B35 via Church

The demand for the Q44 from areas south of Flushing, to The Bronx in general, isn't the issue; there are plenty folks riding to The Bronx from south of Flushing.... It's how deep into The Bronx is that demand warranted to/for, is the question.... With this Fordham extension bit though, I think some people, quite frankly, are treading down the path of flat out ignoring intra-Queens usage on the thing.... With the Q20's proposed truncation to Briarwood , even though its intra-Queens usage pales in comparison to the Q44, there's going to be that much more of a burden on the Q44 in & out of Jamaica.... The obvious/real issue is the basic lack of rail transit b/w the 2 boroughs. That would cause way more problems than is attempting to be solved with this extension to Fordham. For starters, they already plan on having the Q20 go Jamaica - Beechhurst, so to have Q44's from Jamaica split to end in Whitestone would massively overserve that immediate part of Queens.... I would end them there full time, if not for space issues.... Someone on reddit that supports the extension went as far as bringing up cutting the Bx9 back to Bronx Zoo... IDK if that's supposed to mean stopping it dead at Southern/Fordham, or running it down Southern to that entrance around 182nd, or what....

Wtf are they (the DOT) doing with Livingston Street..... Took the full B45 into Downtown earlier today...... Looks like they're going to (try to) E.L. Grant Hwy., Livingston Street.... In other words, do away with curbside bus stops for the Downtown bound buses & install islands in the middle of the street for buses to stop at.... I want to see how they're going to pull this off... Livingston doesn't have the width that E.L. Grant does.... EB traffic is going to have to be redirected onto Schermerhorn, or Atlantic (which is already a shitshow as it is).....

Yeah, I know about its usage to/from E. Midtown & how those EB buses pick up at that stop over there (especially if WB buses arrive in bunches, which is pretty common on that route)... My concern was runtime related. Now that I went back to check how they had buses (QT60) running to Jamaica Ctr., it shouldn't be much of a problem (could've sworn they had them turning off on Archer at Sutphin.... instead/apparently they had them go Hillside - 150th - Archer).... Who knows why they rescinded the original proposal to Jamaica Center... But yeah, I can also see people xferring off the Jamaica Center feeders to a Q60 of sorts. Regardless of what ends up happening with the Q20, I would try my hand at running Q60's to Jamaica Center. Worse.... They had the QT60 terminating at the Hunterspoint Ferry.

Quite honestly, I would've liked to have seen how the Q60 would perform if it were to run to Jamaica Center (over continuing to run it south of Archer, even still given the usage it does get).... With the previously proposed QT60 in the first draft, I didn't concur with the fact that they had it running to the Hunterspoint Ferry... The proposed diverting of it to Jamaica Center on the other end of the route, I didn't mind nearly as much.... If for not keeping the same/current routing, the conundrum I have, is whether: the route should serve E. Midtown and Jamaica Center the route should serve Jamaica Center, instead of E, Midtown For the latter, basically, would running it to Jamaica Center & all the other connections there, be worth the sacrifice for scaling the route back (on the other end of the route) from Manhattan, at say, Queensboro Plaza....

This is what we're going to get when we have transients or gentrifiers moving in to the city.... I've overheard this one group of people talking amongst each other on the coming home 2 Sundays ago, where one of them mentioned that they moved to Sterling Street... The one guy goes "Crown Heights right", She goes "no, Bed Stuy, by Empire".... They all go "Ohhhhhh", like some revelation was just brought upon them.... ...and I'm sitting across from them like .... you gotta be f***ing kidding me.... --------------- As far as Linden/Rogers. AFAIC, anything west of Nostrand in this part of the borough is Flatbush.... Linden/Rogers has a completely different "feel" (so to speak) than East Flatbush - even (still) given the amount of Whites & Arabs that are slowly starting to move into the (western) part of the neighborhood here.....

I've always suspected that....

Something else I'd do with the proposed B67 (if it's to terminate over there by the Sands gate of the Navy Yard {Sands st/Navy st}) is to have it parallel the proposed B27 b/w the Farragut houses & Downtown Brooklyn..... In other words, I would do away with having buses run along Jay St. north of Tillary.... Much of nobody is trying get to York st by bus & those folks that live in the Concord Village apartments don't use the buses (current B67/B69).... Those school kids in the immediate area walk to/from Downtown Brooklyn.... Having the proposed B67 run over the proposed B27 routing up there won't exactly be double the proposed service (of the B27), but it'll have it be that much closer to the amt. of service that those folks in the Farragut houses currently get with the current B57 & B62..... That routing (Tillary to Gold) is infinitely more useful.

