news Nassau County Budget Proposal Underfunds NICE Bus Once Again

[Joel Up Front]

Doesn't matter to me. NICE still rocks.

 

I wouldn't say public transit in the largest worst case of sprawl in the US "rocks."

[Turbo19]

Could be service drops, crowded b uses, unreliable and late. Could it be that people went out and got cars. could  the foreclosures and housing bubble have caused a drop in ridership also?

Most likely than not a combination of factors based on individual demands.

 

I'm sure there is a segment of people that still resides in Nassau County and is dependent on public transit yet opts to rely on MTA services. Likewise there is a segment of people that opted to operate their personal vehicle rather than rely on NICE.

 

And yes, I'm sure there is a percentage of people that left Nassau altogether as a result on many other sub factors.

[qjtransitmaster]

I wouldn't say public transit in the largest worst case of sprawl in the US "rocks."

Ok mister if they got better funds what would you do?

[Vistausss]

@Joel: You're entitled to your opinion and so am I. Maybe "rocks" was a bit of an overstatement but IMHO they're still doing a great job.

 

And like I said before: it's not all perfect here either. Some public transport stuff is better in the USA, some is better in Europe. You can complain all you want but the grass isn't greener per se at the other side of the pond.

[N6 Limited]

I wouldn't say public transit in the largest worst case of sprawl in the US "rocks."

The worst case of sprawl in the US is certainly not Long Island, lol

[PinePower]

So what are everyone's opinions on ridership in 2012 being the lowest its ever been since 1998 and then getting 5 percent lower than that this past July?

 

I'm sure a big chunk of that were n27 riders. The weekend shuttles to nowhere are usually no more than 20% full, or often just carry a few people, this was a route that when operated it's full length to Hempstead on weekends was averaging 75% full or more. Many of those teens & ppl in and around Glen Cove that used to take the n27 to work or shop at the mall on weekends now drive or get rides with their parents.

Not sure why NICE is so stubborn about restoring this route. For the most part except for the n4,n6,n15,n20,n22,n24,etc the buses do seem emptier. The loss of riders may also be un-related to NICE's changes, and be more economic. But in the case of the n27 it purely was not. I also think the n35 has seem a loss of riders due to running less frequent buses during the day, only hourly middays & generally 30 mins rush hour/saturdays, whereas the MTA ran them every 20-30 minutes.

Looking at other transportation systems on Long Island, the drop in riders doesn't seem to be happening. LIRR seems just as crowded, if not more crowded, esp Off-Peak. Suffolk Transit has seen more riders on some routes like the S58, which is now starting to see S66 style crowding with most going between Riverhead, Coram, and Smith Haven (possibly to transfer to other routes, many ask for the 3D).

As far as what NICE has to do to get riders back, they are trying, but they've overlooked some things such as the n27. Lets take the n36 which I'm sure carries air on Saturdays, and the midday n51s. Those changes could've been made to get funds for n27 restoration on weekends. They could just run it between RF and Glen Cove, all you need is 2 buses, only one more bus than what they use now.

For whatever reason, they refuse to do anything. I hate to play devil's advocate but it does make you wonder if there's political reasons behind it (Suozzi's from Glen Cove, Mangano from Bethpage-where no cuts were made).

[Hound]

Doesn't matter to me. NICE still rocks.

NICE sucks.

[Vistausss]

@Pinepower: I think they won't restore the n27 on weekends because with the limited budget they have they're putting the focus on areas that they think need it. So as long as people from Glen Cove don't speak and show NICE there's demand they're not gonna restore it.

 

I don't really see why SCT is getting more passengers. Over at the LIRR subforum people literally screamed at me how awful road conditions and infrastructure are in SC, up to the point that it becomes very dangerous to walk to a bus stop.

[PinePower]

@Pinepower: I think they won't restore the n27 on weekends because with the limited budget they have they're putting the focus on areas that they think need it. So as long as people from Glen Cove don't speak and show NICE there's demand they're not gonna restore it.

 

I don't really see why SCT is getting more passengers. Over at the LIRR subforum people literally screamed at me how awful road conditions and infrastructure are in SC, up to the point that it becomes very dangerous to walk to a bus stop.

 

Thats the problem with the n27 riders, they dont complain and just sit there another hour if they miss their connection. That could be a reason too, and why the biggest increases in service occurred where riders are more vocal, esp NCC students.

I said SOME routes at SCT had ridership increases, like the S58. And I'm thinking it's actually economic, more ppl going to DSS at Coram & Riverhead. The S62 OTOH seems less crowded than usual. For the 2nd time in a row, I was the only one on it going to Riverhead in the early afternoon.

