Trainmaster5

Quick question about LRT systems. How are they in coping with bad weather conditions ? I know that at certain times the trolley systems in NYC had to shut down because of snow and blizzard conditions and I wondered if that was a valid comparison . Now back to the RBB discussion . If a person purchases property abutting a rail line, whether active or not, said person has no say , morally or legally IMO . If the city, state, or whomever decided to build or not build, rail, LRT, or parkland those people should have no recourse or standing to block anything. Just my opinion. Carry on.

FWIW the ran at 10 minute headways on Saturdays and 12 minutes on Sundays from 1982 onward. Is the implication being made that insufficient service being provided? The line is mirrored by the and the for most of it's route. Is the train overcrowded from Utica to New Lots ? Just asking because if it's not then that argument is null and void. Looking at the line for a minute. The argument is that the trains run infrequently or aren't on schedule, especially CPW territory. I believe that that schedule is similar to the line headways. 6 trains per hour. I don't pretend to know what they do in the B2 but I'll ask my fellow posters. Are there G.O.s working on weekends where the or interact with the and lines ? If so that may be a reason for the CPW delays. I'm just speculating because if the overcrowding is that severe they would normally send an express down/up the local track. Same thing would apply in Brooklyn. Obviously management doesn't see a reason to do so. Just my opinion. Carry on.

Yep. ☺. Still waiting for a response from anyone though. There seems to be some anticipation about the five car units and I can't fathom why. Aren't they the same thing as the four cars when they're manufactured ? I haven't seen or ridden one R179 consist so I figured I'd ask the forum members and the RTO people. Carry on.

Simple question for anyone who cares to answer it. What's the difference between the eight and the ten car units besides the obvious? What I'm getting at is that I've ridden various consists of all new equipment since the debut of the R32s but whether the consists were 8, 9, 10 or 11 cars I never made a distinction between the train length. An R179 is just that, to me, no matter how long the train is. Different strokes for different folks I guess ?

Completely out of left field but I figured I’d leave this here. Having been a member here for a long time I notice that many posters will quote something they’ve read and accept it as fact. An employee or the newspaper or the stated such and such and entire threads become flame wars between opposing views. I’m coming from a generation where we question everything, no matter the source, because of past history. I’ve read articles and posts about various topics concerning the transit system in the metropolitan region and I can see the spin being perpetrated on the public. Just got off the phone with a buddy who worked with me on the many years ago. Specifically the Lenox shuttle between 148th and 135th St. He said his grandson was doing a report on trains for school and the young mans teacher said that he made a mistake about our shuttle job. Seems that the teacher was relying on something she read on another site that said the station at 135th and Lenox had two tracks. My buddy emailed the teacher and he pointed out to the teacher that while the article does mention the two tracks there are pictures of the station on the site that clearly show the three tracks. The funny thing is that many people use the site as a reference tool. I’ve actually used the same site because I like to read the old service guides. Just saying don’t believe everything you read because even reputable sources have been known to have errors. Carry on.

I'm aware of the limitations of the Central Branch but with so many cancellations, especially trains out of LIC or HPA there should have been some spare diesels floating around somewhere. Use the Greenport Scoot if need be. I know a few folks who suggested using SCT buses from Babylon to points north. IIRC the S27 runs from Babylon north to the Deer Park-Brentwood-Hauppauge area. It may not be the optimal solution but I'm an old Brooklynite who was taught that there's usually more than one way to get home..

