Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[qjtransitmaster]

Speaking of route modifications based on nothing but foam or guessing, I got one:

With the getting more funds for operations, people are calling for the 2010 service reductions to be undone (though with efficiency, not to throw money around). One of the routes cut was the X29. I figure to get better ridership, It needs people from the towers in Brighton and by Neptune to use it. I'm too lazy to map it out, but I'd go usual route, only near the end at W 5 St, rather than go West on Surf, turn East on Brighton and go down that way to terminate at Corbin Place. Viable? Dumb? Bounds for seeking mental health help?

LOL WOW x29 err maybe it is dumb. Then again the sad part and only thing that makes it viable well at least it had more riders than bxm4.

Edited April 9, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

Speaking of route modifications based on nothing but foam or guessing, I got one:

 

With the getting more funds for operations, people are calling for the 2010 service reductions to be undone (though with efficiency, not to throw money around). One of the routes cut was the X29. I figure to get better ridership, It needs people from the towers in Brighton and by Neptune to use it. I'm too lazy to map it out, but I'd go usual route, only near the end at W 5 St, rather than go West on Surf, turn East on Brighton and go down that way to terminate at Corbin Place...

 

Corbin place? Don't see the point in sending the x29 over there; those folks take the BM3.

 

Besides, buses would lose time getting stuck along brighton beach av...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Not compared to other QM routes actually it's weak. Plus Q21 is a local B103 is LIMITED STOPS. LIRR vs express bus only applies to a few routes anyway and all of them that vs LIRR are in the bottom 5 in terms of ridership. X63 most of it's ridership is not within walking distance to LIRR. The ones that are are very low in rank. They aren't like BXM1/2 where ridership is actually high.

The QM15 has like 2 local and two express routes, and it does good. It won't do bad to send routes to the city, because these runs deadhead shortly after.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Also since there is a discussion about this in another thread, I wondered why the MTA doesnt run one of the BM deadheads along the course of the X25, but starting from their original terminal at 57 street, then through downtown, and vice versa in the PM peak, and then go to Brooklyn

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Also since there is a discussion about this in another thread, I wondered why the MTA doesnt run one of the BM deadheads along the course of the X25, but starting from their original terminal at 57 street, then through downtown, and vice versa in the PM peak, and then go to Brooklyn

Huh???!?!? 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Huh???!?!? 

You mentioned bringing back the X25 in this thread : http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/40622-how-will-the-mta-spend-its-new-found-money/page-2?do=findComment&comment=666157

 

So, Why not make several of the BM deadhead trips on one route as revenue trips, instead of reverting the X29 AND X25, since the X25 interlined from the X29, and the X27/X28 trips are fine as they are. 

Edited April 9, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You mentioned bringing back the X25 in this thread : http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/40622-how-will-the-mta-spend-its-new-found-money/page-2?do=findComment&comment=666157

 

So, Why not make several of the BM deadhead trips on one route as revenue trips, instead of reverting the X29 AND X25, since the X25 interlined from the X29, and the X27/X28 trips are fine as they are. 

I don't think that's possible because the BM express bus routes are Bus routes. The X25 was a NYCT route and if it came back I'm sure Ulmer Park would want it, so that could create problems amongst the unions, but your idea isn't a bad one at all.  I'm just wondering if there was a specific express bus route out of Ulmer Park that those X25 runs interlined with or what? 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I don't think that's possible because the BM express bus routes are Bus routes. The X25 was a NYCT route and if it came back I'm sure Ulmer Park would want it, so that could create problems amongst the unions, but your idea isn't a bad one at all.  I'm just wondering if there was a specific express bus route out of Ulmer Park that those X25 runs interlined with or what? 

All X25 trips came from X29 trips, which also is discontinued.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

All X25 trips came from X29 trips, which also is discontinued.

