Train operator signal test

[INDman]

Rail Control Center: "What was the color of the last signal you passed?"

You: "...uhhh..."

Sounds like a dispatcher who never saw the inside of a cab.... Part of the problem, supervising tittles that you have never worked. 

[SubwayGuy]

But is the statement factual? Since I haven't been keeping up with schoolcar I have a question. Are conductors required to pass a signals test these days? Back in those ancient days when I was a C/R we had to pass the same test M/M had to pass. Back when "the trains were wood and the men were iron" was the mantra. Remember that one of the duties of a C/R was to flag a train from the head end so a C/R had to know signals. Unfortunately, when I left there were some T/Os and TSSs around whom I trusted less than my C/R to flag me. It got so bad that they weren't allowing any non-supervisor to flag a train which sometimes created a longer delay while the crew waited for a supervisor to arrive. How are things today?

 

C/R's are not required to get 100% on a signals exam, although signals questions do appear on their quizzes, midterms, and finals (and they do have a signal quiz they must score 80% on, but a failure leads to additional tutoring and a black mark on the employee's schoolcar record...not an automatic termination/demotion).

 

C/R's are qualified to flag trains in schoolcar, but rarely if ever will do so on the road since RCC will just about always send a TSS to respond when other than head end is required, and instruct the train not to move in the meantime.

Now maybe some people can see what I was getting at when I asked about the C/R's signal test. We were given the same rule book signal exam that M/M were given. We had the same instructors. There was only one class of M/M or C/Rs breaking in at a time in each division. The big difference was that IRT M/M and C/Rs had to learn IRT signals, too. The reason we all took the same signals test because every position in RTO, from entry level C/R to the top dog, T/M, had signals on all of the promotional exams. My M/M class was basically the same people who were in my C/R class and we had the same instructors. Imagine being taught about a door malfunction when the motor instructor suddenly turns to you to explain a "call-on" signal. Now imagine a M/M or C/R screwing up the answer and the instructor throws an eraser (if you're lucky) or a brake handle in your direction because you didn't know the most important part of RTO. R32, R62, R160, is for railfans and I don't knock them. There are people on these forums who can tell you who made the traction motors, braking system, door controls or what have you. As my rabbi taught us through my career the most important part of RTO is the signal system. If you work in RTO, in any capacity, and don't know signals it meant you don't know your job. As Snowblock and a few others have pointed out something as simple as two buzzes from C/R to T/O is a signal. Rant and history lesson over. Carry on.

 

I agree with this as well, training was definitely more intensive years ago from EVERYONE I have talked to down here that went through it.

 

To be honest, signals are important as you said, and I agree 100%...but that's one of the best changes schoolcar could make - focus on learning physical characteristics of the railroad as part of training as well - but by memory. Railroads make employees take variations of a physical characteristics exam - transit could benefit from this as well. It would be more helpful than say, the 3 months in the yard. Multiple questions like "what is the posted speed restriction entering Grand Central on 2 track?" could be fair game for T/O quizzes in this fashion requiring 80% to pass.

 

Old IRT signals are only covered for T/O's now, not C/R's. Basically because they can't spend enough time on signals with C/R's (since C/R training is so short compared to T/O), so they don't want to confuse them since it's likely they'll mix up the standard aspects with the IRT ones.

[FriedChikkin]

Sounds like a dispatcher who never saw the inside of a cab.... Part of the problem, supervising tittles that you have never worked. 

I agree. God only knows what situation we're going to meet any day but if something happens I pray the responding supervisor has sat in my seat and he's out to help rather than hang. I try to remember to take my time and try to remember what MTA Rules could be hypothetically be used against me given any particular situation... I've heard people hang themselves because they break to RCC's pressure to answer the radio rather than gathering their thoughts and formulating what they should say... heck, it happened just the other day... and it was one of those situations where RCC said; "We didn't quite hear that... would you mind repeating the reason again?" There's a chance to re-word your statement and untie the noose! lol

 

To which the Train Operator, again, stated; "I was late getting on my train in the yard..."

To which I would have said; "I needed more time for my put-in in the yard, sorry..."

 

His rush to answer might have set off an investigation. Did someone call the yard dispatcher to ask what happened? Was he late reporting? Was he on time but had to use the bathroom? Will the dispatcher's story and his match up? Why wasn't his time cut? Did he just get himself and the dispatcher in trouble?

[SubwayGuy]

I agree. God only knows what situation we're going to meet any day but if something happens I pray the responding supervisor has sat in my seat and he's out to help rather than hang. I try to remember to take my time and try to remember what MTA Rules could be hypothetically be used against me given any particular situation... I've heard people hang themselves because they break to RCC's pressure to answer the radio rather than gathering their thoughts and formulating what they should say... heck, it happened just the other day... and it was one of those situations where RCC said; "We didn't quite hear that... would you mind repeating the reason again?" There's a chance to re-word your statement and untie the noose! lol

 

To which the Train Operator, again, stated; "I was late getting on my train in the yard..."