Two quick points. As many have pointed out the SCT bus routes are nothing like NYCT bus routes. They don't serve the same purpose so most comparisons are a waste of time. Suffolk is car territory even compared to Nassau. I have relatives in Suffolk who have never stepped on a SCT bus and they've lived in the county since 1980. I'm the odd ball because I might drive over to Amityville, park the car, and ride the S1 from end to end just to see what's on the route. I've had relatives that have been confined to the VA Hospital in Northport or Stony Brook hospital and it amazes me that they or their visitors don't know that from the Brentwood LIRR station it's a one seat ride to either place. They're Brentwood residents mind you. Originally from Brooklyn and Queens. Bus riders from the boroughs that won't utilize SCT. The Nassau relatives are the same .Go figure. Point two is railroad related. I watched the Westbury PSEG fiasco unfold over time while monitoring the LIRR response. For a time it appeared that there were at least two Ronkonkoma bound trains stuck between Westbury/Mineola and Jamaica while this utility pole stopped movement east and west. I started wondering why the LIRR didn't run the westbound trains to Hicksville and reverse them down the Central Branch to Babylon. I'm not privy to how the folks behind the desks at Jamaica run their railroad, I'm just a subway guy, but it seemed like an option to me. Likewise the eastbound Ronkonkoma or Port Jeff trains that were not yet caught up in the mess could have run some type of limited service along the Babylon Branch from Penn, Atlantic terminal or Jamaica and up the Central Branch to Hicksville . Just my speculation. Hey, they critique the subways so I figure turnabout is fair play.BTW while all of this unfolded how did MNRR Hudson, Harlem and New Haven fare ? I was watching News12 LI most of the time. You know, "as local and as uninformative as it gets". That station, Lol. Station with a weatherman straight from the Cartoon Network, IMO. Then again mention a storm or even a potential storm to some of these weather people and they start foaming at the mouth. Carry on.

My beloved Dyre line is notorious for fallen trees across the tracks. This is especially true of the s/b stretch between the Baychester Avenue and Gun Hill Road stations. Over the years I've personally watched the constant erosion of the soil and surrounding area.. Where there used to be brush surrounding the trees on the embankment , especially s/b, by late 2010 all that was left was the bare soil. Having watched NatGeo and Discovery for years I always wondered why NYCT or the itself didn't try to re-seed the embankments to slow down or prevent the obvious effects of erosion over the years. I had a friend up at Dyre who was a car cleaner. There were at least 3 times since 2000 that he and I would remove or relocate fallen trees or large branches from the s/b track (Y1) in order to continue my trip. We used to joke that we would have to lie like hell if we suffered an injury because we were doing something out of title and therefore ineligible for Worker's Comp or Disability pay. We'd probably be written up instead. I remember one Saturday in the mid 80's where a tree came down and service was suspended for hours because the only on duty crew with a chainsaw had to be called in from Coney Island !!!. They finally assigned a crew at East 180th St Yard. The saying was " common sense ain't so common any more" and from what I'm reading nothing's changed. Just my observation though. Carry on.

That's why cut and cover won't be an option going forward, Massive utility relocation and shoring up the existing buildings would never be an option put forward by a reputable construction company or consortium. The relative depth of the newer stations has more to do with the existing surroundings than anything else IMO. The "ornateness " of them is something else entirely. Look no further than the Wall and Fulton Street stations on the Lexington line. Does anyone think that type of construction is possible today ? Even if you could do that type of construction in SE Brooklyn or parts of SE Queens for example the existing infrastructure might be problematic. The water tables would add to the cost and add another variable to the projects. As a former construction worker and as someone who has experienced the Lenox Invert project and the Vanderveer water work project on the Nostrand Avenue line cut and cover might be cheaper upfront but any repair or other unforeseen work down the line is not cheap or easy. Just my thoughts on the topic. Carry on.

Gotta agree with you on the generational differences. I base my thoughts on experience mixing those and what I was taught by people who had a different perspective. I had a conversation with a poster who is focused on the commuter/worker situation. I'm trying to make sense of the increased subway ridership yet the decrease in the surface use. In it's simplest form shouldn't they be interrelated? I don't know how the bus statistics were compiled, daily, hourly, combined, I have no idea. Are these stats or from somewhere else? I'm always distrustful of stats from personal experience. Everyone seems to be focused on the commuter thing obviously but a casual rider and observer like me wants to know more about the stats. I mentioned that some bus routes weren't created as feeders to the subway or Els. Look at the old el, subway or bus maps. Sure you had Park Row, City Hall, South Ferry, and the Financial District stops. You also had Fordham Road, the Hub, 34th Street Herald Square, and Union Square, and Downtown Brooklyn, places where bus ridership compared favorably with the rail ridership. Casual riders, shoppers. I'm trying to make sense of the loss of bus ridership to these places with the population increase in the area overall and the increased subway ridership. Did these people stop traveling and shopping? I've been with Amazon since the 90s but ain't that many young folks gonna give up hanging out in the shopping districts from what I've seen. The people I see on Jamaica Avenue or Downtown Brooklyn weren't teleported and doubt they all came by car. That crowd hanging out on Jamaica Avenue didn't walk from Laurelton either. Just wondering so I figured I'd ask for your perspective. You're observant and don't come across as someone who has an agenda. Unlike that Brooklyn person from the past😀

