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Tricknologist

Question about late nite service pre-90's

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Indeed. Half-length (H.L.) trains on most lines including the old (2) from 241 Street-White Plains Road to New Lots Avenue-Livonia Avenue (rather than Flatbush Avenue-Nostrand Avenue, its present full-time terminus). According to retired train operator Trainmaster5 they called that thing "the beast."

 

They switched to full-length (F.L.) trains because, according to Mike Gerald, it was found that H.L. trains do not save much money over F.L. trains. Additionally and obviously, they forced people to have to run for trains or miss them because the people entered the platform from the "wrong" entrance, which is not an issue with F.L. trains, since the back end of the train is right there at the "wrong" entrance ("wrong" for H.L. trains only).

 

Back end of a H.L. train, on the other hand, is 255 to 300 feet away. It was decided that the downsides outweighed the upsides when it came to H.L. trains.

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IIRC, as a native NYer born 1960 who rode the subways to school on a regular basis starting in 1974, crime was a reason for the 1/2 length trains as it was assumed having more passengers in each car would cut down on crime which was rampant in the 80's.Back then people were reluctant to ride subways outside of the 7AM-10AM and 4PM to 7PM or so time periods. I believe the 1/2 train length experiment was even tried for a short while from 10AM to 3PM. It was obviously a pain to separate cars after 10AM. What a contrast to today. I rode a 10 car E train around 9:15PM this past Saturday evening from Queens to Manhattan which was beyond rush hour crowed with shoppers, partyers, and working people.

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they also has h.l. trains on the A during winter weekends in the early 90's to increase security. 4-car R44s were used and you didnt see 32s or 38s untill the weekdays.

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The 2 is still called "the beast" even though it's not quite as long as the original.

 

Reasons for doing away with short trains (in order of importance):

-costs associated with cutting trains and moving pieces to the yard for storage, then costs associated with adding to make full length trains for the AM rush.

-lack of financial incentive to run short trains (yes, uses less power, but that's a drop in the bucket to the TA)

-more semipermanent units means most full length trains cannot be cut to any length other than half length (exceptions: R32s, R42s, R68 pairs, R46 pairs, R62A singles). Everything else is a unit.

-speed of operation (no need for trains to be delayed waiting for customers who stand where the train isn't stopping - bulletins dictate train crews should wait a reasonable time for customers to board the train if they see them, even if it exceeds the scheduled dwell time)...helps on time performance which is always terrible during the overnights.

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The 2 is still called "the beast" even though it's not quite as long as the original.

 

Reasons for doing away with short trains (in order of importance):

-costs associated with cutting trains and moving pieces to the yard for storage, then costs associated with adding to make full length trains for the AM rush.

-lack of financial incentive to run short trains (yes, uses less power, but that's a drop in the bucket to the TA)

-more semipermanent units means most full length trains cannot be cut to any length other than half length (exceptions: R32s, R42s, R68 pairs, R46 pairs, R62A singles). Everything else is a unit.

-speed of operation (no need for trains to be delayed waiting for customers who stand where the train isn't stopping - bulletins dictate train crews should wait a reasonable time for customers to board the train if they see them, even if it exceeds the scheduled dwell time)...helps on time performance which is always terrible during the overnights.

 

Just a question: how come on time performance is terrible during the overnights? I've never ridden the NYC subway at those hours, but I always assumed it would be much better due to little train traffic..

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Just a question: how come on time performance is terrible during the overnights? I've never ridden the NYC subway at those hours, but I always assumed it would be much better due to little train traffic..

 

Construction flagging (necessary) for track and third rail work, signal inspections, and stations and infrastructure projects. Slows down operating speeds of trains to no more than 10MPH within in the limits of the flagging.

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Construction flagging (necessary) for track and third rail work, signal inspections, and stations and infrastructure projects. Slows down operating speeds of trains to no more than 10MPH within in the limits of the flagging.

 

...also,garbage trains and revenue pickup trains.

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Just a question: how come on time performance is terrible during the overnights? I've never ridden the NYC subway at those hours, but I always assumed it would be much better due to little train traffic..

 

To summarize the two previous posts, yes, there's less revenue train traffic, but far more non-revenue traffic and construction then there is during the day.

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...also,garbage trains and revenue pickup trains.

 

Yes, those don't help either, but track gangs cause most of the delays.

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To summarize the two previous posts, yes, there's less revenue train traffic, but far more non-revenue traffic and construction then there is during the day.

 

Which is why all these extend this here and extend that there (threads and posts) doesn't work, people here tend to take a blind eye or haven't regularly rode the system in the wee hours. Interlockings that are clear for this type of work and maintenance to go on would then be clogged for service that's more convenience based than ridership based.

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