, it's just that he doesn't really understand the purpose of this thread.