Your first sentence happens to be what I'm trying to say. In my post the shopping districts I mentioned still exist but they've been supplemented by the Gateway Mall, the Georgetown shopping district and the Kings Plaza mall among others. They all can be reached by bus and by auto. By my definition none of them, the old or the new, would be considered neighborhood shopping districts so I'm unsure of your point there. Your point about the jobs being outside of Manhattan rings a bell with me. Mom commuted by bus and train from Brownsville, and later Flatbush, to the DOD located in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. My father commuted from Flatbush to the Hub post office in the Bronx by subway. My uncles traveled from St. Albans and South Ozone Park, respectively, for years by bus and subway to the Brooklyn waterfront docks. This is not a new trend in my experience. Long distance commutes aren't new. My late father-in-law commuted from Bed-Stuy and later, South Ozone Park, to Jersey City 5 days a week by bus and the Hudson Tubes (PATH). I also concur that bus speed in NYC is abysmal which is why I emphasized the speed factor so many times in my original post. I've seen posts about speeding up bus travel that are all over the place. I happen to think the local bus network, especially in the outer boroughs, needs a complete overhaul. Maybe real BRT, a combo with the Tri-boro rail proposal(s), whatever. I don't pretend to know how this will all turn out but I think we can discuss it in a civil manner on this forum. As an aside to all my Brooklyn folks I didn't forget the shopping district at Broadway, Flushing, and Graham Avenues under the El. We all know why the B46SBS doesn't run past there to Bridge Plaza don't we ? I'm well aware of the long range game with SBS and articulated busing. Why run 5 or 6 regular buses when I can run 3 articulated ones under the SBS banner. Stops removed, buses sped up on the remaining runs, B/O personnel reduced by attrition, labor costs, medical costs, and pension costs reduced over the years. What's not to like ? The problem is that today's commuters and casual riders are suffering now. I look at NE and SE Queens and shake my head. Even if bus service is improved in some locations the rider is dumped at an equally poor subway line. What and where is the comprehensive plan is what I'm getting at. Right now it's like a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces IMO. Meanwhile the city, state, and the pray that the Jetsons become a reality soon rather than a cartoon. That way they don't have to take any action or responsibility. Just my opinion and thoughts. Carry on.

