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Maddog

DM/DE Idling/Shutdown

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Hey All-

 

I have passed by Morris Park several times on the way to Flatbush Ave. from Jamaica and have noticed several DM30's lit up and can sometimes hear the engines idling out there. I am curious how often the DM/DE30's are shut-down and started back up again. Or is it routine to keep them idling overnight? I would think this is not very economically efficient due to fuel costs & consumption. Also, I am wondering if anyone has seen any videos online of the DM/DE30 startup/shutdown process or perhaps a DM changeover from third rail to diesel power. I watched a few old-school loco startup videos on youtube and it is wicked cool :P

 

Maddog

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From what I've read up, it's actually cheaper and quicker to keep them idling versus shutting them down and starting them up again.

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The engines are not shutdown in normal revenue service. When we visited Morris Park, every DE/DM that was out in the open was running.

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The engines are not shutdown in normal revenue service. When we visited Morris Park, every DE/DM that was out in the open was running.

 

They weren't the only things blowing smoke that day. :eek:

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I think you're referring solely to the DMs. The DE don't "shutdown" because they are only diesel engines and don't venture into routes with long underground tunnels. The DMs on the other hand unlike the P32s, are powerful enough to run at higher speeds via the third rail. However on some occasions, the DMs do "shutdown" and switch to diesel mode when out of the tunnel.

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I think you're referring solely to the DMs. The DE don't "shutdown" because they are only diesel engines and don't venture into routes with long underground tunnels. The DMs on the other hand unlike the P32s, are powerful enough to run at higher speeds via the third rail. However on some occasions, the DMs do "shutdown" and switch to diesel mode when out of the tunnel.

 

LIRR has ended the practice of switching to E Mode before Jamaica on the westbound runs, because of issues with third rail gaps and the arcing that results (remember, a DM train only has 2 car's worth of shoes to draw 8 car's worth of power). The original practice allowed for mechanical help in Jamaica in case a train can't switch over.

 

Switching back us done once clear of the tunnels for the same reason. (and the speeds in PSNY's interlockings are slow, so power draw shouldn't be a problem.)

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:tdown:LIRR loves to piss away money. They leave the locomotives running for 8+ hours on end just idling away at the atlantic and 122 street yard. All that talk about it being cheaper to leave them running is BULLCRAP when they leave them running for over 8+ hours. I mean really what the hell is the point of polluting the air with that nasty sound and fumes when the locomotive is not even in service until the next day.

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:tdown:LIRR loves to piss away money. They leave the locomotives running for 8+ hours on end just idling away at the atlantic and 122 street yard. All that talk about it being cheaper to leave them running is BULLCRAP when they leave them running for over 8+ hours. I mean really what the hell is the point of polluting the air with that nasty sound and fumes when the locomotive is not even in service until the next day.

 

When a loco is cold, it uses TONS of energy to start up. In some yards in NJ, electric heater coils keep the engine hot overnight so that it can start easy the next day. We don't have that infrastructure in place, so idling is the next best thing.

 

Some engines have APU's like airplanes do. They are small engines that stay idling so that the big engine starts easier.

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Low idle is like 100 rpm and really uses a very low amount of fuel, even over a period of many hours. To not risk a unit taking a long time to start or not starting is worth the few gallons a day used for idling the locos overnight. Also, even though diesel locomotives do have large fuel tanks, they are actually many times more efficient than a typical automobile. I agree it's regrettable they have them running all night, but especially in winter it's a good idea too keep a temperature differential. Cold starts waste a lot of fuel, and cause high gaseous and particulate emissions. Tier 2 and 3 emissions standards (which are now the law on new units) work well with a warm block and a warm turbo/super.

 

- A

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LIRR has ended the practice of switching to E Mode before Jamaica on the westbound runs, because of issues with third rail gaps and the arcing that results (remember, a DM train only has 2 car's worth of shoes to draw 8 car's worth of power). The original practice allowed for mechanical help in Jamaica in case a train can't switch over.

 

Switching back us done once clear of the tunnels for the same reason. (and the speeds in PSNY's interlockings are slow, so power draw shouldn't be a problem.)

 

So why is it that before the DM enters Jamaica westbound the blowers shut off? I ride a DM westbound every day (sometimes eastbound too) and this happens about 90% of the time.

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Low idle is like 100 rpm and really uses a very low amount of fuel, even over a period of many hours. To not risk a unit taking a long time to start or not starting is worth the few gallons a day used for idling the locos overnight. Also, even though diesel locomotives do have large fuel tanks, they are actually many times more efficient than a typical automobile. I agree it's regrettable they have them running all night, but especially in winter it's a good idea too keep a temperature differential. Cold starts waste a lot of fuel, and cause high gaseous and particulate emissions. Tier 2 and 3 emissions standards (which are now the law on new units) work well with a warm block and a warm turbo/super.

 

- A

 

Dude this sound that resonates for almost a mile away drives people crazy! let alone the fuel it burns.

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Dude this sound that resonates for almost a mile away drives people crazy! let alone the fuel it burns.

 

It only uses a few gallons of fuel out of a 2300 gallon tank or whatever size tanks they are. As for noise, well, yes it can be heard quite a distance away, you can hear the cat engines at hoboken which are idling, all the way down near newport mall, which is about half a mile. Farther away to the south there are too many structures in the way to hear it, but even if i'm on the platform next to a loco revving up to pull out it really doesnt bother me. After 2 nights i fell asleep with industrial blowers all over the same floor i occupy in my house drying up an appliance caused flood we had.

 

I can hear freight trains on the trenton line from my house, and that's a good 7 miles away minimum. The really long ones you can hear wheel noise too with the rumble, it's a pretty flat grade & good tracks so they tend to be going at a fair clip, usually around 40 mph often with just 2 engines.

 

All that being said, (MTA) doesnt have the money to do what (NJT) and amtrak do. Cheaper to let it low idle. Diesel locos are not what people think, they are basically electric locomotives, that simply carry around their own power station, imagine trying to start up and shut down a power plant just cuz you don't use it 6 hours outa 24!

 

- A

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Dude this sound that resonates for almost a mile away drives people crazy! let alone the fuel it burns.

 

I live a block away from LGA. Do you want to trade?:)

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I live a block away from LGA. Do you want to trade?:)

 

No way dude! I used to live a few blocks away from JFK and the planes fly so low over the houses that everything rumbles and shakes!

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I would totally love to live near a very active rail yard. I like trains more than airplanes, so i'd take the terminal/yard over an airport but airport wouldnt be horrible. I guess my ears adjust to ambient sound. When they took those industrial blowers away, i couldnt sleep because it was so quiet, took me a day to adjust.

 

- A

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I would totally love to live near a very active rail yard. I like trains more than airplanes, so i'd take the terminal/yard over an airport but airport wouldnt be horrible. I guess my ears adjust to ambient sound. When they took those industrial blowers away, i couldnt sleep because it was so quiet, took me a day to adjust.

 

- A

How would you deal with diesel fumes?

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How would you deal with diesel fumes?

 

If there were fumes a mile away then something's wrong.

 

- A

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