Bus Guy Posted March 3, 2011 Share #1 Posted March 3, 2011 Still needs labels stations etc, but for now im still working routes and if to add a few things here or there but when its finished it will be a full 26(and franklin shuttle) route Div B system with 5 lines each on: 8th, 6th, broadway, and 2nd av and 2 lines on: nassau, crosstown and 14th st as well as peak hour only services to use double letters like nassau loop service. As for the IRT not much added besides a few extensions here and there for a 12 line system and 42st shuttle. Any thoughts or views on what I have so far? Extensions and new routes are as follows: Bronx 3rd Ave/webster to 241st concourse to co-op city and thongs neck/randal av via gunhill rd pelham line to co-op city boston rd line off 3rd ave then onto dyre av line using unused row( 2 Div a tracks and 2 Div b tracks) brunker expy line off 3rd av via 163rd st to thongs neck Queens hillside and jamaica av lines to springfield blvd also a union turnpike line to springfield av belmont park spur off jamaica av van wyck/college point blvd line off queens blvd to 5th av 2 flushing line extensions one up 154th to 10th and one via northern blvd to springfield blvd astoria el made into 4 tracks and 2 used for a Div a line crosstown to jfk from queens blvd via lirr row van wyck expy line to conduit av off queens blvd liberty av el to stuphin blvd and 4 tracked as well as the L line connection for a different way into the city Brooklyn mostly the ind second system (buswick, myrtle, lirr row to rockaways, utica) fort hamilton parkway line torn down culver el makes a comeback and the rest turned into 4 tracks canarsie line extended underground down nostrand av via flatlands av 2 IRT extensions 1 via nostrand and one via flatbush Manhatten not much besides 2nd av, nassau loop makes comeback and 7 line (now a 4 track trunk line) extended north and south to south ferry and 145th If theres anything else you want explained just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 3, 2011 Share #2 Posted March 3, 2011 Hey you are using Calcagno's free map. That is the same map I am using to make mines. Though my progress sucks, and it is coming out very slowly. Nice to see how yours turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 3, 2011 Share #3 Posted March 3, 2011 Just a reminder the Second Avenue Subway might only be two tracked through it's entire length. So branching the Second Avenue Subway that many times won't work. Also you split the (J)/(Z) which makes the Skip-Stop service inefficient, and that won't work, and you can't have the , and share the Montague Street Tunnel I am a bit afraid that it would get kind of overcrowded by trains. Maybe an extended or a <R> like service would do a better job here. Also the Broadway Line is kind of overcrowded with 5 services, and so is the Fourth Avenue Line which has a total of 6. You best bet is to create a Fifth Avenue Subway in Brooklyn, and connect your 5th Broadway service to the Eighth Avenue Line instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Posted March 3, 2011 Share #4 Posted March 3, 2011 A Division (IRT) and B Division (BMT & IND) CANNOT share the same trackage. You have IND and BMT mixed as well, those stations and signals cannot handle 600ft length trains, unless you plan to make all trains 480ft long. You have 4 or 5 trains running on 2nd Av, thats a bit to much. Coney Island is a bit crowded with trains. Brighton is also overcrowded, don't think it needs 3-4 lines. Queens Blvd is crowded as of now, don't think you should overcrowd an already overcrowded line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus Guy Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted March 3, 2011 Just a reminder the Second Avenue Subway might only be two tracked through it's entire length. So branching the Second Avenue Subway that many times won't work. Also you split the (J)/(Z) which makes the Skip-Stop service inefficient, and that won't work, and you can't have the , and share the Montague Street Tunnel I am a bit afraid that it would get kind of overcrowded by trains. Maybe an extended or a <R> like service would do a better job here. Also the Broadway Line is kind of overcrowded with 5 services, and so is the Fourth Avenue Line which has a total of 6. You best bet is to create a Fifth Avenue Subway in Brooklyn, and connect your 5th Broadway service to the Eighth Avenue Line instead. Actually all i has is 4 broadway lines(same with 8th av) so far with part time Q nassau loop trains QB in then QT out and most tunnels would be replaced with 3 or 4 track tunnels. J/z skip stop would still be on the broadway el part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 3, 2011 Share #6 Posted March 3, 2011 For Queens he could dig a 4 tracked line underneath the Long Island Expressway which runs by Calvary Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus Guy Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted March 3, 2011 A Division (IRT) and B Division (BMT & IND) CANNOT share the same trackage. You have IND and BMT mixed as well, those stations and signals cannot handle 600ft length trains, unless you plan to make all trains 480ft long. You have 4 or 5 trains running on 2nd Av, thats a bit to much. Coney Island is a bit crowded with trains. Brighton is also overcrowded, don't think it needs 3-4 lines. Queens Blvd is crowded as of now, don't think you should overcrowd an already overcrowded line. I am aware of the things you mentioned: Dyre ave row is wide enough for 4 tracks and platforms so 2 Div A tracks and 3 Div B tracks simple Yes I know anything going onto the BMT Eastern has to be a 60ft 8 car train Brighton is for the most