I have a few questions about bus service in the outer boroughs and I figured that you folks could help me understand things a little better. For those who don't know me I'm an old Brooklynite who grew up in Brownsville and Flatbush way back in the 50's and 60's. Mass transit has always been my mode of transport around NYC. Started out with a bus/train pass in the sixth grade and I've been an explorer since then. My questions to you posters is what is the primary function of local bus routes? I'm not trying to be funny or anything but perhaps BrooklynBus or Interested Rider would understand my question a little better. When I grew up I always thought bus service had two functions. It took you to a shopping district like Pitkin Avenue, the Church and Flatbush area, Broadway under the el, or the big one in Downtown Brooklyn. Function two involved commuting. I used to ride the B14 from Sutter Avenue to Utica-Eastern Parkway 5 days a week on my way to school. The bus intersected with the B60, B7, B12 and B10 traveling w/b. At Utica there were transfers to the B46 and the B17 as well as the IRT subway. I don't recall speed being a major function of that run. At Utica I'd transfer to a s/b B46 down to Clarkson or Winthrop St where my schools were located. Again speed wasn't an overriding concern. The n/b B46's served a different function as far as I could determine. Whether they originated at Avenue N, Avenue H, or Snyder Avenue those were rush hour runs to the subway. Heck, there was a bus dispatcher with a portable farebox located at Church Avenue who collected fares at the back door. Yeah, you SBS snobs are about sixty years too late with your offboard payment, lol. Met him one day when I tried my B35 to Utica experiment one morning. I recall B46's to Eastern Parkway, DeKalb, Bridge Plaza, and IIRC there was one or two to Fulton St. Again, speed did not appear to be a primary function. When I moved to Prospect-Lefferts and reversed my commute the only difference was I now took the B12 e/b from Parkside to Utica and East New York Avenue. Again speed did not appear to be a big factor. We picked up a few people at Nostrand heading for Kings County Hospital and then some commuters along Albany Avenue. Of course by that time my home was bracketed by the B41, B49, and B44 from west to east before Rogers and Nostrand became one-way. Here's where I begin to question the role of local bus service. The stops along Rogers and/or Nostrand were usually no more than three blocks apart. On adjacent bi-directional streets one would never have to travel too far in either direction to catch a bus. Obviously there weren't as many two car families back then so the bus stops were a convenience. From what some posters are complaining about it seems that they think the buses are making too many stops these days. Obviously there's been a sea change in what people think a bus is supposed to do. There's no one size fits all but , IMO, if you eliminate stops in an arbitrary manner ( every 5 blocks instead of 3 for example) bus ridership should automatically decline and it shouldn't be a surprise. As I pointed out earlier speed was never a major factor in bus usage back then. Convenience was. On the n/b B49 for example there might have been 5 stops between Winthrop St and Empire Blvd but normally a bus would stop twice. On a route with a local and a limited I could see the reasoning and both could coexist. On a street like Rogers with the B49 and the B44SBS if you stretch out the B49 stops the potential catchment area is decreased and the Camry or SUV gets cranked up because the convenience factor is eliminated. The city, the or the riders can't complain about congestion when it appears, at least to me, that the things you claim to want like decreased traffic and increased speed don't seem to have a middle ground. On one hand there's too much congestion and the buses creep along their routes meanwhile Joe and Jane Commuter are in a hurry and don't have the time to waste on slow buses or trains so they're gonna use their personal vehicle, a cab, or Uber/Lyft, to get around. Meanwhile bus ridership is tanking because it's slow ? Maybe it's a generational thing ? I really don't know. Those of us who grew up in Prospect-Lefferts in the 60's and 70's took the B41 bus to Downtown Brooklyn even though we had the Brighton Line and the Nostrand Avenue line within walking distance. It wasn't about speed. It's my personal opinion that it's the mismanagement of surface transportation, at least in Brooklyn, that's contributed to the reliability issues and the loss of potential ridership. Just my opinion though. Carry on.

Before I retired my C/R and I were sent s/b from Dyre on the"express" track a few times. One time I had a TSS in my cab and he waited to see what I would do at Pelham Parkway. Trains don't normally stop there because there was no indication board for the conductor.I made a station stop and enabled the doors for my partner. After we started moving again he asked me why I stopped and why my C/R opened the doors because there was no conductor indication board there. I told him that the General Supt. asked me the same thing weeks before and I told the superintendent to look at the station the next time he was in the area and he'd see what I had known for 25+ years. If you look across the platform at the normal local track and see the conductor indication board and point to it as per rules the express track is in the exact same spot. In other words you are properly aligned to open the doors. Since all the line TSS were afraid of the General Supt and my partner and I were not we were able to get away with bending the rules from time to time. I told that particular TSS that there was no reason to leave a platform full of people standing there and if we bypassed them they would have to take a train and travel three stops in the opposite direction to catch a train going in my direction. He agreed with me hesitantly because he, not I, was supposed to be in charge. It's always bothered me wherever I was employed that no matter how well I was trained some supervisory personnel were to afraid to do their jobs. My Rabbi in transit told me to stop, think, and take action because down in the subway hesitation and/or inaction can be very dangerous. As he put it a G2 (report) showing no action taken by the writer meant the writer wasn't necessary either. I remember being asked by another chicken hearted TSS if I would open the doors at Rockaway Avenue on the line if there was no conductor indication board present. The General Supt was standing next to him when I smiled at them and said yes. The TSS said that if I did that as a C/R I would fail the integrity test they give conductors. I told him, in front of the General Supt, that he would fail my test. Everyone in the room laughed when I pointed out that the indication board on the s/b platform was located equidistant between the two staircases and unless those staircases were removed the spot to be safely berthed in the station wouldn't change. Rules are rules but common sense should prevail IMO. Just my musings. Carry on.

