Subway cars and rust

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Do they put anything on the subway cars to prevent them from becoming rusty so quickly? I could be wrong but the newer cars look like they're rusting very quickly and I wonder how well they will hold up. Can rust cause problems for the subway cars and if so is there anything that they do to fix the problem?

[CTK246]

R42s are a perfect example for rust affecting operation. I'm not saying rust impacts performance though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

R42s are a perfect example for rust affecting operation. I'm not saying rust impacts performance though.

 

Those cars looked so cheap and rusted so badly. POS... I was glad to see them go... Why can't they do something to make them more rust proof? This may sound crazy but there is nothing that annoys me more than seeing rusty subway cars. They just don't look as appealing as they do when they've got that shiny new look. :eek:

[CTK246]

Those cars looked so cheap and rusted so badly. POS... I was glad to see them go...

Past tense? They still run on the (J)/(Z). If you don't believe me, check out that ridonkulous thread in the photo section.

[R36 Preservation]

Each model of car seems of have a unique "soft spot" for rust. Post-R44 cars use less LAHT and suffering rust less. For the R42s, its the roofline (same for the R38 and R40). R44s along the center band (once painted) and undersills. R36s window areas and side rocker sills. R33 WFs seem to be most prone on the roof (look carefully at them from the promenade at Corona Yard).

 

Older pre-R33 SMEEs tend to rust at the windows and door sections. As for treating rust, NYCT has done some measures such as duct tape (seen on R38s, 40s and 42s), paint patching and repainting critical areas.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Past tense? They still run on the (J)/(Z). If you don't believe me, check out that ridonkulous thread in the photo section.

 

I like using the past tense when referring to them because I haven't seen any in years and I'd like to keep it that way. The R160s are much more pleasing to look at although it seems like the signage on the R160s are very crappy in that they don't appear to be lasting very long...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Each model of car seems of have a unique "soft spot" for rust. Post-R44 cars use less LAHT and suffering rust less. For the R42s, its the roofline (same for the R38 and R40). R44s along the center band (once painted) and undersills. R36s window areas and side rocker sills. R33 WFs seem to be most prone on the roof (look carefully at them from the promenade at Corona Yard).

 

Older pre-R33 SMEEs tend to rust at the windows and door sections. As for treating rust, NYCT has done some measures such as duct tape (seen on R38s, 40s and 42s), paint patching and repainting critical areas.

 

If that duct tape is anywhere near the duct tape patches they've used on some of the local buses (i.e. Orions), we're in big trouble? It's insane that they spend thousands of dollars per car and have to use duct tape on them.

[INDman]

Do they put anything on the subway cars to prevent them from becoming rusty so quickly? I could be wrong but the newer cars look like they're rusting very quickly and I wonder how well they will hold up. Can rust cause problems for the subway cars and if so is there anything that they do to fix the problem?

 

Your wrong, the new cars are not rusting and the sides of them will not rust because there made of stainless steal. The rust color that you and many other people see and wrongly thing to be rust is.... steal dust. It's the same dust that covers everything in the subway and is caused by the wheels running along the rails.

 

Now the rust you do see on some the remaining R42s is only on the roof which is not stainless steal like the rest of the car. The only way to prevent that is to paint that area. This has not been done to the R42s at ENY because it was thought that they would be gone soon which is why those cars look like shit even though they may stay around until 2014.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Your wrong, the new cars are not rusting and the sides of them will not rust because there made of stainless steal. The rust color that you and many other people see and wrongly thing to be rust is.... steal dust. It's the same dust that covers everything in the subway and is caused by the wheels running along the rails.

 

Now the rust you do see on some the remaining R42s is only on the roof which is not stainless steal like the rest of the car. The only way to prevent that is to paint that area. This has not been done to the R42s at ENY because it was thought that they would be gone soon which is why those cars look like shit even though they may stay around until 2014.

 

You're saying the R142s... They don't have any rust problems?? Maybe you're right, but from what I can see especially on the sides towards the end of each car some of them seem to have a great deal of rust. :eek:

 

I know this may sound stupid, but I was thinking they could buff out some areas that are in bad shape, i.e. areas w/grafitti? Is that possible?

