Ideas: 161 to New York PABT (via Union City) 4pm

[161 New York]

Hi everyone!

 

I am tentatively scheduled to begin a new job, 5 days a week, weekdays, in two weeks. My building has a rush hour 161 bus stop right in front. I commute to/from Staten Island. In the morning my commute is consistently 1 hour 15 minutes (x22 or x23 or x24 to 161) with the price of gas/tolls and traffic this is acceptable. However, my evening commute can be a lot longer.

 

My observations/question:

 

On Mondays/Tuesdays/Most Wednesdays, going from Union City to PABT through the Lincoln Tunnel is fairly quick (minimal to no backups). However, when turning into to PABT and going to the third floor from the street takes nearly 20 - 30 minutes as the bus must queue up and discharge at a gate (rather than the regular curbside discharge). I am writing to NJ Transit, Port Authority and the State Assembly-person in the district I work in about this. In the meantime.

 

Q. Is there any NJT bus I can take from Union City in the 4pm weekday hour along 30th Street that can discharge passengers as soon as it arrives at the PABT? I will have a 3-zone monthly pass.

 

Please do not suggest mini-buses. Lets go with the reason of wanting to use my monthly pass.

 

On Thursdays/Fridays. I take the 161 to the last stop in Union City, walk down to the HBLR at Lincoln Harbor and take the s89 home. It takes almost two hour, however the Lincoln Tunnel traffic and PABT is unbearable at that day and hour.

 

Thanks for any ideas/feedback!

[BZGuy]

Everybody is gonna drop in the PABT. Some drivers used to drop off after the came out of the tunnel over by 35th St, however the NYPD has been aggressively ticketing NJT drivers for this. So alot of guys are not gonna take the chance of letting off outside of the Port. Supposedly the cops won't mess with them if they drop off at a MTA bus stop on 10th Av but just trying to get around to 10th can be rough on good days.

 

Long term, something will have to be done about the upper level of the PABT. Some runs are averaging 1+hr from the time they enter the tunnel to arrival on a gate.

[161 New York]

Everybody is gonna drop in the PABT. Some drivers used to drop off after the came out of the tunnel over by 35th St, however the NYPD has been aggressively ticketing NJT drivers for this. So alot of guys are not gonna take the chance of letting off outside of the Port. Supposedly the cops won't mess with them if they drop off at a MTA bus stop on 10th Av but just trying to get around to 10th can be rough on good days.

 

Long term, something will have to be done about the upper level of the PABT. Some runs are averaging 1+hr from the time they enter the tunnel to arrival on a gate.

 

 

Wow! I wasn't aware about the ticketing. I mean if a bus operator can discharge safely at the curb, no problem.

 

Anyways, yes the upper level is messy. But what I don't understand is why the bus operator is prohibited from discharging passengers at the curb along the usual arrival area, ie the area when the bus first enters the PABT building itself. Instead the bus must wait in a queue to get into a gate, which can take up to 30-60 minutes (with traffic) from Union City. Recently, a B/O who was filling in for the usual bus operator on the 161 said she got a verbal warning from the dispatcher for dropping off passengers as soon as she arrived into the building.

 

I have seen other buses do drop offs upon arrival into the building, but I can't see the numbers. Why not the 161?

 

In the meanwhile, if anyone can suggest one of those buses that does immediate drop offs, OR perhaps a bus that goes into the basement from Union City at 4pm, that would be helpful. Otherwise, that will be my project tomorrow into next week.

[SirJokaPlaya]

I hope this helps you since I'm a former NJT Operator, 161.

 

Wow! I wasn't aware about the ticketing. I mean if a bus operator can discharge safely at the curb, no problem.

 

 

- As for allowing passengers to get off once they get out of the Lincoln Tunnel, about time NYPD did that. I was 100% against passengers getting off at unsafe stops and stops that are not marked NJT. Personally, if I drop passengers off at a MTA stop, I'd expect a ticket since I'm not a MTA bus and I'm using their space to drop off passengers. If a MTA bus was coming and I was slowing him/her down, they would call the company and I'd have to explain. There is only ONE schedule in NJT that allows passengers to get dropped off at MTA stops, and that's the 120 bus that goes to Wall Street. No other NJT line has permission to do that. Other drivers would do it, but that is their discretion to do it or not.