A supplement is basically a deviation from the basic schedule. They are used when trains are running during scheduled General Orders. Maybe there's something like trackwork being done on a line and one track is out of service. The supplement may have half the number of regularly scheduled trains operating in a localized area. There are also emergency supplements that may be used for switch or broken rail situations and the like. Supplements are printed up when new picks go in effect. Depending on the line there might be twenty different supplements available for use depending on the situation at hand. Supplements were supposed to be used for a maximum of 30 days before being replaced by a new one or a reversion to the regular schedule and timetable. An emergency G.O. and supplement are just that and aren't subject to those limitations. Hope that helps. Carry on.

I have a question for the Lexington Avenue riders. Since the Second Avenue line started running has there been a noticeable difference in ridership on the Upper Lex corridor ? I believe I asked this before but I don't remember if it was answered. What I'm trying to find out is, with the advent of the up there, has the crowding on the from 96th St down to 59th St diminished any ? I direct the same question to the surface riders up there. The reason I'm asking this particular way is because supposedly the would siphon off some of the crowds from the and the buses up there. Is this in fact happening ? Knowing how the does things it would not surprise me if Operations and Planning instituted a new schedule (supplement) on the line in particular because theoretically there wouldn't be a need for as many trains on the line because the would siphon off some of the folks who'd normally ride the Lex. I've been following the posts of VG8 and some others and I don't ever recall the operating so poorly. The sure, but not the in my experience. I'd like to hear from our Surface contingent too. Something ain't right up there IMO. Carry on.

Gotta slip this in about the present day Dyre line. The line was a railroad line, basically a New Haven offshoot, that ran south from Westchester county to the South Bronx. It wasn't low density and it had a ridership base. The Depression and the New Haven bankruptcy is what made the line available for NYC to purchase. It was a cheaper alternative than extending the Concourse line eastward. Remember the line only ran between Dyre and EAST 180th Street after the line was purchased and before the connection was built. The RBB was a remnant of the bankrupt LIRR . While the southern end was connected to the subway system the present day RBB suffered from low ridership from Ozone Park station north to the mainline LIRR at Whitepot junction. Even the Woodhaven stations on the RBB and Atlantic branches weren't utilized enough to stay open. To compare Dyre and RBB is fallacy IMO. Completely different situations after the parent railroads bankruptcies. My opinion though. Yours may be different. Carry on.

In my experience ridership entering either station is heading toward Hoyt-Schermerhorn overwhelmingly. Downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan for the most part. After rush hour, especially on the , what major destination is there heading towards LIC ? As you pointed out the catchment area is the same so why not use the more frequent train. Actually the more populated side of the area is on the side of Fulton Street if my memory is correct. Carry on.

There were probably no trains behind you. In cases like that the train will be “ gapped “ to even out the spacing between trains. If your train went express to Burnside and dropped out think about the number of stations that wouldn’t have any service from 149th St to Woodlawn. Without knowing the specifics of the big picture the procedure was the correct one.