Yeah, people were using Flushing as a bypass more than they were Park back around that time...

Yeah, at 26th & River, before it turns off for the Kroc Center. To your question, IDK (although I've thought about that, myself)....

It isn't a problem anymore, but back in the mid to late 2000's), traffic along Flushing was notoriously bad (to the point where you'd be in a dead standstill for minutes on end during peak hours), because people at an increasing rate were using it as an alternative to the BQE... It was then that I suggested that the B57 should be taken off Flushing (west of Classon) & ran on Park with the B62 instead, where it would remain until it hits Tompkins/Throop, where it would've then went back to utilizing Flushing, at-and-east-of Woodhull Hospital.... Being honest though, I still think the B57 would be more useful along Park b/w Classon & Tompkins/Throop, compared to remaining along Flushing b/w that same stretch......

I'd say it essentially is an Essex County redesign (still embarrassing that you forget to consider current routes in the network).... Guess using NewBus Newark (instead of NewBus Essex County, or something to that effect) has a better ring to it; marketing purposes.... The only way I'd support having the #31 serve S. Orange at this point, is if it goes on to serve (and eventually terminate) somewhere past it.... Basically, I don't agree with bothering to continue to have some trips end at S. Orange like they currently do.... St. Barnabas Hospital has a similar problem that Short Hills Mall has; in that it's a poor place to have a bus route end at.... I'd ideally like to have the #31 end at Short Hills, if it's going to run to past S. Orange..... Given what was just said in the above paragraph, instead of breaking up the #1 the way they propose, I would like to see how a #31 between Dover St. & JSQ would perform (basically a combination of the #31 & their proposed #4) - With the point being to make it more useful in the opposite direction of the route (east of Newark, as opposed to west of South Orange)..... The #31 is noticeably quicker than the #1 west of Newark-Penn & most folks that use either branch of the #1 in Jersey City that rides past Jersey City, typically ride no further than Broad..... I can concur with having the #1 be more focused in transporting folks b/w Ivy Hill & the Ironbound, but I can't concur with running one (let alone two) routes b/w Newark-Penn & Jersey City on shit headways like their proposed #3 & #4.... Something else that irks me is their proposed relegating of service for those Terrell homes residents (Chapel, north of Raymond) with a frickin industrial boomerang route (that proposed #9; the East Ferry - Wilson av. route via Newark-Penn).... Hmm... think I just stumbled onto a new term there.... gonna start using it from now on to describe those B24, Q38, NJT #452, etc. type of routes.... Boomerang route.

I'm trying to figure out what the "it" part of your inquiry is referring to, when you say - "What about it switching places with the B57 onto Flushing Avenue?" Given this latest reply, I guess you're suggesting that the B57 should remain on Flushing & that the B62 should remain on Park...

I favor option 2 also.... But in professing that, I still wouldn't have B62's running to Astoria.... Nor would I have buses running back & forth b/w Red Hook IKEA & the Farragut houses via Smith/Court (the proposed B27) throughout the day..... As for the B67, at best, I'd maybe consider ending where they plan on ending those proposed B27's, if it were to run past Jay/Sands..... Otherwise, I'd have it go right back to terminating at Jay/Sands full time... I wonder how many people in Williamsburg after all this time, even know that the B67 runs in their neighborhood (albeit not in the "trendier" portion of the neighborhood, but still).... Not sure what you're suggesting here....

I said, "I would much rather either have...." So, no. Nah.... and TBH, I would do away with having the current B67 run through there at this point.... The private Navy Yard shuttles get good usage, while the B67 through the Navy Yard basically carries air all day through there....

Being frank, I don't doubt for a second that the vast majority of people that are concerned about congestion pricing, would give much of a damn about how that money will end up being spent.... Imagine being robbed of cash by someone, to worry about where your stolen money would end up being spent - over having your money being stolen in the first place.... The immediate concern, which should be obvious, is that this will be yet another way to siphon money out of city residents...