part 4 tracks that can easily take 3 routes As for Queens blvd it would have to be doubled for what I have planned but it could be done same with coney...just add another level Oh as for 2nd av...who said my version was 2 tracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Line1291 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #8 Posted March 4, 2011 It's like every neighborhood and street has subway access except for the borough of Staten Island.... just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #9 Posted March 4, 2011 Staten Island doesn't meet the demands for subway service, and some people don't want subway service there. In my fantasy map which is under construction light rail crosses the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and runs between Bay Ridge-95th Street , and the Staten Island Mall using the Staten Island Expressway, and a second service serves Hylan Boulevard, and also crosses the Bridge. The Staten Island Mall line also has a transfer to the West Shore Light Rail which is the Hudson Bergen Light Rail extension. Thus it would meet all of Staten Island's transportation needs. It also includes the reactivation of the North Shore Line as an SIR Line, and is extended across a new Geothals Bridge to serve Newark Liberty International Airport giving Staten Islanders access to an airport, and also I included high speed ferries on the Staten Island Ferry, and extended service to Coney Island, Brooklyn, and Hoboken Terminal, New Jersey, and is also free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Line1291 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #10 Posted March 4, 2011 But Fort Hamilton Pkwy meets demands for it???? Long term wise, light rail isn't gonna be a solution for the whole entire borough. Populated areas close to St. George and the North Shore could use a subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #11 Posted March 4, 2011 You are correct about that however NIMBY's on Staten Island oppose the NYC Subway on their island. Some of them do though, but you can't defeat those NIMBY's therefore light rail is the last option. Sorry to steal your thread a bit Bus Guy, but I have to prove a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #12 Posted March 4, 2011 @RC1: Stop pitching that map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted March 4, 2011 Share #13 Posted March 4, 2011 Would you STOP with the stupid Light Rail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #14 Posted March 4, 2011 I only pitched the map to prove that Staten Island could be well served by light rail, and SIR North Shore reactivation, and that they won't need a subway for a while anyway. Anyways it's time to go back onto his fantasy map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted March 4, 2011 Share #15 Posted March 4, 2011 You are correct about that however NIMBY's on Staten Island oppose the NYC Subway on their island. Some of them do though, but you can't defeat those NIMBY's therefore light rail is the last option. Funny thing about NIMBYs. Many times they are against a new rail or bus service being built or implemented until it's finally up and running. Then they actually use it. Eventually, they start complaining that it doesn't run far or frequent enough. Just like everyone else. Personally, I don't think Staten Island should be excluded from any city-wide maps or plans - real or fantasy - because a few stubborn loudmouths want it that way. I would certainly include SI on any fantasy city-wide subway map I make. It is part of NYC and New York is a subway city. NIMBYs who are opposed to the subway have to understand that it's not 1981 anymore, and that NYC and its subway system are not the same crime- and drug- and violence-ridden cesspools that they were 30 years ago. If there are people who want to go on thinking that way, then perhaps they should leave NYC altogether and look for a nice suburban town to live in and not deny their neighbors the opportunity to get around the city faster and more efficiently. @Bus Guy, I think you've made a very good map here, but I wonder if there is really a need for SAS line to go to Sheepshead Bay go via the Williamsburg Bridge, Bushwick, East NY, Canarsie and the Flatlands. That's a very circuitous route. Same goes for the SAS line that goes via Bushwick, Ridgewood and Middle Village. It goes north, almost to Forest Hills, only to turn south to go to the Rockaways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus Guy Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted March 4, 2011 @Bus Guy, I think you've made a very good map here, but I wonder if there is really a need for SAS line to go to Sheepshead Bay go via the Williamsburg Bridge, Bushwick, East NY, Canarsie and the Flatlands. That's a very circuitous route. Same goes for the SAS line that goes via Bushwick, Ridgewood and Middle Village. It goes north, almost to Forest Hills, only to turn south to go to the Rockaways. For the first it was supose to be a modern (KK) but my 6th av was full so I moved it to 2nd av. Now about the rockaway line that goes back to the IND Second System but I wasnt sure on the routing so it's all hypothetical but based off the original plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1103 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #17 Posted March 4, 2011 There will NEVER be light rail in NYC. Never. Just look at the subway stations and how packed they can get, then you'd get an idea of what could happen if we stuffed the SI'ers on light rail cars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #18 Posted March 4, 2011 I think Staten Island is the least dense borough in all of NYC, and