I see... Well if anything they should try to get the X29 back but look at how to improve it to attract more riders.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I see... Well if anything they should try to get the X29 back but look at how to improve it to attract more riders.  

Or the BM3 can go and run their deadheads back to Brooklyn in service instead of deadheads, because the MTA doesnt seem to want to restore long routes discontinued in 2010.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[Culver]

I see... Well if anything they should try to get the X29 back but look at how to improve it to attract more riders.  

Those towers at the end. Need those people to use it. I suggest my previous proposal, but rather than running it all the way to Corbin, end at Ocean Parkway and Brighton.

 

My previous proposal:

I figure to get better ridership, It needs people from the towers in Brighton and by Neptune to use it. I'm too lazy to map it out, but I'd go usual route, only near the end at W 5 St, rather than go West on Surf, turn East on Brighton and go down that way to terminate at Corbin Place Ocean Parkway.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Culver

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those towers at the end. Need those people to use it. I suggest my previous proposal, but rather than running it all the way to Corbin, end at Ocean Parkway and Brighton.

Well those towers would be a perfect place to market the X29... It's dense and those folks could afford the express bus.  That's why Riverdale works so well because you have a lot of co-ops and condos in Spuyten Duyvil especially that allow easy access to the express bus.  Hell that co-op there on Kappock (555 Kappock) gets a lot of riders.  It's almost like having door to door service without the added costs of taking car service.

[qjtransitmaster]

You mentioned bringing back the X25 in this thread : http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/40622-how-will-the-mta-spend-its-new-found-money/page-2?do=findComment&comment=666157

 

So, Why not make several of the BM deadhead trips on one route as revenue trips, instead of reverting the X29 AND X25, since the X25 interlined from the X29, and the X27/X28 trips are fine as they are. 

best idea so far.

One way would be to reroute BM4 via ave L to CI ave covering part of X29's route with the southern part where it is by brighton let X28 cover that. Or BM4 via ave P to CI ave the clearance at those aves is tall enough for an express bus to pass through. BM4 could use some former X29 riders. Ocean ave has BM3 and BM1.

 

Those towers at the end. Need those people to use it. I suggest my previous proposal, but rather than running it all the way to Corbin, end at Ocean Parkway and Brighton.

 

My previous proposal:

I figure to get better ridership, It needs people from the towers in Brighton and by Neptune to use it. I'm too lazy to map it out, but I'd go usual route, only near the end at W 5 St, rather than go West on Surf, turn East on Brighton and go down that way to terminate at Corbin Place Ocean Parkway.

If most ridership was in coney island then why not take it off of coney island ave and run it on ocean parkway instead?

To be honest if you can only get ridership from those towers in brighton and by neptune just extend X28 over to serve those areas at rush. via the belt one exit over.

Well those towers would be a perfect place to market the X29... It's dense and those folks could afford the express bus.  That's why Riverdale works so well because you have a lot of co-ops and condos in Spuyten Duyvil especially that allow easy access to the express bus.  Hell that co-op there on Kappock (555 Kappock) gets a lot of riders.  It's almost like having door to door service without the added costs of taking car service.

Unlike X29 your BXM2 was actually express and is fast X29 runs on some local road for most of it's trip vs X38/28 but you did give me an idea.

Edited April 10, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

....If most ridership was in coney island then why not take it off of coney island ave and run it on ocean parkway instead?

 

To be honest if you can only get ridership from those towers in brighton and by neptune just extend X28 over to serve those areas at rush. via the belt one exit over.

- Nah, most the x29 ridership wasn't in Coney Island....

- Not running buses & picking up pax along all of Ocean Parkway; there's restrictions that don't allow for it....

You're not the first person to suggest that btw.....

 

...and stop with the extending of the x28 eastward & along the god damn belt already...

 

 

I see... Well if anything they should try to get the X29 back but look at how to improve it to attract more riders.  

Well those towers would be a perfect place to market the X29... It's dense and those folks could afford the express bus.