While the proposed B62 & proposed Q69 wouldn't serve Queens Plaza, the connection between 21st/41st & Queens Plaza would still be had with the proposed Q63 (which would do the current Q66 routing between Queens Plaza & Broadway/Northern).... The connection between 21st/41st & Court Sq. would still be had with the proposed Q39.... So folks north of the Ravenswood PJ's along 21st st. seeking QBP, loses out. I'm less concerned with the decrease in service levels/BPH between [21st/41st] & [Queens Plaza], and are more concerned with nothing going WBP - LIC..... The proposed B62 bypassing WBP, QBP, and Court Sq. proper, to become more of a regional route by running up to Astoria, is going to be a deterrent... I would much rather either have: the proposed B62 broken up into: a combination of the proposed B27 & the proposed B62 b/w Downtown Brooklyn & Broadway, enroute to WBP a route running between WBP & Astoria PJ's, doing portions of the current B62 north of WBP & portions of the proposed B62 in Queens (with modifications) the proposed Q39 broken up into: the current Q39 from end to end a route running b/w WBP & Astoria PJ's, doing most of the proposed Q39 route north of Court Sq & most of the current B62 south of Court Sq. Just saw the new post notification as I was typing the above reply (which opines on your first question)..... As for the other question, nah.... Virtually nobody does that xfer scenario.

You have the folks getting off for the projects themselves, and... You have the folks xferring b/w the (Q66/69/100) & (the Roosevelt Island bound Q102 or the NB Q103) For the RI bound Q102, a decent amount of people don't bother with the hassle of trying to get from Queens Plaza south to Queens Plaza north (whether via the QBP overpass, or actually crossing the street{s}) to catch it... They find it more feasible to take a bus that's (already) on the Queens Plaza south side (Q66/69/100) to 21st/41st & xfer to the RI bound Q102 there... Of the 3 routes, the Q69 sees the most NB dropoffs there, given that it backtracks to serve Court Sq (incl. the schoolkid usage at 21st/44th dr.as well)..... Few people bother walking from Queens Plaza to 21st/41st - even if they're on/along Queens Plaza north.

What's the reasoning behind those relocations (and/or, why do you think/know those changes were made) ?

SB direction is mostly dropoffs, NB direction is much more of a mix of boardings & dropoffs.... NB direction has higher turnover than the SB direction, but turnover in general is quite low, as again, SB direction is mostly dropoffs & the NB direction is more boardings than dropoffs..... Usage in general is high, turnover is not (high).... They most certainly could.... They just don't want to run the M55 to Columbus Circle for that reason.... IDK how else to describe the M55, other than the fact that it just, well, exists.... That isn't to say nobody rides it, but I don't really see too many people specifically gunning for/relying on it; it's more or less just another bus (like, if it shows up, great, f*** it, I'll take it... That sort of thing).... The M5 GWB - South Ferry rendition of the route had more riders using it south of Greenwich Village, than is currently occurring/ongoing with the M55.... The situation with the B37 doesn't compare, though... The refraining of reviving the former B37 routing past Atlantic had to have been for performance related reasons; buses along Livingston even during rush hours carried air back when it ended with the B45.... It's not that they didn't fully revive the old B37 because they didn't want to have egg on their face (so to speak); as if to say Livingston was just bustling with ridership, thus, they should've left it alone... Lol.... - Not sure what you're asking there, TBH.... All I'm going to say here is that they had the proposed QT78 in the original draft running down 69th from Broadway to Metropolitan, serving Metropolitan av , to end at Fresh Pond rd... Of course, they also had this route going to Roosevelt Island - Lol, yeah, basically.... I'd have just left the thing at Norwood.

I certainly remember the Qm22.... (I) should've been more specific, by stating that I wonder how a local route would fare..... The Q101R was carved from the old rendition of the Q101 that ran from Manhattan to Rikers Island... When the Q101R was created: the Q101 remained running to Manhattan, but got cut back to 19th av. it (the Q101R) got a] bumped over to 21st st. & b] ran no further south than QBP So in short, the Q101R never ran to Manhattan & the Q101 always ran along Steinway st.... Neither of the old routings fulfilled my inquiry/inquisitivity... Your reply to my post is blank.

No, the waterfront didn't need its own route.... Astoria doesn't need a direct route to Downtown Brooklyn, either..... For all I care, they can do away with the waterfront service; the weakest portion of the current B32 is the Williamsburg segment..... The Greenpoint segment gets its riders, as current B62 service/reliability is abysmal...... At the same time, I still say they're ignoring the need for connecting WBP - LIC, just as much as they're ignoring the need to connect Astoria - 21st st & QBP (both the proposed B62 & proposed Q69 bypass it).... It's one thing to try to declutter an area (QBP), but if you're sending buses directly to areas where there's even less of a demand to (B62 from Astoria to Downtown Brooklyn & Q69 to Hunters Point Ferry, both skipping QBP in the process), it defeats the purpose.... The current Q101 goes directly to Manhattan, but I would honestly like to see how a 21st st. service running to Manhattan would fare.....