 

Anyways, yes the upper level is messy. But what I don't understand is why the bus operator is prohibited from discharging passengers at the curb along the usual arrival area, ie the area when the bus first enters the PABT building itself. Instead the bus must wait in a queue to get into a gate, which can take up to 30-60 minutes (with traffic) from Union City. Recently, a B/O who was filling in for the usual bus operator on the 161 said she got a verbal warning from the dispatcher for dropping off passengers as soon as she arrived into the building.

 

I have seen other buses do drop offs upon arrival into the building, but I can't see the numbers. Why not the 161?

 

 

Between 3:55pm to 7pm Monday-Friday, it's Rush Hour at PABT. Since 2009, PABT and NJ Transit made a traffic plan to ease congestion.

- All buses that are to pick up passengers in Gates 200-205, 210-214, and 230-234 must be in the right lane, where passengers can be discharged. When a bus gets to the area, they can discharge their passengers but also must keep traffic going. So, for example, if I just got in PABT & there is a bus ahead of me, as long as I have enough space to let my passengers get off safely, I'll can let them out. Now, when the bus ahead of me moves up, I have to stop letting passengers go and move up until I'm on that bus' rear, and once again let passengers get out.

- All buses that are picking passengers in gates 300 - 326 must remain in the left lane and may not drop off passengers until they reach their normal pickup gate, from there they can drop off their passengers and then board passengers. Since the 161/151X picks up passengers in gate 303, they have to wait until they get to gate 303 and then drop off their passengers.

- One other thing that you need to consider as well. Not all NJT drivers do the same route that they enter the PABT to. For example, I've done trips to NYC on one route, then change to another. If you saw a 161 driver dropping off passengers on the curb, it is because he or she might be doing a trip on the 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, or 199, which is on gates 233 and 234. Otherwise, he has to be on that left lane. NJT and PABT are very strict about that rule.

 

Where is your bus stop on the 151 (161 express) ? Is it on Route 46?

[161 New York]

Between 3:55pm to 7pm Monday-Friday, it's Rush Hour at PABT. Since 2009, PABT and NJ Transit made a traffic plan to ease congestion.

- All buses that are to pick up passengers in Gates 200-205, 210-214, and 230-234 must be in the right lane, where passengers can be discharged. When a bus gets to the area, they can discharge their passengers but also must keep traffic going. So, for example, if I just got in PABT & there is a bus ahead of me, as long as I have enough space to let my passengers get off safely, I'll can let them out. Now, when the bus ahead of me moves up, I have to stop letting passengers go and move up until I'm on that bus' rear, and once again let passengers get out.

- All buses that are picking passengers in gates 300 - 326 must remain in the left lane and may not drop off passengers until they reach their normal pickup gate, from there they can drop off their passengers and then board passengers. Since the 161/151X picks up passengers in gate 303, they have to wait until they get to gate 303 and then drop off their passengers.

- One other thing that you need to consider as well. Not all NJT drivers do the same route that they enter the PABT to. For example, I've done trips to NYC on one route, then change to another. If you saw a 161 driver dropping off passengers on the curb, it is because he or she might be doing a trip on the 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, or 199, which is on gates 233 and 234. Otherwise, he has to be on that left lane. NJT and PABT are very strict about that rule.

 

Where is your bus stop on the 151 (161 express) ? Is it on Route 46?

 

 

Hi SirJokaPlaya! Thank you for your information

 

My stop will be near Moonachie Road/ Moonachie Avenue area. I use the bus Teterboro vs. Commerce Blvd bus in the morning.

 

You gave me a good idea to help me with my research. A bus originating out of the Wayne Garage can only do routes that go out of there (i.e a 161 cannot do a 167) correct?

 

So, I'm going to cross reference bus routes that stop in Union City at 4pm hour , the garage they come out of and the PABT departure gate.

[553 Bridgeton]

A 161 Wayne driver could do a 167 if the situation presented itself. Im a Egg Harbor driver and done emergency runs on the 128/129/190/190X.

[pjbr40]

isn't the top level is smaller then basement. i now basement got the connecting tunnel on the 8th ave side. i been in basement for years with academy. Sometime i get drop off at different gates when entering pabt. i sen some drivers drop off passenger at trans bridge or peter pan gate.

[553 Bridgeton]

Im sorry but what the hell is sen?

[BZGuy]

Outta Union City, you might wanna try catching a 124,129,163, or 190. They all drop off along the side once they enter the building. But it might be for naught......some drivers will go back onto 495 outta Union City so they can get the left lane for the tunnel. Because of the mess on 10th Av, alot more buses are doing that lately. Personally I don't mind because if I was in a rush I would be taking the train but some other passengers tend to get pissy about it.