The MTA did everything in its power to justify getting rid of the x29 - Including a decrease in service & a span alteration that weakened its usage.... It's BS.... Before they did that crap to it, I would take x29's to church (av), and buses at times would actually have standing pax on em.... They weren't empty (or as slow) as some might have you believe....

 

As far as what Culver's saying/suggesting..... It's not necessarily a bad idea per se, but instead of directly serving Brighton Towers, all I would do with the x29 is to shorten it to terminate at the Luna Park co-ops.....

Edited April 10, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

- Nah, most the x29 ridership wasn't in Coney Island....

- Not running buses & picking up pax along all of Ocean Parkway; there's restrictions that don't allow for it....

You're not the first person to suggest that btw.....

 

...and stop with the extending of the x28 eastward & along the god damn belt already...

 

 

The MTA did everything in its power to justify getting rid of the x29 - Including a decrease in service & a span alteration that weakened its usage.... It's BS.... Before they did that crap to it, I would take x29's to church (av), and buses at times would actually have standing pax on em.... They weren't empty (or as slow) as some might have you believe....

 

As far as what Culver's saying/suggesting..... It's not necessarily a bad idea per se, but instead of directly serving Brighton Towers, all I would do with the x29 is to shorten it to terminate at the Luna Park co-ops.....

That is walking distance from X28. Where was the bulk of X29's ridership as it it's strongest segment? 

Plus the via belt is just one exit meaning 2 mins tops. If any line should have been gotten rid of it would be the bxm4 it only exists cause it's mta bus corp.

[B35 via Church]

That is walking distance from X28. Where was the bulk of X29's ridership as it it's strongest segment? 

Plus the via belt is just one exit meaning 2 mins tops.....

- I don't care if it's one inch via the belt...

The x28 has no business running along the belt in that direction, nor panning in that direction period.

 

- The bulk of the overall x29 usage was between like midwood and av Z.... If you saw anyone (any "regular") on the bus after av z, it was a sure bet that person was getting off for the warbasse houses, trump towers, or for brightwater towers..... In any case, those patrons in the vicinity of any of those high rise's did not use the x29 in mass numbers... For whatever their reason(s) unfortunately....

[Culver]

- I don't care if it's one inch via the belt...

The x28 has no business running along the belt in that direction, nor panning in that direction period.

 

- The bulk of the overall x29 usage was between like midwood and av Z.... If you saw anyone (any "regular") on the bus after av z, it was a sure bet that person was getting off for the warbasse houses, trump towers, or for brightwater towers..... In any case, those patrons in the vicinity of any of those high rise's did not use the x29 in mass numbers... For whatever their reason(s) unfortunately....

Well if the can put the X29 on schedule for a fall 2013 restoration, hand out a 180MCI/120Pre split on the express bus contract, and replace all of Ulmer's old MCI coaches with Prevosts, maybe they'll see the new, shiny buses and think "Oh, ok, I'll take that bus." Not sure what else they want. They have a subway station all to themselves, but they seem to be scared of the icky subway.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Culver

[B35 via Church]

Well if the can put the X29 on schedule for a fall 2013 restoration, hand out a 180MCI/120Pre split on the express bus contract, and replace all of Ulmer's old MCI coaches with Prevosts, maybe they'll see the new, shiny buses and think "Oh, ok, I'll take that bus." Not sure what else they want. They have a subway station all to themselves, but they seem to be scared of the icky subway.

I have a guess as to what they want, but they're not gonna get it.... That is, a direct bus straight to Manhattan from their immediate area....

Folks out in Rockaway Park (for lower manhattan) want the same thing.....

 

Sucks, but the MTA could've revamped the Brighton line using 24 karat solid gold & those folks in those co-ops/towers (that don't already do so) will never use the subway.... Have to remember that, to them, the nearby subway stations back in the 70's & 80's were unsafe, and that stigma of sorts will never be eradicated.... To this day, too many people driving.... What you're saying about new buses & what not could bring more people to the x29 if it were to be reverted, but not nearly enough unfortunately (for as dense as that part of Brooklyn is)...