For now I think NICE needs to just get things stabilized, no major changes, so riders can feel comfortable taking the service. When they shook things up April 2012 that caused a large loss in riders, so they need to keep things stable, so ridership can build back. Higher LIRR fares have actually drawn more to the n22 & n24 from the neighboring communities such as NHP, Floral Park & Herricks.

[N6 Limited]

 

Let's break down the ridership loss. According to 2011 statistics from the , Long Island Bus had roughly 102,000 daily riders on weekdays (101,981). There was a 3.7 percent drop in 2012 according to the TSTC, meaning there was about a drop in 3800 riders (3774), making average ridership about 98,200 (98,207). This year, according to this article, there is approximately a 5 percent drop from the 2012 ridership, dropping it from about 98,200 to about 93,300 (93,206). So since the left, we've lost about 8,700 daily riders.

Being that I was on a N6 with like 65 people on it this evening, I can see why...

[Vistausss]

@Brett: Cabs? Summer?

*cough*

 

Summer service != regular out-of-summer service

 

Apples to oranges.

[PinePower]

Some of the loss may have been from the n27 riders (at this point, NICE just needs to admit their mistake and extend it 7 days a week to RF), but majority of the loss probably came from the major lines. Last time I was on NICE (sometime this summer), I noticed a lot of people taking cabs as alternatives from several LIRR stations. The n6 probably lost ridership because of the express issues and any routes where people see a hassle in taking the bus. Maybe the n20 took some losses because of the packing issues in PM rush hours going to Flushing? I don't know because NICE doesn't release ridership information for some reason. The news has to tell us.

 

Let's break down the ridership loss. According to 2011 statistics from the , Long Island Bus had roughly 102,000 daily riders on weekdays (101,981). There was a 3.7 percent drop in 2012 according to the TSTC, meaning there was about a drop in 3800 riders (3774), making average ridership about 98,200 (98,207). This year, according to this article, there is approximately a 5 percent drop from the 2012 ridership, dropping it from about 98,200 to about 93,300 (93,206). So since the left, we've lost about 8,700 daily riders.

 

I remember NICE talking about ridership drops at the last meeting I attended. They blamed the fare hike, which is BS, since I dont think MTA services saw a drop in ridership like that. Alot of choice riders are choosing other options, heck, as of late I see more and more ppl get rides from the Merrick train station, instead of taking the n51. One woman told me the last bus never showed last week. Its stuff like this that scares riders way. They need RELIABLE service. But Veolia's doing their best with the budget given to them. I blame Nassau County for the ridership drop. Had they kept the funding at 9 million, Veolia probably would not have had to cut anything. I'd be curious to see how Tom Suozzi would address this, but so far, he's been strangely silent.

Cabs are only an alternative for those who can afford it, but its bad to lose those riders. I'd like to see what NICE can do with a higher county subsidy, say, the former 9 Million.....

[Vistausss]

I agree with PinePower on the funding argument. I wanna see what NICE can improve with 9 million as funding.

[Astoria Line]

Three words.

 

GET. MANGANO. OUT.

[PinePower]

This was recently in Newsday:

 

 

 

I wonder what Suozzi is thinking of doing if he wins this election. Mangano couldn't even be bothered to say anything himself on the public transportation topic. Gee, what a surprise.

 

Is there a debate? If there is I'd hope that the question would be asked. The problem I have is that when Suozzi was in power, he shortchanged the too, and I remember times when the threatened cuts because of Nassau's paltry contribution, and my concerns falling on deaf ears in the Democrat-led Legislature and Suozzi. Remember Judy Jacobs? She could care less about bus riders. I believe they're only pandering for votes. I dont see them riding the buses or talking to riders (except for Solanges). I'm disgusted by Mangano's even more paltry budget for the buses, its disgraceful, but I'm not too confident Suozzi would do any better.

His statement was vaugue. If he truly gave a damn, he'd say he'd restore the funding to $9 Million. I'm sure NICE would be able to restore all the cut services with that and then some!

[Hound]

I remember NICE talking about ridership drops at the last meeting I attended. They blamed the fare hike, which is BS, since I dont think MTA services saw a drop in ridership like that. Alot of choice riders are choosing other options, heck, as of late I see more and more ppl get rides from the Merrick train station, instead of taking the n51. One woman told me the last bus never showed last week. Its stuff like this that scares riders way. They need RELIABLE service. But Veolia's doing their best with the budget given to them. I blame Nassau County for the ridership drop. Had they kept the funding at 9 million, Veolia probably would not have had to cut anything. I'd be curious to see how Tom Suozzi would address this, but so far, he's been strangely silent.

Cabs are only an alternative for those who can afford it, but its bad to lose those riders. I'd like to see what NICE can do with a higher county subsidy, say, the former 9 Million.....