Over the years I've seen posters talking about tourists being confused about the various services serving Queens and the JFK airport. Obviously my experience with the Fulton Street line goes way back but the tourist argument seems overblown, at least in my opinion. I used to travel from the Nostrand Avenue or the Broadway Junction stop to Rockaway Playland back when the subway took over from the LIRR. Back when the Far Rock train terminal was at Wavecrest. Back when everything was a two fare zone below Broad Channel. I've seen residents, workers, amusement park daytrippers, and the fishermen use the Rockaway branches. I've seen people disembark at Howard Beach through the years but my guess is that those people were Idewild/JFK workers because they didn't have luggage that I can remember. Heck, the old JFK express service carried air which is why it bit the dust. Has ridership increased by that much since the Train to the Plane made it's last trip? There was a time when the passengers at Howard Beach were either airport workers or people going to Aqueduct. Even today it appears that most people use taxis or the LIRR -Airtrain combination over the subway trip. As far as tourist confusion goes from my personal experience they're smarter than some posters give them credit for. They can read, they're good listeners, they're polite, and whether they want to go to Van Cortlandt Park, the Bronx Zoo, Harlem, Citifield, or Coney Island, they seem to get around better than some residents of the city do. Isn't the confusion argument a straw man? Just asking. Carry on.

Well it looks like everyone has their own opinion on speeding up subway service with solutions that cover the gamut of ideas. New car acquisition, major construction projects that would redo junctions that create choke points and new routing for existing lines. I make no secret of my disdain for one Bronx IRT proposal which stems from my own work experience over a 30 year period. Bear with me please. I was a C/R and a M/M on what was called the Lenox division of the IRT for over 25 years. That's what the , and the were called. You could only pick jobs on those three lines. As a rookie you'd probably be stuck on the Beast, the , 241st to New Lots most of the time. Gaining seniority meant a chance to work the Lenox or the Dyre . Real seniority to me meant picking a steady 5 days a week job out of Brooklyn. I normally worked PM tour but back in the day the had overtime jobs in the AM. That experience with the AM is why I am so against the Lexington Avenue-Woodlawn combo proposal. Regular riders and Bronx railfans who know the 149th Street- Grand Concourse station can already see the picture. Under my understanding of the situation all s/b trains on the lower level would be 7th Avenue bound, correct? All Lexington trains would be two levels up. Transferring between levels is problematic as it is during rush hours with s/b riders and some n/b riders too trying to get to 7th Avenue service as well as the reverse commuter. If you focus on the existing plant (station) , it's means of accessing the platform levels and the lack of sufficient staircases IMO you're going to have people backed up trying to get to the Lexington and Woodlawn trains upstairs. It happens during midday G.O.s now.I've been rerouted down the 7th Avenue line and discharged most people enough times and worked jobs when the started on the upper level and saw the conditions first hand. I am doubtful that forcing most Dyre riders and almost all present Nereid ridership to change trains at the Concourse speeds up their commute time and it's probably gonna slow down the s/b 7th Avenue bound trains too. The Lexington line is the slowest and most congested line yet we're going to speed up 7th Avenue service and extend the SAS westward along 125th and ignoring the Bronx folks who want East Side service. Wow. BTW does anyone believe that phase 3 or 4 of the SAS will ever see the light of day? I thought about the transit system a while back and I I realized that in my lifetime we've lost more services while gaining some improvements. Manhattan and Bronx Third Avenue El , Polo Ground Shuttle to Jerome, Lexington, Myrtle, Fulton, and Culver El service, outer end of the Jamaica line and Brighton-Franklin. All gone. As a Brooklynite we got full time IND express service along Fulton Street and full time IRT express service in the borough. We got subway service to the Rockaways and parts of the Plan for Action. We got new rolling stock throughout the system and AC too. Somehow even though things have changed we argue about train throughput, that's O&P territory, but have things really improved ? I think we're at a crossroads where technology and finance will determine the best way forward. A system with no dedicated stream of finance stands on shakey ground. Carry on.

Suppose you resided in the Bronx east of Jerome Avenue and you wanted Lexington express service ? Suppose you wanted any Lexington service ? Either I have an additional transfer or I find another means of transport altogether ? Just asking.

