B35 via Church

Yeah, the B25 was slated for extinction back in 2010.

Alright, thank you.

The (official) fare free routes..... Are all the destination signs in green for those routes, or was the particular bus on the B60 I drove past coming home today an anomaly? It wasn't that half amber/half green shit you sometimes see on the (glitched/damaged/whatever the case is) front destination sign either.... It was more of a darker shade of green anyway & every single letter was that color....

They got the proposed Q104 serving (both ends of) Roosevelt Island & the proposed Q105 serving 31st, but nothing going Roosevelt Island - QBP.... While I think that current rider pattern on the Q102 is hit or miss, I don't necessarily think that connection should be completely eradicated/ignored/discontinued.... Then the question/problem becomes one of, having 2 routes access Roosevelt Island.... As far as Court Sq. vs Queens Plaza, they're just trying to lessen the amt. of buses that terminate around Queens Plaza.... If it's anything that's being overserved (or, attempting to be made more lit), is Hunters Point Ferry.....

Right, except you're defending the entirety of the proposed route, not just the portion that's being made direct between Rockaway Blvd. & the heart of Jamaica.... The proposed Q57 has no business being one route from end to end, save for the sake of being f***ing cheap..... ...and how exactly is comparing the [n22 & n24] to the [proposed Q57 & current Q112] a remotely equivalent comparison, when the proposed Q57 runs way past Brewer???? ...or have it be 2 separate routes to begin with, But apparently that's out of the question, b/c they don't want to provide necessary service on both routes.

The thing about bunching on the Q27 in my experiences, is that even if you miss out on any of the bunched trips, you're never really waiting all that long for the next bus.... To a greater extent, that very phenomenon used to occur over here with the B35 before the artic conversion.... Not that it'd happen (for reasons already mentioned), but the Q27, if it were to be converted, I think a ton of service would be cut from it.... I understand what the concept of choices/options/possibilities entail, that's not the issue here.... Again, the issue here is one of scope; you are & have been going rather hard for this Q57 to the bit & judging by your prior replies on this issue, it is as if you're conveying there's going to be this significant change in rider habits of that region of Queens.... I don't expect you to give an exact figure or percentage, but it's something to be said when you appear to be hell bent on any facet of the current network waning to support anything being proposed in this redesign... There are most certainly current commuting patterns that are a pain in the ass, but the commute to the for a SE Queens resident isn't one of them.... Not even remotely. To your question, I pay very close attention to (and take mental notes of) riders' complaints across multiple internet mediums (not just those on forums, but on blogs & on social media as well)... Not so much anymore, but I used to engage in e-mail correspondence with members of various community boards & those that would go to the meetings as well... Also, call this nosy or whatever, but I do hone in on people's transit related conversations while out & about when I'm on some bus or train.... You don't get high turnover at a terminal; you mean high usage.... Anyway, I'd say it's merely a case of Queens patrons simply not trying to get to Gateway like that; especially enough to warrant a bus route running there from Cambria Heights.

Remember that like it was yesterday..... Yeah, while each trip served both hospitals, alternating trips terminated at one of the 2 hospitals.... From Queens, you either had the trips that panned southward toward Goldwater (to eventually end at Coler), or the trips that panned northward toward Coler (to eventually end at Goldwater)...

There's something to be said about these transit agencies that come out with these redesigned networks, to then go dead silent after a relatively significant amount of time..... I'll say this much.... I'm all for progression & doing away with antiquity.... At the same time, my problem with these redesigns all of a sudden, is that they very much appear to be happening as part of a trend, more-so than them being done to (attempt to) enhance the commuter's commute/commuting experience.... Yeah yeah, covid, but this is what happens when you're reactive, instead of proactive; scurrying around like roaches when the light comes on, in a whimsical attempt to massively scale back on operating costs...

....which would be a repeat of history that led to the 's discontinuation in the first place. Don't miss that 1/9 skip-stop shit at all; especially in the waning months of the 's existence - where skip-stop got so sloppy, it was literally a guessing game as to which train (the 1 or the 9) was going to stop at the stop you needed up in Upper Manhattan - regardless of what trains were "supposed" to do, according to the schedule/subway map....