Forget about reliability with NICE. They have so many interlined runs that are impossible to do. For example: One has a driver doing a N22 leaving Jamaica at 3:00pm due in Hicksville at 4:20pm, which is always late. He then deadheads to Newsday in Melville for a 4:20pm trip! 20 min. to deadhead from Hicksville at that time of the day? This is typical of NICE's unrealistic scheduling, esp. with lots of new inexperienced drivers, & management that know little about Long Island.

[Vistausss]

@Brett: First thing Suozzi will do: ask NICE to cut service in Bethpage to annoy Mangano (just like Mangano annoyed Suozzi by letting NICE cut service in Glen Cove) lol.

 

@Hound: That isn't NICE's fault, that is Transdev's fault. They did the same thing over here, although it's of less impact given that my city only has segregated bus alnes. But they're doing some impossible things here too since they took over. Some for the better, some for the worse.

[N6 Limited]

This was recently in Newsday:

 

 

 

I wonder what Suozzi is thinking of doing if he wins this election. Mangano couldn't even be bothered to say anything himself on the public transportation topic. Gee, what a surprise.

He's going to do as little as possible to stay in office. If they need more funding, he'll increase funding by $100,000 and call it a day.

[Vistausss]

@Brett: You didn't notice the 'lol' at the end of my sentence? I was just joking. In fact, the joke about Mangano cutting service in Glen Cove was brought up only days ago and I just extended the joke a bit. 'lol' means 'laughing out loud', FYI.

[Vistausss]

I'm not trying to be funny, (in fact, I never try to be funny aside from a little joke every now and then). I'm just pointing out that you were reacting way too seriously on a little joke I made. But let's not derail the topic over this.

[Vistausss]

Whatever.

 

OT: Is there any other candidates beside Mangano and Suozzi? If so, what are their opinions on public transportation?

[N6 Limited]

 

So you're not even going to give Suozzi a shot?

Nope, he was already in office and did absolutely nothing but raise taxes and give himself and his cronies raises. Then the Governor placed him on a New York State Commission for Property Tax relief and all they come up with was a 4% property tax cap. Suozzi will not get a vote from me.

[PinePower]

Whatever.

 

OT: Is there any other candidates beside Mangano and Suozzi? If so, what are their opinions on public transportation?

 

Not sure, and still wonder if they'll even be a debate. But after what I saw today, I've changed my mind on who I'm voting for. Nassau needs more money put into the bus budget and Mangano won't provide it, so he aint getting my vote. It's as simple as that.

Forget about reliability with NICE. They have so many interlined runs that are impossible to do. For example: One has a driver doing a N22 leaving Jamaica at 3:00pm due in Hicksville at 4:20pm, which is always late. He then deadheads to Newsday in Melville for a 4:20pm trip! 20 min. to deadhead from Hicksville at that time of the day? This is typical of NICE's unrealistic scheduling, esp. with lots of new inexperienced drivers, & management that know little about Long Island.

 

Yup its why things are so unreliable. It just doesn't work, not here anyway. Its why riders are leaving, they can't even depend on the service to get to work or school on time. That is indeed crazy scheduling!!! A driver I know told me there's hardly any drivers on the same route with straight runs anymore, generally they just do one round trip on each then interline or DHD to another route..CRAZY!   

[Burrstone]

yes & there is more questions than answers....it said NYS tried to.....It seem ambigious to me

 

All I hear is the same as Nassau/Mangano "can't" but Mangano is getting the brunt of it here.  Not defending Mangano...

 

Is anyone sure the agreement wasn't for Nassau to keep funding at the same level throughout the original 5 years? 

 

So what are everyone's opinions on ridership in 2012 being the lowest its ever been since 1998 and then getting 5 percent lower than that this past July?

 

I for one don't trust any of MTA's data...  ...and a drop of ridership can be from anything, a poor economy (ie people not going to work), people moving out of such an expensive and car centric area,no discretionary income to ride the bus to the mall etc., poor seniors/SSI riders who now rely on neighbors/friends/family members to get where they need to go instead of spending a good chunk on transportation.

 

I have a hard time swallowing the theory that such a dramatic drop in ridership is because "NICE sucks."  A majority of people who rely on NICE live below the poverty level and are not riding buses for fun (present company excluded  ).  Are these people fed up and taking trains, cabs, buying cars because "NICE sucks?"  It's not realistic.

Doesn't matter to me. NICE still rocks.

 

HAHA Veolia Defense Squad! 

[N6 Limited]

 

Yup its why things are so unreliable. It just doesn't work, not here anyway. Its why riders are leaving, they can't even depend on the service to get to work or school on time. That is indeed crazy scheduling!!! A driver I know told me there's hardly any drivers on the same route with straight runs anymore, generally they just do one round trip on each then interline or DHD to another route..CRAZY!   

 That is explains why drivers hardly know their routes anymore.

 

Do any routes interline in Jamaica? That would be Interesting.