[TheArr]

You're saying the R142s... They don't have any rust problems?? Maybe you're right, but from what I can see especially on the sides towards the end of each car some of them seem to have a great deal of rust. :eek:

 

I know this may sound stupid, but I was thinking they could buff out some areas that are in bad shape, i.e. areas w/grafitti? Is that possible?

 

I saw 2 R142s that looked like their sides had been buffed and it looked horrible.

[LRG]

Something else that has to be taken into account as to why some of the subway cars' exteriors look like trash while some don't is the type of finish on the steel. The R32s-R68As, and maybe even the R110s, have a finish that makes it easier to remove graffiti off the cars unlike the NTTs R142-present. Some of the R160s on the and have graffiti tags that have been cleaned off but it leaves traces that makes it noticeable to the eye that they did a shoddy job trying to take it off.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I saw 2 R142s that looked like their sides had been buffed and it looked horrible.

 

 

If someone can get a shot, I'd be curious to see what it looks like. :mad:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Something else that has to be taken into account as to why some of the subway cars' exteriors look like trash while some don't is the type of finish on the steel. The R32s-R68As, and maybe even the R110s, have a finish that makes it easier to remove graffiti off the cars unlike the NTTs R142-present. Some of the R160s on the and have graffiti tags that have been cleaned off but it leaves traces that makes it noticeable to the eye that they did a shoddy job trying to take it off.

 

 

I could be wrong, but as much as I like the newer cars, I question how long they will hold up. Some of them look in terrible shape and have only been out for a few years.

:eek:

[LRG]

I could be wrong, but as much as I like the newer cars, I question how long they will hold up. Some of them look in terrible shape and have only been out for a few years.

:eek:

 

That's where the problem lies with the new trains. They're ridden with computer hardware and the steel dust gets underneath the train where the computer hardware is. The steel dust gets into the hardware and it can make the hardware go haywire. I'm not 100% sure if that can be taken into account as to if that would cut the trains' life short or not.

[R32 3348]

I like using the past tense when referring to them because I haven't seen any in years and I'd like to keep it that way. The R160s are much more pleasing to look at although it seems like the signage on the R160s are very crappy. in that they don't appear to be lasting very long...

What's wrong about the signage on the R160s? Are you referring to the FINDs? Those are much, much less glitchy than they used to be a couple of years ago...

You're saying the R142s... They don't have any rust problems?? Maybe you're right, but from what I can see especially on the sides towards the end of each car some of them seem to have a great deal of rust. :eek:

Again, that's not rust, that's steel dust. Rub your finger on the side of the train and you will see brown stuff rub off, no matter how clean the train looks.

I could be wrong, but as much as I like the newer cars, I question how long they will hold up. Some of them look in terrible shape and have only been out for a few years.

:eek:

How they look =/= how they perform.

[SmallParkShuttle]

Something else that has to be taken into account as to why some of the subway cars' exteriors look like trash while some don't is the type of finish on the steel. The R32s-R68As, and maybe even the R110s, have a finish that makes it easier to remove graffiti off the cars unlike the NTTs R142-present. Some of the R160s on the and have graffiti tags that have been cleaned off but it leaves traces that makes it noticeable to the eye that they did a shoddy job trying to take it off.

 

That's right. The NTT cars have more of a rough finish to them (which is why they don't "luster" as much as the other stainless steel cars). That rough finish also provides a lot of nooks and crannies for the steel dust to settle in, which makes it easier for it to build up. Since the steel dust is also exposed to the other dirty elements of the subway/world, it is brown in color, which gives the appearance of rust.

 

Actually, a technique most railroad modelers use to mimic the effect of rust is to "paint" on chalk dust, which is essentially what is happening to the NTTs.

 

@INDMan: with as much constructive criticism as possible (maybe you were just joking, but for everybody), it's steel (material), not "steal" (verb).

[LRG]

That's right. The NTT cars have more of a rough finish to them (which is why they don't "luster" as much as the other stainless steel cars). That rough finish also provides a lot of nooks and crannies for the steel dust to settle in, which makes it easier for it to build up. Since the steel dust is also exposed to the other dirty elements of the subway/world, it is brown in color, which gives the appearance of rust.