I personally don't have a problem with the proposed Q104, as I do see folks in RI, at the very least, taking those 104's to get to commercial Broadway (including getting to commercial Steinway st.).... It's one of the main reasons why I suggested that very thing happen for the Q104 on these parts over a decade or so ago... While I don't necessarily disagree about dismantling the current Q102, I've never been wild about "M35"-ing Roosevelt Island service (meaning, relegating it to a shuttle b/w it & QBP).... I especially hated that age-old proposal on these transit forums way back in the day, of extending the Red Bus to QBP... But yeah, I find that there are times where literally nobody gets on a Roosevelt Island bound Q102 at QBP & there are times where Q102's are crushloaded leaving QBP.... That ridership pattern is too hit-or-miss for my liking.... I don't have too strong an opinion one way or the other about that proposed Q105, largely because I think the current Q100's importance in the network has waned..... One of the rare instances where the MTA's slowly ran a corridor's skip-stop service (Q100) into the ground, to actually bolster a corridor's local service (Q69)..... So taking the Rikers Island service off 21st & having it run on 31st instead is just *whatever* to me...

Rode the Q102 from the Astoria PJ's yesterday.... This is the second time now that I've recently taken that route, where we rode through Roosevelt Island (I got off at {the south side of} QBP)... This is moot, being that the network's about to get revamped, but IDK what Q102's are (technically) supposed to do, as far as its terminal situation on that end of the route is concerned.... With Goldwater Hospital gone (and Cornell Tech being built the way it is), it's literally impossible for buses to terminate the way they used to.... So back in 2013/14 (whenever Goldwater closed for good) is when they had buses stopping dead at the Tram; that much I get..... However, I'm noticing buses that I've been on (and checking buses on bustime from time to time) are riding through the Tram, riding through Roosevelt Island in & of itself, to take longer layovers on the Astoria end of the route.... Speaking of terminal scenarios, the terminal & layover situation on the Astoria end of the route (with the Q18, 19, 102, and 103) now is another mess... Buses no longer make that right on 1st, right on 26th, right on 2nd, and make that left to get back to 27th... Instead (Lol), they make a LEFT on 1st, to double back on that cul-de-sac around the projects, to get back to 27th.... Buses physically layover on 27th av (same side of the projects), taking up most of the traffic lane, and all of the (unwarranted) bike lane.... Managed to find a google screenshot.... This is what I'm talking about... It's just 2 buses in that screenshot, but when I was out there yesterday, there were 4 buses lined up behind each other.... The Q102 I got on, was the 2nd bus in line... I wasn't paying attention, but somehow it managed to weave its way b/w the buses in front & behind it, to get to the bus stop to pick us all up... With the proposed network, they have the proposed Q18, 19, 39, and B62 running to the projects.... Looking at the proposed service levels for those 4 routes, it's easily set to be more proposed cumulative service on them, compared to that of the cumulative service on the current Q18, 19, 102, and 103.... In laymens, there would be an increase in BPH over there... Something's going to have to give.

Yeah, I've also made that point (about the malls) before you became a member on here.... What I more or less said was that, the thing with the current Q8 is that there's a very low amount of Queens residents taking it to get to Gateway.... Vast majority of Q8 usage to/from Gateway Mall are Brooklyn residents..... So being that they're cutting the footprint of the Q8 in Brooklyn by having it run to New Lots (which I can see riders along 101st benefiting from more, than service to Gateway Mall - similar to (but not to the extent of) how riders in the Rockaways take the Q35 to get to the ), they're trying their hand at connecting another general collective of Queens residents to Gateway Mall.... Which on the surface seems noble - however, I still don't see enough SE Queens patrons taking the Q51 to Gateway.... Hell, I even foresee more SE Queens patrons taking it to get to the over that of taking it to get to Gateway (which isn't saying much, being that I think both rider patterns would be quite low)...... Yes, it can beneficial for a minority of commuters.... That's not what's being contested here. Yeah, why go to the if it's currently cumbersome to do so - Especially when the is less out of the way for SE Queens residents than the is ! On top of that, if they're having all these red routes & purple routes in the SE Queens region drawn up with a purpose of getting to Jamaica area subways faster, why even consider the ? What you're not opining on here, is to what extent would current commuters resort to passing up the , for the sake of avoiding Jamaica to get to the Lefferts line.... Sorry not sorry, but latent demand, trumps the notion of *possibilities* & *options*..... Throwing shit on a wall & hoping that it sticks isn't, or shouldn't be how we go about drumming up a bus network (not saying that you're exactly saying that, but I'm still making that point for the purpose of emphasis)..... Who are (as in, How many of) these people in SE Queens that's been vying for direct service to the over the years - and especially for how long......