that it would best be light rail. It would work on the island for the next 100 years or so after the light rail is built, but then the density after 100 years with light rail would make Staten Island a place that would require a subway if the light rail was built today. Light rail would be a good temporarily solution for a century on the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSm Posted March 4, 2011 Share #19 Posted March 4, 2011 If you want to foam about light rail, do it in your own thread. Anyway, I like some of the map. As others have pointed out, you seem to run A Division and B Division trains together, however, which is not possible. Also, there are a few places where your map just looks odd... Why the to Sheepshead Bay? Why not split the Jamaica Av Line to get service to places like Laurelton or Springfield Gardens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted March 4, 2011 Share #20 Posted March 4, 2011 I think Staten Island is the least dense borough in all of NYC, and that it would best be light rail. It would work on the island for the next 100 years or so after the light rail is built, but then the density after 100 years with light rail would make Staten Island a place that would require a subway if the light rail was built today. Light rail would be a good temporarily solution for a century on the island. Staten Island may be least dense of the five boroughs, but there are cities (whole cities) with smaller, less dense, populations that have heavy rail subways. Cleveland has the Red Line rapid service. That's a heavy rail service. Yet they have a population of about 431,000 over an area of roughly 82 square miles. They also have the Blue and Green light rail lines (which share tracks with the Red in a most unique arrangement). Meanwhile, SI is larger at about 491,000 on an island of about 60 square miles. Yet all it's got is the one glorified shuttle train from St. George to Tottenville. If Cleveland can have the Rapid, then Staten Island with some 60,000 more people can surely have at least one subway link to the rest of the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus Guy Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share #21 Posted March 4, 2011 Anyway, I like some of the map. As others have pointed out, you seem to run A Division and B Division trains together, however, which is not possible. Also, there are a few places where your map just looks odd... Why the to Sheepshead Bay? Why not split the Jamaica Av Line to get service to places like Laurelton or Springfield Gardens? Well the way I have it set up on Dyre av and Astoria el is 2 Div A tracks and 2 Div B track since the Dyre ave row is VERY wide and and the Astoria el can be re configured into a 4 track line with island platforms. Now in Manhatten where the and (11) are shown together, as well as the few locations in Brooklyn, their actually on different levels. Now as for the to Sheepshead Bay its kind of a given what else can you easily send down there with out doing something epicly confusing? Lol. As for the Jamaica line I did make a typo by saying that it and the Hillside/Union turnpike lines go to Springfield blvd when it goes to Little Neck parkway. For southeast Queens am still tweaking a few things here and there but as you can tell theres not much of that area on the map lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgman04 Posted March 10, 2011 Share #22 Posted March 10, 2011 Pelham line to Co-op City? Sir, you have read my mind like a tacky MTA Improvement Poster. Co-op City desperately needs a line. It takes 20 minutes to walk to the closest one (Baychester Ave on the ), and 25 minutes to take the bus to the and on Allerton Ave. Sure, there's the BxM7, but it's a pretty long ride. A Co-Op City line would be pretty awesome. Like mentioned above, Brighton Beach does seem a bit overcrowded with those lines. I really liked that extension of the down into southeast Brooklyn, not as big of a fan with the getting stretched out eastward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus Guy Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share #23 Posted March 10, 2011 Pelham line to Co-op City? Sir, you have read my mind like a tacky MTA Improvement Poster. Co-op City desperately needs a line. It takes 20 minutes to walk to the closest one (Baychester Ave on the ), and 25 minutes to take the bus to the and on Allerton Ave. Sure, there's the BxM7, but it's a pretty long ride. A Co-Op City line would be pretty awesome. Like mentioned above, Brighton Beach does seem a bit overcrowded with those lines. I really liked that extension of the down into southeast Brooklyn, not as big of a fan with the getting stretched out eastward. The extension isnt that long and this map this map isnt geographically correct by a good bit, it really is just from the current terminal to kings plaza. Now for the Brighton line it can handle all three routes but the choke point is Dekalb which would have to be reconfigured. As for map progress ive been working on and off (yes i have a life and school) so i only have Manhatten and Bronx labeled, ill put that up by the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus Guy Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share #24 Posted March 28, 2011 Tad of a bump ive been busy with other things (yes i have a life) so heres what i have so far...any questions ask away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 28, 2011 Share #25 Posted March 28, 2011 Whoa, the font it's WAYYY too small, I can't read anything. Can you upload a full size image? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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