 

Yup, and when the cars aren't cleaned, the steel dust accumulates and it makes the cars get real dirty. And it's not common on new trains either:

 

 

This was in the last 60's/early 70's. Look how dirty the train is!

 

But a little (or in the next case, a LOT) of paint comes a long way:

 

 

:cool:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What's wrong about the signage on the R160s? Are you referring to the FINDs? Those are much, much less glitchy than they used to be a couple of years ago...

 

Again, that's not rust, that's steel dust. Rub your finger on the side of the train and you will see brown stuff rub off, no matter how clean the train looks.

 

How they look =/= how they perform.

 

I was referring to the signage that you see in the front of the trains on the first and last car. Seems like they go out easily or are partially not working on a lot of the new trains, which is insane considering how much these cars cost.

 

Interesting what folks have been saying about this "steel dust"... So I guess this doesn't affect the actual structure of the trains then?

[SubwayGuy]

I was referring to the signage that you see in the front of the trains on the first and last car. Seems like they go out easily or are partially not working on a lot of the new trains, which is insane considering how much these cars cost.

 

If you are referring to photographs of the LEDs on the first and last car, that's not going to photograph well. Those LEDs emit light in such a way that it is very difficult for cameras to capture them. However they are working fine.

[LRG]

If you are referring to photographs of the LEDs on the first and last car, that's not going to photograph well. Those LEDs emit light in such a way that it is very difficult for cameras to capture them. However they are working fine.

 

That mainly happens when the camera is capturing a shot with high shutter speeds...my camera can take a shot underground with 1/30ths or 1/45ths of a second and the LED will come out fine. But it varies camera to camera, both the make and the model.

[SubwayGuy]

That mainly happens when the camera is capturing a shot with high shutter speeds...my camera can take a shot underground with 1/30ths or 1/45ths of a second and the LED will come out fine. But it varies camera to camera, both the make and the model.

 

Yeah, I'm not really a camera person so I don't know what the technical reason is, but I've never seen the LED's at the front or rear being defective in real life, so I am assuming the person is just talking about photographs. But power to you if you know the technical reason why those things photograph so poorly.

[SubwayGuy]

Do they put anything on the subway cars to prevent them from becoming rusty so quickly? I could be wrong but the newer cars look like they're rusting very quickly and I wonder how well they will hold up. Can rust cause problems for the subway cars and if so is there anything that they do to fix the problem?

 

Its steel dust and dirt only. This has been discussed on here before.

 

With older (non stainless) cars, rust only causes a problem if the steel deteriorates to the point that it becomes very thin, or develops holes. That's why all the older cars were painted - paint serves as a barrier to rust and prevents the oxidation process. But all paint fails sooner or later so that means older cars frequently need to be repainted to avoid the onset of rust.

[SmallParkShuttle]

If you are referring to photographs of the LEDs on the first and last car, that's not going to photograph well. Those LEDs emit light in such a way that it is very difficult for cameras to capture them. However they are working fine.

 

That mainly happens when the camera is capturing a shot with high shutter speeds...my camera can take a shot underground with 1/30ths or 1/45ths of a second and the LED will come out fine. But it varies camera to camera, both the make and the model.

 

Basically, it's like taking a picture of somebody when they blink. Honestly I believe that's the only digital part of the NTTs display system that I've RARELY seen with problems

[SoSpectacular]

The front signs are very much like the LCD screens of your computer (if you're not stuck in the past with the old school monitors), they have a refresh rate, it's fast enough to make the shape appear circular to the human eye when it's just a quarter circle rapidly illuminating

[R36 Preservation]

 

With older (non stainless) cars, rust only causes a problem if the steel deteriorates to the point that it becomes very thin, or develops holes. That's why all the older cars were painted - paint serves as a barrier to rust and prevents the oxidation process. But all paint fails sooner or later so that means older cars frequently need to be repainted to avoid the onset of rust.

Another factor for the older cars, including the SMEEs was the use of acid baths in the early 1980s to wash off graffiti. The IRT LAHT SMEEs were treated with heavy acid and this often accelerated corrosion in the later 1990s.