After reading some of the proposals I have to question whether or not customer preference is even considered at all. The Bronx White Plains Road and Dyre service patterns exist because of customer preference. The and lines swapped terminals because the Dyre line ridership wanted Lexington service overwhelming and not 7th Avenue service. The upper WPR service was strictly East Side service via Lexington or Third Avenue originally. 7th Avenue service started at the old Bronx Park station and later ran out of the Dyre line after the connection was built at East 180th Street. On the Brooklyn end of the line Flatbush Ave and New Lots swapped late night primary terminals for flexibility and customer preference. I'm sure that there are posters out here who actually remember the uproar after the Chrystie connection when the Broadway service was removed from the Brighton line and 6th Avenue service replaced it. It just seems to me that in this quest to streamline service the customer isn't taken into consideration. Two Lexington services on the Woodlawn line and two 7th Avenue services out of Flatbush. That's really going to be in the rider's wish list? While the theory may make sense to some extent in some cases I'm betting that NO ONE from Operations and Planning would come out to the communities affected and propose this in a public forum. I recall a proposal where the would replace the as the Bronx express. Operationally it would speed trains through the East 180th Street area. The communities who would be most affected told the to stick the proposal where the sun don't shine.The theoretical may make sense but the customer must be satisfied first and foremost. Just my opinion. Your opinion is worth as much as mine. Carry on.

You seem to have missed my point completely. I don't drive to Manhattan for business or pleasure except in an emergency. I was pointing out the absurdity of trusting the " pie in the sky " numbers being thrown into the conversation by both sides . On one side of the argument you have residents of the outer boroughs worried about congestion on their side of the river. You have the people who are in the CBD now complaining about the congestion. Meanwhile, at least in my opinion, everyone overlooks the true cost of the proposals. That's my beef with both sides. If some people don't drive to Manhattan any more how will they be transported to the CBD? Most people who post already say the buses and subways are overcrowded and unreliable. How do you overcome this problem and at what cost? BTW delivery companies will pass along any increased costs. They already do. That's why I was asking about financials in the first place. It's always about the Benjamins yet people try to ignore it when you ask. Carry on.

City control, NYCT control back to New York City, congestion pricing. So many different ideas and remedies for traffic flow. I'm beginning to think that many city officials, local politicians, and posters are ,intentionally or not, overlooking the obvious. If we can get more people out of their personal vehicles and onto mass transit everything will be better, right ? I'm going to oversimplify this but take this into account. If I could get people out of their cars and reduce traffic what then ? Does the NYCT or Bus have enough vehicles to service these new riders ? Does the City of New York even have the funds to take back control of NYCT ? The quick answer is no and no. Can the City Council or any mayor say that they can do any better than what we have now ? Suppose we institute congestion pricing in Manhattan, LIC, and Downtown Brooklyn for starters. Will the money generated be enough to fund the vehicle purchases and maintenance to make this a viable solution ? Maybe I've missed it but the financials seem to have been intentionally vague or left out altogether. Some of us have been around the block a few times when it comes to NYC and it's finances. There's a reason the took over the NYCTA in the first place. My last question is for the supporters or detractors of the basic plans being floated around. Who controls the TBTA ? The city, the state, or the ? It seems to me that the motorists, the very people being scapegoated, probably influence the cash flow of the city's transport system right now. It's definitely not being supported by the fare box no matter who controls it. I don't know the covenants surrounding TBTA bonds but ,absent that financial backing, these proposals amount to wishful thinking so far. What is the financial picture and who controls the funds ? Feel free to chime in with your opinions. I'm just trying to point out some of the pieces to this puzzle that seem to have been overlooked. Carry on.

If the person is sick and on the platform the train will continue it’s trip normally. If the person was on the train and became ill it’s a completely different story. If the person is traveling with someone who can be responsible for the person that sick rider can be removed from the train to the platform. That train will be delayed until the removal is done. If the person is traveling alone and no responsible person or volunteer medical professionals will take over it’s a different story. Either the train is discharged and the C/R remains with the person or EMS arrives and they take over. That equates to a longer delay. What you are describing I’ve never personally encountered. What I have seen and heard about are lowlife passengers who don’t report an obviously sick person because they don’t want to be delayed. I remember when they started posting signs saying if a person felt ill to don’t board the train at all. That’s my experience though. Carry on.