official Subway - What If?

[cl94]

Next:

 

Due to construction, no trains between Queensboro Plaza and Times Square, and s/b trains run express from 74th St to Queensboro Plaza.

 

Due to stalled train in 60th St tunnel and workers crowding area, via , to Times Square, no service between Lex-Queensboro Plaza.

 

Water leakage forced the connection between Times Square and PABT closed.

 

Due to construction, s/b terminate at Kings Highway, s/b terminate at Brighton Beach, and n/b express to Prospect Park.

 

You are a tourist going from Parkside Av to 69th St. How would you do that, my little unlucky tourist?

 

P.S. IT'S THE WEEKEND!

 

Bonus: NYPD activity at 74th St-Broadway caused to bypass the station. +1 if completed successfully. 

 

Okay...

 

SB to Church, get on a NB

Transfer to at DeKalb or any stop between 14th Street and 57th/7th, inclusive

 

If stops at 74th, transfer to at Roosevelt and take WB to 69th.

 

If skips 74th, walk outside at Roosevelt and either hop on the WB Q32 or Q47 or walk 5 blocks.

[Javier]

Next:

A Blizzard has shut down most of Bronx's elevated subway lines, the between East 105 Street and Canarsie, the entire Brighton Line in Brooklyn, and the Marcy Ave Station. Reroute. Affected:

[CenSin]

I'm trying to restore the system to a less chatoic level, and what my ideas I put in are to help restore the subway to a less chatoic level without backing up trains. Installing flyovers do not cost that much money, and it's better to run full lines then split lines. Unless you want to reroute everything over the WillyB or the Brooklyn Bridge.

With a keyboard and mouse (or pen and paper), it's easy to suggest things without thinking about the consequences. I'm not saying my suggestions don't have any cost issues or technical roadblocks, but I do my best to look into its feasibility.

 

You might want to draw some diagrams. Some lines (especially those built by the BMT of the pre-unification era) are quite close to the surface of the street and are also be under very expensive property. We're talking about billions to do some of your suggestions. The area around 34 Street basically can't be touched, and I don't know about building a flyover from the highest station in the system to some line undergorund. You're going to run into a lot of issues—much more than just rebuilding the Manhattan Bridge.

 

 

I'm trying to restore the system to a less chatoic level, and what my ideas I put in are to help restore the subway to a less chatoic level without backing up trains.

So what did you do better than any of the other 3 solutions here? Edited January 26, 2015 by CenSin

[Javier]

What I did is use every single point in the system to reroute trains to other lines, you on the other hand chose to abandon Grand Street all together which will cost the MTA money and also cause protests. I used less expensive plans for the routes I couldn't reroute over other lines.

[MTA Dude]

What I did is use every single point in the system to reroute trains to other lines, you on the other hand chose to abandon Grand Street all together which will cost the MTA money and also cause protests. I used less expensive plans for the routes I couldn't reroute over other lines.

 

Advise people to use Bowery , East Broadway/2nd Av , Canal St. Boom, done. Plus, you got M15 SBS which will help a lot.

[Sparen of Iria]

Next:

A Blizzard has shut down most of Bronx's elevated subway lines, the between East 105 Street and Canarsie, the entire Brighton Line in Brooklyn, and the Marcy Ave Station. Reroute. Affected:

 

WTF.

 

EDIT: How does the blizzard manage to hit Marcy Avenue and the far reaches of the Canarsie Line, yet not impact the WillyB.

 

EDIT 2: Fine, fine.

from SF to 215 St (assuming that the blizzard did not affect anything below Marble Hill)

from 3rd Av 149th to FABC

from 149th to Utica

from 3rd Av 149th to FABC

from 125 to BB

from 8 Av to Livonia

via West End to Bay Pkwy

via Sea Beach

and from Myrtle to Jamaica Center and from Broad to Essex

as Myrtle Av Shuttle

Edited January 26, 2015 by Sparen of Iria

[Javier]

And what was the reason for that comment?

[MTA Dude]

Next:

A Blizzard has shut down most of Bronx's elevated subway lines, the between East 105 Street and Canarsie, the entire Brighton Line in Brooklyn, and the Marcy Ave Station. Reroute. Affected:

 

s/b terminate at B'way Junction.

 

n/b terminate at Dyckman St.

n/b terminate at 3rd Av.

n/b terminate at 149th St.

suspended.

terminate at Hunts Point.

suspended.

terminate at Prospect Park.

 

How would the snow affect a small portion of the Jamaica line?

no service between Hewes St and Essex St.

shuttle

suspended.

[Javier]

Gah, this stupid autocorrect keeps changing what I am saying and it seems as a portion of my post did not go thru.

 

(The Jamica Line is also impacted from Marcy Ave to The WillyB bridge).