Moderate usage. The point is that, with the proposed B62 bypassing WBP (due to racking up mileage to run up to the Astoria projects, among other things) & the proposed B53 turning off at Greenpoint av, there's nothing directly connecting WBP & LIC.... The irony here is that the lack of a connection from off the old B61 (Queens Plz - Red Hook) at WBP spurred complaints back then (hence, the current B62's diverting to serve WBP)... Doesn't help that the proposed B53 serves the waterfront, over directly serving commercial Bedford av. on top of it.....

Worse than half the waiting area... It's ridiculous... It's only the first 2 rows of seating proximate to the Atlantic av side of the terminal (meaning, proximate to the local routes on street level).... Was out in AC 2 Saturdays ago... Had to scurry to said seating area to sit down to sift through my bag (thought I lost something at the time).... Security was there, but dude didn't enforce shit (there were 2 people snoring their asses off, as a matter of fact - 1 guy with his mouth open... yuck).... I never got the sense that you have to have a ticket to sit down in those seats.... Now Penn Station (NYC), they are absolutely anal about having a LIRR ticket in order to sit in that sectioned off room/area of seating by the escalators....

I would do more with it.... One solution would be to run it to WBP; especially being that they have the proposed B62 bypassing it. The M55 terminates on 44th/6th... Ever since they split up the penultimate rendition of the M5 (Washington Hgts - South Ferry) into the current M5 & the current M55, the NB M7 in Midtown has seen a noticeable spike.... Although 42nd st. in general is a major street, folks riding along 6th are not getting on/off 42nd to the tune you might think they would.... 57th st & Columbus Circle easily sees more passenger activity on the M5 & M7 than 42nd on the M5/M7/M55.... So the way they ended up splitting the southern portion (as in, the current M55) of that rendition of the M5 in question, is a stub.... The M55 would be far more useful if it ran up to 59th, then stubbing over there 2 blocks north of 42nd..... ...to have that proposed B81 run past Pritchard Sq. to cover the rest of PPW. Regardless of that proposed B81 though, stopping the B61 dead at Pritchard Sq. is justified.... It's where the current B61 commonly tanks out.... The only problem I have with the proposed truncation is that it shouldn't terminate on the movie theater side of Pritchard Sq... It should terminate on the same side of Pritchard Sq, to where riders can feasibly xfer to the B68....

AFAIC, the current B57 from end to end is a massive waste of resources; the SB B57 is more or less an afterthought past Downtown Brooklyn; you don't see any real collective of riders specifically waiting for B57's in Downtown seeking SB service.... On top of it, it's usually stragglers left on the bus after it serves Downtown Brooklyn.... The masses in Downtown that are seeking service towards Cobble Hill, etc. essentially all gun for the B61.... So I'm most definitely not defending the current B57, if that's what you're trying to get at... I would only run the thing between Downtown Brooklyn & Flushing/Metropolitan av., at current headways.... I've always thought that the fact that service runs separately on uni-directional streets (Smith/Court) was a huge deterrent to Cobble Hill & Carroll Gardens patrons on the old B75 & the current B57..... Usage was never great on the B75 on that stretch (either direction) either..... It's definitively a stub, no doubt about it... The patrons of the area will tell you that. Aside from that, while I'm not all too high on the proposed B57, what I will say (if I haven't elsewhere on here already) is that the proposed B57 is a better use of resources than the current B57..... Interesting (as in, good) question.... I'd say in very very rare cases like the Bx36 in Soundview (even with the new routing, it's still a highly utilized route that doesn't need to run down to Clason Pt. with the Bx27/39 or to Castle Hill/Zerega with the Bx22)... Or maybe like with the Q49, where it doesn't need to pan east towards Flushing, nor northwards towards Ditmars Blvd (or LGA for that matter).... There's some that's done for logistical reasons like the Bx1 in Kingsbridge & the B35 in Brownsville, but even those are on the wrong side of the threshold of stub terminals IDRC for.... IDC for either of the two types mentioned... Stubbing a route somewhere because there happens to be another route that runs further in that same direction, doesn't cut it for me... For instance, the M55 should at least run to 59th (regardless if there's a multitude of routes running up/down 5th/6th).... Nobody on the Q18 cares that the Q67 continues down 69th st. to get to the .... LMFAO at the fact they stubbed the newest rendition of the Bx30 at Pelham Parkway (when riders are clearly still taking the Bee Line routes along Boston Rd. to get to Fordham Plaza)...