To which I would have said; "I needed more time for my put-in in the yard, sorry..."

 

His rush to answer might have set off an investigation. Did someone call the yard dispatcher to ask what happened? Was he late reporting? Was he on time but had to use the bathroom? Will the dispatcher's story and his match up? Why wasn't his time cut? Did he just get himself and the dispatcher in trouble?

 

Or what about the train that hit a signal on 2 track Lexington Ave. a few weeks back, was asked if the cause was available, had recharged without checking the TOD, and begun a full investigation? When the TSS and RCI showed up the history indicated "trip cock activation first car", now that whole delay fell onto the T/O.

 

One thing that drives me nuts down here though is people's reluctance to call in flashing signals. They're scared they're going to get themselves in trouble, but the wording is the key part. "I'm reporting that signal XXXX flashed as I approached. I did not come into contact with the signal, I operated safely into [next station] / stopped in advance of the signal to give you the number, I'm just reporting that the signal is not working as designed."

 

I called one in once...it cleared, flashed, and cleared again...then my leader gets on the radio, "Control, yeah, the signal did the same thing for me too."...then why the hell didn't you call it in? By calling in B/O signals we protect each other. If the first train ignores it, and the second train trips, now the second train is on his own with saying the signal flashed. And of course if the first train THEN takes the opportunity to report the signal flashed for him too, the first question is going to be mine..."then why the hell didn't you call it in?"

[RTOPRO]

^^^^^^EXCELLENT^^^^^^^

[RTOMan]

Or what about the train that hit a signal on 2 track Lexington Ave. a few weeks back, was asked if the cause was available, had recharged without checking the TOD, and begun a full investigation? When the TSS and RCI showed up the history indicated "trip cock activation first car", now that whole delay fell onto the T/O.

 

One thing that drives me nuts down here though is people's reluctance to call in flashing signals. They're scared they're going to get themselves in trouble, but the wording is the key part. "I'm reporting that signal XXXX flashed as I approached. I did not come into contact with the signal, I operated safely into [next station] / stopped in advance of the signal to give you the number, I'm just reporting that the signal is not working as designed."

 

I called one in once...it cleared, flashed, and cleared again...then my leader gets on the radio, "Control, yeah, the signal did the same thing for me too."...then why the hell didn't you call it in? By calling in B/O signals we protect each other. If the first train ignores it, and the second train trips, now the second train is on his own with saying the signal flashed. And of course if the first train THEN takes the opportunity to report the signal flashed for him too, the first question is going to be mine..."then why the hell didn't you call it in?"

 

 Very Informative and Excellent Post! I see the Reports cats down here not knowing what to say on the radio.. NEW train operators and Ones with TIME.... I put those two words in Caps to get my point across...

[mediccjh]

Or what about the train that hit a signal on 2 track Lexington Ave. a few weeks back, was asked if the cause was available, had recharged without checking the TOD, and begun a full investigation? When the TSS and RCI showed up the history indicated "trip cock activation first car", now that whole delay fell onto the T/O.

 

One thing that drives me nuts down here though is people's reluctance to call in flashing signals. They're scared they're going to get themselves in trouble, but the wording is the key part. "I'm reporting that signal XXXX flashed as I approached. I did not come into contact with the signal, I operated safely into [next station] / stopped in advance of the signal to give you the number, I'm just reporting that the signal is not working as designed."

 

I called one in once...it cleared, flashed, and cleared again...then my leader gets on the radio, "Control, yeah, the signal did the same thing for me too."...then why the hell didn't you call it in? By calling in B/O signals we protect each other. If the first train ignores it, and the second train trips, now the second train is on his own with saying the signal flashed. And of course if the first train THEN takes the opportunity to report the signal flashed for him too, the first question is going to be mine..."then why the hell didn't you call it in?"

 

 

As an aside, I had a signal flash on me Friday night as I was barreling down the 4 Av Express. F3 432. It was green, went right to red, I applied the brake as I said 'Oh SHIT', and no chow (how I didn't go BIE, I don't know). I got on the radio immediately. RCC didn't answer after three tries, I contacted Murphy, then RCC answered. I spoke calmly, clearly, and in my Paramedic Authoritative Voice, basically answering all of their questions before they asked them. I told them who I was, where I was, what happened, that I didn't go BIE, and my Operating Motor. Only question they had to ask was, "Did the signal go back to green?"

[Snowblock]

The home signal approaching 205 St N/B on C1 has been flashing lately, and NEARLY tripped my train tonight (would have been my very last stop before my weekend started too!) Watch out if you're going over the top there!