 

And about the NJT buses using the MTA stops on 10th Ave.....that info is coming from supervision. I've been hearing it come over the radio the last couple of day during the PM rush.

[checkmatechamp13]

Hi SirJokaPlaya! Thank you for your information

 

My stop will be near Moonachie Road/ Moonachie Avenue area. I use the bus Teterboro vs. Commerce Blvd bus in the morning.

 

You gave me a good idea to help me with my research. A bus originating out of the Wayne Garage can only do routes that go out of there (i.e a 161 cannot do a 167) correct?

 

So, I'm going to cross reference bus routes that stop in Union City at 4pm hour , the garage they come out of and the PABT departure gate.

 

 

Just a suggestion: If you could get a lift to the Wood Ridge station, would there be a Pascack Valley Line train that fits your schedule? Because then you could take it to Hoboken directly instead of taking having to make an additional transfer (#161->HBLR->Bayonne HBLR) and you also save yourself from having to make a couple of extra stops on the HBLR.

 

Or you could try BZGuy's suggestion and transfer again in Union City.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Hi SirJokaPlaya! Thank you for your information

 

My stop will be near Moonachie Road/ Moonachie Avenue area. I use the bus Teterboro vs. Commerce Blvd bus in the morning.

 

You gave me a good idea to help me with my research. A bus originating out of the Wayne Garage can only do routes that go out of there (i.e a 161 cannot do a 167) correct?

 

So, I'm going to cross reference bus routes that stop in Union City at 4pm hour , the garage they come out of and the PABT departure gate.

 

 

Can I offer a suggestion?

 

Since you said you're gonna cross reference buses that stop in Union City, let me offer you this:

 

- Take the 161 to Union City

- Get off on 30th and Summit Avenue, the stop after Kennedy Blvd/Toys R Us

- Take the 85 to Hoboken Terminal. It arrives on Summit Avenue between 30th and 29th Street at 4:03pm.

- You should get to the Terminal by 4:30, where you can you use your monthly pass to the HBLR, taking the 4:36 Bayonne flyer, which would get you to 34th Street in Bayonne @ 4:57

- Take the s89 bus at 5:04pm to get to Staten Island.

 

Schedules:

 

NJT 85: http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/bus/T0085.pdf

NJT HBLR: http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/bus/T0100.pdf

MTA S85 Bus: http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/staten/s089cur.pdf

 

A 161 Wayne driver could do a 167 if the situation presented itself. Im a Egg Harbor driver and done emergency runs on the 128/129/190/190X.

 

 

553 is correct. Normally, Wayne does not do the 167 since that garage do not work that route. Yet, if there is a driver that knows the route and there is a emergency situation, they can do it. I've done the 190 to Paterson when I worked at Meadowlands, yet I'm only allowed to go up to Rutherford. Wayne only has the 75, 151, 161, and 190-199. I've done trips for other garages because I know the route, but only for emergency situations, which is rare. As for cross referencing buses that come out of the garages, what do you mean exactly?

[checkmatechamp13]

Can I offer a suggestion?

 

Since you said you're gonna cross reference buses that stop in Union City, let me offer you this:

 

- Take the 161 to Union City

- Get off on 30th and Summit Avenue, the stop after Kennedy Blvd/Toys R Us

- Take the 85 to Hoboken Terminal. It arrives on Summit Avenue between 30th and 29th Street at 4:03pm.

- You should get to the Terminal by 4:30, where you can you use your monthly pass to the HBLR, taking the 4:36 Bayonne flyer, which would get you to 34th Street in Bayonne @ 4:57

- Take the s89 bus at 5:04pm to get to Staten Island.

 

Schedules:

 

NJT 85: http://www.njtransit...f/bus/T0085.pdf

NJT HBLR: http://www.njtransit...f/bus/T0100.pdf

MTA S85 Bus: http://www.mta.info/...ten/s089cur.pdf

 

 

He said he uses that as his backup when the Lincoln Tunnel is backed up. The only difference is that he'd be using the #85 to reach Hoboken instead of the HBLR.

 

Plus, he said he takes the X22/23/24 to get to Manhattan in the morning, so I don't think he lives within walking distance of the S89.

[SirJokaPlaya]

He said he uses that as his backup when the Lincoln Tunnel is backed up. The only difference is that he'd be using the #85 to reach Hoboken instead of the HBLR.

 

Plus, he said he takes the X22/23/24 to get to Manhattan in the morning, so I don't think he lives within walking distance of the S89.

 

 

Oh.....I thought when he gets off on 34th Street in Bayonne, he can take the S89 from there...........oops.