interesting how a couple years ago they were taking benches out of some subway stations; now I see they added new benches at platform level at Atlantic Av - right when you come up the steps as you're heading towards the back of a Canarsie bound train (or towards the front of a Manhattan bound train).... They also power washed the shit out the stairwells (front & back of all the steps... I saw the cleaning crews as they were doing it earlier this week), while painting said front & back end of the steps a forest green-ish color... ....now if they can only do something to keep them bums & other undesirables from hanging out by the back end of the steps (street level), as well trying to curb, or otherwise deter all them birds congregating around the immediate area... I still see sleeping pigeons at times above the LIRR tracks at the East New York station..... Yes, the area around Atlantic & LIRR East New York is filthy (some would even say sketchy, on top of it) in general, but the old Chinese lady coming around every so often, dropping bag loads of crumbs at this spot, before you get to the station steps in the morning, definitely does not help matters..... People used to dump bag loads of garbage and/or bags of clothes in that same spot, but apparently that has ceased, at least....

The subway system (as was said) and the express bus network.... Bear in mind that they were also looking to cut routes that paralleled subway lines back then....

...and how I'm looking at this side discussion at hand is that, simply put, SE-ern Queens patrons/commuters in general are not trying to get to the .... I see it as straight up wasteful to have either (and especially both) the proposed Q51 & proposed Q57 going about accomplishing that from their eastern end terminals.... Speaking as a Brooklynite, the has long had a tendency to slog along in Brooklyn; particularly from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Broadway Junction itself... I actually find the to move at a better pace in Brooklyn than the does.... In realizing that, I couldn't fathom a SE Queens resident abandoning a bus to the to the , to ride out on that proposed Q57 to Lefferts, to put up with more of the .... I said it once on here & I'll say it again... It's going to be a hard sell on the MTA's part to try to sell the as an option for SE Queens patrons.

Yeah, just shuttle buses running all over the place, due to all these G.O's.... The proposed Q57 is more direct than the current Q112 between the Lefferts branch & Jamaica.... However, the to the proposed Q57 or the current Q112 to get to Jamaica isn't more direct than xferring at Broadway Junction for the to Jamaica - regardless of how cumbersome the xfer from the lower level to the upper level is at that station.... The problem I'm having with your arguments has less to do their merits & more to do with how you're framing them..... Yes, options are great - just know that your preference & your perspective represents a minority.... You are, and have been, trying to paint the taking of the Lefferts branch to the proposed Q57 as if it would be more beneficial to the masses that are xferring at B'way Junction for the ..... That's the point of contention in this side discussion here....

I still do; just not in Mineola anymore.... Lol, yeah, there's always been that corner store on that corner... Practically everyone & their mammas stop off in there before they catch whatever bus or train to get to where they gotta get to in the morning..... The whole Lefferts branch was shot this past weekend also; 's from Manhattan weren't running past Euclid..... Was on the Q37 yesterday... Interesting to note that the shuttle bus was right behind us as we were entering the casino.....