 

That was missing from the original post.

[Priincenene]

WTF.

 

EDIT: How does the blizzard manage to hit Marcy Avenue and the far reaches of the Canarsie Line, yet not impact the WillyB.

 

EDIT 2: Fine, fine

^^^^

Edited January 26, 2015 by Priincenene

[Javier]

What the heck are you saying?

[Priincenene]

Gah, this stupid autocorrect keeps changing what I am saying and it seems as a portion of my post did not go thru.

(The Jamica Line is also impacted from Marcy Ave to The WillyB bridge).

That was missing from the original post.

What the hell do you mean by Jamaica Line?! The NASSAU ST ?!

[Javier]

*Nassu Street Line*. Even though the IS part of the Jamica Line.

[CenSin]

What I did is use every single point in the system to reroute trains to other lines, you on the other hand chose to abandon Grand Street all together which will cost the MTA money and also cause protests.

Closing a station is acceptable if: there are nearby stations such as Canal Street and Bowery; it would not be heavily trafficked anyway; and it would be part of an overall improvement to the system if it were closed. Closing a station also saves money. And I'm sure not rebuilding the Manhattan Bridge would draw much more protest than the closure of a station. That bridge is practically the reason why the station exists!

 

 

I used less expensive plans for the routes I couldn't reroute over other lines.

As for your opinion on this matter… what is it less expensive than? What are you comparing your plans to?

 

 

Let's start with a step-by-step breakdown of what's wrong since you insist that you've done your best work.

 

Flyovers are installed at 34 Street connecting the to the

Runs via the from 34 Street to Atlantic Avenue - Barclays then via the from Atlantic to Brighton Beach, operating time remains unchanged.

These fly-overs will require at least 2 street blocks in the north-south direction. They can only be installed north of 34 Street–Herald Square since PATH is in the way from 32 Street and below. The lines are also not overlapping by 32 Street (which is where the southern ends of the platforms stop), so you'd be running a very long tunnel underneath the Broadway or 6 Avenue tracks and PATH. It's likely that this tunnel will stretch all the way to 28 Street, which means you'll have to close that station. You would have the same problem at the other end of the station, but without the PATH. 42 Street and 34 Street are uncomfortably close for a connecting fly-over between 6 Avenue and Broadway.

 

One other option you could exercise is a tunnel from 6 Avenue that goes underneath the existing 34 Street–Herald Square complex, curving at 34 Street to follow the Broadway line to 32 Street before joining the Broadway tracks. This solution, while more feasible than the other two is massively expensive. You will have to consider the cost of digging underneath existing lines and stations as well as the cost of acquiring property. Those buildings along the narrow Broadway will be demolished while building the connecting ramps. Once the costs are summed, the begin to look a lot like the price tag of the Flushing extension to the west.

 

Bonus: Both 6 Avenue and Broadway will be taken out of service for a long time to install this connection.

 

 

A flyover junction is placed at 4 Av-9 St connecting the to the and Line

 

runs via the from B'way to 4 Ave then switches to flyover and runs regular route to Coney Island.

I deem this project infeasible. I'll leave it to you to explain in any level of detail how this can be done.

 

 

run via the from Canal Street to Fulton Street then via their orignal routes.

There is no Fulton Street stop on the .

 

 

Orange S runs from 34 Street to Grand Street via Local.

And how would this turn around at Grand Street? Or does it just single-track?

 

 

Becomes 24/7 Local Line

Runs to 71 Av from 5 am to 5 PM.

Other times runs to 145 Street and in case that the gets backed up becuase the M is running, the M is extened to Bedford Pk Blvd.

Is Extended back to 71 Street when is running to 145 Street.

See:

• Post 795242 by RollOver
• Post 771996 by realizm
• Post 772002 by Lance

Some D trains run via the F in case there are back-ups at 4 Av.

If this is a regular scheduled occurrence, then basically you want to make a train's destination less predictable and more chaotic. If not, you really didn't have to mention this. Delays will cause trains to be rerouted, suspended, or taken out of service anywhere in the system, not just here.

 

 

You have my most detail opinion. It's up to you if you want to learn anything from it.

[Javier]

Thank you for that (longly) detailed explanation. I forgot that the path station was there. Is there any other connection between the Broadway Line and the 6th Ave Line?

[Priincenene]

*Nassu Street Line*. Even though the IS part of the Jamica Line.

I'll go

 

Runs Between 168th & Chambers St

Runs Between 149th St-Concourse and New Lots

Suspended

Runs Between E. 180th & Flatbush Av

Runs Between Bowling Green & 125th St

Between 138th St-Concourse & BKLYN Bridge

Suspended

Runs Between Bway Junction and Jamaica Center

Runs Between Metrop. Av and Myrtle Av

Suspended

Suspended (Don't forget the )

Runs Between Prospect Park & Astoria-Ditmars Blvd

 

Shuttle buses provide alternate service in Bklyn & the Bronx but service is limited.