 

One would think Neptune av & West 8th st would be heavily used stations, but they really aren't....

Matter fact, they're two of the lesser used stations in the entire borough....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I have a guess as to what they want, but they're not gonna get it.... That is, a direct bus straight to Manhattan from their immediate area....

Folks out in Rockaway Park (for lower manhattan) want the same thing.....

 

Sucks, but the MTA could've revamped the Brighton line using 24 karat solid gold & those folks in those co-ops/towers (that don't already do so) will never use the subway.... Have to remember that, to them, the nearby subway stations back in the 70's & 80's were unsafe, and that stigma of sorts will never be eradicated.... To this day, too many people driving.... What you're saying about new buses & what not could bring more people to the x29 if it were to be reverted, but not nearly enough unfortunately (for as dense as that part of Brooklyn is)...

 

One would think Neptune av & West 8th st would be heavily used stations, but they really aren't....

Matter fact, they're two of the lesser used stations in the entire borough....

LOL... Definitely true... I've noticed that myself when I'm taken the X28 and took the over to Sheepshead Bay. That area is still kind of sketchy so if I had to do that for an every day commute I wouldn't use the subway either. Even in the day time it has a sketchy feel to it and you see cops about in and around the station.

 

- I don't care if it's one inch via the belt...

The x28 has no business running along the belt in that direction, nor panning in that direction period.

 

- The bulk of the overall x29 usage was between like midwood and av Z.... If you saw anyone (any "regular") on the bus after av z, it was a sure bet that person was getting off for the warbasse houses, trump towers, or for brightwater towers..... In any case, those patrons in the vicinity of any of those high rise's did not use the x29 in mass numbers... For whatever their reason(s) unfortunately....

Yep... Whenever I used the X29, I'd get off at Avenue Z and Coney Island and there were maybe 2 or 3 people left tops if anyone at all.

 

The MTA did everything in its power to justify getting rid of the x29 - Including a decrease in service & a span alteration that weakened its usage.... It's BS.... Before they did that crap to it, I would take x29's to church (av), and buses at times would actually have standing pax on em.... They weren't empty (or as slow) as some might have you believe....

 

As far as what Culver's saying/suggesting..... It's not necessarily a bad idea per se, but instead of directly serving Brighton Towers, all I would do with the x29 is to shorten it to terminate at the Luna Park co-ops.....

Yeah that was evident as I noticed how empty some X29's would be... I do have to wonder though if there was a shift in the demographics that led to a decrease in the X29 as well. In other words do you have more pro-subway folks in the areas that the X29 used to serve as opposed to back in the day.

[B35 via Church]

LOL... Definitely true... I've noticed that myself when I'm taken the X28 and took the over to Sheepshead Bay. That area is still kind of sketchy so if I had to do that for an every day commute I wouldn't use the subway either. Even in the day time it has a sketchy feel to it and you see cops about in and around the station.

 

 

Yep... Whenever I used the X29, I'd get off at Avenue Z and Coney Island and there were maybe 2 or 3 people left tops if anyone at all.

 

 

Yeah that was evident as I noticed how empty some X29's would be... I do have to wonder though if there was a shift in the demographics that led to a decrease in the X29 as well. In other words do you have more pro-subway folks in the areas that the X29 used to serve as opposed to back in the day.

 

With Neptune av , the funniest complaint I have heard is that the station is "too far away"...

I don't care for the locale of that station either, but the distance argument I'm not buying.....