Vast majority of people that board SB B46's or B47's along Broadway. don't get off along Broadway.... OTOH, turnover is relatively high on the EB Q24 at Broadway Junction.... In other words, the Broadway portion of the proposed B53 would mostly (directly) benefit folks along the more southeastern portion of Broadway.... Being perfectly honest, I always wondered how many more riders would consider the Q24 if it panned further north & west up Broadway.... Guess I'd find out, have this B53 come to fruition. Something to note, is that the proposed B53 & B66 both serve Broadway Junction & Williamsburg Bridge Plaza - with the B53 running past WBP, on up to Queens.... Outside of merely being cheap, I'm of the belief that the proposed B53 in its entirety is a (poor attempt at a) ridership grab.... At absolute best (or worst, depending on how you look at it), I would merely have this B53 existing for coverage purposes along Broadway, running b/w the 2 aforementioned terminals... Instead of the proposed B53, It is the proposed B66 that I would have running through WBP to pan northwards after the fact - as I see it attracting far more folks from their actual residences..... I'd end it at McCarren Park on the north end, via Driggs/Bedford.... Bear in mind that they have the proposed B62 bypassing WBP.... Even if the thought process is that the current B24 & B32 shouldn't continue to exist as is (which I would concur with), the way they're addressing matters with this proposed B53 is setting that route up for failure.... For one, while the proposed B53 takes over the current B24's Greenpoint av. segment, it's not going to attract the same riders that currently take the B32 b/w the & Greenpoint (the neighborhood).... Nobody in Greenpoint going home from work/school or whatever is going to take the way over to 46th st (or to Court Sq. for the proposed B62). to get to Greenpoint - even if they eliminate that stop at Jackson av/11th st from the proposed B62 (where those folks from off the at Vernon-Jackson walk over to, to catch the bus to get to Brooklyn)..... The amount of biking & walking over the Pulaski bridge is going to increase, if the proposed B53 becomes a reality...

That is exactly my problem with how they're opting to break up the current Q16.... The Q16 at its busiest is west of Francis Lewis, not east of it.... Fat chance the proposed Q61 & Q62 would spur significant enough growth from along Utopia & from along Willets Pt. blvd...... If it's any branch of the current Q16 that should be kept, it's the Willets Point branch (mainly because of its usage along Francis Lewis)..... It's enough that they got the proposed Q31 running up Utopia, way up to the Cross Island.... The current Utopia branch of the Q16 carries a lot more air throughout the day.... Yeah, I used to be a reverse peak commuter on the LIRR from East New York to Mineola... Sometimes I'd stop off at that infamous corner store at Sutphin/Archer, depending on which train I caught (usually was the 5:39am, if I just missed the 5:24am), so I'm well aware of what & how the immediate area around LIRR Jamaica is around that time of the morning.... To be clear, my last post isn't to say that the Q34 should be ignored (which it appears that's how you took it), my point is that the proposed Q61 isn't solely comprised of the portion of the current Q34 it would supersede (reading that side discussion would have someone think it is).... Quite frankly, I think the Q34 should be kept, without even having that proposed Q61 come to fruition - and not just because of said portion of the Q34 it would take the place of....

The focus in this discussion here is being had on the current Q34 (in regards to that proposed Q61), but AFAIC that proposed Q61 boils down to how they're deciding to break up the current Q16.... While I do think the Q16 should be broken up, the way they're doing it with the proposed Q61 & Q62 leaves much to be desired.... I don't see there being enough "there" there for a rush hour only service along Willets Point Blvd. to/from Flushing.... And as for that Q62 (whose span is broader than the Q61), IDK what's with this fixation with Utopia Pkwy up there, but a Crocheron - Utopia Pkwy route to Ft. Totten just screams fail to me....

Yeah, the demand is still there along S. Orange av..... I mean, I understood getting rid of those Maplewood trips, but I still think they should've kept some service to/from Livingston Mall (or even tried their hand sending buses to Short Hills Mall instead, after serving St. Barnabas Hosp.).... At this rate, if buses aren't going to pan past S. Orange Center, they may as well have all trips ending at Dover st.... Anyway, with that information you listed, was that of buses heading towards Dover st. or towards Newark-Penn?

I'm not certain on this, but IINM, the Q31 actually has better service during the rush (while the Q30 has better off peak service)....

Nah, not the new/shifted Utica stop..... I'm saying another stop on the B12 along the route still got an old Cypress Hills sign...

IDK about you, but whenever I'm around Jamaica, I notice more Q31's than I do Q30's rolling around.... Back when the Q30 used to run better than it does today, Q31's used to run few & far between.... You would have been hard pressed to have seen bunching on the Q31 (nevermind with the regularity that it does these days) back in the '90's & the 2000's.... The way I see it, they're slyly using both routes in a complementary fashion between Jamaica & HHE/Utopia, while having all Q31 trips running to Bayside, while severing Q30 service past HHE/Utopia.... In other words, they're prioritizing Bayside over Little Neck. ...and to think that once upon a time, the MTA had weekend service eliminated on the Q31.

Yes, because routes getting cut & riders being unaware of it is so comical.....