 

AND learn how to spell. Your things are wrong

[Priincenene]

I just going to ignore what CenSin says, and I will put a little less foam in this sceniro.

 

Flyovers are installed at 34 Street connecting the to the

Runs via the from 34 Street to Atlantic Avenue - Barclays then via the from Atlantic to Brighton Beach, operating time remains unchanged.

Becomes 24/7 Local Line

A flyover junction is placed at 4 Av-9 St connecting the to the and Line

runs via the from B'way to 4 Ave then switches to flyover and runs regular route to Coney Island. 

run via the R from Canal Street to Fulton Street then via their orignal routes.

Orange S runs from 34 Street to Grand Street via Local.

Is Extended back to 71 Street when M is running to 145 Street.

 

Runs to 71 Av from 5 am to 5 PM.

Other times M runs to 145 Street and in case that the gets backed up becuase the M is running, the M is extened to Bedford Pk Blvd.

 

Some D trains run via the F in case there are back-ups at 4 Av.

 

Someone please give me a opnion on if this is good or not?

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why the hell would you extend the all the way to the BX for?!?!

There is no Fulton St on the

And why would you make the run to the flyover when it was just INSTALLED?!

[Javier]

I'll go

Runs Between 168th & Chambers St

Runs Between 149th St-Concourse and New Lots

Suspended

Runs Between E. 180th & Flatbush Av

Runs Between Bowling Green & 125th St

Between 138th St-Concourse & BKLYN Bridge

Suspended

Runs Between Bway Junction and Jamaica Center

Runs Between Metrop. Av and Myrtle Av

Suspended

Suspended (Don't forget the )

Runs Between Prospect Park & Astoria-Ditmars Blvd

Shuttle buses provide alternate service in Bklyn & the Bronx but service is limited.

AND learn how to spell. Your things are wrong

I know how to spell it's my freaking AutoCorrect.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why the hell would you extend the all the way to the BX for?!?!

There is no Fulton St on the

And why would you make the run to the flyover when it was just INSTALLED?!

WallyHorse did it, and I don't know why I keep saying Fulton I mean Dekalb, and what flyover are you talking about!?

[MTA Dude]

Thank you for that (longly) detailed explanation. I forgot that the path station was there. Is there any other connection between the Broadway Line and the 6th Ave Line?

 

1) No.

2) Very costly. You have a million dollars?

[Javier]

1) No.

2) Very costly. You have a million dollars?

I wish.

[P3F]

@CenSin: Wouldn't it be more practical to install a crossover outside of Grand Street instead of rebuilding the express tracks to 2AV and abandoning Grand Street?

[Union Tpke]

What if there is a snowstorm like there is right now?

[Fresh Pond]

What if there is a snowstorm like there is right now?

Shut the system down like they are going to do in a few hours

[Union Tpke]

Shut the system down like they are going to do in a few hours

interesting response

[CenSin]

@CenSin: Wouldn't it be more practical to install a crossover outside of Grand Street instead of rebuilding the express tracks to 2AV and abandoning Grand Street?

Well, here's my logic:

1. You need a place to terminate the and a way to send the to Brooklyn, so you will need a pair of tracks to turn the and a switch to bring the into the Rutgers Street tunnel to Culver.
2. The can switch at West 4 Street–Washington Square, but that will cause it to interfere with the and is not much better than Wallyhorse's to Broadway Junction proposal or to 145 Street. Therefore, the must stay on the express tracks until the is out of the way.
3. The leaves 6 Avenue just shy of the 2 Avenue station where a switch connects the local track to the center pair of tracks at 2 Avenue. Since that is the location where a switch can be installed after the trains are out of the way, there needs to be a way to bring express trains to the local track at that location.
4. In order to bring express trains to 2 Avenue on a pair of tracks separate from the , the ramp down to Grand Street must be filled in and restored to its original design. This brings express trains straight to 2 Avenue without interfering with the . At 2 Avenue, trains can switch to the local track Brooklyn-bound and to the express track Bronx-bound. At the same time, the has a pair of tracks to turn trains. All of this happens while avoiding more than 2 route on any segment of track so there are never more than 2 services contending for the same space. This cuts down on delays.

If we went with the Grand Street terminal option, then trains would have to share West 4 Street and Broadway–Lafayette Street with the and , which can't be good for the since it runs with such high frequency. Of course, you could also install a switch west of Broadway–Lafayette to bring trains to the local track, and send the via 8 Avenue, but you'd be pushing the problem to another line, and it's at the sacrifice of the , , and since their frequencies will now be reduced.

Edited January 27, 2015 by CenSin