[161 New York]

Just a suggestion: If you could get a lift to the Wood Ridge station, would there be a Pascack Valley Line train that fits your schedule? Because then you could take it to Hoboken directly instead of taking having to make an additional transfer (#161->HBLR->Bayonne HBLR) and you also save yourself from having to make a couple of extra stops on the HBLR.

 

Or you could try BZGuy's suggestion and transfer again in Union City.

 

Thanks checkmatechamp for the suggestion. I have considered using the train as the walk isn't too bad from my building. Unfortunately, my monthly bus pass is not accepted on the train.

 

 

Oh.....I thought when he gets off on 34th Street in Bayonne, he can take the S89 from there...........oops.

 

SJP had it right, I have done the s89 before from that area. I can get back to Staten Island using the s89 from Bayonne to the s55/s56 at Eltingville Transit Center to get to my home OR just walk (about 1 mile). The traffic on Thursdays/Fridays is unbearable getting into New York on the 161.

 

The x22/x23/x24 or even the x17j can get me home no problem or within walking distance (or another bus in the case of the x22). I just want to get in and out of New York as fast as possible when getting off the 161.

 

Going the HBLR route I usually get off at the last bus stop in Weehawken and walk down to Lincoln Harbor (0.7 mi downhill) or walk up Bergenline (0.9 m and done when I am hungry), I then take the light rail (West Side Ave line) to Liberty State Park where the 8th Street train is not far behind. I have tinkered with the 22 to Hoboken Terminal before, but as I expected there was a lot of stop and go traffic.

 

Thank you all again for your replies and feedback, the information is very helpful!

[checkmatechamp13]

Thanks checkmatechamp for the suggestion. I have considered using the train as the walk isn't too bad from my building. Unfortunately, my monthly bus pass is not accepted on the train.

 

I've wondered how the cross-honoring of passes works on the bus vs. train. If you bought a Wood Ridge-Penn Station pass, would it be valid on the 161? Because I thought you could use train passes on the bus, but not vice versa (or is that only during shutdowns?) And are passes to Penn Station also valid to Hoboken? I'm just trying to see if there's a loophole that can get you home faster.

[161 New York]

I've wondered how the cross-honoring of passes works on the bus vs. train. If you bought a Wood Ridge-Penn Station pass, would it be valid on the 161? Because I thought you could use train passes on the bus, but not vice versa (or is that only during shutdowns?) And are passes to Penn Station also valid to Hoboken? I'm just trying to see if there's a loophole that can get you home faster.

 

You are correct. If I bought a Wood Ridge to NY Penn Station monthly train pass, it would be valid on the 161. However, the cost would be $20 more per month ($156 train pass per month vs. $136 per month for a 161 bus pass) . Also the scheduling convenience is simply not there.

 

The NJT Bus Pass is valid for the bus and light rail systems only and not valid on the train unless cross-honoring is in effect (during snowstorms and the like).

 

The NJT Rail Pass is valid on everything up to stations and bus zones imprinted on the pass.

 

In May since the weather is nice and I have a monthly pass I will try different combinations (except those minibuses which is a separate topic).

[SirJokaPlaya]

Thanks checkmatechamp for the suggestion. I have considered using the train as the walk isn't too bad from my building. Unfortunately, my monthly bus pass is not accepted on the train.

 

SJP had it right, I have done the s89 before from that area. I can get back to Staten Island using the s89 from Bayonne to the s55/s56 at Eltingville Transit Center to get to my home OR just walk (about 1 mile). The traffic on Thursdays/Fridays is unbearable getting into New York on the 161.

 

The x22/x23/x24 or even the x17j can get me home no problem or within walking distance (or another bus in the case of the x22). I just want to get in and out of New York as fast as possible when getting off the 161.

 

Going the HBLR route I usually get off at the last bus stop in Weehawken and walk down to Lincoln Harbor (0.7 mi downhill) or walk up Bergenline (0.9 m and done when I am hungry), I then take the light rail (West Side Ave line) to Liberty State Park where the 8th Street train is not far behind. I have tinkered with the 22 to Hoboken Terminal before, but as I expected there was a lot of stop and go traffic.

 

Thank you all again for your replies and feedback, the information is very helpful!

 

 

I forgot about the 22. The only reason i didn't mention it is that you have a TON of traffic on Bergenline Avenue from 32nd to 22nd, where the 22 turns on 22nd Street to get down to Palisades Avenue. But, that's another option to if you can't get to the 85 in time.