 

Many might not know this, but West 8th st is largely used as a transfer station.... I crack up at the people that get off the Stillwell bound at West 8th because the train is taking too long to move for their tastes... So what they'll do is either exit the station & catch the CI bound B36 on street level, or go run downstairs & wait for/catch the F..... Don't know what the stats are or w/e, but West 8th has very few "unique" riders using that station..... Even though the renovation look(ed) nice, a part of me kinda thinks it was all for naught for that reason.... You're right, to this day it does have somewhat of a sketchy feel to it.... It's also a PITA to walk up all those stairs or use that ramp to get in/out of the station.....

 

The x29.... When I first started taking that route, even I was surprised how little usage it got down by the trump towers & the warbasse houses.... [Ocean pkwy/neptune] & [the stop along west 5th] were the only 2 stops that saw (the little) usage it got..... Nobody would get off at the terminal (stillwell/surf) itself, and that makes sense when you think about it....

[checkmatechamp13]

Or the BM3 can go and run their deadheads back to Brooklyn in service instead of deadheads, because the MTA doesnt seem to want to restore long routes discontinued in 2010.

 

The problem is those deadheads are in the reverse-peak direction.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The problem is those deadheads are in the reverse-peak direction.

However if you were to restore the X25 route somehow, that's the only thing that is feasible. MTA is not bringing the X29, like B35 said, they made the route bastardized towards the end. All the X25 trips came from Manhattan Bound X29 trips.

[checkmatechamp13]

However if you were to restore the X25 route somehow, that's the only thing that is feasible. MTA is not bringing the X29, like B35 said, they made the route bastardized towards the end. All the X25 trips came from Manhattan Bound X29 trips.

 

I thought you were referring to making deadheading BM3 trips into X29s, not X25s. If that's the case, then it would be good, but for the near future, you're not going to get the unions to agree to it.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I thought you were referring to making deadheading BM3 trips into X29s, not X25s. If that's the case, then it would be good, but for the near future, you're not going to get the unions to agree to it.

Alright

 

I know that the different unions mess is a problem fir the MTA not making several service changes. I dont know what much can be done of it.

[qjtransitmaster]

well a better way would be to reroute BM4 to CI ave and have BM4 use ave T to reach gerritsen ave to gerritsen beach. Nostrand ave is near BM1 and ocean ave and K have BM1 & 3 let the 4 get a new ridership base in addition to it's own who knows ridership can increase enough to warrent more service with a wait and see method. The clearance on ave T is 12 feet more than enough to accomidate express buses. BM4 will gain 2 ridership bases and may replace most of the former X29's ridership base. However those folks most likely gotten used to the to the point where they probably don't even miss the X29 much that can pose a problem. This way the union issue is null and void cause instead of an outright restoration or merger with DHs it's simplya reroute MTA can use streamlining as an excuse to bypass the union BS. X25 is a lost cause the only way to restore it is to modify QM 3rd ave service to cover it's route path with chambers construction forget it.

 

With Neptune av , the funniest complaint I have heard is that the station is "too far away"...

I don't care for the locale of that station either, but the distance argument I'm not buying.....

 

Many might not know this, but West 8th st is largely used as a transfer station.... I crack up at the people that get off the Stillwell bound at West 8th because the train is taking too long to move for their tastes... So what they'll do is either exit the station & catch the CI bound B36 on street level, or go run downstairs & wait for/catch the F..... Don't know what the stats are or w/e, but West 8th has very few "unique" riders using that station..... Even though the renovation look(ed) nice, a part of me kinda thinks it was all for naught for that reason.... You're right, to this day it does have somewhat of a sketchy feel to it.... It's also a PITA to walk up all those stairs or use that ramp to get in/out of the station.....

 

The x29.... When I first started taking that route, even I was surprised how little usage it got down by the trump towers & the warbasse houses.... [Ocean pkwy/neptune] & [the stop along west 5th] were the only 2 stops that saw (the little) usage it got..... Nobody would get off at the terminal (stillwell/surf) itself, and that makes sense when you think about it....

I am not surprised it was barely used there as those people probably opted for the faster X28/38 or Brighton express.